I wish to express my thanks and appreciation from my fellow Rantburgers for your help over the last couple of years. Your efforts have played a large part in keeping me sane.
Met the Social Security Administrative Judge yesterday, and he approved my Social Security Disability. This will remove a considerable amount of stress from my and my family's life, and make life a bit easier for us.
Special thanks to Fred, for creating and managing this awesome site, and for all the friendship and support I've enjoyed as a "regular" over tha past three years or so. God bless you all, each and every one, regardless of your personal beliefs!
#4
I think it hits us all that way at some point. Several times for me, in fact! Frend and the gang are indeed life savers. Glad to hear things are going better for you and your family now, and may it go even better in the future.
#2
Eeh, they've already had enough politically correct bull-originated-fertilizer on this incarnation of the doctor. Turnabout is fair play, I believe he's really behind the daleks to increace his own power :-)
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
06/18/2005 14:43 Comments ||
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#3
Anon, the Calicivirus wasn't genetically engineered. It was a naturally occurring virus out of Central Asia, IIRC. Nor did it wipe out the rabbit, more's the pity. My guesstimate of rabbit numbers in Central Australia is that they have stabilised at 10 to 20 percent of pre calici numbers.
#6
details details! It certainly decimated the rabbit population. I'm happy to call a 90% kill rate wiped out.
You are right, I checked calicivirus is a natural mutation of a rabbit virus. A virus that suddenly got extremely deadly for European rabbits. First official case: China.
Biological control is very effective, wish we could make some viruses to wipe out cane toads, killer bees, funnel webs and box jellyfish.
#8
Just this once, heh: Just stick the URL of the graphic in the quotes. Make sure it's no more than about 500 pixels wide, lol. Preceed this with a hard return, just to be safe - i.e. put it on a line by itself - I don't think you want to be doing text-wrapping, just yet. And, of course, I could add the code for forcing the image size, but that would confuse non-HTLMers enough to guarantee someone would hose it and waste RB layout, lol!
Chinese farmers, acting with the approval and encouragement of government officials, have tried to suppress major bird flu outbreaks among chickens with an antiviral drug meant for humans, animal health experts said. International researchers now conclude that this is why the drug will no longer protect people in case of a worldwide bird flu epidemic.
China's use of the drug amantadine, which violated international livestock guidelines, was widespread years before China acknowledged any infection of its poultry, according to pharmaceutical company executives and veterinarians.
#3
anon1, your only options are to scam doctors - not that hard just research your story first, or get someone who is going overseas to somewhere where they can buy over the counter. A person can bring in a 3 month supply of a medication at the manufacturers recommended maximum dose. They just have to say its for their own personal use.
#5
thanks China! Stupid backwards ass-covering bureaucrats will bring a frigging plague upon us and we won't have an effective recourse. I just hope China's wiped out first, starting with the Politburo, then VN. Quarantine them at first (published) outbreak ...as if they'd tell us promptly
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/18/2005 10:50 Comments ||
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#6
I just hope China's wiped out first, starting with the Politburo, then VN.
Given that flu outbreaks usually originate in that region, it's always a possibility.
#7
Thanks for the post, phil_b - I appreciate how you stay so closely on top of this news topic. The stories don't instill fear (Anymore - I read The Coming Plague over a decade ago, so I've already been scared witless and recovered, lol!) but they do stoke a slow-burn anger at Asia, in general, and China, in particular for the cavalier / paranoid (weird combo) handling of something which could become a pandemic almost overnight.
The really amazing thing, and this story is a prime example of it, is that they seem to choose precisely the wrong thing to do at every critical decision step along the way. I presume they are not trying to create a pandemic, but you certainly wouldn't know it by examining their actions.
They just might succeed, far better than ever imagined, in handling that little population problem.
#8
Someone who can read Chinese and is following Chinese language sources remarked yesterday that the Chinese government seems unusually paranoid even for them. Here
Do what you wish, but I am stocking up on stuff and have a backup means of cooking if I lose electricity and gas. Keeping warm isn't a real issue here. Next step is a means to store enough water for a weeks use.
The problem with a panic is everyone does it at the same time.
#9
Phil, apparently sari silk makes a fabulous water filter -- if you boil or treat the water first, let it settle, then pour through the silk to get out all the icky particulates. So you can probably get by with a 3-day supply of bottled water to get past the initial difficulties (4 liters/person/day for drinking as I recall). I keep distilled water in gallon plastic jugs, which I use anyway for ironing Mr. Wife's work shirts, and tomorrow he gets a chainsaw for Father's Day/ 23rd wedding anniversary, which he can use to create firewood. ;-) Do you really think bad days are a'coming, or are you just taking sensible precautions?
Fourteen Chinese detainees in Sydney's Villawood detention centre have been taken to hospital this afternoon after harming themselves.
The Immigration Department says no one has tried to commit suicide. It is understood two women and 12 men have been taken to hospital and that the men have slashed their wrists.
Uniting Church refugee advocate Frances Milne says her contacts inside Villawood say the incident began when a Chinese woman with a history of suicide attempts once more tried to take her own life. Ms Milne says an older woman became distressed when she saw the blood and suffered pains in her chest and that both women were taken to hospital.
"Now a short time later, 12 male Chinese in another part of Villawood detention centre also cut their wrists, but one, the opinion of one of the persons was that it was more, perhaps of a symbolic gesture, although he's not sure," she said.
Fed Govt came out saying they were changing the laws to be softer on illegal immigrants, would let them out etc.
So this was perfect opportunity for media savvy illegals to do a bit of self-mutilation and get their pity party in the media to maximise the government's concession.
I don't get it. The Howard govt controls senate and floor. We voted them in to take no schtik from illegal immigrants. So what are they doing rolling over like this?
Deport them all now.
If they've gone through a couple of appeals processes and judges have upheld they are NOT refugees then send them packing don't let them keep appealing and dragging out their time in detention!
Real refugees are sitting in third world countries scrabbling in the dust for a bit of food to eat. They don't have thousands of dollars to pay for transit to indonesia and then a people smuggler to get them on a boat unlike these illegals.
#2
"To deport these individuals without determining their refugee status would be a violation of both the spirit and letter of international law," Amnesty International said. "These are vulnerable people who may have fled ... in fear for their lives. To return them there without due process would be a violation of the most fundamental obligation of international refugee protection," the organization added. Its against 'international law' to deport people who claim to 'fear for their lives'. The UN and AI say so.
More on the SloMo Kyoto train wreck. Europe is failing to tackle climate change, putting further pressure on Tony Blair to come up with a fresh initiative at the G8 summit and embarrassing the European commission, which is floundering over budget cuts and the constitution treaty.
The latest figures for Europe's greenhouse gas emissions, seen by the Guardian but not due to be released until next week, show that the 15 countries who were EU members in 2003 increased their overall emissions by 1.1% in the year up to 2004.
Under the Kyoto agreement, which came into force earlier this year, EU countries must reduce emissions by 8% by 2012 - something which looks increasingly unlikely. Figures from the European Environment Agency show that only France, Germany, Sweden and the UK have any hope of cutting their energy use in time to meet their targets and that most countries are now falling well behind.
They also show that Britain increased its total emissions more than all other EU countries except Italy and Finland in 2003/4. The 1.3% increase, equivalent to 7.4m tonnes of carbon, was mainly because people drove more. Britain is expected to only just fulfil its Kyoto obligations but not the government's more ambitious target of a 20% cut in emissions by 2010.
In the EU only Ireland and Portugal have cut their emissions. But both are expected to exceed their future targets following years of economic expansion. Finland, Denmark and Austria burned more fossil fuels than in previous years.
Yesterday, the commission played down the figures, blaming a harsh winter for the increases. "It was very cold across Europe. The number of days that people needed to hear their homes was much higher," said a spokeswoman. Let me get this straight, you failed to reach your targets to stop climate warming because the climate was too cold.
But the figures are embarrassing for Britain, which is chairing the G8's discussions on climate change and assumes the presidency of the EU in less than two weeks. The statistics may weaken Britain's negotiating hand with the US by suggesting that wealthy countries' policies to curb the use of fossil fuels are not working.
One reason the US gave for not joining the Kyoto treaty was because the US administration said it would not deliver the cuts needed to avoid serious climate change. Looks like they were right!
Chris Green, the Lib Dems' environment spokesman in the European parliament, said: "The upward trend in European emissions is very worrying. These figures put in doubt the EU's commitment to fighting climate change. "The commission must seize the initiative and give a stronger lead."
Catherine Pearce, global climate change spokeswoman for Friends of the Earth, said: "If Britain and the rest of Europe cannot get it right, then how can anyone expect the US or developing countries to?" One of the most sensible things I have ever heard a radical Green say.
Leaked papers showed yesterday that the Bush administration officials working behind the scenes in advance of the G8 summit have weakened key sections of a proposal for joint climate change action by the G8. In the past few weeks, negotiators have deleted language which set ambitious targets to cut carbon dioxide emissions and stricter environmental standards for World Bank-funded power projects.
Next week the government's Sustainable Development Commission will propose radical new vehicle and aviation taxes, greater household energy efficiency and a carbon neutral public sector (I have no idea what that means, but its a triumph of Burecratic gobbledegook) to save at least 10m tonnes of carbon.
The UK's emissions are increasing mainly because rising traffic levels are eliminating the small gains being made in fuel efficiency. Or put another way legally mandated energy reductions are a spectacularly bad idea that don't work and tend to produce the opposite effect.
#2
Check this out:
--
Kyoto advocates mislead us all by focusing on emissions per head instead on net emissions per square kilometre of governed territory.
This has a remarkable effect on priorities and targets.
A focus on net emissions recognizes that any nation both generates anthropogenic green house gases and absorbs them. Generally, urban areas create greenhouse gas emissions while rural areas absorb them.
Hence net emissions relate to population density. While the US may be the greatest emitter there is now considerable evidence that the US is an overall greenhouse gas sink. On the other hand Europe with its high population densities far exceeds the United States in terms of net emissions per square kilometre.
This is the "US is the great polluter" fraud.
---
Great article, read it all, debunking Kyoto fraud at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1034067/posts
#3
According to a very Pro-Kyoto Canadian website, this is their estimate of the difference Kyoto will make - and it ain't much.
Actually I read elsewhere it is more like a delay of Global Warming (not necessarily a bad thing) by 3 months.
But here is their figure:
Without the Protocol, scientists estimate mean temperatures will rise by about 1°C by 2050, and 2.5°C by 2100. With the Protocol, the expected rate of temperature rise is a little bit much lower. Between 0.04-0.10°C by 2050, and 0.08-0.28°C by 2100(but this is just a delay of the inevitable)
The worst thing about the Kyoto myth is it encourages people to see carbon dioxide as a pollutant when it is a benign gas necessary for all life on earth. Increasing C02 levels lead to lusher plant growth: they IMPROVE the biodiversity of plants.
But instead the alternative is nuclear power which releases deadly toxic pollutants that nobody wants to store anywhere near their backyard. But the nuclear industry is the big winner out of the Kyoto Fraud.
And what a great world it will be when every tinpot dictatorship has access to plutonium because they "need" a reactor for "energy". And dumps their N-waste in the nearest river or desert where it will be dangerous for hundreds of thousands of years long after the warning signs (if there are any) come down.
So much for limiting nukes to the developed world.
#4
Whopping effect of Kyoto Protocol a load of hot air
Here is the conclusion of a long, boring scientific paper discussing the effect of Kyoto at its highest and best, assuming US and Australian ratification:
--------
We find that implementing the Kyoto Protocol until 2012 has only an effect of 2 ppmv on CO2 concentration and several hundredth of a degree Celsius in 2012, its implementation and reductions after 2012 enable reaching a maximum CO2 concentration level by 2050 that is by the order of 20 ppmv or two tenths of a degree Celsius lower than not implementing the Kyoto Protocol
for reference: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ZzPDuX9-lWIJ:www.stabilisation2005.com/posters/Hohne_Niklas.pdf+impact+effect+%22kyoto%22&hl=en
#7
"Next week the government's Sustainable Development Commission will propose radical new vehicle and aviation taxes, greater household energy efficiency and a carbon neutral public sector" (I have no idea what that means, but its a triumph of Burecratic gobbledegook)
It means fewer poorer people will be able to afford to own and use cars, and low cost air travel will become a thing of the past. The government intends to price the less priviliged off the road and out of the planes. A good bit of old style socialism from New Labour. Nice, eh?
#8
While the US may be the greatest emitter there is now considerable evidence that the US is an overall greenhouse gas sink. On the other hand Europe with its high population densities far exceeds the United States in terms of net emissions per square kilometre.
That can change if the people in charge here don't get a handle on illegal immigration...
#9
anon1, your Saudi link nails one thing, which is that we don't have visibility on supply (or reserves). This makes us vulnerable to oil price shocks, which we seem to be on the verge of. If oil goes higher Monday/Tuesday next week, we won't see $58/b oil again for quite a while.
#12
Socialist govts in general demand their economic units work more regardless of the merits so that the State can take more - for me Kyoto is just a feel-good, PC alibi for Socialist Govts to raise tax burdens while making sure no one gets wealthy, since wealth = competition against Big Govt.
#13
They may demand, Joseph, but what they get is "You pretend to pay us, and we'll pretend to work." So everybody loses, which is exactly what's happening in the most socialist European countries.
The EU faced further crisis last night as Tony Blair formally blocked a deal that would have substantially cut Britain's £3.2 billion annual budget rebate. Senior British officials suspected that a trap had been set for the Prime Minister that would have preserved France's farm subsidies until 2013 while offering no prospect of fundamental reform of EU finances until then.
Having kicked the problem of the constitution into the long grass, the summit was trying to settle a new seven-year budget from 2007 to 2013. Mr Blair said he would give ground on the rebate but only in return for changes to the bloated farm subsidy regime. The British No followed a day of manoeuvring during which states led by France had tried to corner Mr Blair into accepting annual cuts to the rebate or force him to wield a veto.
Britain strove to avoid accusations that it had wrecked what was already a crisis summit. The Prime Minister's official spokesman said the summit chairman, Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, had handed Mr Blair a revised offer in a private meeting but that it failed to establish the clear link Britain demanded between reforming the rebate and farm aid. He said the Government believed that other nations, including Spain, Italy and Holland, had serious reservations about the compromise. In addition, the spokesman said that Britain had been offered a unique payment mechanism on top of the existing budget and rebate system. "There was a request for additional money from the United Kingdom that is unacceptable to us," he said. The spokesman said the language in the Luxembourg compromise was "worryingly ambiguous" and put French interests above British ones. In a clear reference to President Jacques Chirac, of France, who had led resistance to the reopening of a 2002 agreement on farm subsidies, he said the wording could have been used to block any change.
Late last night Mr Juncker was tabling new proposals to try to bridge the divide. But British officials said the gulf was too wide. It's another beautiful day here in EUtopia.
#3
defended by a lonely Greek soldier full of boredom and disillusionment see his webjournal - he DID get to stand 2 hrs guard duty... :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/18/2005 11:53 Comments ||
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#4
If you want to see what people in the UK think of all this, check out these (long) pages of comments from the BBC website. I thought the BBC would doctor the comments to be more pro-EU, but the number of anti-EU comments is staggering! - and very pleasing for someone like me who is very anti-EU ;)
Also, one commenter had a good idea -
The more I learn about the inequity of the EU, the more I wonder why any country would want to join. Hey guys, come on over to the "dark side", how about a Canada-UK-US-Australian trading block?
Roy, USA
I totally agree Roy! ;)
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
06/18/2005 13:18 Comments ||
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#5
Tony - works for me.
If I could do anything to make it so, I surely would. :-D
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/18/2005 16:35 Comments ||
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#6
Well, just re-iterating the meme that there are alternatives to the 'inevitable creation of a European superstate' is a start!
Didn't Dr Rice say that the EU was a good idea? That certainly got them very confused! (great reverse psychology there, an American said it so it must be wrong, no wait, didn't she say the EU was a good idea?)
I don't think the US will offer the UK entry to NAFTA whilst we're still in the EU, but if we were out of it...oh, and don't believe the hype about this being the Chinese century.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
06/18/2005 19:19 Comments ||
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BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro (AP) - A Belgrade court on Friday found a former Serb paramilitary guilty of a 1999 massacre in Kosovo in a retrial that confirmed the original 20-year sentence handed down last year.
Notice that Carla del Ponte had no role in this trial.
Sasa Cvjetan, from the notorious Scorpions unit, was convicted of killing 14 ethnic Albanian civilians, mostly women and children, when his unit stormed the northern Kosovo town of Podujevo in March 1999. Cvjetan, 40, had received the maximum sentence under Serbian law at the time of the crime, but last year's ruling was later overturned by Serbia's Supreme Court for alleged procedural trial violations.
The retrial in Cvjetan's case - which in 2004 was seen as a key test for the Serbian judiciary to handle war crimes cases at home - lasted less than two weeks.
Notice that Carla del Ponte had no role in this trial.
After reading the final verdict, Judge Biljana Sinanovic said the most compelling evidence against Cvjetan was the fact that witnesses and survivors of the Podujevo massacre had recognized him.
Notice that Carla del Ponte had no role in this trial.
During the hearings, Cvjetan again denied he took part in the Scorpions' rampage in Podujevo that killed 14 and wounded five, claiming he was chosen to be a "scapegoat."
Thousands of ethnic Albanian civilians were killed during the conflict in Kosovo.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/18/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Nor did the ICC, ICJ, or XYZ.
The Law Enforcement approach only works for one-off, after the fact, clean-up. Doesn't scale and is not preventative.
ALOR STAR, June 17 (Bernama) -- Mohamad Hamid, the crewman who dived into the sea and escaped in a speedboat belonging to pirates to report the hijacking of his ship, the Nepline Delima, to the authorities, will receive a hero's homecoming when returns to Kota Baharu Saturday. Nepline Berhad [the shipowning company] chairman, Datuk Dr Nik M. Zain told Bernama that he would be among several people to welcome Mohamad at his family home in Kampung Biah in Kota Baharu.
He said Mohamed would also be given a letter of appreciation and an incentive for his brave deed.
In the incident on Tuesday, the RM40-million tanker carrying a load of RM12 million worth of diesel, which was on its way from Singapore to Myanmar was hijacked by armed pirates near Langkawi island. Mohamad, who managed to slip away in the pirates' speedboat proceeded to the Marine Police headquarters in Bukit Malut in Langkawi and reported the incident.
After a tense standoff with Malaysian Marine Police and commandos, the pirates, who had held the remaining 15 crew, comprising locals, Indonesians and Myanmarese for almost 12 hours, surrendered without a fight.
WASHINGTON -- A metal gate blocked the walkway to the Myanmar Embassy, so the congressman left his delivery _ a cardboard box crammed with birthday greetings for Myanmar political prisoner Aung San Suu Kyi _ on a pillar of the concrete fence. Nobody came out of the building.
"I have dealt with dictatorial regimes all of my life," Rep. Tom Lantos, the only Holocaust survivor ever to serve in Congress, said Friday. "I don't expect any warm reception from them."
Once enemies in battle, Vietnam and the United States will cooperate in the exchange of intelligence on terrorism and transnational crime, and Vietnam will send military officers for training in the United States, Prime Minister Phan Van Khai said Thursday on the eve of the first U.S. trip by a top Vietnamese Communist leader. The intelligence and military cooperation agreements will be announced when Khai visits next week, marking the highest-level visit to the United States since the Communists won the war in 1975. He will meet with President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Tuesday.
The move to forge solid military ties between Vietnam and the United States shows how far the relationship has advanced in the 10 years since President Bill Clinton established formal diplomatic relations. The trip will be a milestone, analysts said, a signal that a mature relationship based on mutual interests in security and trade is beginning to take shape. "During the war, Vietnam and the United States were opponents," Khai said during a 75-minute interview at his office in the capital, which is within walking distance of the mausoleum holding the embalmed body of Ho Chi Minh, the independence leader and North Vietnamese president during the war. "Now that 30 years have elapsed since the end of the war, it is our policy to put aside the past and look to the future and a better relationship between the two countries."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/18/2005 00:00 ||
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THREE people, one a tantric, have been charged with murder after pouring boiling oil over a four-and-a-half-year-old girl before beheading her as part of a religious sacrifice. The tantric, or person who practises black magic, and two accomplices were arrested on Wednesday in the town of Muzaffarnagar in India's northern Uttar Pradesh state, the Press Trust of India said, quoting police. The body of the girl, named Surjo, had been found in a field the previous day, the agency reported.
A police spokesman said she had been "beheaded, her fingers cut off and her hair burnt to a cinder".
The accused had apparently poured boiling oil on the girl before beheading and mutilating her, the spokesman said.
Police were looking for a woman who handed over the girl to the tantric after he told her to sacrifice a child to be cleansed spiritually. The relationship between the girl and the woman was uncertain, the police spokesman said.
See also the "cannibal" related stories on the sidebar.
Shameless plug : to witness the nightmare that South Africa has become, see the http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp website; btw, *don't* check the red photo galleries after (or before) eating...
Newcastle - Two KwaZulu-Natal girls have been left traumatised after seeing their father eat the flesh off their dead mother's face on Friday morning, said police.
Captain Tienkie van Vuuren said police were called to Thembalethu Village near Mkuze in the Tugela Ferry area about 03:00 on Friday after a 13-year-old girl ran to her neighbours for help. She said when they arrived at the house they had to force their way in the house to rescue the other girl, aged seven, who had been stabbed in the head by the father.
"Inside, police found a naked Jabulani Siphethu sitting on top of his common-law wife's body, eating the flesh from her face," said Van Vuuren. "Only the forehead was still intact. The bone was visible where the rest of the face used to be".
Siphethu was aggressive during the arrest and threatened police with the knife he was holding. He was eventually caught and taken outside. "There, he suddenly choked and became unconscious and died."
I had no idea they had a Rapid Action Battalion in South Africa.
"The seven-year-old girl was taken away by ambulance together with her older sister who had escaped unharmed," said Van Vuuren.
A post-mortem will on done on Siphethu and his common-law wife.
#1
Sickos everywhere! Justice happened though and the only thing I feel about is the dead woman, and even more for the children... how can they ever cope with this and try to lead for what passes as a normal life there? Kids always get hurt the most.
Tighter controls of border crossings between the U.S. and Mexico have led to a shortage of strawberry pickers in Oregon, leaving some of the prized berries to rot on the vines during prime picking weeks.
Earlier this week, an emergency plea for strawberry pickers was issued by the Oregon Employment Department. It's the latest trouble for an industry already coping with rising labor costs, a decline in strawberry processors and the increasing domination by California growers.
"We're losing the first picking," said Juan Diego Sanchez, a labor supervisor on a 75 acres farm outside of Woodburn. "We're behind because there's not enough people."
So pay people more and they'll come out to pick the berries. That's how capitalism works.
The optimum amount of workers is 550 to tend the field, Sanchez said. On Wednesday, he had 330.
Traditional seasonal workers from south of the border have not shown up this year, said Daniel Quiones, the migrant seasonal farm workers representative from the Oregon Employment Department. "There's just not as many people," he said. "There's fear about crossing the border and insecurity because of the Minuteman Project."
Translation: he's admitting that his industry needs illegals to survive.
The Minuteman Project involved civilian volunteers who patroled the U.S.-Mexico border this spring by ground and air, looking for illegal immigrants. Since then, the Department of Homeland Security has beefed up the border with thousands of Border Patrol agents and doubled the amount of aircraft over the international boundary.
In Oregon, farmers and labor contractors said the government needs to start up a temporary worker program.
Or you could pay your workers more.
Independent labor contractor Arnulfo Sandoval Perez told The Statesman-Journal of Salem that some strawberry farmers are losing $10,000 per day.
Which causes them to whine to gummint, instead of raising the pay and finding new workers.
And using machines to pick the tender fruit is not an option "as long as people want quality, hand-picked strawberries," Sandoval said. He also said that when the cherry season gets under way later this month, most of the strawberry pickers will opt for cherry picking because the job does not involve the bending or crouching required to pluck the vines.
Jim Ludwick, president of Oregonians for Immigration Reform, said he felt sorry for the farmers, but that the situation does not justify more immigration to the state. Instead of clamoring for the cheap labor, farmers should be lobbying Oregon legislators to remove the restrictions on children working the fields, Ludwick said."A number of years ago, those strawberries would have been picked by Oregon school children," he said.
Ohfergawdsake.
Quiones said children between the ages of 12 and 16 are allowed to work in agriculture, so long as they are accompanied by an adult. Farmers pay between 18 cents and 25 cents per pound to pick strawberries. They sell the fruit to canneries for 47 cents per pound. Veteran pickers can collect up to 100 pounds an hour, fetching an hourly rate of $20, Quiones said.
Some farmers, concerned with losing their entire harvest, have started "people sharing" with other farmers so at least part of their crop gets picked, he said. And thus the whole "cheap" labor system starts to break down.
#3
Hey when I was young kid would mow lawns for money and everything... The damned lawyers ruined it and illegal aliens now fill the kid's niche...
It was even fun to detassel corn. You a the local wanton could have some fun in the middle of fields while pretending to detassel.
Admited that berries are not tall enough to hide that kind of action and berry growers use posion gas on the fields to sterilize them so they aren't that attractive to go into...
#4
At an absolute level, this does belong on page 3. However, the implication that -- at least for the moment -- we are winning this particular battle of the WoT, the battle for control of our national borders, should keep it on page 1. Good catch, Anonymoose!
Besides, it's good for kids to earn extra money by the sweat of their brow. And in some families, to help raise the family's standard of living. A thought: why not bus in the inner city poor to replace the illegal laborors? or use the local aid recipients (lots of poor people in the countryside, too, or so I'm told). Both groups won't need to be housed, so the cost should be a wash to the growers.
#5
Supply and demand. What a concept. Start paying higher prices for the labor. The wink of the eye inaction by both parties have resulted in a virtual unlimited labor market, artificially keeping labor costs low. Hey Dems! Yeah, You! You don't have to raise minimum wage levels if you actually shut the border and control the inflow of labor. The 'natural' market pressures will take care of the issue.
Posted by: Jong Cravirong9792 ||
06/18/2005 11:35 Comments ||
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#6
I wouldn't want kids to do this kind of stoop labor. It is terribly hard on the back and can cause lots of long-term problems. California, for example, has banned the use of the short hoe in fields because of the high injury rate. An alternative would be expensive in the short term, but would pay off later with reduced fertilizer, pesticide and water use; that is, elevating the strawberry plants about 3' off the ground in long planters. This eliminates many nematode and weed problems, along with preventing soil salinization. In a way, think of it as "semi-hydroponic" farming. Stoop tending, which is quite slow, would be replaced with much faster labor. All told, it would save the farmer money in the long term.
#8
It seems the Mexican government will have to print and distribute a few more copies of their invasion instructions"Guide for the Mexican Migrant"
Someone should investigate whether this farmer has used illegal workers in the past and take appropriate action.
I worked in strawberry fields as a kid and don't remember the hard work, but did appreciate the money.
#9
I want my strawberries picked by Americans.. not a bunch of migrant illegals. I despise socialism, but lets get the meth & reefer heads out of the trailer parks there and perform community agro assistance to revalidate their welfare checks. It sounds draconic, but enough is enough! We need more illegals to pick the tomatos and chilis and berries? No, I'll pay higher if that eventually puts an end to the nonsense we face by being demographically occupied by foreigners. We created this mess, and we are the solution.
#10
Flavins: don't think in the past. I would prefer a population improved so much that they wouldn't want to do seasonal agriculture labor. Replace them with machines and change you agribusiness to make it less labor intensive. Farming is just plain nasty, dangerous work. I'd far rather there was one well-paid machine operator than 50 migrant farm workers. As was noted, there are about 8 million illegals living in the US. I will point out that the vast majority of these illegals are not economically staying put, they are climbing up the ladder. In just two generations, they will be white and blue collar workers--no different from the workers America has now. Stopping the heroin of cheap and willing labor will force agribusiness to do what it has delayed doing for decades. The market rules.
#13
But Flavins, that would mean that the DNC's base would have to get off their fat asses and actually do something for their welfare money. Can't have that!
Why not have all those on welfare (and still able to work) pick the berries and *do* *something* to earn their keep instead of sitting at home in front of the { TV | game console | booze bottle }. The fresh air might do them some good (and perhaps, just perhaps, get them to feel better about themselves.
#15
nice try moose - and I want a pony. Secure the border - should migrant workers REALLY be necessary, a bracero program can be reinstituted. I didn't work in the fields (and no, the red herring short hoe - proved you a dissembler - read "liar") but I did do yards and cars, and once I could drive, I worked at an italian restaurant doing the crap work....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/18/2005 18:38 Comments ||
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#16
Moose: good point. The fella whining about people liking "hand-picked" berries is clueless. This is an opportunity, not a problem.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/18/2005 18:40 Comments ||
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#17
What Frank G, DMFD, eLarson, Flavins, GK, trailing wife, and 3dc said
Moose you have an elitist outlook about honest work, so fu*king what if the work is hard? You get in shape when you work hard.
Like everyone else who's worked at different jobs I've worked in restaraunts, nurserys, post office, Heavy Construction overseas, mining,etc., and have been a gen. contractor for years.
Its been great experience, I wouldn't trade it for sedentary work.
BTW that, I do for free when I type on a keyboard everyday! ;)
Posted by: Red Dog ||
06/18/2005 19:51 Comments ||
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#18
your people are meanies. ima stand ready to go to workin on the 3 foot strawberry line. i will not however bent over to the nazi rule nof weight for pay, ima only work by the job or hour, itn about 23 american right now, unless it's real hot.
Mian Abdul Ghaffar, a local magistrate and civil judge, on Friday turned down a plea filed by police asking for a 14-days physical remand of the seven people who had allegedly paraded a woman naked in Chak No 41EB. The judge gave police the accused on a two-day remand instead.
"Nope! Nope! Two days is long enough! Can't even give you that without seein' the evidence myself!"
Earlier the accused told reporters that they were not ashamed on their act as they had squared the balance because the victim girl's brother had an affair with Muhammad Yousaf's wife, the main attacker.
I suppose I'm too Western. To me, it would have made more sense to parade him naked. But then, he was probably armed and dangerous...
People of the area named told reporters the accused belonged to Kumhar family which was in majority in Chak No 41EB.
"Yep. They been inbreeding for years now. They're kinda Upper Paleolithic, y'know..."
They claimed that Muhammad Yousaf's wife was running affairs with a number of men and 20-year-old Rehmat Ali was one of them.
In that case, maybe they should have paraded all the fellows. Or maybe the round-heeled wife...
They claimed the accused had allegedly chopped off a woman's nose in the village a few weeks ago but no case was filed against them.
"It was just some woman. What's she need a nose for?"
They added that had the police arrested the accused after the first incident the second one would not have happened.
For a couple days, at least...
Eighteen-year-old Shaheen, whom the accused had allegedly paraded naked in the village, told reporters that she had been a target of the savagery for 20 minutes, quite a handsome time for villagers to save her only if they had moved. She said she begged for mercy in the name of god and Holy Prophet (PBUH) but her attackers did not let her wear her clothes.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/18/2005 00:07 ||
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#7
i find reading Chaucer's medieval English helps at times with Muckie Wuckies use of ahem English. Though i find Chaucer in better control of his spelling. Mucky you need a spill chucker.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
06/18/2005 23:16 Comments ||
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RBer's may remember a post from last year where a retired USAF colonel announced he had found 'increased levels of radiation' off Tybee Island, GA, where a Mk15 bomb was lost after the B-47 carrying it hit an F-86 that was playing tag. The colonel raised such a s*itstorm (stating, for instance, that all the fresh water on the east coast would be irreversibly contaminated if it went off)that the USAF was pushed into looking again. The results are as follows...
SAVANNAH, Ga. The first government search in decades for a nuclear bomb lost off the Georgia (search) coast in 1958 found no trace of the sunken weapon, the Air Force said in a report Friday. The report, released nine months after scientists tested radiation levels off Tybee Island (search), concluded the 7,600-pound bomb cannot explode and should be left at sea. "We still think it's irretrievably lost. We don't know where to look for it," Dr. Billy Mullins, an Air Force (search) nuclear weapons adviser who led the search, told a news conference.
A damaged B-47 bomber jettisoned the Mark-15 nuke into a sound about 15 miles from Savannah after colliding with a fighter jet during a training flight. The military never recovered the bomb and gave up searching until last year, when a retired Air Force pilot claimed his private search team had detected unusually high radiation levels in the sound. Government scientists investigated, taking radiation readings and soil samples Sept. 30 from water in an area the size of four football fields. The report said varying radiation levels were observed, but they were from natural elements in the sediment on the sea floor. "The best course of action in this matter is to not continue to search for it and to leave the property in place," said the report by the Air Force Nuclear Weapons and Counterproliferation Agency.
The Air Force has said the bomb contains uranium and about 400 pounds of conventional explosives, though it lacks the plutonium capsule needed to trigger a nuclear blast. The amount of uranium was undisclosed. In 2001, the Air Force declared the bomb "irretrievably lost" and estimated it lies buried beneath 8 to 40 feet of water and 5 to 15 feet of mud and sand. The report issued Friday by the Air Force Nuclear Weapons and Counterproliferation Agency said dropping the search and leaving the bomb was "the best course of action."
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/18/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
In other news, General Francisco Franco's condition was reported as "stable"...
Posted by: Fred ||
06/18/2005 0:36 Comments ||
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#3
The highly enriched uranium (HEU) in this bomb is not radioactive enough to produce detectably elevated radiation rates in a large body of water. Contrary to popular belief, fissionable meterials, HEU and Plutonium, are not in and of themselves intensely radioactice in comparison with fission products that are produced in a fission reaction, something that clearly hasn't happened here.
Seawater itself contains varying amounts of radioactive trace elements, including natural uranium and thorium. If the HEU has leaked, it would probably be easier to detect it chemically.
#4
To further illustrate the absurdity of the retired Colonel's contention, seawater is about 3 ppb (parts per billion) uranium. Natural uranium is .70% U-235, the fissionable isotope concentrated to 80% or more in weapons grade HEU. This means that a billion tons of seawater will contain 3 tons of natual uranium and 400 pounds or so of U-235, enough for ten or more atomic bombs. A body of water just 10 feet deep would have to cover only 150 square miles to contain a billion tons of seawater. If it were 100 feet deep, the required area would be just 15 square miles. The ocean contains roughly 500 million cubic miles of seawater, each with a mass of approximately 3.5 billion tons.
Bottom line, there are 35 million tons of U-235 dissolved in the world's oceans.
Beyond that, U-235 would provide only a small fraction of the total radioactivity, measured in curies, that could be found in a given volume of seawater. Thorium, which is nearly as radioactive as natural uranium, is typically 3 times as abundant and other radioactive elements are found in trace amounts, including plutonium (.02 ppb).
#5
Oh, and on the plus side, it is only one of about 250 or so nuclear weapons that are currently missing. Personally, I think they should check under the sofa cushions.
BTW, during the Cold War, Kremlin inspired pop-culturists liked to represent nuclear control as a hair trigger situation run by the usual stupid and socially inferior types. If this were true, why are we still here?
#10
What's the use? Hip comedians and cow-college lefties have pronounced all nuclear technology "deadly" if not "murderous," and that's all these fools need.
The anti-nuclear movement was entirely about giving the USSR an advantage in Cold War strategy, but it eventually took on a life of its own as a sacred tenet of the media cult.
Read Marshal McLuhan sometime, eco-wackies. The media don't work for the Reds these days, it's the other way around.
#11
Today, of course, US nuclear weapons are the ultimate barrier to Iran's plans to terrorize the world into submission. For the mullahs and their media symps, scare stories about nuke accidents will help mitigate this.
#12
Keep in mind, Rantburgeoisie, that media-slaves neither "believe" nor "disbelieve" the propaganda they allow themselves to absorb.
They adopt a position simply because it is perceived to enhance conformity to the media culture, without reference to such arcane concepts as "truth" "falsehood" or "consequences."
#13
Yeah, but what if Al-Zark finds it? Huh? Then he could spirit it up the Potomac and ... maybe I'll write a book....
Posted by: Bobby ||
06/18/2005 12:15 Comments ||
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#14
Hey Anonymoose -
I had the honor and privlege of serving in the Strategic Air Command during the Cold War, and part of my job - every day - was the care and feeding of nuclear weapons. As part of our training, we got a little bit of information about the semi-legendary 'missing nukes' we'd all heard about from the MSM and the protesters and their assorted friends.
We were told that the US had lost - i.e; destroyed in accidents or physically misplaced - up to that point 29 nuclear weapons. (It later became 30 - the Titan II accident at Damascus, AR in 1980 accounting for that one.) Of those, IIRC 7 or 8 of them were inert weapons, that is, no fissile material was in the weapons at the time. In that condition, they were better doorstops than nuclear weapons. And please allow me to point out that of those 30 weapons, TWENTY-SEVEN were physically destroyed in the accident or scrapped afterwards. That leaves three out there somewhere - the Tybee Island weapon, and 2 USN weapons that are at the far bottom of the Pacific.
Although ALL of those accidents - with the notable exception of the Titan II accident - were classified at the time, they are no longer so.
So please, do me a favor - account for the other 90% or so of the 250 'missing' weapons. I have a feeling that even if you can, they're going to have the letters 'CCCP' on them. The Soviets left at least two missile subs on the bottom, and God alone knows what kind of accidents THEY had.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/18/2005 13:39 Comments ||
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#15
Thanks, Mike.
#13 Bobby
Perhaps the Air Force did find it and they have the place staked out just waiting for Zark or his agents to show up.
#16
We might want to start matching diving school enrollments and salvage gear purchases against lists of known terrorists, ANSWER members, and Michael Moore supporters.
#21
Bobby - Do you need the Admiral Ackbar image to go with the "It's a trap!" quote? Heh.
Just remember the Clancy formula of focusing on 5 or 6 key individuals, for character development and reader symp / identification - must have honorable vulnerabilities or be pure evil, run subplots in parallel, converge in big splash.
#22
Yes, indeed, most of the 250 or so were Russian. The biggest losses are submarine down. You start with the initial number of missiles, then *multiply* by the number of MIRVs on each. It adds up in a hurry. 92 weapons are known to have been lost at sea, but this is deceptive, as it includes both single nuke weapons and MIRV'ed weapons. Tactical weapons are also included, though the US sometimes classifies inert training weapons as nukes and their loss is considered a "Broken Arrow", even if they're made of concrete. The US doesn't make it a habit of losing them. Again, the Russians win, because they have fired tactical weapons that don't go off, and they can't find them afterwards.
#23
ima not too worried about the lost 240, the martian secret service took most of 'em back in '74. i saw a lot of things during that time. i can speak too much about. Unless maybe somebody will come up nwith some steps for my trailer house
Soviet Cold War submarine losses, again from Global Security:The Soviet Navy lost at least five submarines during the Cold War, with another being scuttled at sea following a reactor accident. Since the end of the Cold War, the Russian Navy has lost one submarine.
K-129, a Golf-I class ballistic missile submarine, sank in March or April of 1968 in the northern Pacific Ocean (1390 kms northwest of Oahu harbor). The collapse of the hull was detected by the American SOSUS acoustic system, and in July 1974 parts of the submarine were recovered by US intelligence.
K-27, a November class nuclear submarine, experienced a reactor problem which released radiation contaminating the entire submarine on 24 May 1968. It was finally scuttled (deliberately sunk) in the Kara Sea in 1981.
K-8, a November class nuclear submarine, sank on 08 April 1970 in the Bay of Biscay and 52 people perished [the accident was kept secret till 1991].
K-219, a Yankee class strategic nuclear submarine, sank off Bermuda with 16 ballistic missiles on board on 06 October 1986. Four crewmen were killed. It is rumoured that the fire on the submarine broke out due to collision with a US submarine.
K-429, a Charlie I class submarine, sank on 23 June 1983 in the Savannaya Bay in the Bering Sea. The boat was raised and returned to service. Unluckily, she sank again alongside the jetty on 13 September 1985. The incident led to the loss 16 lives and the imprisonment of the submarine commander.
K-278 (Komsomolets), a Mike class nuclear submarine with a titanium hull, sank on 07 April 1989 south of the Bear island in the Norwegian Sea. A total of 41 crewmen, including the commander, were killed.
K-141 (Kursk), an Oscar II type 949 SSGN) commissioned in 1995, sank on 12 August 2000 in the Barents Sea, presumably due to two explosions in the torpedo tubes.
Of the vessels not raised or salvaged, only K-129 and K-219 carried nuclear missiles, 3 and 16 respectively. K-129's R-13 missiles definitely had single warheads.
K-219's were of the R-27U mirved with 3 warheads each for a total of 48.
The other lost subs may have carried small numbers of nuclear torpedoes, almost certainly fewer than 5 each, and obviously each with just one warhead.
#25
"92 weapons are known to have been lost at sea, but this is deceptive, as it includes both single nuke weapons and MIRV'ed weapons."
It does? Weapons are not mirv'ed, missiles are. Do you mean 92 weapons (warheads) or 92 missiles? If "weapons" means "warheads", this is not deceptive, since the count is final. If it means "missiles," say so. You are inviting a false conclusion from the uninformed, double multiplication of the mirv count.
I'm not surprised. Anti-nukers are pathological liars, always have been. I remember a Greenpeace report in the 80s ("Chernobyls at Sea") that listed every submarine sinking since World War 2 as a "nuclear accident" even though the great majority had neither nuclear power nor nuclear weapons.
#26
(page 10)Aleksandr Lebed, the former Secretary of the Soviet Security Council: while still operating in his capacity as Secretary of the Russian Security Council, he had conducted a study of the Russian military accounting for its nuclear weapons, specifically suitcase-sized nuclear devices, and had found that the military had lost track of approximately 84 suitcase-sized nuclear bombs, any one of which could kill up to 100,000 people with a capacity of 1 kiloton. In the U.S. television interview subsequent to that meeting, aired on September 7, General Lebed said he now believes the number of missing nuclear weapons to be more than 100...Now, Lebed's allegations have been vehemently denied by the Russian Government... So, a few here and a few there; after a while they add up.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday prodded Israel to curb its military sales to China while acknowledging the allies have had "very difficult" talks on the matter. In her first full-fledged Washington news conference since taking over as chief US diplomat in January, Rice reiterated the "rising concern here about military modernization in China." But on the eve of a Middle East trip, she gave no sign of progress in efforts to rein in Israel's transfer of military equipment and technology to China which prompted the Pentagon to restrict sales to Israel. "We have had some very difficult discussions with the Israelis about this," Rice said. "And I think they understand now the seriousness of the matter and we'll continue to have those discussions." She said the goal of the world community was to integrate China as a positive force but "it is also entirely appropriate to be concerned that that happen before there is a major military escalation of China's capability."
"And so Israel has a responsibility to be sensitive to that, particularly given the close defense cooperation between Israel and the United States," Rice said. Rice reiterated "concerns" over the arms sales to Beijing and said "I would hope that our Israeli friends would understand that the United States, of course, has ... primary responsibility for defending in the Pacific." But she did not say whether she planned to take up the matter with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and other Israeli officials when she is in Jerusalem this weekend.
The Israelis have a choice, and they better make the right one.
Some officials and press in Israel were speaking of a crisis in relations with their main international patron. But their disquiet was mixed with calls for the Sharon government to show some independence. The Pentagon has confirmed imposing some restriction on arms sales and technology transfers to Israel but said Wednesday they were focused on the Joint Strike Fighter program. "It's not a uniform freeze but it's a case-by-case basis," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman.
The US concerns are reported to center on an Israeli deal to upgrade Harpy Killer drones that it sold to China. Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported this week that Washington was demanding Israel provide details of more than 60 percent of recent security deals with China and its arms export trade in general.
#1
I sell prods, Dr Rice. Really effective ones, guaranteed to get that certain someone's attention and hold it - for at least 5 minutes. Think of it as being spellbound. Trust me, 775,000 volts will do wonders in adjusting "recalcitrant" attitudes. For you, Dr Rice, I'll cut a special deal. Drop by my site and leave me a note. Free shipping and a money-back guarantee.
#2
May need industrial strength prods to remove that Harpy Killer drones look.
Posted by: Captain America ||
06/18/2005 2:38 Comments ||
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#3
Well, industrial-grade cattle prods could really improve my social live, interaction with others, and possibly sexual activity (if it can paralyze a dog-sized-or-above mammal just long enough)! Where's your site? Don't be afraid of the shameless plug.
#6
From StrategyPage: June 17, 2005: Israel has agreed to keep the United States informed of all arms sales to China. This includes âdual useâ technology (like electronics that can be used for military, as well as civilian, purposes.) Israel has long been suspected of playing fast and loose with selling military gear containing American technology. Israel has been allowed to license this technology to make their own weapons. But to sell Israeli weapons containing this American tech, they needed permission from the United States. The weapon sale that really got the United States steamed was the Chinese purchase of the Israeli Harpy anti-radar system. The Harpy is a small, pilotless, propeller driven aircraft that can stay in the air for six hours, travel as far as 500 kilometers, and search for enemy radars, and destroy them. Harpy weighs 300 pounds, and carries a 40 pound warhead. Israel has already sold Harpy to India, South Korea and Turkey. The United States feared that China would use the electronics, that allow Harpy to find and attack targets, to develop a more powerful version that could, for example, go after American AWACS aircraft. The Harpy technology could also be used to improve Chinese UAVs in general. The Chinese are notorious for taking components of foreign weapons they have bought, and incorporating these parts in new, more powerful weapons. Sometimes the Chinese have permission to use this foreign technology, sometimes they donât. The United States cannot buy, or use, the Harpy because, technically, it is a ground launched cruise missile with a range that violates the SALT I treaty. The U.S. could buy air or sea launched versions of Harpy and not violate SALT I.
Posted by: ed ||
06/18/2005 11:23 Comments ||
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#7
We're talking about spilled milk and a whole bunch of milk at that. How are "warnings" going to rectify the situation or make consequences be felt? Israel got its $ from China and China got the tech it needs to fight a better war against the US and the USA has been screwed every which way by its "good" trading partner and by its "good" ally.
I say cut off all aid and freebie loans to Israel for 6 months. And if Israel has not figured out a way to compromise the tech it sold to China, then cut off Israel's aid permanently. Maybe Israel is looking for a new deep pockets benefactor - I'm sure China will love funding Israel to the tune it has come to expect from Uncle Sam (NOT).
As for the #5 post with article links - Rice is telling Israel what it needs to hear. a. The world is not stupid about ye old trick of creating facts on the ground. It won't work and it makes Israel look cheezy. b. Israel needs to accept the fact that all nations, including the USA, want the 2 state nation formula (Israel and Palestine)to be set up. It may not seem fair to some Israelis, particularly the settlers and the Likud Party) and it may seem risky security wise, but that's what is going to happen and Israel better get with the program or it will risk losing the support of its most valuable ally, the USA. I don't think it can count on its new found pal,China, covering its back for longer than 2 seconds. Being at war 24/7 is nuts for Israel. At least the 2 nation state offers hope. The Palestinians will continue to blow themselves up until they get their own nation and one that is workable. Giving the Palestinians a good start with $3 Billion aid to build a decent infastructure is the best way to help the Palestinian state get off to a decent start so Palestinians have a future. And it helps Israel if the Palestinians are happy with their apportionment. Btw, the $3 Billion aid package is being put together by Western nations, not just the USA. That's what Israel gets from the USA each year so there's no need to view this as back-stabbing by the USA.
US will stick by Israel for the same reasons you did so far.
(a) We are the only ally you have in ME.
(b) We are the sorce of most of the truly innovative high tech you have.
The question is, should Israel stick with US, who is always trying to make Arab friends at our expence and/or treats Israel as a nation of techno-serfs?
#9
US will stick by Israel for the same reasons you did so far.
(a) We are the only ally you have in ME.
(b) We are the sorce of most of the truly innovative high tech you have.
a) it could be said that the reason America doesn't have better alliance with ME Arab countries is BECAUSE the USA is Israel's ally. The USA does not need Israel, but Israel needs the USA.
b) Israeli engineers are not uniquely clever about developing defense technology. If the USA chose to "grow" its own defense engineering talents stateside by doling out to private enterprise the same US taxpayer investments that we give Israel, I have no doubt that our defense industry could deliver. But without US tax investment, would Israeli engineers be as "inspired" or successful?
The question is, should Israel stick with US, who is always trying to make Arab friends at our expence and/or treats Israel as a nation of techno-serfs?
There's some saying about alliances - I forget the exact wording - but it goes something like this: there are no long lived alliances, only countries looking out for their own interests.
Maybe that's what Israel is doing cozy-ing up with the future super power, China, I don't think Israel needed the $.
Then maybe the USA needs to look out for its own interests, which is controlling world oil resources - one can't run factories, planes, cars on simpering rhetoric about "friendships" and Arab states do seem to have endless supplies of "black gold." Hmmm....
I think Israel was once upon a time paired up with communist Soviet Union, wasn't it - maybe communist/socialist mindsets are a more natural fit with its own left wing under pinnings.
If Israel doesn't like to be told what to do by its rich aunt, then by all means, Israel should get off our taxpayer tit and be "independent" and be "self-reliant" and we'll see how long Israel survives holding hands with China.
#11
Thotch, Israel will manage with or without American aid -- as it has in the past. You fail to understand that for Israel this is an existential question; that is to say, whether or not Israel will exist. And the moment Israel ceases to exist, your beloved Palestinians and their oil-rich Arab masters will engineer a massacre that will pile Jewish bodies as high as ever the Nazis did. There are 4 million Jewish Israelis, and the Arab world has been working toward their erasure -- not to chase them out, or to rule over them and benefit by their labours -- but to make them cease to exist.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But, understand that were your recommendations followed, it would mean regional genocide. Is that indeed what you want, or would you like to rethink your position?
#13
trailing wife, you contradict yourself on a few points and also you make assumptions that are incorrect.
You say that Israel could survive without the USA as its benefactor but on the otherhand you imply that if the USA withdrew its aid, it would mean the end of Israel and the blood of 4 Million Israeli deaths would be on America's hands.
Secondly you assume I'm an Arabist and that I'm looking out for "my precious" Palestinians.
Please understand that I'm an American first and foremost and I am loyal only to America. I feel no loyalties to any other nation including Israel. I am not religious whatsoever, so I have no attachment to the Holy Land - it means nothing to me - the Old Testament peoples who exist in the Middle East are simply nations to me.
I say that the 2 separate states (Israel and Palestine ) will happen because it will. That's the way many Israeli politicians thought it should be as well. This process will happen easily or with great difficulty, but make no mistake, it's inevitable. For Sharon and the settlers to try to put obstacles in the way only delays the process and causes ill-will for Israelis in the long run. Rice is giving Israeli leadership some common sense advice.
What choices Israeli leadership make in the way Israel conducts itself as a friend to the USA or whether it back-stabs the USA will determine future support. Israel has control of its own future, and any blood that is spilled, will be a result of Israeli foresight or lack thereof.
And may I remind you that if Arab states are a grave threat to Israel, then China represents America's grave threat. Israel knowingly gave valuable aid to an enemy that may use the technology against our American soldiers in the not too distant future. I believe Israel should suffer some serious consequences for its selfish actions of cozying up to the emerging Super Power on the horizon, significantly more than a tsk, tsk from Rice.
The WWII Holocaust has been used over and over again by Israel to get what she wants from America. Now America faces dangers on many sides, and it's time Israel got over its self-delusion that only her nation is fighting for her existence. Israel brings a lot of bad baggage with it and being its friend causes quite a burden for America. I think it's time that Israel realizes and appreciates what a good friend America has been. And if Israel can't do so and wants to play games with its loyal benefactor, then Israelis should only hold their leadership to blame for any dire consequences they may suffer.
#14
If Israel doesn't think Uncle Sam is a worthwhile friend to have, then it should seek alliances elsewhere. Just stop taking our money and stabbing us in the back. Everybody sells weapons to the Arabs. The difference when Uncle Sam sells it is that if Arabs attack Israel, we won't send the Arabs spare parts.
It is in fact in Israel's interest for us to sell weapons to the Arabs. Do you think the French or the Germans would refrain from resupplying the Arabs if Israel were attacked? Another difference between the US selling to the Arabs and Israel selling to China is this - the Arabs can't tie their own shoelaces, and certainly can't reverse engineer the technology - they are completely reliant on Uncle Sam for parts and replacements, whereas the Chinese will gin up their own versions of the stuff and use them to attack Uncle Sam.
I can accept that the USS Liberty incident was an accident. Israel's sales to China, at a time when even the Euros won't do it, are simply beyond the pale. These sales do not make Israel an enemy. But they do mean that Israel has descended to France's level. And we don't sent $2b a year to France - or exercise our veto power at the UN in France's behalf.
Israel needs to grow up and figure out who its friends are. If it thinks that China can both provide Israel a nuclear umbrella and become its new sugar daddy, it is welcome to do so. Uncle Sam can do a world of good to his relations with the Muslim world by cutting Israel off, militarily and financially.
#15
I can accept that the USS Liberty incident was an accident. Israel's sales to China, at a time when even the Euros won't do it, are simply beyond the pale.
:)
It would be like the US selling AWACS to the Magic Kingdom.
#16
Actually, if the US stopped selling weaponry to Israel, its market in the Muslim world would expand in a big way. Why are countries like Malaysia and Indonesia jaundiced against Uncle Sam? Because we support Israel. The fact is that if we stopped selling arms to Israel *and* ended financial aid, Israel would have to come up with its own weaponry from scratch (since neither the Euros nor the Russians will sell anything sensitive to them) and close the financial aid gap, which constitutes close to 20% of Israel's military budget. Without American, European or Russian jets, how is Israel going to retain its air supremacy in the Middle East?
#17
And if we stopped selling arms to Israel we would feel oh so very much better for being in real politic and extra triple PC. I dig. It's the big picture, LOL!
#18
Shipman: It would be like the US selling AWACS to the Magic Kingdom.
We fly Saudi Arabia's AWACS planes. The average Saudi has trouble mastering the remote control on a VCR. Do you really think Uncle Sam would permit Saudi Arabia to use these planes to attack Israel? What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from the American in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.
#25
Shipman: And if we stopped selling arms to Israel we would feel oh so very much better for being in real politic and extra triple PC. I dig. It's the big picture, LOL!
It's got nothing to do with PC and everything to do with being able to compete for the same contracts that we've missed out on because we support Israel. It wouldn't bother me if Muslims were herded into a giant mass grave. But since we're not in that mode yet, we might as well do business with them, since the Israelis are helping the Chinese kill Americans with greater efficiency. If Israel is going to sell to China anything it wants, maybe Uncle Sam should start selling to Muslim terrorist groups (who are angry with Uncle Sam primarily for its support for Israel) and the Muslim world any non-nuclear weaponry they want.
#26
Shipman: Maybe if the US stops whoring F-15s to the Saudi entity? LOL Jeez.
We sell to the Saudis gold-plated toys that they can't use. Maybe if they mastered tying their shoelaces first. Besides, why blame us? The Euros will sell to the Arabs anything they want, but they won't sell the same equipment to Israel, subsidize Israel to the tune of $2b a year or support Israel at the UN.
#27
ZF: What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from the American in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.
That should have read: What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from American Muslims or Arab Americans in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests.
#29
What I find contemptible about guys like Shipman is that they're really no different from American Muslims or Arab Americans in their contempt for American national interests - it's all about their sectarian interests
#30
Perhaps a few moments of cheap Hooch. However Ima willing to overlook bad manners. Especially since ZF is evidently a god damn yankee mother fucker.
#31
TG2372: The WWII Holocaust has been used over and over again by Israel to get what she wants from America.
Americans did not carry out the Holocaust and are certainly not obligated to make amends. Do you think that if Arabs had wiped out Judaism, that any Muslims would even have felt guilty about it, let alone try to make amends? No - they would have designated a public holiday specifically to celebrate the occasion - a day for handing out candy.
Don't get me wrong - I think Israel not only has the right to exist, the Palestinians really belong in Egypt or Jordan. But when Israel helps a nuclear-armed and potentially the second most powerful country (China) in the world fight Uncle Sam, my sentimental attachments to Israel start to fray.
But when Israel helps a nuclear-armed and potentially the second most powerful country (China) in the world fight Uncle Sam, my sentimental attachments to Israel start to fray.
Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)
#34
gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)
Are Arrow anti-ballistic missiles more sophisticated than the ones Uncle Sam will be selling to India? Note this is a completely separate issue from Israeli sales to China - where Uncle Sam will not sell to the Chinese at all. If the Pentagon is strong-arming Israel in situations where US companies are competing with Israeli ones, then someone in DC needs to have his knuckles rapped - the Pentagon is in charge of national security, not industrial policy. But the China issue stands on its own.
#35
gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)
Note also that Uncle Sam will sell F-16's but not F-15's to India, which tells me that we are selling them relatively old technology.
#36
gromguru: Or Zhang, the current administration also objects to Israel's MI sells to India and Singapur (funny thing, a year, or so, ago USA objected to Israel's selling Arrow anti-balistic missiles to India. Now, USA negotiating with India a sale of guess that?)
Note that Singapore isn't a completely reliable ally. We may want to reassess our commitment to supplying it with F-35's, given its close links to China. My feeling is that any technology we supply to Singapore has a serious chance of leaking to China, given that Singapore has an ethnic Chinese majority of 70% that is being kept up with massive Chinese immigration made up mostly of technical personnel.
#37
The US has no business funding another nation's weapons development (in the case of Arrow, at least $2 billion worth). If it is important enough for a nation to have a weapons system, let them either develop it themselves (including the critical subsystems) or buy/contract for it. Then the US will have no right to deny transfer of American tech to an enemy, and there will only be political fallout of arming America's (potential) enemies.
Posted by: ed ||
06/18/2005 22:58 Comments ||
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#38
By all means drop Israel in preference for weapons contracts to Muslim countries. But don't complain when those same weapons end up being quietly shared with terrorists to use against American troops. Or when fungible funds are used for more madrassahs and training camps around the world.
Oh, and Thotch, I wasn't talking about the money America gives to Israel. I was talking about political/diplomatic support. Which has historically been given freely by the U.S. because both Dems and Republicans disagree with the world's assessment that everything is the fault of those evil Joos, who should be forced to kneel and present their necks for the axe.
Nor did I mention the Holocaust to wring concessions from any of you, but to explain the situation. A significant number of Israelis have lived through events where the choice was Israel or death, where even many of those who chose Israel died along the way. Certainly that was my father's experience, as a result of emigrating in the 1930s. About the same number experienced themselves, or are descended from those who happened to survive the slaughter when there was no place to go, like a few of my mother's cousins. These experiences shaped the culture of Israel. "Never again" is not a slogan about the Holocaust, but a promise to the world. Under no circumstances, standing alone against the whole world if necessary, will the Jews of Israel permit the final safe haven to be destroyed. You don't like how Israel is handling things? Then offer them a better deal instead of trying to force them to do things that will endanger their survival -- and before you condemn them, do make sure they aren't setting things up to help the U.S. when the time comes with China. Are you quite, quite certain they haven't somehow enabled what they are selling to be disabled if used against the wrong foe? Or to be easily traced by someone (like the U.S.) with sophisticated tracer thingies?
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Shipman, you may be a lapsed Baptist, but in my opinion you are a fully paid up mensch.
#39
TW: But don't complain when those same weapons end up being quietly shared with terrorists to use against American troops.
Terrorists don't use MLRS's, 155mm artillery, jet fighters, destroyers or tanks. Their non-military grade weaponry include box cutters, fertilizer, blasting caps and stolen cars. Terrorists' military grade stuff (including plastic explosives, RPG's and AK's) are purchased from places like China or Russia and cost millions rather than billions of dollars.
Selling big ticket conventional weapons to Muslim countries helps soak up money they could otherwise direct towards sponsoring terrorist groups. Having Uncle Sam sell it instead of the Europeans helps the US control the kind of conflicts in which Muslim countries can get embroiled. India has traditionally been leery of buying US weaponry for this very reason - because it involves a US veto on any Indian foreign policy position that involves going to war. Note that Arab countries that have bought US weapons haven't been in a shooting war with Israel, because they can't sustain one - they know Uncle Sam won't resupply them.
#40
TW: You don't like how Israel is handling things? Then offer them a better deal instead of trying to force them to do things that will endanger their survival -- and before you condemn them, do make sure they aren't setting things up to help the U.S. when the time comes with China. Are you quite, quite certain they haven't somehow enabled what they are selling to be disabled if used against the wrong foe? Or to be easily traced by someone (like the U.S.) with sophisticated tracer thingies?
We are offering them a pretty good deal. We rescued them during the Yom Kippur War by rushing supplies there and almost went to war with Russia. We are supplying them technology that nobody else will. Can Israel really sustain its military industry without American transfers of technology? Can Israel retain its air supremacy if the US stops selling them its top-of-the-line jet fighters? Can Israel remain economically viable if we slap the same trade restrictions on it that other countries have for its treatment* of the Palestinians?
* I think Israel coddles the Pallies. But the reality is that we could do a lot more business, military and civilian, with Muslim countries, if we slapped Israel around like the rest of the world.
I know Israelis think that the rest of the world is anti-Semitic. But I think their political positions have nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with making deals. If Jews were 1 billion and Muslims were 6 million, you'd see everyone lining up on Israel's side. In the real world, most people side with the top dog, not the underdog.
#41
How many Saudis are currently in Iraq, Zhang Fei? What percent of the Saudi armed forces are radical Islamists? What was the weapon used to attack the Twin Towers, box cutter or jet planes? And why are we concerned that Pakistan might give nukes to Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups? The Arab countries that buy weapons from America haven't been in a shooting war with Israel because they keep losing. But wasn't there a bit of a scandal when the Israelis intercepted a ship full of weapons for the Palestinians, much more sophisticated than they'd had heretofor ... where on earth did that come from?
#42
TW: How many Saudis are currently in Iraq, Zhang Fei? What percent of the Saudi armed forces are radical Islamists? What was the weapon used to attack the Twin Towers, box cutter or jet planes? And why are we concerned that Pakistan might give nukes to Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups? The Arab countries that buy weapons from America haven't been in a shooting war with Israel because they keep losing. But wasn't there a bit of a scandal when the Israelis intercepted a ship full of weapons for the Palestinians, much more sophisticated than they'd had heretofor ... where on earth did that come from?
Saudis are using F-15's to attack American troops in Iraq? The fact is that every F-15 they buy is less money to support terrorists - whether they are anti-American or anti-Israeli terrorists. The jet planes they used on 9/11 weren't even Saudi planes - they were planes owned by American airlines.
Again - back to the point - American weaponry sales to Muslim countries endanger neither the US nor Israel. Israel's sale of weaponry to China does endanger the US, since only Russia is selling (much lower tech) weaponry to China. Muslims can and do buy from the Euros and the Russians (not to mention the Chinese, in the area of ballistic missiles).
Israel likes to flatter itself that its superior military might is what has kept Arab countries from overrunning it. The reality is that post-Yom Kippur in 1973, when the US almost fought a nuclear war with the Soviets over Israel, Arabs have realized that even if they overrun Israel, Uncle Sam will take the ball away from them just as Lucy keeps on taking the ball away from Charlie Brown. And their acquisition of American weaponry has hamstrung them, because Uncle Sam will not resupply them if they attack Israel.
The Pakistani nukes came from North Korea and China. We have embargoed Pakistan for the past decade. The "advanced" weaponry intercepted came from the Iranians who may have bought it either from the Russians or the Chinese.
Again, just about nothing that Uncle Sam has sold to Muslim countries is really usable by terrorists.
#3
"The steady stream of these disclosures shows the pressing need for regulation of the industry both in terms of limitation in the amount of personal information that companies collect and also liability when these kinds of disclosures occur," Sobel said.
Spoken in true lawyer speak. That is what we need. More government rules.
It is not like we already must kowtow just to abide by the Patriot Act in banking, this mook wants more rules. You can't even, under the PA rules take a check from a deadbeat business cusomer, haul it over to his bank and cash it.
I know this will irritate more than a few in Rantburg, allowing me to vent my frustration when I talk to an 'IT' guy about maybe he ought to hedge his bets some in the areas of servers and no be so cocksure his brand new Win2003 server won't hose him at some point, and I will mention it only once in this thread, but gee, I wonder what kind of script it was.
#5
As someone that works in the credit card processing industry, let me point out that virtually every instance of this sort of thing involves someone working for the company helping them get the information. I don't care how good your security is, if someone's using inside information, it can be extremely hard to stop.
#8
As SB points out - most breaches are inside jobs.
The "lost tapes" (tapes, lol!), FedEx was it?, a few weeks ago was the dumbest of the lot, so far: the data wasn't encrypted. That's just so phreaking easy and fundamental that heads should roll, without a doubt.
There is no absolute fix for bad people on the inside of the security fences. It's too bad that commercial firms can't require job applicants for the potential "insider" jobs to sign a waiver allowing them to be summarily shot in the head if it is discovered they've imperiled the millions of people who depend upon them being honest. I wouldn't miss 'em.
3dc - Private / VPN / PPTP / etc "networks" are so easy to establish, with any level of encryption you desire, over the net that a separate net, a huge expense, seems unnecessary. I could be wrong, of course - I've never had a competent Tiger Team try to break into a 1024 (or higher) bit encrypted PPTP session by smurfing, spoofing, etc.
#9
3DC, the reason why that doesn't happen is because merchants demand to be able to process through the internet. Restricting credit card transactions to a 'banknet' kills the entire internet economy. Even smaller storefronts now are buying credit card machines that instead of dialing into our secure host, instead use their store's internet connection to reach the host. Merchants also like to be able to see their transaction and deposit information online as well.
So as long as the merchants demand this capability, those sorts of vulnerabilities are going to exist.
The estranged wife of former Bangladesh dictator Hussain Mohammad Ershad, arrested earlier this month on charges including threatening to kill her husband, remained behind bars yesterday after a fresh allegation of money laundering was filed against her. "She was granted bail on Thursday but when I went to the jail with the court order I was told there was another charge of money laundering against her," Sayed Quamrujjaman Mahbub, her lawyer, told AFP. Money laundering is a non-bailable offence in Bangladesh.
Bidisha, 38, has been in police custody since June 4 after the one-time military strongman, now 77, lodged complaints with police. In addition to the money laundering charge, she is accused of theft, criminal damage, forgery, bigamy, and threats to kill, said another member of her legal team, Sarah Hossen. Two days after Bidisha's arrest, her husband left the country telling reporters she was a bigamist. He said he believed she was still married to her former husband Peter Wilson, of Britain, because she named him as her spouse in a 2002 passport application.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/18/2005 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro (AP) - A Belgrade court on Friday found a former Serb paramilitary guilty of a 1999 massacre in Kosovo in a retrial that confirmed the original 20-year sentence handed down last year.
Mian Abdul Ghaffar, a local magistrate and civil judge, on Friday turned down a plea filed by police asking for a 14-days physical remand of the seven people who had allegedly paraded a woman naked in Chak No 41EB. The judge gave police the accused on a two-day remand instead. 
SAVANNAH, Ga. The first government search in decades for a nuclear bomb lost off the Georgia (search) coast in 1958 found no trace of the sunken weapon, the Air Force said in a report Friday. The report, released nine months after scientists tested radiation levels off Tybee Island (search), concluded the 7,600-pound bomb cannot explode and should be left at sea. "We still think it's irretrievably lost. We don't know where to look for it," Dr. Billy Mullins, an Air Force (search) nuclear weapons adviser who led the search, told a news conference.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday prodded Israel to curb its military sales to China while acknowledging the allies have had "very difficult" talks on the matter. In her first full-fledged Washington news conference since taking over as chief US diplomat in January, Rice reiterated the "rising concern here about military modernization in China." But on the eve of a Middle East trip, she gave no sign of progress in efforts to rein in Israel's transfer of military equipment and technology to China which prompted the Pentagon to restrict sales to Israel. "We have had some very difficult discussions with the Israelis about this," Rice said. "And I think they understand now the seriousness of the matter and we'll continue to have those discussions." She said the goal of the world community was to integrate China as a positive force but "it is also entirely appropriate to be concerned that that happen before there is a major military escalation of China's capability."
The estranged wife of former Bangladesh dictator Hussain Mohammad Ershad, arrested earlier this month on charges including threatening to kill her husband, remained behind bars yesterday after a fresh allegation of money laundering was filed against her. "She was granted bail on Thursday but when I went to the jail with the court order I was told there was another charge of money laundering against her," Sayed Quamrujjaman Mahbub, her lawyer, told AFP. Money laundering is a non-bailable offence in Bangladesh.
