You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Submit your comments on this article
Science
A nice executive order - read it!
2020-04-07
[WhiteHouse.gov] Americans should have the right to engage in commercial exploration, recovery, and use of resources in outer space, consistent with applicable law. Outer space is a legally and physically unique domain of human activity, and the United States does not view it as a global commons. Accordingly, it shall be the policy of the United States to encourage international support for the public and private recovery and use of resources in outer space, consistent with applicable law.

[..]

Accordingly, the Secretary of State shall object to any attempt by any other state or international organization to treat the Moon Agreement as reflecting or otherwise expressing customary international law.


Posted by:3dc

#27  I would think the Thai samples would be very useful as well

Yep. And, according to "worldometers/info/coronavirus" site, they handled coronavirus really well.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 15:27  

#26  I've trouble commenting to this thread
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 15:25  

#25  I would think the Thai samples would be very useful as well. China did ‘publish’ the sequencing but the first samples themselves would be definitive proof. Likely the world would never get those.
Posted by: bombay    2020-04-07 15:07  

#24  welcome
Posted by: Frank G   2020-04-07 14:31  

#23  Thanks, Frank.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 14:28  

#22  G: The coronavirus came from either the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention or Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan, China.

The study concluded the deadly virus came out of local laboratories in Hubei Province. The smoking gun in the study is the link to horseshoe bats which are not sold in local markets and not native to Wuhan. In fact the closest colony is 900 kilometers away. There is no evidence horseshoe bats were sold in the Wuhan wet markets. The local labs used this bat specimen and the virus came from a lab in Wuhan.
Posted by: Frank G   2020-04-07 14:24  

#21  I'm sure Japanese and South Koreans kept samples from the beginning.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 14:20  

#20  The timing of samples sequenced will be important in that distinction. At 30k base pairs and two or more mutations that stick a month getting a hold of the very first samples from China would be key ....
Posted by: bombay    2020-04-07 14:09  

#19  were it engineered, I’m still not convinced of that

Sooner, or later, we'll have the RNA/DNA sequence of the spike protein - I predict dozens of base differences from the bat's - all enhancing binding to ACE2.

p.s. I remember something about the bats it's coming from NOT being found in Wuhan region.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 13:27  

#18  /\ Thank you for your comments bombay.
Posted by: Besoeker   2020-04-07 11:28  

#17  Just a technical note but the CoVs are ssRNA viruses. They would have been using a bit different technique than random changes and PCR duplication (were it engineered, I’m still not convinced of that).

Your point still stands, but of note introducing base changes in RNA is even easier. Getting viable and stable changes may be a different story depending what you are attempting to engineer.

In 92 at uni we were engineering E. coli via PCR just as you said and we could have as first year biochemistry students easily made simple bioweapons.
Posted by: bombay    2020-04-07 11:07  

#16  #13. No it doesn't. Mangele was a monster - but he didn't (by himself) threaten human life on this planet.

My point is, what biological weapons are a lot more dangerous than nuclear. You need thousands of competent people to make a nuke - because it has thousands of components that need to function perfectly for it to work.
And nukes don't self-multiply!
Any idiot with an access to a modern molecular biology lab (and there are thousands of them in the world)* can make a biological weapon. And the dumber and more careless he is, the more dangerous this weapon will be.

*A friend of mine works in the lab where they use the technique that (I conjecture) was used to produce the spike protein for novel coronavirus to study bacteriorhodopsin.
What they do is mutate the coding DNA at random. Separate the mutated DNA until they have a single copy - so they can study the effect of one particular mutation at one the time. Multiply this copy into thousands with PCR, insert that DNA into plasmid. Inject the plasmid into a commercially purchased strain of E. Coli (it can't infect humans or anything because it cannot live outside a very specific lab conditions). Produce bunches of mutated bacteriorhodopsin. Carry out biochemical function tests. Try to infer what the results mean - that's the hard part😃.
Everything they use: PCR kits, plasmids, E coli is purchased commercially - they don't produce them in their own lab. Everything is about as hard to use as putting together a piece of IKEA furniture.

Now, what I think the Wuhan Einsteins did, is use the same methods (with staff bought from the same suppliers) to produce mutated copies of bat coronavirus spike protein. Test them for increased affinity to the human target protein. Mutate successful copies further - artificial evolution. When they got that they wanted (don't ask me why they wanted it) they inserted the evolved DNA back into coronavirus.
And then it run away.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 09:57  

#15  #10 Guess I envy you, but I can't share your faith in benevolent creator. And lets not talk about this anymore.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 09:26  

#14  

Stanton T. Friedman had worked with some amazing nuclear rocket engines. Used to scoff at the very thought of using chemical rockets for planetary explorations. The man was no joke.
Posted by: Woodrow   2020-04-07 09:12  

#13  Ref #8: *We're now having an example of that happens when half-competent people (Wuhan "scientists") play with modern biological techniques.

Simon Wiesenthal's search for doctor and anthropologist Joseph Mengele provides an earlier example.
Posted by: Besoeker   2020-04-07 07:25  

#12  Thar is gold in them there hills!
Posted by: 3dc   2020-04-07 06:23  

#11  When I think more of it, the modern democracy is nothing short of a Babel. And anything proposed by it like 'a tower reaching into heaven' is bound to fail by default. Another self-licking ice cream cone for bureaucrats, manufacturers and legislators that ultimately delivers nothing to better humanity. Of course, if my government would undertake such a thing I would support it as best I could, my biases notwithstanding. In the hope that mayhap some tangential avenue of research from such projects leads to other practicable applications.

My point is, it was actually easier to repair our planet with just a little realism and practicality. The easy way out is to always reach for the reset switch; pack up and move to Arkansas; divorce and buy a cat. It's a conceit of the rich denialist, but how long can one hide from hard truths ?
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 06:12  

#10  we have to go out because this planet is, rapidly, becoming uninhabitable

I admit my view is coloured by blind faith.

I understand your view too. Often, my faith gets the better of my ambitions you see. I can't overstep my bounds seeing how it turns out for Nimrods. While many may think it silly superstition, to me it's prudent.

Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:54  

#9  Now, if there's a chance of developing some kind of orbital weapon that can threaten portions of the world with mass destruction without radiation, unchallenged by any other power or counter... then that would be a thing, yeah.
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:48  

#8  Sorry, but I believe in exactly the opposite - we have to go out because this planet is, rapidly, becoming uninhabitable*.
Our ancestors didn't leave Africa after achieving paradise there - look at post-colonial Africa.

*We're now having an example of that happens when half-competent people (Wuhan "scientists") play with modern biological techniques. What will happen when quarter-competent: Pakis & Iranians; will start?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 05:38  

#7  ^^ Shit. I meant 'once we brought this planet...'

Actually, I'm just hungry.
[Runs off to the kitchen]
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:37  

#6  ^ Sorry, I meant lofty ideals.
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:32  

#5  ^ Of course, my view is unpopular, Grom. Even dumb by today's lefty ideals. I just know that Gawd gave man the earth, with everything in it. And only the earth. And we fucked that up too.

But even from a non-theist POV; it's slightly mental to continue in denial of the enemies of humanity itself thriving and throbbing around us, while we talk about diversifying into every thing except what needs to be done. In my view, we cannot advance to the stars, or seek the deeper dimensions while our impending problems with Law, Justice and political Violence remain unsolved.

It's like filling the library of Alexandria with choice productions of creative minds and collective genius; building economies of gold and silver; architectural wonders and temples by hundred thousands of hands over decades. Only waiting for it all to be razed by dim-witted hordes we ignored in the process. Or worse, suicidally stupid liberals.

I think if we just selectively depopulated this planet, we have enough resource and peace of mind to last us a good millennia or two. For this, we only need to climb up out of the liberal humanist guilt embedded in our modern morality systems and re-write our laws to reduce the chances of survival of the criminal, the dangerous.

Once we this planet under dominion of reason and justice; I believe we could graduate to the stars.
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:30  

#4  What about "Don't keep all of Humanity's eggs in one basket", Drone?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 05:02  

#3  Yupp. Sounds American all right. ☺

Skeptical about the 'we're done with this rock, let's go leech space' thingy though. My own antediluvian christian view though.
Posted by: Dron66046   2020-04-07 05:00  

#2  Private companies find role in developing nuclear power for space travel
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 03:05  

#1  It is the 21st century, we were promised!!!
Posted by: g(r)omgoru   2020-04-07 02:46  

00:00