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| What is "Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse"? |
| 2009-06-18 |
| OR How to avoid being banned To: the ladies and gentlemen of Rantburg, including those of you who aren't sure you (or that other guy!) merit the title. For the record, yes you do, as I define those terms. From: trailing wife, speaking as the wielder of the periwinkle Cluebat with its lovely trailing ribbons Subject: How not to get banned, either temporarily or permanently I've noticed a deterioration in the quality of some conversations here recently, which has driven me to the use of stronger-than-usual language and resulted in the banning of several regular posters. Clearly some of you have forgotten, or never knew, what "Civil, Well-Reasoned Discourse" actually is. Here goes: 1. Cussing and picturesque language is ok, suitably asterisked of course, if it helps to make your point. Nastiness is not. If you can't tell the difference, consult a kindergartner or your mother. Or you can ask in the O Club, which is open to all who wish an imaginary drink and real off-topic conversation, and can be accessed from the yellow bar in the right-hand column of the front page. AutoBartender stocks Yuengling beer (I think I spelt that right), two of OldSpook's favourite single malt Scotches (I think one is 12 year old Balmorie, but I'm not good at remembering such things), and makes the best margaritas this side of reality. AB's club soda with lime is pretty good, too. 2. Racist or sexist language is never ok. In fact, any -ist language is not ok. If your mother would object, do not post it. If your mother was prone to make statements that started, "All (blacks/whites/men/women/Mexicans/Gays/Jews/Arabs/whatever) are (your negative attribute here)", you may borrow my mother for the purpose. You do have to give her back afterward, as I'm rather fond of her. If your statement contains a cliched stereotype, do not post it, even if you think the stereotype is true. Again, if you are not sure, ask at the O Club, or don't post it. 3. Advocating assassination of, or harm to, any American citizen is strictly forbidden. It does not matter how justified your dislike may be. For the purpose of this discussion, the term American includes the politicians and citizens of all members of the Coalitions in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is always open season on War On Terror bad guys: one of the moderators is quite willing to spot for you if you have Osama bin Laden in your gunsights. I think I'm more likely to get to shake the hand of the man or woman sending Predator drone missiles toward the guest house of a certain mullah in Quetta, but I'm quite willing to be wrong. 4. Any statement that begins, "I'm probably going to get banned for this" is a bad idea. Your subconscious is very, very smart -- listen to it. If you are sinktrapped, it's because you broke one of these rules and got caught. If you are banned, either temporarily or permanently, it's because you keep breaking the rules, even though warned. In other words, because you stubbornly insist on being stupid. Nym changing will not fool any of the moderators, not even me, because your IP address is visible to their X-ray eyes. Only Fred Pruitt, our host, can un-ban you. You can try e-mailing him about it, and you may persuade him that you are sincere in your promise to reform. But, using someone else's computer to post about how unfair it was that you were banned will just get that person's IP address banned, too. In one particularly egregious case recently, an entire city was banned. No doubt the rest of its inhabitants eagerly await Fred's return to health, cursing the idiot who caused their Rantburg withdrawal symptoms. Thank you. Tea and cookies are being set up as you finish reading this... and of course there is something a little stronger on the sideboard for those who need more than tea. |
| Posted by:trailing wife |
| #28 A Spanish bar is attempting to provide an outlet for uncivil discourse: It's encouraging clients to insult its staff and offering free drinks for original or hilarious abuse..Polish-born bar owner Bernard Mariusz said he thought people needed somewhere to release their frustrations at a time of economic crisis, employing the Spanish language's rich store of earthy obscenities. "That way they won't let it out on their family," he said. |
| Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-06-18 23:39 |
| #27 watch out with those drugs, they got Ryan Leaf and Rush. |
| Posted by: 746 2009-06-18 23:05 |
| #26 Good to see Fred is back!!! Chocolate and ice cold coke, helps when you come down from the drugs! |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2009-06-18 22:15 |
| #25 Didja see Patches in there with ya? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2009-06-18 18:38 |
| #24 I've also turned into a heavy drug user. Hoping for a cabinet position at the WH eh? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2009-06-18 18:23 |
| #23 "I've also turned into a heavy drug user." On the bright side, you probably get some good hallucinations. ;-p Hope it gets better soon. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-18 18:03 |
| #22 I've also turned into a heavy drug user. |
| Posted by: Fred 2009-06-18 17:56 |
| #21 No. I dislocated it last weekend. I've been in the hospital and laid up since. I'm an unhappy boy. |
| Posted by: Fred 2009-06-18 17:55 |
| #20 Good to hear from you, Fred! Hope the hip is doing well. Dancing yet? :-D |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-18 17:50 |
| #19 I gotta' tell ya' TW, as a sometime commenter and frequent reader, I have found the "back and forth" between commenters here to be more civil than some sites I read. Having said that, if at any time I have offended anyone by what I've said; it was not intentional and I apologize. Keep up the good work. |
| Posted by: WolfDog 2009-06-18 17:24 |
| #18 I agree with you to a point, Admiral. I've hated it every time anyone, with the exception of Boris, has been banned, and for precisely the reasons you just gave. If we exclude all argument from the other side we're just chanting, not discussing. But we have to have rules. Personal attacks are one of the rules. We don't allow them. That's why Aris is banned, not for his opinions, which were subject to debate. Another rule is calling for people to be killed (other than those wearing turbans and grimacing in our general direction). That includes Jane Fonda and The Worst President Ever. You can hope out loud that they catch gonorrhea and die, but advocating the expenditure of ammunition puts you in the same category the enemy. That's the way they conduct civil, well-reasoned discourse. That's how funky skunk made the pooplist. Another rule, less well-defined, I think, is trolling, which I define as showing up for the express purpose of firing up flame wars. There have been a few bans I'd not have made, but I'm in kinda sorta objective agreement. Like Zenster. The other stuff should be obvious to reasonably well-mannered people. We're not racists here, and if you are then go someplace else. This isn't a pörn site. Most of us aren't particularly concerned if you like boys (or girls as inappropriate), though I think most of us are against making it mandatory. We don't have time for conspiracy theories. B.O.'s obviously got something to hide with regard to his birth certificate, but you can bet your last piaster that there's not going to come an episode where the last election's overturned because it turns out he's actually Indonesian, Kenyan, or Guatamalan. Things don't work that way. Maybe if he's actually an alien from Arcturus, complete with tentacles and eleven eyes... I don't want to see the site become boring because everybody has the same opinion. At the same time there are some fairly standard standards of good manners, and there are some subjects that cause people to roll their eyes. |
| Posted by: Fred 2009-06-18 17:13 |
#17
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| Posted by: funky skunk 2009-06-18 16:57 |
| #16 If I may, I will skim over the usual paeans to RB & the mods, straight to the criticism. I think that the echo has got louder since the banning of certain characters, such as Aris Katsaris. I rarely agreed with anything that he said; although he was good on facts, his opinions & judgements were invariably bad. Point is, the debate was lively and in depth to the extent that it would seem intimidating to the trolls of the present ilk, who would probably rather watch him be ripped limb from limb by the adults and hopefully learn something (like I did) rather than risk looking like an idiot throwing turds and right-wing-nuttier-than-thou statements into the fray. In the absence of an effective opposition, the debate becomes more of a snarkfest, with people competing over who can be the snarkiest. However I do also recognise that, the fact that RB now represents the political opposition does not help, as the wing nuts are likely to get inflamed by the driveby "bitter-clinger-racist" chants from smug Obammunists. However what you get wrong is still far outweighed by what you get right, so thanks again. My only suggestion would be to actively re-engage on the left. Its the only way to win back power. |
| Posted by: Admiral Allan Ackbar 2009-06-18 16:17 |
| #15 Clearly, my next task is to learn how to add a moderator comments, in glorious highlighter colour, to another's post in a thread. But since I'm still climbing the [very high] learning curve, I'll have to do it the old-fashioned way. It's truly an honour to serve [man] here, JohnQC. ;-) I'm grateful to be given the opportunity by such a wonderful community. no mo uro, happy reading... although I've no memory of what I recommended. Poor, long-suffering TOTUS is not in the no-threats category, CrazyFool, but may yet spontaneously combust from the strain. Old Patriot, I agree some individuals make it very difficult to remain civil, let alone well-reasoned, but you know we only give you a time-out for your own good. You are so much better at it than you used to be, my dear! I've no objection to mocking those who choose to be stupid as they so clearly deserve (eg dear, dear Ms. Fonda and her masculine counterpart, the former president James Earl (Jimmy) Carter -- who I trust is loved by both wife and mother -- or our chew-toy trolls); but, death will come to them soon enough -- there's no need to so much as wish aloud that it be hurried, gorb. Hopefully funky skunk is using this opportunity to reflect on the error of his ways. Willy, nobody could turn a phrase, or a couple of vitriolic paragraphs, like .com. But I'll bet if you go back to his best posts you'll find he accomplished that without breaking Fred's rules -- .com was one of nature's gentlemen as well as a gifted writer. I miss him, too. We are woefully diminished by the absence of those who no longer make Rantburg their other home, even as new voices have come to enrich the conversation. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2009-06-18 15:45 |
| #14 Having been on the recieving end of threats of violence against my family and myself by a couple of former frequent posters here because of, for all things, my views on international labor markets, I can only say that I appreciate a little civility. Let's save our vitriol for those who really deserve it and not eat our own, and what vitriol we have, let's use it wisely where it can have the most effect. Thanks, TW, and BTW your book is next in queue for my reading pleasure. |
| Posted by: no mo uro 2009-06-18 15:04 |
| #13 Thanks TW. |
| Posted by: JohnQC 2009-06-18 14:29 |
| #12 Of course the ban on wishing-anyone-ill also does apply to the POTUS (and TOTUS) of which there may be some questions about his citizenship... |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2009-06-18 13:56 |
| #11 It's one thing to attack people for their personal or political views, and another to call attention to their cerebral failings. Carter and Fonda fall in a category all to themselves. I just like to sit here and dream of all kinds of nasty things to do to people who have no clue to how their views - and frequently actions - harm others. Rantburg is the prime source for my target list. I know I sometimes either come very close to the edge, and occasionally over it, and I've had my hand slapped by several of the mods. I try to remain within reason, but sometimes, I just have to vent. Being banned for a couple of days is serious enough that I hold my tongue in check again until the next extremely stupid event pushes me over the edge again. This being a "cultured barbarian" ain't easy work! |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2009-06-18 13:56 |
| #10 How about Carter or Fonda? Do we get any kind of exception for them? They may be legal citizens by birth, but they really belong somewhere else, even though they don't seem to be willing to move there themselves. Would it be OK to wish a painful natural death upon someone? :-/ |
| Posted by: gorb 2009-06-18 13:26 |
| #9 Thank you all for the work you do to keep Rantburg a forum for all with a topic or question, snipe hunters, and lurkers who who tire of washing diarrhea of the keyboard out their eyes. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2009-06-18 12:15 |
| #8 [funky skunk has been pooplisted.] |
| Posted by: funky skunk 2009-06-18 11:39 |
| #7 I understand all what you say and agree with it, but I still miss Rantburgers like .com. :) |
| Posted by: Willy 2009-06-18 11:00 |
| #6 you can't use a corner of the public library as your private toilet... Obviously TW, you never been to the downtown branch of the Seattle Public Library. just 4 blocks up from world famous Muskatel Meadows. But I digress... Having said that. Thanks for all the Mods of all colors (and cluebat megatonnage) for their efforts. You efforts are what makes Rantburg one of the most decent places I've seen. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2009-06-18 10:52 |
| #5 Cute, Besoeker. And oh, so true! Sadly, it's end users like me who drive them to that attitude. My apologies to all the Help Desk men and women I drove to quiet gibbering over the years. Silentbrick, Gabby, y'all are two of the many delightful people here at Rantburg who have a high probability of never being at the receiving end of a Cluebat. I haven't seen many banned, or even many needing sinktrapping, relative to the number of interesting, educational, and amusingly snarky posts each day. DarthVader, Fred provided these tools precisely because some will insist on their inalienable right to break the house rules, forgetting that a) Rantburg is Fred's private property, and he can close it to the rest of us should we annoy him enough, and b) even public spaces have rules and limits on behaviour, eg. you can't use a corner of the public library as your private toilet, or even as a nice open space to practice football cheers. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2009-06-18 10:03 |
| #4 Leonard: Just thought I'd ring you up and see how your new "help desk" job is coming. Richard: Quite well thank you, but it would be going a damn site better if it were not for these pesky people and their incoming calls! |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2009-06-18 09:10 |
| #3 People still won't get it. I moderate on another site and no matter how clearly you put it, some mouth breathing dolt is always crossing the line. I'm just glad I can vent a little here at Rantburg. Cheaper than therapy, I'll tell ya. ;) That reminds me, time to hit the tipjar. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2009-06-18 07:56 |
| #2 Now I'm scared....I've never seen Trailing Wife use her cluebat, so far her wit has been more than sufficient to slice up any that dare cause her grief. Since we don't know her cluebat's rating in megatons, I suggest all the bad people hang out somewhere far far away from me. I don't want to end up coated in long-pig flavored soot. *tips his hat to TW, then gallantly finds a nice quiet hole, where it's dark and safe to lurk in.* |
| Posted by: Silentbrick 2009-06-18 02:12 |
| #1 TW. And all the mods. Why Rantburg is a class act. I'm proud to mostly lurk. I'll shuddup now. |
| Posted by: Gabby 2009-06-18 00:48 |