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Home Front: WoT
Price of Lockheed's F-35 fighter soars
2010-03-12
WASHINGTON, March 11 (Reuters) - The average cost of Lockheed Martin Corp's (LMT.N) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Pentagon's costliest arms purchase yet, will soar more than 50 percent above what was projected when its development began nine years ago, the Pentagon's top arms buyer told Congress.
We wrote off the F-22 for this?
The U.S. Air Force is set to formally notify Congress that the program has crashed through a key cost-containment threshold that will force a thorough review, Ashton Carter, undersecretary of defense for acquisition, said on Thursday.

But the net impact of such a notification may be minimal since the program is widely said by U.S. officials to be too big to fail. Washington has no other way to replace aging warplanes like Lockheed's F-16 and the program is a linchpin of fighter modernization for several U.S. allies.

The cost blowout has occurred despite a restructuring announced by Defense Secretary Robert Gates in February to keep the program on track, including adding 13 months and $2.8 billion to the development phase.

"The JSF program has fallen short on performance over the past several years," Carter told the Senate Armed Services Committee. He said the Defense Department planned to aggressively manage it over coming years as it goes from development and testing toward full production.

Affordability was supposed to be a hallmark of the F-35, which is being built in three versions for the U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps; eight overseas co-development partners; and other projected foreign buyers.

Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the committee, said the cost growth could have significant implications for the rest of the Pentagon's multibillion-dollar acquisition programs and for its budget as a whole. The United States alone is scheduled to buy more than 2,400 F-35s, the backbone of its air combat fleet for coming decades.

"People should not conclude that we will be willing to continue... strong support without regard to increased costs coming from poor program management or from lack of focus on affordability," the Michigan Democrat said.

Carter said he expected Air Force Secretary Michael Donley to notify Congress of the cost-containment breach formally under a law known as Nunn-McCurdy within days. If unit-cost growth tops 25 percent, Nunn-McCurdy requires the Pentagon to justify continuing the program based on three main criteria: its importance to U.S. national security; the lack of a viable alternative; and evidence that the problems that led to the cost growth are under control.

In 2001, when the development began, the F-35 procurement cost had been projected to be $50.2 million per aircraft in base-year 2002 dollars. Pentagon estimators, based on a projected procurement of 2,443 aircraft, including all variants, now expect the average price to range from $80 million to $95 million in 2002 dollars, said Christine Fox, director of cost assessment and program evaluation for Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The eight U.S. co-development partners are Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway. Israel has begun a process that could lead it to buy 75 F-35s. Singapore is also mulling a purchase, but cost growth could eat into overseas sales, to the benefit of rival fighters from Europe, Russia and China.

Completing development and approving full-rate production is now expected in April 2016, about 2-1/2 years later than planned in the baseline program approved in 2007, congressional auditors told the committee. Carter said initial operational capability was now set for 2012 for the U.S. Marine Corps version and 2016 for the Air Force and Navy models.

Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon's No. 1 supplier by sales, said F-35 production trends showed significant improvement, indicating aircraft deliveries will be back on schedule in 2011. The three most recent aircraft loaded into production tooling are now on schedule, said Jeffery Adams, a company spokesman. "We are committed to delivering our airplanes on time."
Posted by:Steve White

#15  Does the SU30 have supercruise? How about the F35? When these things are used in war, things seem to start out with long-distance attacks. I'll bet doing acrobatics sucks up all kinds of fuel.
Posted by: gorb   2010-03-12 23:01  

#14  Oh, just flush the f-35 back into the tech base. Buy upgraded stealthy f-15s for air-ground missions and the current f-18 for naval missions for the next 20 years.

You, me and the DoD will get a 50% discount over the f-35. In 20 years, when Russia or China actually have a decent plane (S-30 is vaporware demo crap) then we can start spending money on the follow-on to the f-35.
Posted by: rammer   2010-03-12 22:19  

#13  Now the F-35 doesn't have that sort of thrust vectoring... BUT... it does have a basically 360 degree passive optical/IR sensor system, capable of providing missile guidance. Meaning it should be able to lock onto an aircraft behind it.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2010-03-12 18:48  

#12  Beoserker: the guys in that article may be very mistaken. The F-22 does have thrust-vectoring, and is capable of significant post-stall maneuvering well past the point at which any canard would cease to operate.

I've seen the video footage of one doing cartwheels in the air... in a controlled fashion.

(Which, IMHO, is kinda a waste of money, since in order to use all those fancy post-stall maneuvering, in either an F-22 or an SU-27/30/35, you basically have to lose ALL of the energy that's keeping you alive in the dogfight to begin with.)

Anyway, you might want to look at 1:30 through 1:50 in this video.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2010-03-12 18:44  

#11  More planes? All for it, as long as they're worth the price tag. Doesn't sound like the F-22's replacement is worth it.

Can we restart the F-22 production lines and scale back the # of production F-35s?
Posted by: lex   2010-03-12 14:49  

#10  we don't need more planes, we can talk about our problems and find a common ground with our enemies.

/Liberal Dickweed
Posted by: Hupose Hapsburg2632   2010-03-12 14:43  

#9  Do not be fooled. The US$90 millions figure includes all the research, development and set up costs divided by the number of aircraft on the initial contract.

adding 13 months and $2.8 billion to the development phase

Additional aircraft are considerably cheaper than US$90 millions. If you use Congressional math, canceling half the aircraft will come close to doubling the cost per aircraft. That is how the B2 became a billion dollar aircraft.

Once the production line is set up, the cost to produce additional aircraft of the same type and mark is far smaller than the cited "price".

The over runs are on the R&D part of the contract.

These things should be separate items.

The real concern is that we are depending on these aircraft instead of the F-22 in the face of the SU-30MK. The F-22 can take on an aerobatic superior fighter because it is stealthy and the Russian fighter will not detect it before it is detected and targeted. The F-22 has better weapons and electronics. The F-35 does not have those stealth advantages nor many of the electronic advantages, and will be vulnerable.

The US should restart the F-22 production line.
Posted by: Beldar Threreling9726   2010-03-12 08:58  

#8  The SU-30 may be a sweet flying machine but it has a problem.

It can't see an F-22.

The F-22 can see it.

That's all it takes in aerial combat.
Posted by: Steve White   2010-03-12 08:48  

#7  Given the SU30's shape, I doubt it has the stealth capabilities the 22 0r 35 have. Ether way there is no excuse for this kind of cost overrun.
Posted by: Icerigger   2010-03-12 06:34  

#6  Rantburg Aviation Branch:

How does the F-35 stack up against the SU30? Any of the data below accurate?

Link

Russia now has #1 fighter plane in the world... SU-30 Vectored Thrust with Canards...
As you watch this airplane, look at the canards moving along side of, and just below the canopy rail. The "canards" are the small wings forward of the main wings? The smoke and contrails provide a sense of the actual flight path, sometimes in reverse direction.

This video is of an in-flight demonstration flown by the Russian's 30MK fighter aircraft. You will not believe what you are about to see. The fighter can stall from high speed, stopping forward motion in seconds. (full stall).. Then it demonstrates an ability to descend tail first without causing a compressor stall. It can also recover from a flat spin in less than a minute.. These maneuver capabilities don't exist in any other aircraft in the world today.. Take a look at the video with the sound up. This aircraft is of concern to U.S and NATO planners. We don't know which nations will soon be flying the SU-30MK. Hopefully North Korea isn't one of them.

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Note:

Friends worked with advanced aircraft flight control systems and concepts for many years as an extension of stability control and means of control. Canards and vectored thrust were among many concepts examined to extend our fighter aircraft performance. Neither our current or next generation aircraft now poised for funding & production can in any way match the performance of this Russian aircraft, NOW FLYING, in any near combat situation. Somehow the bankrupt Russian aircraft industry has out produced our complex politically tainted aerospace industry with this technology marvel. Scratch any ideas of close in air-to-air combat with this aircraft in the future.
Posted by: Besoeker   2010-03-12 04:11  

#5  Oi vey, oi vey. First it was cars....
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2010-03-12 03:37  

#4  A novel idea is to let the Air force decide, you know? Those idiots who fly planes decide their own death traps. Tell congress to FOAD.
Posted by: newc   2010-03-12 02:13  

#3  The United States alone is scheduled to buy more than 2,400 F-35s


WTF? At $90 million each? I'm all for a strong defense, but could we also have a SMART defense procurement strategy along with it?

There's a [many trillion-dollar] deficit war on, y'know...
Posted by: lex   2010-03-12 01:20  

#2  Noone ever wants to talk about the incremental cost of additional airframes. They always want to include sunk costs because that facilitates their agenda of unilateral disarmament.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2010-03-12 00:15  

#1  Whats the incremental cost per jet? Not the R&D rolled into it, but the actual cost to produce one more of these, now that the R&D is done?


The money is already spent on the R&D and setting up the production lines. Its pretty stupid to cut it off at this point.

And same goes for the F22 - very stupid to cut aircraft off the end of the production run, especially when the Chinese (and somewhat less, the Russians) are gearing up to produce more modern aircraft.

Posted by: OldSpook   2010-03-12 00:11  

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