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Africa North
No consensus after UN talks on Libya no-fly zone
2011-03-16
[Arab News] UNITED NATIONS: A divided UN Security Council on Monday discussed the idea of authorizing a no-fly zone over Libya, but no consensus emerged among its 15 members and Russia said it had questions about the proposal.

La Belle France, which along with Britain has led calls for an enforced ban on military flights across the North African oil-producing state, said it hoped the vaporous Arab League decision to ask the council to impose a no-fly zone would persuade reluctant members to support it.

"Now that there is this Arab League statement, we do hope that it's a game changer for the other members of the council," French UN Ambassador Gerard Araud said before the closed-door council meeting.

After the inconclusive meeting finished, Araud said he was still hopeful of getting a no-fly zone resolution approved. "It's possible," he said. "There was no total refusal. There were concerns, questions, but I think we are moving forward."

He said the council should act with greater urgency given the situation on the ground in Libya, where forces loyal to leader Muammar Qadaffy
... a proud Arab institution for 42 years ...
have launched a fierce counter-offensive against rebels trying to oust him and end his 41-year rule.

"We would prefer to act as quickly as possible, and we want that our partners on the council have the same sense of urgency that we have," he said. "That's the small regret that I have."

Council diplomats said the French goal of getting the council to vote on the no-fly zone by mid-week was ambitious.

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin told news hounds the council was not yet in a position to vote on a no-fly zone and a number of council members needed more information.

"Fundamental questions need to be answered, not just what we need to do, but how it's going to be done," he said. "If there is a no-fly zone, who is going to implement (it)? ... Without those details or answers to those questions, it's very hard to make a responsible decision."

US ready to discuss no-fly zone
Churkin added that Moscow remained "open-minded" and had not rejected the idea of a no-fly zone.

German Ambassador Peter Wittig said Berlin supports toughening the sanctions approved on Feb. 26 by the Security Council against Qadaffy, his family and inner circle, along with an arms embargo for the country. But Wittig said Germany needed more specifics about what a no-fly zone would entail.

"Questions were raised," he said. "We raised some questions and some of the questions are still unanswered."

US Ambassador Susan Rice told council members Washington was open to discussion of a no-fly zone, as part of a broader plan, but added that it was unlikely to stop the killing by itself, a council diplomat told Rooters.

"She also said that the United States would only participate in a no-fly zone if the Arab countries in the region support it in a meaningful way," the diplomat said.

Diplomats said the Germans were open to the idea of arming the rebels, though British Prime Minister David Cameron
... British PM Cameron describes himself as a modern compassionate conservative and has spoken of a need for a new style of politics that doesn't involve calling people names. He has stated that he is certainly a big Thatcher fan, but I don't know whether that makes me a Thatcherite, which means he's probably not. He has also claimed to be a liberal Conservative, and a very tall short person. Since he is not deeply ideological he lacks core principles and is easily led. He has urged politicians to concentrate on improving people's happiness and general well-being, instead of focusing solely on financial wealth, which is easy for a stockbroker's kid to say. Ask him to lend you ten quid and see how that works out. He has been described as certainly not a Pitt, Elder or Younger, but he does wear a nice suit so maybe he's Beau Brummel ...
told Britain's parliament that would be problematic, partly due to a UN arms embargo, which restricts all arms sales to Libya.

He added there were "practical problems and questions about how quickly it would actually lead to any material effect."

Lebanese Ambassador Nawaf Salam, the sole Arab representative on the council, told news hounds his delegation would be helping to prepare a draft resolution. He said Leb wanted the council "to act as swiftly as possible."

"We think it is not only a legitimate request, it is a necessary request. Measures ought to be taken to stop the violence, to put an end to the ... situation in Libya, to protect the civilians there," he said.

In addition to the United States, Germany and Russia, other members with questions about the no-fly zone issue include South Africa, Portugal and Brazil, diplomats told Rooters.

In order to pass, council resolutions need nine votes in favor and no vetoes from the five permanent members. NATO, the most likely candidate for enforcing a no-fly zone, has made clear that Security Council authorization would be required if it was to get involved in such an operation.
Posted by:Fred

#9  RUSSIA + GERMANY + TURKEY are repor formally agz the imposition of any NFZ over Libyuh.

* CNN AM Segment > IIRC, repor that the UNSC has instead voted in favor of imposing an ARMS EMBARGO, + ECON/FINANCIAL SANCTIONS agz Gaddafi.

* WORLDTRIBUNE > [NATO]REPORT: [Libyan]NO-FLY ZONE WOULD MEAN DESTROYING 500 TARGETS AT US$1-2.0MILYUN EACH [target], according to NATO's Center for Strategic + Budgetary Assessments.

More difficult + costly than for Saddam + Iraq, NATO must determine iff impos such a NFZ will indir help Gaddafi or not.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2011-03-16 20:52  

#8  Kuwait 1991

President HW Bush allowed Saddam to run back to Baghdad.

That worked out well.
Posted by: Skunky Glin****   2011-03-16 14:51  

#7  "Our skin" is already in this "game", whether you want it to be or not.
Posted by: Pappy   2011-03-16 14:03  

#6  Do you really want our skin in this game?
Posted by: newc   2011-03-16 10:17  

#5  The missing item is leadership. The US has none. The scumbag Obama should curl up and die due to what he has allowed to happen passively during his watch, in Iran and in Libya and elsehwere. We have never had a bigger coward in office.
Posted by: No I am The Other Beldar   2011-03-16 09:36  

#4  Permanent members
• China
• France
• Russia
• United Kingdom
• United States
Non-permanent members
• Bosnia-Hercegovina - until end of 2011
• Brazil - until end of 2011
• Gabon - until end of 2011
• Lebanon - until end of 2011
• Nigeria - until end of 2011
• Colombia - until end of 2012
• Germany - until end of 2012
• India - until end of 2012
• Portugal - until end of 2012
• South Africa - until end of 2012

On substantive issues, 9 votes are required to pass a resolution. What constitutes a substantive is debatable.

I see continued debate for quite awhile. I donÂ’t see much national interest by many of these members on the Libyan no-fly decision. Those who do have national interest seem to be hamstrung with regards to decision-making.
Posted by: JohnQC   2011-03-16 09:08  

#3  History is replete with despotic themes such as those highlighte in the Operation Barbarosso excerpt above. I generally look for the themes and patterns. In the end, I doubt anyone would deny, operation Barbarosso saved countless American lives.
Posted by: Besoeker   2011-03-16 04:57  

#2  Hitler Turns East

Stymied in his attempt to invade Britain in 1940, Hitler refocused his attention on opening an eastern front and conquering the Soviet Union. Since the 1920s, he had advocated seeking additional Lebensraum (living space) for the German people in the east. Believing the Slavs and Russians to be racially inferior, Hitler sought to establish a New Order in which German Aryans would control Eastern Europe and use it for their benefit. To prepare the German people for an attack on the Soviets, Hitler unleashed a broad propaganda campaign that focused on the atrocities perpetrated by Stalin's regime and the horrors of Communism.
Posted by: Besoeker   2011-03-16 04:51  

#1  NObody is going to DO anything no matter how "urgent" it gets.
NATO is going to squat and squeal and Britain and France and Germany and Russia are "going to study the problem." The UN will be as effective as it always is which is less than the Post Office in a blizzard. And Libya is gonna smell like something under the porch.
KaDaffy is gonna win as far as he is concerned because he will still BE there like the Palestinians are still there after they "lose" the wars but still keep their smell.

If you were some soldier being sent into Libya by your govt. what woold YOU be dying for? What's YOUR motivation for going down that Libyan street with your gun locked and loaded? How many aircraft are gonna be needed to patrol Libya and prep it so you dont meet anybody popping caps?
Does ANYbody besides France recognize the Rebel resistance as legitimate enough to deal with in PLACE of KaDAffy?

What's the PLAN for AFTER KaDffy folds? If he cries uncle who gets him? Are you gonna spank him?

NObody is going to do squat. KaDaffy is gonna kill people today, tomorrow and the next day. And NObody is gonna stop him. Obama should give a speech. And the UN and NATO can look at the pretty wallpaper and the Arab League can get its Arab "respect" back in a Turkish toilet.

Its all Bush's fault. Hello, Sailor.
Posted by: Dribble2716   2011-03-16 01:22  

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