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Britain
Rioters Being Thrown Out Of Free Housing - Play Victim Card
2011-08-13
A suspected looter in this week's riots and his mother are being thrown out of their council home.

In the first case of its kind, Daniel Sartain-Clarke, 18, and his mother have been served with an eviction notice as council bosses seek to turf them out of their £225,000 taxpayer-subsidised flat.
The times, they are a-changing
Sartain-Clarke is charged with violent disorder and attempting to steal electronic goods from the Currys store at Clapham Junction, South London, on Monday night.

Under housing rules his mother -- as the tenant -- can be evicted from their two-bedroom flat in Battersea if anyone living there is involved in criminality.

There is likely to be a flood of similar cases as council leaders across England respond to public demands that looters face the toughest penalties possible.
It's an easy way to cut government spending, and a strong message to behave. Good for them.
In another day of dramatic developments:
A serving paratrooper was remanded in custody charged with looting a £1,900 electric guitar in Manchester;
The Ministry of Justice revealed that the arrest total had reached 1,600, and that 796 of those had already been before courts;
Police were in revolt against the Government after criticism of their handling of the crisis by the Prime Minister and Home Secretary;
Fresh revelations emerged about the gangster background of Mark Duggan, whose death sparked the riots.

Sartain-Clarke was arrested after more than 100 looters went on the rampage on Monday night. For two hours, the mob ransacked mobile phone stores and sports shops such as Foot Locker and JD Sports.

He appeared before magistrates in Battersea on Wednesday and pleaded not guilty to burglary and violent disorder. He and two co-defendants were remanded in custody.

Last night Ravi Govindia, the leader of Wandsworth Council, which issued the eviction notice, said he wanted the 'strongest possible action' taken against rioters and looters.

'This council will do its utmost to ensure that those who are responsible pay a proper price,' he said. 'Ultimately this could lead to eviction from their homes.

'Our officers will continue to work with the courts to establish the identities of other council tenants or members of their households as more cases are processed in the coming days and weeks.

'Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week.

'As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated.'

But Sartain-Clarke's mother said her human rights had been 'taken for granted'.

Spanish-born Maite de la Calva, 43, said: 'I understand there are people who have got to face justice because all this has been madness and savagery.

'But, I believe our human rights have been completely taken for granted. Daniel was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

'As a mother, I'm not responsible for my son's actions and they are penalising me for his actions.'

The part-time worker said the decision had left her 'very upset' and she did not know where she and daughter Revecca, eight, would go.
Posted by:Anonymoose

#34  if they did this in the US THEN THERE WOULD BE NO MORE HOUSING PROJECTS.Not too mention they where living in a 225,000 pound flat? WTF
Posted by: chris   2011-08-13 22:45  

#33  having had the claptrap the schools sends home with a kid about 'you tell your parents they cant touch you. you call 911 if they threaten to spank you' replete with roll playing. i can tell you that it requires a significant will to overcome. and at some point inventive measures are required.

my oldest never quite had the attitude i see in some of the people i know at church's kids but at age 15 when he tried the 'F-U' attitude, i merely went to the breaker box and physically removed the breaker to his room and placed duct tape over the hole. After a couple days of fruitless whining to my wife, he came to me to get it turned back on whereupon i replied with "you spent weeks telling me to F*** myself when i had things important to me and the running of the house, so for now, you can go f*** yourself and see how well that attitude will connect you to the internet or charge your cell phone."

funny, the very next day,the lawn was mowed, the trash taken out, room cleaned, all kinds of stuff all without me saying a word. after a couple days of it i quietly put the breaker back in and restored power. periodically, we had some back-sliding and i would hit the utility room and 'Flick'.

Discipline is not always a sharp smack on the rear-end. as my dad told us growing up "this... it aint punishment. it's just to make sure you're listening."
Posted by: abu do you love   2011-08-13 21:37  

#32  a nice move to encourage the rest of the looter's parents on the dole to actually take an interest in what Junior is doing in a hoodie at 10PM with a gasoline smell on him
Posted by: Frank G on Tour   2011-08-13 20:03  

#31  I know of one frustrated parent who told social services "if you think you can do a better job you take them". Many children are in public school systems. They have had many years of social training. Much of it conflicts with parents efforts. I refuse to blame parents entirely. I know of several inner city people who survived social services managed care. The scars
never go away. When able they got out as fast as they could. Then never go back.
Posted by: Dale   2011-08-13 19:54  

#30  growing up now seems alot harder than when my kids grew up and moreso when I grew up.
Bottom line I like that these rioters are getting what they deserve.
Any chance of seeing this maneuver here in the states? Wishful thinking ;)
Posted by: Jan   2011-08-13 19:17  

#29  "Spanking wouldn't work, to scare these kids you need to get really medieval. No Blackberry for a month. Jeans with elasticated waistbands. Pudding bowl haircuts. I know it's harsh, but sometimes a bit of tough love is needed."

Heh - yeah, serious!
Posted by: newc   2011-08-13 19:06  

#28  Spanking wouldn't work, to scare these kids you need to get really medieval. No Blackberry for a month. Jeans with elasticated waistbands. Pudding bowl haircuts. I know it's harsh, but sometimes a bit of tough love is needed.
Posted by: Vernal Lumumba4842   2011-08-13 17:30  

#27   It involves good parenting skills.

And spanking.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2011-08-13 16:34  

#26  whoa, Vernal. "First the state tells parents (and teachers) that it's illegal to discipline kids,..."
Supporting and teaching your children what is right and wrong along with being a good role model showing them how to show respect and be a kind decent person doesn't always involve "discipline". It involves good parenting skills.
Posted by: Jan   2011-08-13 16:27  

#25  First the state tells parents (and teachers) that it's illegal to discipline kids, then 10 years later when the kids run riot the family gets thrown out of their accomodation. Don't worry though, the towering geniuses that subjected us to this failed experiment in social engineering have the solution - yet *more* state intrusion into our lives.
Posted by: Vernal Lumumba4842   2011-08-13 16:17  

#24  ..and speaking of food stamps. Note the generosity of the state when even existing federal regs don't allow it.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2011-08-13 16:05  

#23  "They were in public housing so they have no money"

And some of us work in shitty jobs that we hate.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2011-08-13 15:39  

#22  Jan, don't even bother changing the rules on how food stamps can be used n order to make people eat healthy. Many of the people on food stamps have been that way for a long time and know how to work the system. They will find a way to work around any restrictions. For example, I once heard a story of a food stamp recipient was told he couldn't buy dog food with food stamps. So he took the dog food back and bought steak for his dog.
Posted by: Rambler in Virginia   2011-08-13 15:26  

#21  They were in public housing so they have no money.

Bullsh*t check section 8 housing. My dad used to own several in Savannah. I had the pleasure of collecting the $50-$75 they paid monthly. Every room had a better TV than my main one and all the cars in the yard were newer.
Posted by: Beavis   2011-08-13 15:19  

#20  Abu, I agree with you. If you don't have to pay for housing, food or insurance, you have awhole lotta money to spend on the extras. While those of us paying our mortgage and monthly bills don't have the luxury of buying the extras such as the big screen TV's, I-phones or just enjoying a nice dinner out. I see many folks getting assistance with intricate tattoos (nothing against tattoos, I just know they don't come cheap)and clothing while driving a nice high end truck. Angry? You bet I am. Not to get too far off the subject, but I'd like to see food stamps not be able to buy candy, fast foods such as frozen pizza or other crap. With the white house wanting to push the healthy food agenda this would be a good place to start if it gets going at all. If these folks needing assistance aren't working, they have time to cook their meals. Also, I suspect some double dipping going on with folks getting food stamps and then the kids get fed at school too, instead of their parents preparing or fixing a lunch and feeding their kids. Alot of the food for the kids at school gets thrown out too, I've seen it.
Posted by: Jan   2011-08-13 15:04  

#19  Most of those brought before the court have plead guilty (probably because their mugs are on CCTV)
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2011-08-13 14:48  

#18  #3: "They were in public housing so they have no money"

a pure fallacy. odds are that they have far more money that those of us carrying a mortgage. last month my wife went drove her sister to the office for WIC assistance. how odd the feeling to notice that she the working and responsible one was the only person in the waiting room without a smart phone and a data plan.
Posted by: abu do you love   2011-08-13 14:02  

#17  Like I said, you have to be stupid, stupid, stupid to riot in the most camera ridden city on the planet.
Posted by: newc   2011-08-13 13:41  

#16  Sartain-Clarke was arrested after more than 100 looters went on the rampage on Monday night. For two hours, the mob ransacked mobile phone stores and sports shops such as Foot Locker and JD Sports.

And on a school night!
Posted by: bigjim-CA   2011-08-13 13:39  

#15  Awesome!
Throw their butts out, I'm so tired of folks expecting to be taken care of while they sit on their butts feeling entitled to all kinds of services and amenities. Hell, they probably felt entitled to the stuff they looted.
Here the government is trying to help the downtrodden and this is what they get in return. Folks don't seem to appreciate things given to them, I always have felt you need to earn or work for something, the person will value it more.
However, I do agree that the evictions should wait until proven guilty, hopefully the many videos will lead to a swift determination. Regarding them not having anyplace to go, they should go directly to jail, I'd rather pay for their jail stay instead of the housing they're getting now. As Procopius2k said, look to your family first when faced with homelessness instead of government. When I was younger, I babysat and cleaned a home for a room and board. I worked my tail off but felt good that I was able to make ends meet until I got into a better situation.
Posted by: Jan   2011-08-13 13:28  

#14  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Dalrymple

Start with the Wikipedia article, then look at some of Dalrymple's writings for thoughtful discussion of the issues leading up to this mess.
Posted by: mom   2011-08-13 13:12  

#13  cracker
Posted by: Andy Ulavick1913   2011-08-13 13:00  

#12   He hasn't been found guilty. Innocent until proven

In England?
Posted by: anonymous2u   2011-08-13 12:49  

#11  The part-time worker said the decision had left her 'very upset' and she did not know where she and daughter Revecca, eight, would go.

How about...back to Spain?
Posted by: tu3031   2011-08-13 12:05  

#10  Daniel was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nobody loves you like your mother, and she could be jivin' too.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418   2011-08-13 11:59  

#9  Yes there is innocent until proven guilty but there is also a chance with all the cameras up throughout the area they have him dead to rights committing the act, which is why Daniel is one of the first to go through the process. I could be wrong of course, but if I were processing this stuff i'd get a few clear cut ones through to start off and leave the less clear ones for later.
Posted by: rjschwarz   2011-08-13 11:58  

#8  ...just remember while we trace much of our law back to England, their concepts and processes are different from ours. Thus, the Bill of Rights [not that many modern American progressives sitting on our benches are sticklers for the printed word].
Posted by: Procopius2k   2011-08-13 11:47  

#7  As much as I support this action, it is premature. Once they are found guilty, then let the evictions begin. Just simple CYA on the part of the council. I would imagine that trials will be fairly swift. Patience.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2011-08-13 10:58  

#6  have been served with an eviction notice as council bosses seek to turf them out

It appears that, like a mortgage foreclosure, this will go through the courts. If the lad isn't found guilty of looting, they'll be able to appeal for cause, and no doubt win in a court system which leans away from bloody landlords, however wonderfully governmental.
Posted by: trailing wife   2011-08-13 09:02  

#5  2) If you evict rioters they then have to go somewhere else.

No different than a downturn in the economy. When you have no rent money, where do you go? First option is family or friends, which means doubling up and living like a lot of humans did a mere fifty years ago. Of course that was before the state set out on policies to destroy the basic family unit. So if you or your progenitors didn't establish a 'traditional' family infrastructure and/or basically made a pest of yourself among the population failing to make real friends, you've burned your own bridges to sustainment.
Posted by: Procopius2k   2011-08-13 08:53  

#4  Seeing as how the rioters made a great many other people homeless by setting fire to the shops with inhabited flats over them ... my well of sympathy is pretty-well drained dry for the rioting yoots and their families at this point.
Posted by: Sgt. Mom   2011-08-13 08:50  

#3  I understand the desire to cheer this move. Anything that makes these louts more accountable for their action is to be applauded

Especially good to see parents held accountable for the actions of their children. Better parenting, after all, is what was required to stop the riots in the first place.

But there are a couple of problems with this particular story:

1) He hasn't been found guilty. Innocent until proven. What if he wasn't looting?

2) If you evict rioters they then have to go somewhere else. They were in public housing so they have no money. If they are on the streets, then they may commit further crimes to get money for a bond etc.

if caught they will end up in jail where it costs lots and lots of money to keep them.

if not caught they will only cause more problems for ordinary people than they would otherwise.

The good bit of this policy though is collective responsibility of the family. inconvenience the rest of the family and they will kick the boy's butt to make sure no further looting goes on
Posted by: anon1   2011-08-13 08:13  

#2  Ravi Govindia should be given the Rantburg 'Hero of the Day' Award. The day after the lost weekend is a bitch, isn't it, Danny Boy...
Posted by: Shakey Steve   2011-08-13 08:02  

#1  Just out of curiosity WHAT is Iran's immigration policy for people who want to move there and start new lives in one of Islams most "interesting" countries?

Convert to Islam , learn Farsi, and start a new LIFE..AND did I mention that one out of every 16 Iranians uses Heroin? They use just about everything Pakistan processes from the Afghan Opium crop.
A beautiful life await you in sunny Iran. Throw over the grim grey streets of sooty Britain and seek Utopia in the land of the smiling Mullahs. You owe it to yourself.
Posted by: de Medici   2011-08-13 07:56  

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