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| India-Pakistan |
| Pakistan order to kill US invaders |
| 2008-09-14 |
| Key corps commanders of Pakistan's 600,000-strong army issued orders last night to retaliate against "invading" US forces that enter the country to attack militant targets. The move has plunged relations between Islamabad and Washington into deep crisis over how to deal with al-Qa'ida and the Taliban What amounts to a dramatic order to "kill the invaders", as one senior officer put it last night, was disclosed after the commanders - who control the army's deployments at divisional level - met at their headquarters in the garrison city of Rawalpindi under the chairmanship of army chief and former ISI spy agency boss Ashfaq Kayani. Leading English-language newspaper The News warned in an editorial that the US determination to attack targets inside Pakistan was likely to be "the best recruiting sergeant that the extremists ever had", with even "moderates" outraged by it. The "retaliate and kill" order came amid reports of unprecedentedly fierce fighting in the Bajaur Agency of Pakistan's tribal areas, an al-Qa'ida stronghold frequently mentioned as the most likely lair of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. At the same time, a series of brutal killings by the militants were reported. The beheaded bodies of two of nearly 40 police recruits abducted a week ago were found near the town of Hangu. Their discovery follows warnings that the recruits would be put to death, one by one, unless Pakistan stopped its big offensive in Bajaur. The bodies of three local Bajaur men who had been shot in the neck were also found yesterday. Notes were attached declaring the men to have been spies. In a day of what appears to have been unrelenting combat in Bajaur, helicopter gunships, heavy artillery and tanks were used to strike al-Qa'ida targets. Officials said at least 100 militants had been killed, bringing the number who have died in the six weeks since the offensive was launched to well over 700. The figure is regarded as remarkable, given that NATO forces in Afghanistan seldom achieve a "kill" rate of more than about 30 in any single operation. Many of those killed are reported to have been "foreign fighters" - mostly Arabs and Central Asians, who have been flooding into Pakistan's tribal areas to join al-Qa'ida and the Taliban. Ground troops are said to have moved into key areas formerly controlled by the militants, despite a promised ceasefire marking the holy month of Ramadan. "We launched strikes against militant hideouts in Bajaur and destroyed several compounds they were using," an official was quoted as saying. The order to retaliate against incursions by "foreign troops", directed specifically at the 120,000 Pakistani soldiers deployed along the border with Afghanistan, follows US President George W. Bush's authorisation of US attacks in Pakistan. Washington's determination to launch such attacks has caused outrage across Pakistan, with Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani last night strongly backing a warning by General Kayani that Pakistan would not allow its territorial integrity to be violated. The "kill" order against invading forces, and the sharp deterioration in relations with the US, has far-reaching implications for the war on terror. Anger at all levels in Pakistani society was summed up last night in The News, not normally sympathetic to the militants. "There is an escalating sense of furious impotence among the ordinary people of Pakistan," the newspaper said. "Many - perhaps most - of them are strongly opposed to the spread of Talibanisation and extremist influence across the country: people who might be described as 'moderates'. "Many of them have no sympathy for the mullahs and their burning of girls' schools and their medieval mindset. "But if you bomb a moderate sensibility often enough, it has a tendency to lose its sense of objectivity and to feel driven in the direction of extremism. "If America bombs moderate sensibilities often enough, you may find that its actions are the best recruiting sergeant that the extremists ever had." |
| Posted by:john frum |
| #25 "We were shooting at the Americans, but the Taliban and al-Qaeda were in the way. They all died in the process, but we drove off the Americans who were "driven off" after all the Taliban and al-Qaeda were dead. We are victorious!" Sounds like Tales from the Crossfire Gazette. We'll just have to wait and see if it works out that well. But, speaking of crossfires, how about Pakistan between India and the US? |
| Posted by: Abu Uluque 2008-09-14 18:01 |
| #24 Oh come on, OS, you know the Hague convention isn't sharia and thus doesn't apply! |
| Posted by: Darrell 2008-09-14 16:56 |
| #23 SOmeone in the Pak government isn't thinking this out fully... |
| Posted by: BigEd 2008-09-14 16:40 |
| #22 The other thing that needs to be done is for Bush to call the Pakistani Ambassador on the carpet, and give him a lecture on the Hague convention. Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents. Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles ... 4 to occur on its territory Pakistan is ceding its sovereignty when it supports combatants that cross over into other nations and fight there. Bush needs to lay doewn the law, and trheaten them with dismemberment of the Pakistan nation if they do not remedy their failures that allow recruitment and supply of belligerents and illegal combatants in Afghanistan and India. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-09-14 15:45 |
| #21 "under the chairmanship of army chief and former ISI spy agency boss Ashfaq Kayani" Been telling you guys here for years the ISI is a cancer that must be excised. The CIA *must* start shedding senior and mid-level ISI blood, copiously. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-09-14 15:36 |
| #20 Jihadi groups in Pakistan raise money openly. They collect outside mosques, shopping centers etc. It is estimated that more than 80 percent of Pakistanis contribute to the cause |
| Posted by: john frum 2008-09-14 13:26 |
| #19 "There is an escalating sense of furious impotence among the ordinary people of Pakistan," who exactly are the ordinary people? geez |
| Posted by: Jan at work 2008-09-14 13:12 |
| #18 Glenmore: no, it is a lot worse. To an American, it is like bizarro world, where everything is the opposite of the truth. To make matters worse, it is done almost automatically, for no reason. If you ask a man with a watch what time it is, he will lie. A weird example was in Afghanistan, when after a battle, it was traditional to lie and exaggerate how many enemy were killed. Americans perplexed and fascinated the Afghans by intentionally under-counting enemy killed. The Afghans knew the Americans were also lying, buy were hypnotized as to *why* they would lie that way, instead of bragging. (It is done to encourage the enemy to overestimate their resources in the field.) Once the Afghans figured it out, they were very impressed by the Americans, and started lying the same way, under-counting enemy dead, which is just playing havoc with the Taliban command. However, the one thing the Afghans would never do is give an *accurate* account of enemy dead, because there is no way anyone could ever justify that to them. The British Empire tried to insist on truth telling, and the Afghans just thought they were crazy. In that part of the world, only a crazy person would tell the truth. To anyone, about anything. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2008-09-14 10:42 |
| #17 It is a matter of principle in the entire region to never, ever tell the truth when you can lie. Like politics everywhere. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2008-09-14 09:06 |
| #16 Words, just words. For domestic consumption only. Remember Kayani was the guy Mullen entertained on the carrier. If this were for export, I'd suspect we'd be replying. But we just keep on doing. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2008-09-14 09:03 |
| #15 Everybody remember that every-thing said in the region is always, consistently, lies. It is a matter of principle in the entire region to never, ever tell the truth when you can lie. Now that being said, look beyond what was said. Areas of Pakistan are off limits to the Pak army, by all sorts of agreements and treaties. This creates safe havens for the scoundrels, that they use accordingly. For the Pak army to enter to fight these scum would "break the rules". Unless, the Pak army entered *not* to fight the scum, but to "fight Americans". Then it would be A-OK. But it would also put the scum between hammer and anvil. "We were shooting at the Americans, but the Taliban and al-Qaeda were in the way. They all died in the process, but we drove off the Americans who were "driven off" after all the Taliban and al-Qaeda were dead. We are victorious!" Uh-huh. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2008-09-14 09:02 |
| #14 It doesn't seem like Pakistan is actually quite as anti-American as this order would make them sound. It only applies to units in the vicinity of an incursion against the units making the incursion. Given the current Pakistani force status and US mission style this is unlikely to matter at all. If this was more than just politics for internal consumption they would stop convoys and cancel overflight permission. Still, maybe we could learn something and try this approach on our Mexican border (against drug gangs and Mexican army - but I repeat myself.) |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2008-09-14 08:57 |
| #13 Vote for McCain/Palin then. Mac has proposed a thoughtful job training & industry seeding effort to better adjust our economy for the 21st century. Among other areas, he's focusing on new energy sources and technologies. Given that that will change geopolitical and domestic political power relationships a good deal, the economics of the entrenched set are sure to change ... albeit perhaps not in the direction you'd prefer. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-09-14 08:32 |
| #12 I've noticed you guys are a bit trigger happy. My folks need a little OJT. C'mon, help a guy out. Training budgets aren't what they used to be since the price of oil fell below $100. |
| Posted by: Your supervisor 2008-09-14 08:08 |
| #11 Use one 'nym, Freedom/PeaceSqueaks.  We welcome vigorous debate here, cherish well honed snark and ban tendentious trolls when we get tired of them.  Which lately tends to be pretty soon after they appear. -- The Mods |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-09-14 07:47 |
| #10 Give them another couple of billion dollars. We respect the borders of sovereign countries. |
| Posted by: Freedom Squeaks 2008-09-14 06:29 |
| #9 It does look like the Pak army has stepped up the pace a bit - at least according to the article. |
| Posted by: Bobby 2008-09-14 06:21 |
| #8 I'm a little more cynical. It's possibly a ruse to let Pakistan get more troops into pro-taliban areas. |
| Posted by: Bright Pebbles 2008-09-14 05:29 |
| #7 Pakistan order to |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2008-09-14 04:59 |
| #6 US Order To Kill Pakistan al-Qa'ida and Taliban. that's the real headline. |
| Posted by: Betty Grating2215 2008-09-14 02:43 |
| #5 Oh yeah, kill the US invaders. This is such a colossaly bad idea it could only come from a place like Pakistan. |
| Posted by: SteveS 2008-09-14 01:32 |
| #4 That Pakistan exists is an affront to the civilized world.. That the US government has paid more than $10 billion in direct aid and billions more for sponsoring the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks is an abomination. Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh The Wall Street Journal was one of the only Western news organizations to follow up on the story, citing the Times of India: "US authorities sought General Mahmud Ahmed's removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 was wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of General Mahmud."[3] Another Indian newspaper, the Daily Excelsior, quoting FBI sources, reported that the "FBIÂ’s examination of the hard disk of the cellphone company Omar Sheikh had subscribed to led to the discovery of the "link" between him and the deposed chief of the Pakistani ISI, Mahmud Ahmed. And as the FBI investigators delved deep, sensational reports surfaced with regard to the transfer of 100,000 dollars to Mohammed Atta, one of the kamikaze pilots who flew his Boeing into the World Trade Center. General Mahmud Ahmed, the FBI investigators found, fully knew about the transfer of money to Atta."[4] |
| Posted by: ed 2008-09-14 01:25 |
| #3 Ashfaq Kayani - Why isn't he a hellfire target? |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-09-14 01:10 |
| #2 The "moderates need to start killing these animals so we don't have to. Clean up your own mess and we'll be satisfied, but the mess will be cleaned up, one way or another. |
| Posted by: Sleack Guelph4631 2008-09-14 00:43 |
| #1 We need to secure the nukes, if we can, and let Pak go into the abyss, which they will do, anyway. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2008-09-14 00:26 |