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China-Japan-Koreas
50 N. Korean submarines away from base
2015-08-24
More than 50 North Korean submarines are apparently away from their bases for operations, a sign that the North is gearing up for combat while participating in high-level talks aimed at easing tension, an official here said Sunday. The North is known to have around 70 submarines.

"Seventy percent of North Korea's submarines left their bases, and their locations are not confirmed," the South Korean military official told reporters.

The unpredictable communist nation has also doubled the number of its artillery troops on the border, with the command to be combat ready, according to the official.

Top government officials from the two Koreas were supposed to resume their talks at the truce village of Panmunjom at 3 p.m. Sunday. It has not been confirmed yet whether they began the meeting as scheduled.
Posted by:Blossom Unains5562

#16  NO RETURN OF TAIWAN TO MAINLAND CHINA = CHINA WILL CONTINUE TO DOMINATE, IFF NOT EVENTUALLY ANNEX, NORTH KOREA, + SOKOR IN TIME AS OPPORTUNITY ARISES.

CHINA = wants the Diaoyus/Senkaku Islands + Okinawa Islands, + new islands in SCS, to secure the startegic approaches to,from its desired future PLA CENTCOM on Taiwan.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2015-08-24 22:40  

#15  Again, CHINA = PLA is in control of NOKOR's military + Space, NUke Programs, etc. NOT NOKOR per se.

NOKOR has then unenviable job or duty to be killed by one or both sides, i.e. US-Allies-vs-China, iff a major war breaks out on the Peninsula.

The real threat to SOKOR + JAPAN is via CHINA's LRBMS, PLAAF ALCMS + TLAMS, Motherly PLA Airborne Forces, + Sino-NOKOR SPECOPS.

Again, CHINA = unlikely to agree to any INTER-KOREAN REUNIFICATION unless it de facto gets back TAIWAN, + any new post-Reunification Inter-Korean Govt. must also likely be CHINA-FRIENDLY/NEUTRAL, + NONE OR VERY SMALL, BENIGN US MILFOR PRESENCE IN THE NOW FORMER SOUTH KOREA [ditto Japan?].

PERSONALLY, I'M INTERPRETING THIS LATEST INCIDENT BETWEN THE TWO KOREAS AS CHINA GETTING MORE BELLICOSE IN REGARDS TO ACHIEVING ITS SUPERPOWER AMBITIONS + STRATEGIC ACCESS FOR THE PLA IN EAST ASIA-PACIFIC.

* FYI PRAVDA > US [weighs option = decision] TO DEPLOY [base] B-52 NUCLEAR BOMBERS AND NUCLEAR SUB IN SOUTH KOREA.

CHINA = Beijing to get more nervousy twitchy.

MOre evidencia/indicia that so-called US-CHINA "SHARING" OF THE PACIFIC = US DOMINATING OR ISOLATING CHINA IN AN UN-FRIENDLY, ANTI/NON-CO-SUPERPOWER WAY.

* TOPIX > [Japan Times] CHINA WANTS GREAT POWER, NOT RESPONSIBILITY.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2015-08-24 22:32  

#14  How long can they remain at sea. I imagine that large a deployment drained the warehouse.
Posted by: NoMoreBS   2015-08-24 20:59  

#13  If NK thinks it might end up in a shooting war, it makes sense to surge the only useful naval assets they have and get them out to sea rather then let them be destroyed at dock.
Posted by: Chantry   2015-08-24 19:03  

#12  Their value is in the implied threat. In an actual shooting war N. Korea would fall apart quickly.
Posted by: Iblis   2015-08-24 16:24  

#11  If I have a specialty, which is questionable, nautical strategies are not it. I have noted over the years however, that the NORKS use small subs for pesky infiltration missions into the South. They have generally turned into one-way suicide missions. 50 seems a rather large number.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-08-24 15:52  

#10  Do any of these subs have ballistic missile capability, perhaps something improvised and grafted on?

Ballistic missile capability? No.

Improvised and grafted? It's remotely possible. There is evidence that one submarine has undergone sail modifications for a missile tube. At last report, the only tests were for ejecting the missile (not the actual firing of the missile.) Whether or not that has been done to others would be conjecture.
Posted by: Pappy   2015-08-24 15:12  

#9  Re #7: Why can the answer to your question not be
'C; Both are correct?'
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2015-08-24 14:26  

#8  Do any of these subs have ballistic missile capability, perhaps something improvised and grafted on?

The big worry would be an EMP attack on North America.
Posted by: Elmerert Hupens2660   2015-08-24 14:26  

#7  How much of this increased posturing is real pre-war positioning of forces (the explosions in Japan at us logistics facilities are very troubling) and how much is bluster at a new level. Is fat boy really consolidating power because of shaky grip, or has someone figured that Champ really is gutless?
Posted by: NoMoreBS   2015-08-24 14:01  

#6  Not enough?
Posted by: Bobby   2015-08-24 13:01  

#5  Given the age and lack of good spare parts for maintenance, how many of these are now at the bottom of the Sea of Japan?
Posted by: DarthVader   2015-08-24 11:19  

#4  Let's not dismiss the trouble (1) of these subs could cause.

Read "Flight of the Old Dog" (yeah, I know it's fiction, but...).
Posted by: Vast Right Wing Conspiracy   2015-08-24 09:33  

#3  Can the subs reach the US or shooting distance?

Sure, but unlikely.
DPRK can receive logistics support overland from either Russia or China. The 20,000 US troops in ROK can only be supported through the seaports. Simply blocking those channels by sinking a few tankers and freighters will isolate the ROK.
One scenario that was once played by David Poyer was a mini-sub nuclear event at the major ROK port of Pusan. Such an action would make all of the heavy-lift load and unload resupply capability unavailable.
Posted by: Skidmark   2015-08-24 09:23  

#2  3DC,

Kimmie's operational boats are a weird mix:

*About 30 Romeo and Whisky SS, all 50s and 60s ex-Soviet and ex-Chinese, with a handful of Nork-built ones in the fleet. The oldest ones are near museum pieces, and although they are capable enough for the time when they were built, up against a late-flight Los Angeles (or worse, a brand new Virginia) they will be in deep trouble unless their skippers and crews are world class...and they ain't.
*Approximately 40 Sang-0 class. These are good, well-designed, but fairly small boats that can only carry 2 torpedoes and/or 4 mines...and the mines are likely to be what they're carrying. On the other hand, the ROK captured one of these beasts some years ago, so they know it inside and out.
*A small number of midget subs, one of which killed the ROK frigate Cheonan a couple years ago. If anything, these are the ones we need to be worried about - they're small, quiet, and they've got a punch.

As far as them getting close to the US...the Romeos and Whiskeys could do it, but if they have, there's an SSN sitting right behind them waiting. The Sang-0s and midgets are strictly local - but they could do grim damage to merchant traffic in ROK ports or even some Japanese ports.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski   2015-08-24 05:59  

#1  Can the subs reach the US or shooting distance?
Posted by: 3dc   2015-08-24 02:08  

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