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Area: WoT Operations    WoT Background    Opinion           
Abbas tells Palestinian media to avoid incitement
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
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Page 4: Opinion
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-Lurid Crime Tales-
Tourists repulse Arab attacker
Two intoxicated female British tourists who were sexually assaulted by their Jerusalem Arab taxi driver fended him off with blows which left him hospitalized, police said Tuesday.
"C'mere, beppy! Let's have a little... Ooof!... Ow!"
"Here, Gertie! Use my knucks!"
"Thanks, Gladys! Take that, you beast!"
The incident, which took place late Sunday night, began after the two tourists, who are in their 20's, were picked up by the driver from the city's popular Underground Disco and asked to be driven to the youth hostel in the Jerusalem community of Shoresh. On the way, the driver pulled over on a darkened patch of the road, and started to commit an indecent sexual act on one of the tourists, police said. The two fought back, beating the driver and even damaging his cab.
"Owwwwww! Ow!... Hey! That's my bumper!"
The surprised driver — who was so badly beaten that he required medical treatment at Jerusalem's Hadassah University Hospital at Ein Kerem — was placed under arrest. He was later released on bail. The two tourists involved in the incident were questioned by police, and are still in Israel, police said.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 3:44:11 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Israeli police might wanna keep an eye on those two girls. The scumbag taxi driver might try to avenge his humiliation at the hands of two women, and boy, was it ever. :)
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2004 16:02 Comments || Top||

#2  These grrrrls weren't too keen on the 'lie back and think of England' idea, huh? Good for them.

I can't help thinking there's something redundant in the phrase 'intoxicated female British tourists'. Just can't quite put my finger on it...
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/30/2004 16:07 Comments || Top||

#3  LOL Bulldog! Spent two years in Greece and I know think you can widen that net with 'Intoxicated British tourists'. The first and last words are redundant. I spent many a night drinking with my British cousins and many mornings regretting it!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 11/30/2004 18:16 Comments || Top||

#4  Cant wait until the 'Arab Street' starts to seeth about his humiliation......
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2004 18:28 Comments || Top||

#5  Good work by the Intoxicated Female British Tourist Expeditionary Forces. (IFBTEF).
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/30/2004 20:12 Comments || Top||


-Short Attention Span Theater-
Target Knows What We Want For Christmas
Buy 3 and get free shipping!
Hat tip: Instapundit
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/30/2004 8:41:07 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ima do some blog shoppin there tu. ima already got sumthin pick out for halfempty
Posted by: muck4doo || 11/30/2004 20:53 Comments || Top||

#2  no picture available? Bet .com has some! If not....er....I might
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 20:57 Comments || Top||

#3  Apparently Senator Clinton asked that the picture be removed.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 21:01 Comments || Top||

#4  even boris is get a gift
Posted by: muck4doo || 11/30/2004 21:01 Comments || Top||

#5  and this one for frank.
Posted by: muck4doo || 11/30/2004 21:18 Comments || Top||

#6  I've eaten there! Try the chicken .....
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 21:21 Comments || Top||

#7  Glad you didn't recommend the anchovies.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 21:22 Comments || Top||

#8  Eatin' at the "Y" again, Frank?...
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 21:29 Comments || Top||

#9  Friends of the Salvation Army launch a hacking attack? A big Bah Humbug to you too Mr. Target. Values, we have values, just no bluelight specials.
Posted by: Don || 11/30/2004 21:32 Comments || Top||

#10  lol mojo! :)

ima like the new milkshake maker (nsfw)
Posted by: muck4doo || 11/30/2004 21:32 Comments || Top||

#11  Tastes like chicken.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2004 21:33 Comments || Top||

#12  always, Mojo!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 21:37 Comments || Top||

#13  My eyes, my eyes.
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/30/2004 21:42 Comments || Top||

#14  mucky I know her! It's not photoshopped :p
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 11/30/2004 22:08 Comments || Top||


Godzilla Gets Hollywood Walk of Fame Star
I dont know about anyone else but I've always had a soft spot for Godzilla.....
Godzilla received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame on Monday, 50 years after he stomped onto movie screens and hours before the premiere of his latest film, "Godzilla: Final Wars." Producer Shogo Tomiyama appeared at a ceremony outside Grauman's Chinese Theatre, where the 2,271st star is located. "I'm here representing Godzilla. Unfortunately, he cannot speak English," he said. "We're very excited he is being honored in America."
He is more deserving then a lot of other star receivers.....
On screen, the fire-breathing sea creature was spawned by nuclear weapons testing. He made his appearance in Japanese theaters in November 1954 - while the United States was conducting nuclear tests in the South Pacific. A version starring Raymond Burr made it to theaters in the United States two years later.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2004 3:06:28 PM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Later, they went out and crushed a couple of small towns...
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 15:28 Comments || Top||

#2  better actor than Alec Baldwin too
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 15:35 Comments || Top||

#3  How can you not love the greatest of all the Giant Rubber Monsters?
Posted by: Mike || 11/30/2004 15:36 Comments || Top||

#4  How can you not love the greatest of all the Giant Rubber Monsters?

What? He's an import!
Posted by: Ricau Browning || 11/30/2004 15:51 Comments || Top||

#5  GODZIRRA!!!
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/30/2004 20:01 Comments || Top||

#6  SCuttlebutt is that pretty soon the GODZILLA series will be no more - too bad, I'd always wanted to see the traditional Gizzy do combat against all of his contemporary versions, to includ The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, etc.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 11/30/2004 23:23 Comments || Top||


Commuting 'more stressful than flying a jet fighter'
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 10:54 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I can picture this, the "commuter amnesia" drone response, cuz there's none of the exhilaration and sensory / intellectual demands.
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 12:12 Comments || Top||

#2  O dear. This means we'll be bringing our troops home from Fallujah and putting them in harm's way on the morning drive to work. I'm getting PTSD just thinking about it.
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/30/2004 12:24 Comments || Top||

#3  sure commuting is more stressful than piloting a fighter... cept for that part about people shooting at you, or maintaining control, or environmental conditions, or dealing with the weapons systems... yeah, aside from the death consequence of making a mistake, commuting is more stressful.

This study totally misses the point, everything in life is stressful, but some people actually develop the mechanics to effectively deal with stress in a constructive way, while others bitch and complain about how stressed out they are without realizing that they themselves are as much a factor in the stress as any environment they are in.
Posted by: Jeff || 11/30/2004 12:30 Comments || Top||

#4  Does it mention that it's less fun, too?

So how come people get paid to do it?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 12:33 Comments || Top||

#5  Goddam cutting-off-someone-in-traffic bastard!

Fox One. Launch...

Oh wait... My S-10 isn't equipped with missiles.
Posted by: badanov || 11/30/2004 12:37 Comments || Top||

#6  Sometimes I wish I had 'paintball' missles on my truck....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2004 12:55 Comments || Top||

#7  I'm opting for the 25mm chaingun.
Posted by: Steve || 11/30/2004 15:16 Comments || Top||

#8  A major new study claims the average journey by train or bus is more stressful than being a fighter pilot in combat, or a police officer in a riot.

Geez, the Poms just keep on getting softer. Commuting by train or bus encompasses sitting in your seat or standing up in one place front start to finish, while the vehicle is piloted by someone else. Try driving yourself around in rush hour traffic on SV roads and freeways populated largely by inconsiderate qaqaaheads that have no business being behind the wheel of a car, and then you'll know stress.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2004 15:45 Comments || Top||

#9  It is stressful! I'm constantly worried about my front bumper as I drive it up the ass of some dipshit going 55 in the fast lane while knobbing on a cellphone
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 16:02 Comments || Top||

#10  as I drive it up the ass of some dipshit going 55 in the fast lane while knobbing on a cellphone

Got a speeding ticket (that's not the real news) 4 1/2 years ago westbound on the Mass. Turnpike. I was following a similar donkey, ignoring or not hearing my few beeps. I then took Lane 2 and dropped him at 75 while I flipped him the bird with my left hand outside the driver's window. The state trooper who saw all this in his unmarked Ford van was not amused.
Posted by: Raj || 11/30/2004 21:07 Comments || Top||

#11  I don't know. My last job I had to commute into and out of Chicago by train every day. Between the cell-phone jabberers trying to convince everyone in the car that they were Masters of the Universe by sharing the details of their deals, the territorial expansionists taking up two or three seats with their briefcases and laptops, the folks eating their breakfasts without closing their mouths, the harried mothers unwilling or unable to control their squalling little bundles of snot and noise, and the guy who regularly clipped his toenails, it was enough to make you despise the entire human race.

Nowadays, I have a nice relaxing 25 mile drive out of town, and I feel much better.

Or I would, if I could only get Hellfire rails installed on my Impala!
Posted by: Darth VAda || 11/30/2004 22:40 Comments || Top||


-Signs, Portents, and the Weather-
Be Thankful They Weren't Canaries
Locust swarm hits Canary Islands
Millions of pink locusts swept through one of Spain's Canary Islands on Monday, driving tourists from its beaches. The swarm reached the island of Fuerteventura from West Africa -95 miles away - late on Sunday and covered an area of some 1 million square metres said Antonio Ortega, director general of the regional agriculture department.
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 10:53 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pink?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/30/2004 12:34 Comments || Top||

#2  It's what all the kool swarms are wearing this year.

Posted by: Shipman || 11/30/2004 13:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Well, sniff, have they been to Ibiza? Hmmm?
Posted by: .Everyone I know calls it Salmon, sniff || 11/30/2004 13:11 Comments || Top||

#4  even locusts promote breast cancer awareness. what's next? ants with little yellow rubber bracelets?
Posted by: eLarson || 11/30/2004 14:11 Comments || Top||

#5  As insects they should be high protein. Any good recipes for all that free food?
Posted by: 3dc || 11/30/2004 21:58 Comments || Top||


Arabia
The Cruellest Cut of All
A YOUNG Saudi man who had a sex-change operation is fighting to save the fortune he inherited from his father. Relatives insist that, under Islamic law, as a woman he is entitled to only half as much. The man, whose story has riveted the public in the ultra-conservative kingdom, has been identified only as Ahmad, even though he now lives as a woman. Ahmad's relatives accuse him of deception and have asked a court to divide his father's estate again. "Even as a child I felt that I was not a normal boy ... I preferred to be with girls and play with them," he told the Saudi magazine Sayidaty.
As opposed to normal saudi boys who prefer to be with goats and play with themselves
He first consulted a specialist as a teenager in the US, where he chose to go to university, after "some female bodily features had begun to appear very rapidly".
"Hey, where'd these come from?"
In his second year at university, he was recalled to Saudi Arabia because his father was ill. Ahmad announced he was planning to have a sex-change operation, but his father threatened to disinherit him if he proceeded. "According to him, I would be bringing shame on the family," he said. His father died, however, before Ahmad had the operation, so he received his share of the money as a son. Properties left by his father have yet to be divided. With his cash inheritance, Ahmad was able to afford the sex change, which was successful. "I began to live, for the first time, what was a normal life. I felt a huge burden had been lifted from me." Later he went to France, where he lived and worked as a woman, before returning to Saudi Arabia.
France, where the men are women and the women are confused
At first, he went back as a man because he had not told his family of his sex change. "I cut my hair short, wiped off all traces of make-up and once again put on men's clothes," he said. Soon after he returned, his mother died. He had been unable to summon the courage to tell her, but, finding it impossible to bear the contradictions of his life, he told his brother and sisters of the operation.
"You did what? Ahmed, quick, call our lawyer!"
His family spurned him and applied for the father's estate to be redivided, taking into account his new sex. "They filed a suit even though I am still considered a man and am legally male in Saudi Arabia. I do not know what to do or how to change my sex legally," he said.
Posted by: Steve || 11/30/2004 3:32:13 PM || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...finding it impossible to bear the contradictions of his life, he told his brother and sisters of the operation.

Bad idea. Shoulda waited till ya had the gelt in a swiss account, kid.
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 15:52 Comments || Top||

#2  gelt? Interesting choice of word, mojo.
Posted by: BH || 11/30/2004 16:55 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
China adds its might to ASEAN
Posted by: tipper || 11/30/2004 16:43 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Shows how sticking with the U. S. has had some positives for Australia. Good on ya.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 17:09 Comments || Top||

#2  This raises an interesting point: the major nations of the world have evolved into three major economic centers, NAFTA, the EU, and ASEAN. But this leaves much of the world "unaligned", and raises lots of questions for the future.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 11/30/2004 17:52 Comments || Top||

#3  You mean besides Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia? What else is there?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 17:58 Comments || Top||

#4  In 1984, Africa was a no-man's land, a source of constant warfare between Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 18:03 Comments || Top||

#5  Nah, I'll let someone else say it, heh.
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 18:05 Comments || Top||


Down Under
Govt support for uranium enrichment research alarms Greenpeace
Greenpeace has called on the Australian Federal Government to end its support for research on uranium enrichment carried out by a private company at the Lucas Heights facility in Sydney. The group has released a report claiming the Silex project which uses lasers to enrich uranium has obtained unprecedented help from the Government. Spokesman James Courtney says other nations have already abandoned the technology because it is not viable. He says the project is also at odds with the Government's non-proliferation policy and sends the wrong message to Australia's neighbours. "First of all we need a full open disclosure of what is going on down there," he said. "I think the technology poses significant proliferation risks and that the Government should not be helping to facilitate this type of research at Lucas Heights and it should be having a thorough review of this company and its support of this company."

Defence Minister Robert Hill has declined to comment on the Silex project. But he says any company producing enriched uranium requires an export licence from the government. "We examine that very carefully, because as I said we want to encourage high tech exports," he said. "They bring economic benefit to the country, we don't want them inadvertently diverted into a weapons of mass destruction program."
Posted by: God Save The World || 11/30/2004 9:30:28 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sh*t.

A lack of gullible women at the bars they frequent alarms Greenpeace.
Posted by: badanov || 11/30/2004 7:06 Comments || Top||

#2  Give 'em free tickets to Tehran.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 8:20 Comments || Top||


Europe
Socialism Can't Compete With Free Markets
Denis MacShane, Britain's minister for Europe, is one of the nation's most comically reliable Eurocrats. So imagine EURSOC's surprise to read that MacShame has rounded on his old masters, accusing the European Union of trying to punish Britain for having a successful labour market. According to the Financial Times, MacShame told EU ambassadors that, "There is a concerted effort by key players in Brussels on the European Commission, in the Council of Ministers and the European parliament to take Britain in the direction of rigid labour markets... "Some want a made-in-Brussels straitjacket, by imposing bureaucratic inflexibility on the ability of workers and employers to shape working hours that suit individual needs of employees..."
Plenty more info in article. Hat tip EURSOC.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 11/30/2004 12:43:25 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Eastern Europe Gives Taste of Flat-Tax Paradise
Flat taxes are back on the world's economic agenda. In the U.S., newly re-elected President George W. Bush has talked of simplifying the tax code, words taken by some as meaning a flat tax. And in countries such as the U.K. and Germany, there have been calls for flat taxes. Economists can debate the theory endlessly. Everyone has neat curves showing government revenue rising as taxes fall, and vice versa. Yet this debate doesn't have to be conducted in charts, or tested only in lecture halls. Flat taxes have been introduced in several former communist countries in the past few years. So far, the evidence shows they are working. If that success is sustained, it will give a powerful boost to the proponents of flat taxes. After all, even in tax policy, good ideas are eventually copied...
Posted by: Anonymoose || 11/30/2004 12:29:49 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  51% of Americans will believe the numbers. 48% won't.

Or should I have prefixed that with The party leaders of...?
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 13:06 Comments || Top||

#2  This would be a perfect way to cement an enduring Republican realignment: not just impose a flat tax but also raise the standard deduction to something like $40,000. Impose a nationwide sales tax, including a $2 per pack on cigarettes and a tripling of gasoline taxes, with all gas tax revenues going toward funding of nuclear energy plant construction.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 15:29 Comments || Top||

#3  Well that would be really nice but I still would have a state income tax.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 11/30/2004 15:40 Comments || Top||

#4  [R]aise the standard deduction to something like $40,000....

Careful lex, the median income in the US for a family of 4 is lower than that so you'll be excluding most people from paying income taxes. In the long run that's a self-defeating proposition because it allows the majority to demand an ever-increasing amount of services from a government that looks only to a minority to pay for them. Tax rates would rise on those paying (the highest earning and therefore most productive among us), incentive to work would fall among the most productive, productivity would suffer, and eventually growth would stagnate, the tax base would erode, and we'd become less competitve as a nation. In other words, we'd quickly return to our current state because you'd be creating the wrong incentive for the majority. Flat taxes are find ideas if you absolutely must have an income tax (why?) but to work you need more lik 80-90% payers and 10-20% beneficiaries.
Posted by: AzCat || 11/30/2004 15:40 Comments || Top||

#5  I dunno...I like progressive taxation. The rich should pay more.

When a billionaire like Steve Forbes gets behind an idea, I get worried. Why else would he support it, unless he was going to make money from it?
Posted by: gromky || 11/30/2004 16:38 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe because he believes in it? That's why Gates and Buffet (wrongly, in my opinion) support the death tax.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 16:47 Comments || Top||

#7  The rich do pay more under a flat tax. E.g., under a flat tax of 17% someone making $10k pays $1,700 and someone making 100x as much ($1,000,000) pays 100x as much ($170,000). What in the heck is wrong with that?
Posted by: AzCat || 11/30/2004 16:47 Comments || Top||

#8  Under the current system, the middle class gets hosed. Most Americans in the 70-100k bracket pay a far higher share of their income in federal taxes than do Gates, Forbes, Maria Tereza et al. I believe Maria Tereza ended up paying something like a 12% rate in 2003.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 17:08 Comments || Top||

#9  Yep. Any attempts to make a tax "progressive" will unavoidably end with the poor benefitting, the middle class paying, and the rich escaping. Given the political dynamics in this country there's just no way around that.
Posted by: AzCat || 11/30/2004 19:27 Comments || Top||

#10  MT would still pay a lower rate than the rest of us becasue her reduction was mostly the result of investing in municipal bonds that are exempt from federal taxes. But with the flat tax, the lower rates would reduce the advantage she would gain, and increase the borrowing costs to municipalities.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 21:00 Comments || Top||

#11  I dunno...I like progressive taxation. The rich should pay more.

Question: Once a person's hard work has paid off in a monetary reward/windfall or the prospect of substantial future earnings, is there any reason why that person should then be effectively penalized for being successful?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2004 23:39 Comments || Top||


More than presidency at stake in Ukraine
EFL

Even while we are waiting to see how the crisis finally ends, however, certain victors and vanquished can already be glimpsed, blinking with surprise in the bright orange light. Yushchenko is a victor even if he fails to win the presidency -- this former member of the Ukrainian post-communist establishment is now an international symbol of democratic rights.

His opponent Yanukovych is, on the other hand, a loser even if he wins since -- however well he governs -- he will be "damaged goods" internationally and unable to win Ukraine the investment and better relations with Europe that it needs for more balanced economic trade and development.

Another loser is Russia's President Putin who unwisely invested vast political capital in Yanukovych. It is odd that Putin, who has shown such diplomatic skill in dealing with the United States, should have misread the historical signs so badly in Russia's "near abroad." But it is a mistake with potentially huge consequences for Putin's grand strategy of rebuilding Russian power through an economic alliance with Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other former Russian possessions.

A third loser is French President Jacques Chirac and those European leaders who want the European Union to be an anti-American counterweight to America. International crises involving Russia tend to remind Europeans that the United States remains a very valuable ally in a dangerous and unpredictable world. Fantasies of a superpower Europe seem insubstantial delusions by comparison with this tested alliance.

The final losers are the U.N. and Kofi Annan. The U.N. has been invisible. As Kofi Annan has been trying to keep his head above oil, he has issued his usual appeal for restraint. But this crisis has brought forth the heroes of the Cold War from retirement -- Vaclav Havel, Lech Walesa and Margaret Thatcher -- to encourage the orange revolutionaries. And Annan cannot begin to compete with their moral authority or the legitimacy they can bestow.

Would that all things could work so well
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 8:56:56 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This came just in time to knock Chirac's little nose-thumbing campaign off of Europe's front pages and remind everyone of how trivial he really is.

As to Yushchenko as an "international symbol of democratic rights", color me skeptical. I'm all for PR victories wherever we can get them but having lived and worked in Russia, and seen the disaster that was the Yeltsin Great White Democratic Hope, I can easily foresee more kleptocracy, thuggery and non-democracy from yushchenko and his sidekick, the arch-thief Yulia Timoshenko (aka the "Eleven Billion Woman").

Yulia's part of the problem, not the solution. She contrived with the help of Ukrainian PM Pavel Lazarenko, who was convicted in California of money-laundering and other crimes, to set up a scam holding company that dominated Ukraine's entire energy industry, ie about 20% of Ukraine's entire GDP, and funneled billions in cash to Yulia and other corrupt pols. Prepare for disappointment, folks. As always, the miserable people of the ex-soviet union will suffer the most.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 12:46 Comments || Top||

#2  So shall we assume that no matter what goes on, the people of Eastern Europe and Russia shall continue their ignimonious tradition of being f**ked?
Posted by: Phimble Ulung5313 || 11/30/2004 14:02 Comments || Top||

#3  As to Yushchenko as an "international symbol of democratic rights

Im not sure whos calling Yusch an international symbol of democratic rights. Ive only seen him called that as a straw man, by Russian apologists, including Jonathan Steele of the Guardian. I dont suppose anyones hands are clean over there - but its up to the people of the Ukraine to choose, not us, and not Vlad Putin. And it seems pretty clear that very rampant fraud and intimidation was used, and that Russia cant seem to keep their hands off, and sees any pressure for democracy as vicious interference by evil NATO, evil EU, evil US, etc.

Look, if we're serious about democracy promotion as a strategy, we can hardly pursue it in the Middle East while stepping back in Eastern Europe. And just maybe this can remind folks on BOTH sides of the Atlantic that there is still plenty that unites the US and Europe. At a minimum it is, as the writer says, a blow to the attempt to create a Paris-Berlin-Moscow-Beijing axis against US hegemony. By making clear that such an axis is inevitably aimed against all small and medium sized powers, it alienates the access from the small and medium sized states of Europe, and makes it difficult for Germany especially to adhere to the axis.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Afraid so. Not much we can do, really: we supported Yeltsin, that other brave Great White Democratic Hope, and he promptly turned over 40% of Russia's GDP to a band of seven thieving clans. And to save his own corrupt ass, he turned the government over to an FSB stooge who is doing his best to shut down all traces of Russian democracy. Yeltsin screwed Russia for at least one generation, and Putin may have screwed it for another generation to come.

The struggle in Ukraine now is primarily a contest between two thuggish clans over control of national resources. Democracy really has little to do with it. At a minimum we should demand an end to fraud of both the electoral and the economic varieties as a precondition for any kind of aid.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:13 Comments || Top||

#5  I dont suppose anyones hands are clean over there

This drives me nuts. There's a valid realpolitik argument to be made for treating Putin with something like tough love-- I prefer this approach-- but Ukraine is of no great geopolitical significance to us and therefore there's no reason to wink at the extraordinary corruption in that miserable fourth-world backwater.

You won't get this from the MSM, but anyone who's done business in Russia and Ukraine can tell you that Ukraine's problems are Russia's sqaured. As a Merrill Lynch banker once told me, "You think corruption's bad in Russia? In Ukraine, it's not enough to pay a bribe; even after you've paid they keep asking you for bribe after bribe after bribe."

Get this straight: Yulia Timoshenko stole assets worth 20% of Ukraine's entire GDP. In a couple of years, without creating any economic value whatsoever, this woman connived with PM Lazarenko to create a fortune almost as great as Michael Dell's.

Do you seriously believe that this woman is a friend of liberal democracy?
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:19 Comments || Top||

#6  Democracy really has little to do with it.

except insofar as one of the clans (and im not convinced theyre equally thuggish) MAY have the support of a majority of the electorate, and the other used overt fraud and intimidation and control of the press to cheat them out of it.

At this point I dont think its a question of aid, as of simply speaking frankly about the electoral fraud. Simply speaking the truth about it is now considered virtual aggression by Russia and its apologists.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:21 Comments || Top||

#7  What if it turns out, as is almost certainly the case, that the Queen Fraudster and her sidekick also are guilty of electoral fraud?
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:24 Comments || Top||

#8  X is blatantly corrupt.
X supports candidate Y.
Ergo the election of candidate Y is irrelevant to democracy.

Im sorry, this just doesnt make sense to me. And BTW, from what ive read, the industrial clans in eastern Ukraine have been opposing Yuschenko, and have used their control of the media to present only one side.

And again, the geopolitical signifance is simply to state the truth, and so maintain the credibility of our democracy promotion strategy. And NOT to undercut the Europeans.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:25 Comments || Top||

#9  im not convinced theyre equally thuggish

Stop drinking the western kool-aid. Think about it: how does one individual gain sole control of the entire energy industry of a nation of 50 million people without resorting to what one appratchik described to me and other western fund managers as zheskiye manyeri*?

Hint: Yulia's bodyguards included an entire sqaudron of ex-Spetsnaz brutes, some 22 or so.

* = harsh methods

Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:27 Comments || Top||

#10  I see no evidence so far of large scale fraud on the part of Yuschenko, which would have been more difficult in any case as they dont control govt. I have seen this argument made on other forums, by some Russians who are hysterically antiwestern, and are convinced fraud was orchestrated by the CIA. I also see no evidence that Yuschenko is a front for Timoshenko, rather than an independent political force.

But if such fraud IS found, we should point that out.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:29 Comments || Top||

#11  when your enemies are people like Putin, its probably wise to have some tough bodyguards. How do you gain control of the energy industry of a 4th world country? by buying it I suspect. The mere fact of taking advantage of the chaotic and conditions prevalent in such states is hardly prove of thuggishness. Putin though has a habit of using accusations of corruption against new billionaires WHEN they fund his opposition, while ignoring the same sins when the individuals are NOT funding the opposition. I see the same thing happening in the Ukraine.

And are you really talking about Western Koolaid? A conspiracy of the US AND the EU, of the media from right to left, against Russia? One which has been seen through only by Jonathan Steele at the Guardian?
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:34 Comments || Top||

#12  and apprently lech walesa and Vaclav Havel also drink this Kool aid.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:38 Comments || Top||

#13  Lex-There is so much I admire in peoples from the former Soviet Union, but victimhood as a mode of life is something I will never understand.I hope someday soon that Russians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians are able to stop embracing victimhood and really take the reins of their government in a healthy way. "Well, what can we do about it" is a mindset that seems permeates life there-leaving victims of crime with no expectation of justice, victims of murderous leaders with apathy...victims of political corruption with crippling cynicism...

A second election sounds like the way to legitimacy. After that, the Ukraine will simply join the ranks of many other countries in the world today-where the biggest challenge remaining is finding qualified, bright, and respectable individuals to hold political office.

Posted by: Jules 187 || 11/30/2004 14:39 Comments || Top||

#14  LH, you're seriously misinformed here. The Eleven Billion Dollar Woman's Spetsnaz posse was formed long before this election and was for the sole purpose of sinking her talons into her nation's prime assets. Happened long before there ever was a President Putin.

Before we continue, please read some good studies of how corruption works in Russia and the Ukraine. Try Paul Klebnikov's (RIP) stuff, or Comrade Criminal, or Matt Brzezinski's book, Casino Moscow. This ain't about East and West, or a neo-Cold War, or the Guardian's excitable boyz. This is about the criminalization of the former soviet states and the near-total collapse of governance there. We're talking about failed states, really.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:41 Comments || Top||

#15  "Well, what can we do about it"

You're right. Russians are whiney losers. If only they had guts, like the intrepid muckraking American-Russian Forbes magazine journalist Paul Khlebnikov. Google him, you'll be inspired.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 14:43 Comments || Top||

#16  i have not denied there are many corrupt people in Ukraine or Russia, or that they dominate much of the economy. Yuschenko would have to be more sterling than i would expect to have ALL of them as his enemies. The fact that one of them supports him is, I suppose due to her rivalry with other oligarchs. It does not lessen the importance of stating the truth about the election.

Are you stating that the eastern oligarchs who opposed Yuschenko are clean?
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 14:50 Comments || Top||

#17  Thanks for the tip. I will read about him a bit more before I comment on him.

I think the reason the people are apathetic, timid, cynical, etc is because power has been out of their hands for so long, they've forgotten how it can truly BE IN THEIR HANDS (not in a violent, chaotic way, but in a confident, legitimate way). A close friend of mine who attended Moscow University has often complained that all the people of quality-in politics, in the sciences, in the arts, have all long left, been bought out, or been killed. If that is true, it could surely hurt confidence in elections, no matter who wins.
Posted by: Jules 187 || 11/30/2004 14:56 Comments || Top||

#18  I once knew a man, a Russian immigrant, who was in his 80's when I was a teen. He said that Russia would never be America. His reason was simple: when / if it ever happens, there will be no one left alive there who remembers what life was like pre-Communism. It was that simple in his mind. Thus far, it seems, he was one smart SOB. For the same reason, and a few more, I hold out hope for the Persians.
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 15:02 Comments || Top||

#19  True. A big reason that Pol-Hun-Cz-Estonia are moving forward and that the FSU are not. There is utterly no spontaneous social organizations in Russia-- no support for the capitalist political parties, no consumer groups, no professional associations, women's groups etc. Zip.

As compared to Poland, where you have a powerful Church and thousands of parish organizations, along with farmer's groups and the legacy of independent and active labor unions under the Solidarity umbrella. Russia will not experience real democracy for at least a generation. At most, the city of Moscow might become somewhat more transparent and law-based, but even that would take many years.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 15:20 Comments || Top||

#20  Yet Georgia was under Soviet rule since the 1920's. Is there no civil society there either?
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 15:33 Comments || Top||

#21  Not much.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 17:15 Comments || Top||

#22  Reeking of Kissinger there ... re: Mr. Khlebnikov ... and what do you propose in response to his whacking?
Posted by: Uleque Hupains4686 || 11/30/2004 17:28 Comments || Top||

#23  asdf
Posted by: asdf || 12/01/2004 13:14 Comments || Top||


Yushchenko Wants No Trust Vote Against Prime Minister
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 11:24:54 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The motion failed, because they were depending on the support of the Communist party, which however voted in support of Kuchma's and Yanukovych's allies instead. Yushchenko's supporters thought it would aid them because it had voted in favour of the earlier declaration about the non-validity of the elections.

Bad mistake. Communist parties will still seek to turn their country away from Europe and towards Moscow.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 15:09 Comments || Top||

#2  Your information's wrong, Aris. A no confidence vote just carried Parliament.
Posted by: lex || 12/01/2004 14:22 Comments || Top||


Kiev's Boys in Blue Are Turning Orange
Kiev policemen patrol the streets wearing orange ribbons on their sleeves to show their solidarity with the supporters of opposition presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko who have inundated the city. Dozens of uniformed police cadets join the boisterous street rallies, singing and waving Ukrainian and Georgian flags. Ukrainian television news programs regularly broadcast assertions by the law enforcement agencies that their officers are not taking sides in the standoff between Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych over who should be the next president. The reality on the streets of Kiev and other cities, however, is that many in the rank-and-file have made their choice. This may be one reason the current leadership has been so careful not to provoke a violent confrontation as the protests have grown throughout the week, although both candidates have impressed on their supporters the importance of avoiding violence.

"I voted for Yushchenko and I think neither I nor many others in my detachment would act against the people, even if we got such an order," one police officer said. "But I am not ready to speak about it openly yet. I will wait and see how things develop." The officer -- who would only give his first name, Oleksander -- was patrolling the Khreshchatyk subway station with a fellow officer Sunday evening. Both wore orange ribbons on the sleeves of their dark blue police uniforms. "If I see somebody drunk, I will lead him out, otherwise let them yell, I won't move," Oleksander said. In an informal poll of about a dozen police officers patrolling the streets of Kiev on Sunday and Monday, most said they support Yushchenko, although some said they were afraid to show their support publicly for fear they may be fired.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 10:29:16 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


EU spells out trade threat from China
Posted by: anonymous2u || 11/30/2004 00:15 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  No SH*T, Sherlock.

Now do you see what we're doing?
Posted by: anonymous2u || 11/30/2004 0:16 Comments || Top||

#2  Inturesssting. Reminds me of a chess game.
Posted by: Conanista || 11/30/2004 0:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Europe finally gets a BGO*

* (Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious)
Posted by: Zenster || 11/30/2004 1:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Unfortunately,this report will be used for convincing other EU members to agree to lift arms ban on China,so EU members can sell lots of expensive weapons to China.
The EU Commision report is pretty meaningless. A differ Commission to reduce red tape,remove outdated regulations,etc.,found a whopping 15 items to amend/eliminate out of decades of regulations,directives,etc.
EU Referendum(eureferendum.blogspot.com(?))is a great blog w/a strong British anti-EU view. They go overboard a bit,but do find some great nuggets.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/30/2004 1:23 Comments || Top||

#5  Add on top of all this transfer of technology to Red China,.....that they(China), control BOTH ends of the Panama Canal(illegal BTW). Effectively, being able to deny the U.S. access to OUR own canal. THANK YOU jimmy carter!!! You bucktoothedsackashit!!
Posted by: Floting Granter5198 || 11/30/2004 2:32 Comments || Top||

#6  FG - don't panic. A nice new sea level canal at the originally proposed location in Nicaragua is still viable. Far less maintence and without the sabotage complications of the Panamanian one.
Posted by: Don || 11/30/2004 10:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Screw the idea of another Latin America canal. Dig out the old plans for a canal across Texas, dug with nukes.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/30/2004 11:03 Comments || Top||

#8  Not to worry, let's bring back the FREON and in 30 years we can use the fabulous NW Passage.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/30/2004 12:59 Comments || Top||

#9  Easier to drill in ANWR then, too.
Posted by: too true || 11/30/2004 19:11 Comments || Top||


EU draft sets tough terms for Turkey
Maybe they should talk to their good friends, the Frenchies. I'm sure they'd be willing to put in a good word or two...
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 10:07:13 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Both Greece and France are strongly opposed to Turkey entering the EU.
If the EU was strictly an economic union,letting Turkey in would be a no-brainer. But if EU is an alliance,whether Turkey supports the need for a counterweight to US would be important. If the EU is to be a political-cultural union,it's hard to argue Turkey is a European country,as Europe is defined today.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/30/2004 1:40 Comments || Top||

#2  The document said EU governments would set “benchmarks” for opening and concluding negotiations on each policy area - giving Brussels the ability to make Turkey reach certain standards just to start talks on individual issues.

Heh, sounds to me like the goalposts' wheels are, at the moment, being oiled rather thoroughly...
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2004 2:16 Comments || Top||

#3  ...with motion sensors and self-propelled mechanism.
Posted by: Conanista || 11/30/2004 2:25 Comments || Top||

#4  The "permanent emergency brake on labour migration" feels like a travesty to me. Free movement of labour within the EU is one of the so-called "Four Freedoms". Free movement of goods, capital, services and *people*.

A temporary barrier, as happened with Poland and other eastern-European countries is acceptable, to last for some years and then have it vanish. But a permanent such? Ugh. No, I don't think I would find such a term at all acceptable if I was in Turkey's place.

But this all means nothing if the EU Constitution isn't ratified. Without the ratification, we won't be able to integrate any more countries, no matter how "like us" or "not like us" they are.

If the EU is to be a political-cultural union,it's hard to argue Turkey is a European country,as Europe is defined today.

Given its NATO Membership and general friendship with Israel it's however also hard to argue that Turkey is Middle-eastern. Just like Ukraine, Turkey stands in the border between two geopolitical circles. It's neither the one nor the other. Mulatto.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 2:39 Comments || Top||

#5  Historically Turkey was considered a European country. The view that Turkey is not really European approximately dates from the early days of the EU.
Posted by: phil_b || 11/30/2004 5:39 Comments || Top||

#6  The sick man of Europe; guess he didn't get over what ailed him.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 8:31 Comments || Top||

#7  "Historically Turkey was considered a European country." Mostly because Turkey held most of the Balkans,which I believe Aris would point out has not been the case for a while. Also it should be mentioned,British statesmen,soldiers,writers,etc. in 1800/1900s would commonly call Turks "Asiatics". Until fairly recently,Asia was term that include Asia Minor,Syria and Iran.

Aris,
Canada is a member of Nato and generally friendly to Israel-should it be part of EU?(It's not like Iceland is connected to Europe.)My point was Turkey easily could fit into a EU that was primarily an economic or political union,but it would be hard to fit Turkey culturally into a EU that claimed a common "European" culture. Leaving aside religion,one of the defining characteristics of modern Europe is the social welfare package that is completely absent in Turkey. I would agree that Turkey is neither European nor Middle-Eastern. Which is why the EU will have a hard time deciding whether to let Turkey in-the EU has to decide what it is first.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/30/2004 11:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Canada is a member of Nato and generally friendly to Israel-should it be part of EU?

Considering that something like 85% of Canadas exports go to the US, and that EU membership would mean leaving NAFTA, that would be pretty silly.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 11/30/2004 11:28 Comments || Top||

#9  "that would be pretty silly"

Just an observation: When has this stopped Kanadian MP's in the past?
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 11:32 Comments || Top||

#10  Turkish Anotolia is considered part of Asia, ie the near east. Constantinople, which the Ottomans renamed Istanbul after their victory in 1453, is of course European. It's the "second Rome" (Moscow is considered the "third Rome") and is the seat of many of the great cultural achievements of Christian Rome.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 11:37 Comments || Top||

#11  Turkey is not European because it shares none of its historical development from the Renaissance to the Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution. None. The reason for this is that the Moslems have ruled that country for the last 500+ years. Modern Greece is part of Europe only because it managed to unshackle itself from Moslem occupation less than 200 years ago (thanks to Lord Byron and other fans of Ancient Greece, if memory serves me right).

Now, the problem the EU has is to define itself. Is it a political entity based on cultural-historical Europe? or is it a new Leviathan intent on absorbing as many peripheral countries as possible? if the former, Turkey is and stays out; if the latter, anything goes and the jihadis will rise...
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 11:56 Comments || Top||

#12  Turkey is not European because it shares none of its historical development from the Renaissance to the Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution. None.

Separation of religion from state institutions? (cf Ataturk's modern secular Turkish state)
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 12:00 Comments || Top||

#13  Good Q lex. In Sweden the Lutheran Church is a State Church. In England it's the Church of England...

Ataturk's secular, militarist dictatorship was a check against Moslem anti-modern forces, not a European-style gradual retreat of religion from intervention in the political sphere (what happened from the Renaissance through the Enlightenment).
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 12:09 Comments || Top||

#14  OK, but you can cut them at least a little slack, can't you? By your standard Russia and Ukraine will never be worthy of Europe either. Is that really fair or appropriate?
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 12:13 Comments || Top||

#15  "worthy"?

Isn't there some perspective called for, here? Lol!
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 12:17 Comments || Top||

#16  Russia has a long way to go, indeed. Ukraine I don't know enough to say, but from my time there for business ten years ago I'd say the Ukrainian people are overall more open to the West than Russians are. I wouldn't say never for these countries, but I'd certainly say never for a majority Moslem country such as Turkey.

Turkey should aim at one thing only: free trade with the USA and the EU. Keep all other sources of conflict off the table. The problem is that the EU is a Leviathan that wants to use the carrot of free trade to impose political-cultural change. A bit as if your neighbourhood baker demanded that you change the way you dress before he lets you buy bread from him.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 12:34 Comments || Top||

#17  The problem is that the EU is a Leviathan that wants to use the carrot of free trade to impose political-cultural change. A bit as if your neighbourhood baker demanded that you change the way you dress before he lets you buy bread from him.

That's not a problem, that's a feature. It's a tactic that has worked so far.

but I'd certainly say never for a majority Moslem country such as Turkey

Does that include Bosnia and Albania? I've not yet seen many Europeans oppose eventual membership for those countries.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 13:22 Comments || Top||

#18  A bit as if your neighbourhood baker demanded that you change the way you dress before he lets you buy bread from him.

Though I'd probably describe it as: "A bit as if your neighbourhood baker demanded that you stopped abusing your wife and mistreating your children before he lets you buy bread from him."
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 13:24 Comments || Top||

#19  Sure Aris, the EU demands e.g. adoption of the metric system, changes to the tax code, special measurements of fruits and veggies -- and you compare that to domestic abuse.

Maybe Greece shouldn't be part of Europe. Return Greece to Turkish domination. Turn the Parthenon into a mosque, again.

As for Bosnia and Albania, I have no particular opinion about these small countries. I've never been there. If, however, they are like the Moslem countries I have visited, I'd say a dominant Moslem character should be reason enough to keep them out of the EU. Recent exactions against non-Moslem people and churches in the Balkans would indicate that the jihadist mentality is alive and well there.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 13:45 Comments || Top||

#20  Sure Aris, the EU demands e.g. adoption of the metric system, changes to the tax code, special measurements of fruits and veggies -- and you compare that to domestic abuse.

I thought we were discussing Turkey, not United Kingdom. And in Turkey's case it's not the metric system that had been the target of reform efforts. It was things like torture in prisons, the oppression of the Kurdish populations, the interference by the military in civil matters, reformation of the penal code, little stuff like that.

But I should have known better than believe you were discussing Turkey when you were pretending to be discussing Turkey.

Maybe Greece shouldn't be part of Europe. Return Greece to Turkish domination. Turn the Parthenon into a mosque, again.

You should do something for these epileptic fits. I hear there are medicine that can be of assistance.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 14:47 Comments || Top||

#21  Aris, we were discussing the EU Leviathan and how it uses the carrot of trade to demand cultural-political change at its periphery. Surely you realize that Turkey is not the only country that has been pressured by EU social engineers? surely you realize that tax codes across non-EU European countries have been thoroughly messed up due to EU economic threats? surely you are aware of the regulation size of brussel sprouts and sausages outside of the UK?

But you are obviously a bore unable to keep to principles, always coming up with irrelevant objections. So, you seem to be a good fit for Moslem rule: short-range mentality, obsessed with central power, hating liberty-lovers in the US and UK, in love with your words. Check-check-check-check.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 15:29 Comments || Top||

#22  I have no interest in your inanity, Kalle.

Aris, we were discussing the EU Leviathan and how it uses the carrot of trade to demand cultural-political change at its periphery.

Yes, but very few people would consider "cultural-political change" to be a reference to the standardization of the labelling of brussel sprouts. One would consider matters of linguistic freedom or minority integration or of gender politics or of political democratization to fit much more closely to the definition of "cultural-political change".

But silly me, you were instead referring to the evil metric measurements, which the evil EU, (just like evil Australia, evil Japan and evil South Korea) demands in all products sold inside its borders. Yes, I admit I didn't see that coming. *Some* amounts of silliness and hyperbole are too bizarre to contemplate. Ooh, my political culture is horribly changed because a pound is divided in 100 pennies.

As for your oh-pity-me metric martyrdom, Kalle, do you really think that the EU could make such a rule, had the UK cared one bit about it not being made? The United Kingdom was already moving towards metricization since the 1960s when you first corrected your pound.

Now, wimpy for internal reactions, it's using the big-bad-EU explanation to impose a rule it decided *in common* with the rest of the EU. Here's a little secret, Kalle which you would have known already if you understood the EU's workings -- *all* the rules so-called "imposed" on your country by the EU, are things commonly agreed, which means they share UK's consent.

So deal with it with your own political elite which uses the EU as a scapegoat, and leave the poor goat alone.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 15:59 Comments || Top||

#23  Aris, I'm Swedish, not British.

Thanks for illustrating my previous post. You again offer a bunch of irrelevant side-comments, showing no interest in the principle of the EU Leviathan at work. Can't do that little shuffle of yours with taxation, can you?

I don't care what measurement system local people use, as long as its coherent. As an engineer I prefer the metric system, but I respect the freedom of others to measure the world as suits their own purpose. But then, punishing British farmers for selling food by the pound in a street market is sooooo enlightened. Must really hurt you back in Greece, when someone uses non-metric units in remote countries. I guess that's one way one can measure your love of freedom.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 16:32 Comments || Top||

#24  Aris, I'm Swedish, not British.

Thanks for illustrating my previous post. You again offer a bunch of irrelevant side-comments, showing no interest in the principle of the EU Leviathan at work. Can't do that little shuffle of yours with taxation, can you?

I don't care what measurement system local people use, as long as its coherent. As an engineer I prefer the metric system, but I respect the freedom of others to measure the world as suits their own purpose. But then, punishing British farmers for selling food by the pound in a street market is sooooo enlightened. Must really hurt you back in Greece, when someone uses non-metric units in remote countries. I guess that's one way one can measure your love of freedom.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 16:37 Comments || Top||

#25  Well done, Kalle. Worth reading twice.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 16:42 Comments || Top||

#26  Attempt to post got deleted by crash. Rewriting.

Can't do that little shuffle of yours with taxation, can you?

Given how I know little-to-nothing about taxation, I can't do anything with taxation, and so can neither concede nor oppose your points concerning it. I also know little-to-nothing about monetary policy. Which is why you'll never see me commenting on flat rates-versus-progressive taxation nor you will ever see discussing the benefits vs cons of a strong or a weak currency.

I don't care what measurement system local people use, as long as its coherent.

I don't care what measurement system local people use either. But it's you who brought up the metric system, not I.

When you talked about cultural-political change, it's me who assumed you were talking about the big stuff like democraticization and political freedom, when you were in reality talking about metric system and standardization of labels. So I think that shows where your interest lies.

Must really hurt you back in Greece, when someone uses non-metric units in remote countries.

You keep on failing to get my main point. It wasn't the other countries of the EU that imposed something to the UK that it didn't want to do. This imposition on metric measurement was something that the EU and the UK agreed *together*. You would be much more accurate blasting the UK government for imposing the metric standardization on its *own* citizens.

But if you go on with your pretentious "respect the freedom of others to measure the world as suits their own purpose", then you should be insisting that national governments can't impose standardization of measurements either. As I said, the EU's not alone in this respect.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 17:56 Comments || Top||

#27  You don't need to focus on every little detail of taxation policy in order to observe that the EU has been throwing its weight around, and using trade as a stick, to mess with the tax freedoms of various countries, whether in or out of the EU.

That you refuse to observe so and choose to hide behind an alleged lack of knowledge of taxation details directly confirms your lack of principles and absence of love for freedom.

If you see a thug beating up a lady in the street, do you denounce and stop the thug, or do you boorishly prattle about your lack of knowledge about the precise way he is hitting her?
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 18:08 Comments || Top||

#28  As long as you keep on attacking my moral character, I can't remain calm in responding.

And if I don't remain calm in responding, I will be attacked as having "Arisified" the thread, and turning it into a discussion about me, when in reality it's ofcourse you who first turned it into a discussion about me.

So, so long: If you ever stop foaming at the mouth, let me know. I have no interest in playing anymore with a rabid dog.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 18:21 Comments || Top||

#29  nice run, Kalle...heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 19:02 Comments || Top||

#30  Kalle only got him up to #28. I've seen better.
Posted by: Tom || 11/30/2004 19:28 Comments || Top||

#31  Kalle only got him up to #28. I've seen better.

Yeah, but I've graduated. That means that if I simply abandon a frustrating thread, I no longer just have frustrating schoolwork to look forward to instead. That's an added incentive to leave early threads bound to be meaningless.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2004 19:47 Comments || Top||

#32  Frustrating schoolwork? Frustrating Kalle? You ain't seen nothin' yet -- wait until you see the Greek army!
Posted by: Tom || 11/30/2004 19:49 Comments || Top||

#33  What constitutes "attacking [one's] moral character"? calling someone a coward? dishonest? lazy? manipulative? spineless?

Lacking principles merely makes one a pragmatist, not a character flaw. Not loving freedom merely makes one a statist, not a character flaw. Not directly, at least. Using cheap debating tricks merely makes one a sophist, not a character flaw -- but fair game.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 11/30/2004 22:11 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Kweisi hangs it up
Julian Bond is now free to toss out the rest of the mensheviks and run things as he pleases. It's a weird world where Kweisi Mfume's a "moderate."
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 3:31:54 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: North
Egypt Divorce Laws Unfair to Women
Gee. Golly. When did that start?
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 7:27:10 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But prominent Islamic scholar Gamal el-Banna said reform of Islamic laws regarding divorce is possible.

I suppose it's also possible that pigs might fly out of my ass...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/30/2004 20:05 Comments || Top||

#2  yikes!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 20:18 Comments || Top||


Africa: Subsaharan
Politician Buys Panties for Lady Voters
An unnamed Zimbabwean politician has been trying to win women's votes by handing out free lingerie, state television reported on Tuesday. Handing out gifts is not uncommon in election campaigns in Zimbabwe, but this time the publicity incurred the wrath of his ruling Zanu-PF party. "Supporters have been angered by the antics of an aspiring parliamentary candidate (who) has been accused of using unorthodox means to garner support - including the buying of undergarments for women," Zimbabwe Television said. The main opposition party has threatened to boycott the elections, demanding that sweeping electoral reforms be implemented first.
Posted by: tipper || 11/30/2004 4:14:24 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ick.
Posted by: trailing wife || 11/30/2004 17:32 Comments || Top||

#2  That what you get when you get beyond handing out pot holders with your name on them. I can see it now granny style cotton womens underwear with Bill Jones for congress printed across the butt.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 11/30/2004 17:42 Comments || Top||

#3  On the other hand, if I come home and find my wife wearing underwear with some politician's name on them, she's got a lot of 'splainin' to do...
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 18:39 Comments || Top||

#4  Would that be especially true if the politician was one of those "touchy-feely" types?

Just wonderin' ;-)
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 18:45 Comments || Top||

#5  Or you could get a pair of Clintons with a cigar sewn in.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 11/30/2004 18:51 Comments || Top||

#6  It was Hillary's panties that had the 20cm cigar attached.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 19:00 Comments || Top||

#7  Fred - the panties with "Bush" on the front are for the directionally challenged....
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2004 19:06 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Banglanutz stop women swimmers
Bangladesh's government has stopped women taking part in a swimming competition after pressure from an Islamic group.
"Stop or we'll seethe!"
Radical Muslims threatened large demonstrations if the competition was allowed to go ahead. In July, a women's wrestling tournament was cancelled after threats to disrupt it, and a women's football competition was called off after protests. It was later held peacefully. The long-distance swimming competition had been due to take place in a river in Chandpur, south of the capital. Male swimmers set off as planned, but the women's event was cancelled. Four female swimmers had been expected to take part. The decision was made by Bangladesh's Sports Minister, Fazlur Rahman. He said he had no choice after a radical Islamic group threatened to bring the entire district around Chandpur to a halt with protests. The Committee for Resistance to Un-Islamic Activities said women taking part in the sport would offend Bangladesh's more than 100 million Muslims.
... most of whom aren't nutjobs like the Committee for Resistance to Everything We Don't Like.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 3:40:28 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sheesh, these Islamic groups are about as bad as overnannying leftists.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2004 15:48 Comments || Top||

#2  Fazl is the Bangla sports minister? Boy, he's talented...
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/30/2004 15:50 Comments || Top||

#3  I figure swimming would be a natural survival adaptation in Bangladesh, seeing as the country is underwater every other year. Better check for web feet.
Posted by: Steve || 11/30/2004 16:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Sheesh, these Islamic groups are about as bad as overnannying leftists.

Islamists ARE overnannying leftists.
Posted by: badanov || 11/30/2004 16:16 Comments || Top||

#5  Can't be fears over showing the flesh. Didn't Nike come out with a neoprene burka?
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 18:02 Comments || Top||

#6  lex - What a weird visual... I'm getting a manatee image I can't shake!
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 18:04 Comments || Top||

#7  See? Psyches out the competition. Watch for them to sweep the women's swimming medals at Beijing.
Posted by: lex || 11/30/2004 18:22 Comments || Top||

#8  Lol! Speaking of the Peking Olys - won't that be a festival of ethics, heh. And the innocents among us thought the Sovs were sneaky obsessed cheaters, ha!
Posted by: .com || 11/30/2004 18:27 Comments || Top||


Africa: Subsaharan
Zanu-PF loses it
Zimbabwe has come up with a bizarre proposal to solve the food crisis threatening half its population with starvation. It wants to bring in obese tourists from overseas so that they can shed pounds doing manual labour on land seized from white farmers. The so-called Obesity Tourism Strategy was reported last week in The Herald, a government organ whose contents are approved by President Robert Mugabe's powerful information minister, Jonathan Moyo. Pointing out that more than 1.2 billion people worldwide are officially deemed to be overweight, the article exhorted Zimbabweans to "tap this potential".
"Yo! Over there in efficient economies! Lend us your bulk!"
"Niegel, why is that young man slicing carrots into our hot tub?"
"Tourists can provide labour for farms in the hope of shedding weight while enjoying the tourism experience," it said, adding that Americans spent $6 billion a year on "useless" dieting aids. "Tour organisers may promote this programme internationally and bring in tourists, while agriculturalists can employ the tourists as free farm labour. The tourists can then top it all by flaunting their slim bodies on a sun-downer cruise on the Zambezi or surveying the majestic Great Zimbabwe ruins."
I think Moyo might have had his vacation in Jamaica, where he ran across some really, really strong ganja...
Posted by: rhodesiafever || 11/30/2004 15:21 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Just think, the "Great" Stalin could have dramatically increased industrial output offering obese tourists work in Soviet factories! Every tourist a Stahanovite!
Posted by: borgboy || 11/30/2004 19:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Egregious error: "Stakhanovite".
Posted by: borgboy || 11/30/2004 19:29 Comments || Top||

#3  Seriously, this is a lengthy article that details the extent to which Robert Mugabe has destroyed an otherwise viable country. The obese tourist nonsense is just a silly introduction.
Posted by: Tom || 11/30/2004 19:38 Comments || Top||

#4  I thought that this was Scrappleface or something. It would be hilarious if the fate of Zimbabwe wasn't so tragic.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2004 23:09 Comments || Top||


Congo Official: Rwanda Troops Attacking
A senior Congolese official said Tuesday his nation had been invaded by neighboring Rwanda, and U.N. officials said they were investigating claims of Rwandan forces clashing with militias in the east.
Rwanda never seems to get enough, do they?
"We are on a war footing," Cabinet minister Mbusa Nyamwisi said in the eastern city of Beni, which he said was near the fighting. "We are being attacked by the Rwandan troops." Nyamwisi claimed two brigades of Rwandan troops were fighting alongside Congolese rebel allies, but he gave no evidence.
Just drag out a few corpses...
A U.N. official said Rwandan forces reportedly were fighting ethnic militias loyal to Congo's government. His comments came as Rwanda's president said in a deliberately vague speech he already may have sent troops into neighboring Congo to disarm Hutu rebels, a day after credible reports that thousands of Rwandan forces had crossed the border. President Paul Kagame, whose government repeatedly has accused the Hutus of launching attacks from Congo, threatened to take matters into his own hands if Congo and the United Nations do not rein in the rebels, responsible for the 1994 genocide of a half-million minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus in Rwanda. "Anytime the United Nations ignores or fails to deal with the problem of (the rebels), we shall do it ourselves, and this will not take long, or, we might even be doing it now," Kagame told Rwandan lawmakers Tuesday in his capital, Kigali.
Guess he got fed up with the UN as well.
Neither the United Nations nor any other independent observer has verified alleged Rwandan incursions or fighting.
Must have been having tea
On Wednesday, the U.N. humanitarian agency will send a mission to a zone between Walikele and Lubero, north of Masisi, and near the Rwandan border, said the agency's director in Goma, Bernard Leflaive.
"Lots of time! It's not like there aren't lots of blackfellows to replace any deaders, y'know!"
Rwandan forces reportedly were fighting Congo government-allied Mai Mai ethnic militias in that area, Leflaive said. Rwanda has invaded Congo twice since 1996 on the grounds of flushing out the Hutu extremists. Rwanda's second invasion, in 1998, touched off a five-year war that drew in the armies of four other nations and split resource-rich Congo. An estimated 3.2 million people died, most through famine and disease. Lawless east Congo - scene of the worst fighting in the devastating 1998-2002 war - is home to numerous, vying militias, with frequent clashes in the remote bush there.
The word "militia" traditionally implies some sort of discipline. "Roving bands of fascisti" would probably be a more accurate term...
Congo's government still is struggling to secure the area, formerly controlled by Rwanda. Additionally, residents there frequently blame Rwandan troops for clashes involving Rwanda-allied rebels and other forces. On Tuesday, local officials, Congolese commanders, priests and other community leaders claimed Rwandan forces were in the area, in reports to both U.N. officials and to journalists. Villagers reaching Beni told authorities that communities north of Goma, near the Rwandan border, had been attacked, and at least three villages were burned, Nyamwisi said. The displaced also reported 15 people killed at the village of Ikobo, he said. Congolese "intelligence services" also reported Rwandan troops north of Goma, regional military commander Col. Etienne Bindu said.
Posted by: Steve || 11/30/2004 2:49:27 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm sure Kofi will jump right on this.

Right after lunch in Paris, a snack in New York, a late night 'conference' in Amsterdam, A breakfast conference in Tokyo, etc.....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2004 15:08 Comments || Top||

#2  ...the U.N. humanitarian agency will send a mission to a zone between Walikele and Lubero, north of Masisi, and near the Rwandan border...

Soup's on!
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 15:16 Comments || Top||

#3  "Neither the United Nations nor any other independent observer has verified alleged Rwandan incursions or fighting."

They are all having drinks several hundred miles away.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 11/30/2004 15:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Rwanda vs DR Congo?
African version of this:
Posted by: BigEd || 11/30/2004 15:38 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
First U.S. Muslim Lifestyle Network in English Debuts
Posted by: ed || 11/30/2004 13:53 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: Subsaharan
French troops fired on Ivorian crowds, Paris says (via trans-int.blogspot.com)
Posted by: ed || 11/30/2004 13:07 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This happened what? 2 - 3 WEEKS ago and they are just now (after deliberately ignorning it for that time) mentioning it as an 'alert'?

Or am I missing something......
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2004 14:38 Comments || Top||

#2  In other news, Yasser Arafat and General Francisco Franco met for talks this afternoon.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 15:25 Comments || Top||

#3  No blood for cocoa! No Blood for cocoa!
Posted by: Darth VAda || 11/30/2004 22:56 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Dan Rather: I talk to ghosts. No, really, I do!
EFL & HT to Drudge
Snip ...
Of course, the guy has always been a little bit off his rocker out there. There was his decision to sign off his newscast with the word "Courage" for no apparent reason three times during a single week in 1985 as well as the bizarre 1986 incident in which Rather was roughed up by attackers who reportedly asked, "Kenneth, what is the frequency?" -- a line later immortalized in an R.E.M. tune.

It also didn't take much to prompt certain peculiarities to exit Rather's lips, such as during my interview with him last year. Describing his love of CBS and CBS News, Rather observed in the interview last year: "In my mind and the minds of the people I work with, this is a magical, mystical kingdom -- our version of Camelot. And we feel we are working at a kind of roundtable of King Arthur proportions. Now, it may be that this kingdom exists only in our minds. But that makes it no less real for those of us who live it every day."

And then there was this: "Ed Murrow's ghost is here. I've seen him and talked to him on the third floor of this building many times late at night. And I can tell you that he's watching over us."
Priceless. They should never let this man function off script.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 11/30/2004 1:22:01 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Does Ed Murrow's ghost know the frequency? Did Dan even ask?
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/30/2004 14:45 Comments || Top||

#2  Ed: "You dumb SOB. You used forged documents to attack the commander-in-chief during time of war? What are you, a Nazi fifth-columnist?"
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2004 14:50 Comments || Top||

#3  Danny the Dinosaur. The twentieth century is over. We in the 21st. The bones of Dan Rather can be found inside a stomach of a Rantasaraus. Yum...tasty danburger.
Posted by: 2b || 11/30/2004 15:12 Comments || Top||

#4  Screw the frequency, Kenneth. What's the stock price?
Posted by: Sumner Redstone || 11/30/2004 15:21 Comments || Top||

#5  asdf
Posted by: asdf || 11/30/2004 16:24 Comments || Top||

#6  No doubt, the ghost of Edward R. Murrow walks the halls of Black rock, weeping bitter tears of shame.
Posted by: Mike || 11/30/2004 17:24 Comments || Top||

#7  No wonder Dan likes Hillary, he's hoping for an introduction to Elanor Roosevelt.
Posted by: RWV || 11/30/2004 22:17 Comments || Top||

#8  Edward R. Murrow was the journalist that Dan Rather never was. Murrow was out there in the real world (not a magic kingdom) producing a product of such high quality that Rather could only dream about. Rather resigns in shame.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2004 22:43 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Hindu Leader 'Confesses' to Role in Murder
Police in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu yesterday claimed that Jayendra Saraswathi, the Shankaracharya of Kamakoti Mutt, had confessed to his complicity in the murder of a former associate of the religious establishment.
"I dunnit! I dunnit an' I'm glad!"
Police also added a new sex angle to the case, claiming Saraswathi had unspecified relationship with a woman, whose involvement in the murder also needed to be probed.
See? Cherchez la femme. I'll betcha she's a mysterious lady who wears a veil and packs a .38...
Opposing the bail application filed by Saraswathi, counsel for police told the Madras High Court that Saraswathi had broken down during his custodial interrogation last week and admitted his complicity. In a written affidavit filed by police, the investigating officer claimed Saraswathi was in the habit of having long telephone conversations with Usha, a woman deserted by her husband, who the police said had been provided with a house by Saraswathi in Srirangam, about 300 km from here.
A holy man keeping a mysterious veiled lady in a love nest... Boy, that's never happened before, has it?
"Substantial sums of money had been periodically transferred to her account. She has withdrawn the entire money from her account and is now on the run,'' police said.
"Mr. Marlowe! You've got to help me! I have no one to turn to!"
The police affidavit said there was reason to believe that the Shankaracharya feared that his relationship with the woman would be exposed by Thiru Sankararaman, the manager of the mutt of whose murder the Shankaracharya is accused.
Uhuh. Being blackmailed by the mutt manager, was he? And he got tired of paying...
Police said they had "credible and unassailable material evidence'' of Saraswathi's involvement in the conspiracy to murder Sankararaman. Saraswathi himself had revealed his complicity in clear terms during his custodial interrogation, which was video-taped in full. Police said Sankararaman had moved court, seeking accounts from the mutt for the gold it had acquired for gold plating a chariot for a temple in Kanchipuram. The gold plating was done under the supervision and guidance of Saraswathi. Although 100 kg of gold was bought for the purpose, only 35 kg was used and the remaining 65 kg was unaccounted for.
So now there's a hidden stash of gold, to boot. Try digging under the grape arbor...
Before he was murdered, Sankararaman had been trying to investigate the presence of women in the mutt after 10 p.m., the "irreligious activities'' of the Shankaracharya and the trusts floated by him and also the extravagant lifestyle of his relatives.
"Sankararaman knows too much, Muggsy. Somethin's gotta be done..."
Police also pointed out that Saraswathi, even while in custody, was able to wield enough influence to force two of the key witnesses to retract their confessional statements, and if let out on bail could easily derail the investigation. Judge R. Balasubramaniam, who is hearing the bail application, adjourned the case until today.
He left the courthouse with a shovel...
The Hindu fundamentalist Bharatiya Janata Party reacted sharply to the prosecutor's statement. "Don't read such news. Don't hear such news. This phase will also be over," BJP spokeswoman Sushma Swaraj said. "It is absolutely baseless. Never, never has he confessed to the crime," she said, adding the implication of the religious leader being involved in the murder was a direct affront to Hinduism.
I think Mr. Prosecutor should be careful starting his car. And don't even think about meeting an informant in the dead of night down by the old warehouse — especially if the caller's the Mysterious Veiled Lady...
I wondered where Lucy Ramirez got to
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2004 11:26:49 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Jane Greer? Yum. But deadly, oh yeah...
Posted by: mojo || 11/30/2004 15:24 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Tue 2004-11-30
  Abbas tells Palestinian media to avoid incitement
Mon 2004-11-29
  Sheikh Yousef: Hamas ready for 'hudna'
Sun 2004-11-28
  Abizaid calls for bolder action against Salafism
Sat 2004-11-27
  Palestinians Dismantle Gaza Death Group Militia
Fri 2004-11-26
  Zarqawi hollers for help
Thu 2004-11-25
  Syria ready for unconditional talks with Israel
Wed 2004-11-24
  Saudis arrest killers of French engineer
Tue 2004-11-23
  Mass Offensive Launched South of Baghdad
Mon 2004-11-22
  Association of Muslim Scholars has one less "scholar"
Sun 2004-11-21
  Azam Tariq murder was plotted at Qazi's house
Sat 2004-11-20
  Baath Party sets up in Gay Paree
Fri 2004-11-19
  Commandos set to storm Mosul
Thu 2004-11-18
  Zarqawi's Fallujah Headquarters Found
Wed 2004-11-17
  Abbas fails to win Palestinian militant truce pledge
Tue 2004-11-16
  U.S., Iraqi Troops Launch Mosul Offensive


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