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| Traditionalist Anglican bishops in secret talks with Vatican | |||
| 2010-05-02 | |||
| In a move likely to raise tensions between the two Churches, a group of Church of England bishops met last week with advisers of Pope Benedict XVI to set in motion steps that would allow priests to convert to Catholicism en masse. They are set to resign their orders in opposition to the introduction of women bishops and to lead an exodus of Anglican clerics to the Catholic Church despite Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, urging them not to leave. It would be the first time for nearly 20 years that large numbers of priests have crossed from the Church of England to Rome, and comes only weeks ahead of a crucial General Synod debate on making women bishops. The Sunday Telegraph has learnt that bishops travelled to the Holy See last week to hold face to face discussions with senior members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the most powerful of the Vatican's departments. The Rt Rev John Broadhurst, the Rt Rev Keith Newton and the Rt Rev Andrew Burnham, the bishops of Fulham, Richborough and Ebbsfleet respectively, are understood to have informed senior Catholic officials that Church of England clergy are keen to defect to Rome.
The Most Rev Vincent Nichols, the Archbishop of Westminster, was unaware of the summit, which is likely to prove embarrassing to the Catholic Church ahead of the Pope's visit to Britain later this year as it will rekindle fears that it is trying to poach Anglican clergy.
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| Posted by:lotp |
| #9 So, if the Anglican church goes back into the Roman fold, does that mean that the Windsors will give up that gigantic portion of their fortune that was originally grabbed from the Catholic Church's holdings in the UK by old 'enry VIII? Hmmm...the Tudors died out with Elizabeth who transferred the franchise to the Stuarts. When the last Stuart of the line died in 1714, the Hanoverian line took over with the 'consent' of Parliament granting them what ever lands or income was derived from the proceedings, which implies that the representative body is the agent to bring that issue up with. [The German 'Hanoverian' became the rechristened 'Windsor' during that little European fratricide that started in 1914.] The British will probably take up the issue when the French who confiscated church lands during the Revolution recognizing the Concordat of 1801, which acknowledged the 'acquisition', was executed under duress. File under Chance:Slim and None |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2010-05-02 20:09 |
| #8 What the role of the Anglican bishops will be is probably what is under discussion. Current policy is that they do not come over as Bishops. The Catholic Bishops must retain responsibility and authority for all the people in their diocese - and the new Anglicans bishops come over as nothing more, in terms of title, than a regular priest. However - and this is where the rules change comes in -- the former Bishops do have additional and delegated authorities and responsibilities for the Anglican parishes (and may be given an honorific of 'Monsignor' per rumors ). Part of the Papal instructions last year is that consideration be given to Anglican Bishops that are coming over with congregations are to be given what amounts to sub-adjudicator status (basically subordinate to the local Bishop, but delegated with his authority when it comes to Anglican parishes) but with a direct line to the metropolitan (the senior Archbishop or Cardinal for the region) for theological matters. In simple terms, they are probably negotiating who gets what position in the new hierarchy for the Anglicans, and which dioceses their congregations will go to. As for the return of the confiscated property? Nice joke. It seems people sue the Catholic Church, and confiscate property, but the reverse isn't permitted. But that does raise the issue of who actually owns these big cathedrals, etc. There may be some HUGE fights where the the Archbishop of Canterbury (Rowan Williams) would rather fight to keep the church buildings and let them stand empty (and probably eventually be turned into nightclubs or mosques), rather than cede them to the congregation and priests who actually use them for worship. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2010-05-02 17:39 |
| #7 I can see why the Catholic bishops in England might object to Anglican bishops coming over as equals -- how are the bishoprics to be divided? Or will the Catholics be required to give way and be transferred elsewhere? |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2010-05-02 15:30 |
| #6 So, if the Anglican church goes back into the Roman fold, does that mean that the Windsors will give up that gigantic portion of their fortune that was originally grabbed from the Catholic Church's holdings in the UK by old 'enry VIII? |
| Posted by: Dash Riprocket 2010-05-02 15:24 |
| #5 There is no "there" there at the core anymore of the Anglican Church; that's why it is dissolving as the US church goes round the bend and continues to shrink (except in conservative parishes), the African Bishops and church stay orthodox, and in England its tearing itself apart trying to please all factions instead of standing on scripture and principles. The Pope last year approved basically the entire normal Anglican liturgy, with a few tweaks, as an extra-ordinary (out of the ordinary) but accepted form of Mass, with the local Bishop's guidance. Same thing goes for conversion of Anglican priests -- this has been allowed for years (its where the Roman Catholic Church gets most of its married priests; and yes the Roman Catholic Church in the US does have married priests with families and children). So the path is easy for individuals, and now it looks like it has become easier for entire congregations. FYI: The only Catholic Bishops not wanting this are the lefty ones -- because as the Anglicans come home to the Roman Church after several centuries, it is the conservative and orthodox priests & congregations that are coming, increasing the orthodox majority. As for the liberal heterodox Catholic Bishops who oppose this? They are more than welcome to go over to the Anglicans and the ArchDruid, and start ignoring scripture and many traditions that date back to the original apostles, they way the Anglicans do. [N.B. Othodox here is used as an opposite to heterodox; its a very specific religious term, not referring to the Eastern Orthodox or Greek Orthodox Churches at all]. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2010-05-02 15:06 |
| #4 If Anglicans believed that apostates from their denomination must be killed, they wouldn't face problems like this. |
| Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-05-02 15:01 |
| #3 the summit, which is likely to prove embarrassing to the Catholic Church I would think it would be more embarrassing to the Anglicans that a bunch of bishops want to return to the Church. |
| Posted by: Rambler in Virginia 2010-05-02 14:53 |
| #2 And stay away from the Presbys! I left. |
| Posted by: anonymous_2u2 2010-05-02 13:43 |
| #1 Apparently, the Anglicans want like, god and stuff in their religion and not just the latest lefty cause of the day. Go figure! |
| Posted by: SteveS 2010-05-02 12:17 |