Home sperm deliveries are being offered in the Netherlands by an Australian-born entrepreneur who will launch a private fertility company - Baby Donors International - next month. John Michaels, 35, said his company would deliver fresh sperm, chosen from a catalogue, and home insemination kits at a starting fee of â¬2500 ($A4393). "Hello, my name is John. Iâll be your home insemination kit today".
"Itâs an alternative to women going to a bar and picking up a guy, putting an ad in the paper or asking a friend," said Mr Michaels, who boasted the company could deliver to clients in Amsterdam "within the hour". Thereâs a name for that.
He denied illegally marketing sperm and eggs, insisting he was acting merely as a pimp broker between prospective parents, donors and clinics. Baby Donors International, which also promotes itself as a travel and dating service, hoped to establish franchises in Europe, Britain, the United States, Asia and Australia. Canât wait for the TV informercial.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 10:54:24 AM ||
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Fresh sperm???????? Lemme guess...the donor catalogue is assembled in the red-light district. :: urk ::
#5
I've always heard the greatest job growth was in the "service" industry.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 11:47 Comments ||
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The economic slowdown coupled with the increase in the minimum wage in America has caused an unusually high rate of high school boys with no employment for this summer. Problem solved. They are uniquely qualified.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:13 Comments ||
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BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - An ice-cream truck driver in Thailand died while laughing in his sleep, a newspaper reported Thursday. Damnoen Saen-um, 52, laughed for about two minutes on Wednesday and then stopped breathing, The Nation said, quoting officials. In his dream, nymph #1 was suggesting a total body oil rub, nymph #2 was doing lewd things, and nymph #3 was telling bawdy jokes. Thatâs why he was laughing.
The newspaper said Damnoenâs wife tried to wake him up but he kept laughing. After which she beat him to death.
An autopsy suggested that he might have been beaten by his wife after laughing at her in his sleep had a heart attack, The Nation quoted a doctor as saying. "I have never seen a case like this. But it is possible that a person could have heart seizure while laughing or crying too hard in their sleep," said Dr. Somchai Chakrabhand, deputy director-general of the Mental Health Department, according to The Nation. The incident occurred in Phrae province, 300 miles north of Bangkok. Important rule: keep the nymphs under control in your dreams, fellas!
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 1:12:31 AM ||
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He died happy, that's more than I can say for most people.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:49 Comments ||
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I'm an RN and I have never heard of a "heart seizure". I am also surprised that Thailand has a mental health dept.
Posted by: Bill ||
08/22/2003 12:53 Comments ||
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I'm not surprised that an ice-cream truck driver would sleep-laugh himself to death. Imagine that horrid seventeen-second loop invading your every non-waking moment. He wasn't laughing happy; he was laughing nuts (and possibly sprinkles).
Posted by: (lowercase) matt ||
08/22/2003 14:05 Comments ||
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EFL
There seems to be no shortage of stupid young recruits willing to take up arms and join the Taliban in Afghanistan. At an imposing jail on the outskirts of the southern city of Kandahar, birthplace of the ousted Islamic militia, prison officials say there are 50 to 60 "political inmates," a term usually used to describe Taliban guerrillas. Reuters met a small number late on Wednesday, all young men or teenagers who, whether for faith, money or out of pure ignorance recently joined the "jihad," or holy war, declared by the Taliban against U.S.-led foreign troops, aid workers and their "helpers." All said they came from neighboring Pakistan.
It must be kind of embarrassing for the Talibs to have so few actual Afghans among their ranks...
They were selected by an Afghan intelligence official so it was unclear how representative they were of the prisoners; Kabul pins the blame for rising Taliban violence largely on Pakistan. Reuters forgot their scare quotes around "selected".
"I am a Talib," said Rahmatullah, an 18-year-old from the central Afghan province of Uruzgan. "I was studying in a madrassah in Chaman and was told by the Taliban to join them and join the jihad," he added, referring to a Muslim religious school. Two months ago in Chaman, a border town in Pakistan, Rahmatullah met Mullah Mateen who went with him to the Pakistani city of Quetta where he joined 10 more fighters. They went by taxi to the Maruf district of Kandahar province and a few nights later a group of 20 launched an unsuccessful attack on an officialâs house during which Rahmatullah, who wears a blue turban and a wispy black beard, was caught. "I donât care much for the Talibanâs opinion. I was just given money and fought for money," he said unapologetically. He was paid $55 for his troubles. I guess itâs true, you get what you pay for. Quality gunnies cost money, Iâll bet Saddamâs boys are paying top dollar.
I'd guess they're still getting them relatively cheaply in Iraq, as well. Cannon fodder's cheap and easily replaceable. If it's not, the jihad economic model doesn't work...
The Taliban drew its strength in the 1990s from "talibs," or Islamic students, mostly in Pakistani madrassahs. Despite promises by Islamabad to reform them, they are widely seen as a continuing source of militant Islamic teaching.
They're run by the Pak religious parties, naturally. They're the actual organizations making war against us...
Mohammad Ramazan, a nervous-looking 20-year-old, was told to go and fight for the Taliban in Afghanistan by Mullah Mohammad Issah, a cleric in a Quetta madrassah. "Mullah Issah was teaching at the madrassah. He taught that the Americans are in Afghanistan and you have to go and join the Taliban and fight the jihad," he said. Somebody needs to pay Issah a late night visit.
Wearing a skullcap and "shawal kameez" shirt, Ramazan recounted how he had also gone to Maruf, but decided to run away when he realized he had made a "big mistake." "Wait a minute, we have to die before we get the virgins?"
He said he heard Taliban guerrillas discussing plans for attacks on U.S. forces and Afghan government soldiers. An intelligence official overseeing the interviews said Ramazan was involved in fighting but did not have a gun when caught. "I really miss my family, my wife and my mother. They come into my dreams every night," said Ramazan, before being led off back to his cell. Both inmates said they had met Pakistanis among the Taliban fighters, but no Arabs. An undisclosed number of more senior members of the militia are in U.S. custody at Kandahar air base or in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, prison officials said. Iâll bet that all non-Afghan/Pakistani prisoners are being held by the US for "questioning" someplace safe. Afghanistan gets to keep the locals. Mullah Sabir, alias Momin, deputy for senior Taliban commander Mullah Abdur Rahim, told Reuters members of the al Qaeda network were not operating in Afghanistan. al Qaeda has moved to the Iraqi front, more chances at glory.
"The jihad will continue against coalition, and especially U.S. and British, forces and Afghan forces, because this is our religious duty," he told Reuters from an undisclosed location via satellite telephone. Monitored by the CIA.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 9:38:22 AM ||
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Gym class at a madrassah must be interesting. I'll bet they don't play dodge ball.
Security forces captured six Taliban fighters in central Afghanistan, while a U.S. helicopter attack left three people wounded, Afghan officials said. Two of the arrested guerrillas in central Uruzgan province were local commanders before a U.S.-led coalition toppled the Taliban in late 2001, provincial Gov. Jan Mohammed Khan said. Off to Bagram with you two!
The troops also confiscated 40 rocket launchers, four AK-47 rifles and six grenades, Khan said. He identified one of the commanders as Mullah Sharafuddin. The other leader was not named. Khan said nearly 200 Taliban fighters were coweringskulking about hiding in the hills of Uruzgan district.
That would be Mullah Omar's bodyguard, when he's in town...
In a separate operation, the American helicopter fired a rocket at a pickup truck carrying civilians in southeastern Afghanistan, injuring at least three people, local authorities said Thursday. The truck was carrying six passengers when it came under fire late Wednesday at the Many Kandow Pass in Urgun district of Paktika province, said Khan Sayed, spokesman for the provincial police. The U.S. military said that the helicopter fired on a truck that was "speeding aggressively toward coalition forces engaged in combat operations" near Gayan. But the military did not report any injuries or deaths. Missed. Rats.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 1:08:33 AM ||
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You know we're slipping when we can't even kill innocent bystanders right.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:51 Comments ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
08/22/2003 8:58 Comments ||
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reports this AM that a spec ops guy was killed in Paktika. Presumably related to the above.
Seems like we're using Afghans in Oruzgan, our own troops together with Afghans in Paktika. Seem to be successful in Oruzgan. Also captured weapons cache in Khost. But Paktika seems to be where the toughest concentration of Taliban is operating.
JPost - Reg Reqâd
A hand grenade exploded in a mosque during the Friday sermon, killing two worshippers and injuring more than 30, a security official said. something accidently left in the offering plate?
The grenade was one of two thrown by a man later arrested, the official said, on condition of anonymity. The second grenade did not explode. oh, nope, typical excellent grenade handling...
The manâs identity was not released and his motives were not clear, the official said. He was being interrogated by police. Ow...hey...that hurts!
Seven of the wounded were in critical condition in a hospital in Omran province, some 120 kilometers (75 kilometers) north of the capital, Sanaa. Yemen has seen several terrorist attacks in the past few years.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 5:22:47 PM ||
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Please leave your shoes and grenades at the mosque door before praying.
Weapons smuggling from Yemen to Saudi Arabia is so commonplace that border police seize smuggled guns nearly every hour, the governor of a Saudi border province was quoted as saying Thursday. Smuggling? SMUGGLING? Iâm shocked, I tell you.
Saudi Arabia has often complained about smuggling from Yemen, a tribal country where illegal weapons trading is rampant and government crackdowns have had limited success. "Hey, you there, whatâs in the trunk of your limo car?"
"Umm, just some RPGs, five thousand rounds of ammo and a dozen land mines, effendi."
"AHA! Caught you! Donât you know that the limit on land mines is six? Abdul, arrest this man!"
"We intercept, on an average of every hour, weapons smuggling operation at the Yemeni border," Prince Mohammed bin Nasser, Jazan governor, told the London-based pan-Arab daily Asharq Al-Awsat. "This is an alarming phenomenon." Especially, these days, if youâre a prince.
Yemen, a hotbed for nutters militancy and the ancestral home of Saudi-born Osama bin Laden, has seen several terrorist attacks, including the USS Cole bombing in 2000 that killed 17 American sailors. It has since joined the U.S.-led war on terror after being threatened with the consequences. Last week, Saudi police arrested at least 11 suspected militants and seized a large weapons cache in Jazan, Saudi dailies reported. The two countries signed an agreement on June to coordinate border surveillance. "Iâm tellinâ ya, Mahmoud, you guys have to get better with this border stuff. Last month we caught 5% of your smugglers. Now are you going to get the remedial education going for these guys, or do we have to take the gloves off?"
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 1:22:35 AM ||
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Terrorist: Did this missle shipments from North Korea get through Yemen yet?
Terrorist 2: They came in last week.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:47 Comments ||
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so what is being smuggled? AK-47's or more serious stuff? And whats the price on each side of the border one wonders?
#3
LH, here's a report on one raid: A force of more than 200 security agents used tear gas and explosives on Friday to blast into a two-story building where the Saudi and Bangladeshi suspects were hiding in Karbos village, near the Yemeni border in Jazan province. The security forces found 93 bazooka rockets, more than 50 hand grenades, a number of machine guns, highly explosive chemicals, detonators and three security uniforms.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 9:53 Comments ||
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#4
Time to round up and torture more British and Canadians, I reckon
#5
Illicit arms seem to spread through osmosis throughout the ME once they are introduced in theatre. It would be better if some of the shipments "got lost" enroute.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 12:57 Comments ||
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Or 'accidently' sank to the bottom of the ocean.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 16:03 Comments ||
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Saudi Arabiaâs highest religious authority urged Muslims on Thursday to shun extremism and avoid waging unjustified jihad (holy struggle) as the kingdom cracks down on Islamist militants believed linked to Al Qaeda.
Define "unjustified"...
In a lengthy statement carried on the official Saudi Press Agency, Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul-Aziz al-Sheikh told Saudis to listen to their religious authorities and ignore fanatic interpretations of Islam or risk âbanning Godâs bountyâ. âOne of the fall-outs from extremism in understanding Islam is that some people call for jihad for the sake of God without justification,â Sheikh Abdul-Aziz said. Saudi Arabiaâs powerful religious establishment has been accused in the West of breeding militancy and hatred towards Christians and Jews. Senior clerics have also taken to the media to preach moderation among Saudis. âThese people want to raise the banner of jihad to draw the youth into their ranks and not to fight for God,â Sheikh Abdul-Aziz said. âMuslim youth must try and better themselves and their country but not through violence as Islam is not a violent religion, it is a merciful religion.â
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:05 ||
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welcome to the benefits of the "disastrous" (this morning's SMH had a lovely opinion piece whining about how it is a complete disaster) occupation of Iraq:
The Saudis actually are forced to crack down on their extremist elements and change their culture: otherwise we will change it for them!
hahahahaha
I think the mission in Iraq has been a complete success.
I complement the USA and Allies on their swift victory and I wish them success in building a country that will be the 'threat of the good example' in the middle east.
Most of all I hope the USA does occupation strongly and hardly not namby pambily weakly to pander to the bleeding-heart numbnuts at home. Otherwise it WILL end up the complete disaster.
More troops and more liberal rules of engagement please! Crush any resistance before it can organise. It's the only way to change the cycle of power in an Arab nation used to despotism.
#5
The Grand Mufti is the guy they trot out regularly to call for moderation. Nobody pays any attention to him. Watch the sermons in Mecca. MEMRI carries translations periodically, and Charles Johnson used to blog them regularly.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/22/2003 8:39 Comments ||
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I'm with Fred: I'll believe it will be taking effect when Charles at LGF can't find material for the weekly Religion of Peace Sermon summary he posts on fridays five weeks in a row.
AUSTRALIAâS new terror laws were unworkable and did not allow terrorist groups to be properly identified, Attorney-General Daryl Williams said today. tellinâ it like it is...
Mr Williams said under the laws passed earlier this year, groups could only be identified as terror organisations in Australia if they had first been recognised as such by the United Nations Security Council. And we all know how effecient the UN is at helping out in the WOT
However, the UN list was limited and did not represent all threats to Australia, Mr Williams said. As such amendments had been introduced into Parliament to remove the requirement for UN listing. Hooray! Now watch Labor under Simon Crean/Mark (i hate america) Latham, The Greens and The Democrats form a big ugly block and prevent sensible legislation from being passed.
"The United Nations Security Council has limited the proscriptions of (terror) organisations as such to those that are associated with al-Qaeda or the Taliban and there are no other organisations outside that that have been listed by the United Nations Security Council," he told a World Jurist Association congress in Adelaide today. wot a joke. So change your name and youâre free in Australia!
The Lebanon-based militia group Hezbollah, perceived to be a threat to Australiaâs interests, was not on the UN list, he said. The militia group has been identified in Australia as a terrorist organisation after a separate one-off piece of legislation was passed through Parliament specific to Hezbollah. But Hamas and Islamic Jihad, theyâre A-OK with us.
Mr Williams said he was unaware of any other country that was hindered by only recognising UN listed groups as terrorist organisations. "This is not a criticism of the Security Council, this is a recognition that Australia has its own interests independent of the Security Council and we must have the capacity to respond independently in defence of our interests," he said. "The Government believes this requirement (for UN listing) is unnecessary and in fact can impede Australiaâs ability to respond quickly to the threats posed by organisations identified by our own security agencies as terrorist organisations." TAKE NOTICE: this Attorney-general tells it like it is!
Posted by: Anon1 ||
08/22/2003 2:42:02 AM ||
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I believe the UN uses the Father Flanagan standard (There's no such thing as a bad boy) when judging terrorist organizations.
#2
This is prudent, inasmuchas the UN may decide later to confine itself to world-wide terror organizations without regard to local organizations that may threaten only one or two nations in a given region (and thus receive "cover" as armed "liberation" fronts composed of "Freedom fighters").
#3
--"This is not a criticism of the Security Council, this is a recognition that Australia has its own interests independent of the Security Council and we must have the capacity to respond independently in defence of our interests," he said.--
Uh oh, another rogue anglosphere nation on our hands.
A former senior intelligence analyst Friday accused Prime Minister John Howardâs government of exaggerating the threat posed by Iraq to justify sending Australian troops to war. Ho-hum. Someoneâs been taking lessons from the UK parliamentary âinquiresâ.
And the U.S. This seems to be the favored tack of the global anti-war/anti-Globalization coalition...
The claim came on the first day of a Senate inquiry into the intelligence used by Howard to justify sending 2,000 troops to fight alongside U.S. and British troops in Iraq and mirrored the problems facing President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
Yep. Quite a coincidence...
Andrew Wilkie, who quit as a senior intelligence analyst in March to protest the governmentâs support for war in Iraq, told the Senate that information passed to the government had been distorted for political purposes. ``The material was going straight from ONA to the prime ministerâs office and the exaggeration was occurring in there, or the dishonesty was occurring somewhere in there,ââ Wilkie told the inquiry. The ONA, or Office of National Assessments, is an elite agency which evaluates intelligence from all Australian and allied agencies to advise the prime minister. Asked if he was accusing Howardâs office of ``sexing upââ intelligence - a phrase seized on by British tabloids - Wilkie replied, ``Yes, it was sexed up.ââ Both Bush and Blair have come under similar charges. We saw how it turned out in the UK — not only did Blair not sex it up, the BBC got caught trying to claim it so.
In the United States, several former intelligence officials said that even as the Bush administration concluded Iraq was reviving its nuclear weapons program, key signs — such as scientific data of weapons work and evidence of research by Iraqâs nuclear experts — were missing. Yeah, how dare Bush accept less than 100% guarenteed proof before taking action?
Blairâs government has been under sustained fire over accusations it ``sexed upââ intelligence reports to justify going to war. In a speech to Parliament before fighting broke out in Iraq, Howard justified the war saying intelligence sources showed Baghdad had weapons of mass destruction and could give them to terrorists. Experts scouring Iraq have so far failed to find such weapons, leading opposition lawmakers to use their control of the parliamentâs upper house, the Senate, to demand an inquiry into Howardâs claims. Thereâs the key graf: this is just a political hassle. Move along, folks.
Howard said Friday the assessment made of Iraqâs weapons capacity was justified ``at the time.ââ ``We didnât ask that the intelligence material be distorted,ââ he said in a radio interview. In fact, Howard had not only Aussie intel, but also French, Russian, German, US and UK intel, plus all the reports from the UN inspectors from before 1998 and from Blixie. Each and every one of them said that Saddam was dirty. The anti-war nuts now blame Howard for relying on all that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 12:48:24 AM ||
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Amazing. The pictures of happy Iraqis beating Saddam Statues with the soles of their shoes silenced these nutters for all of 5 minutes. It's now attack attack attack on all fronts yet again.
When is Howard et al going to use the media to go on the offensive for once? Crush these cretins into the humiliation they deserve. Launch a parliamentary inquiry into why Greens Senator Bob Brown told an OUTRIGHT LIE when he said 500,000 Iraqi children would die in a US invasion... etc etc.
Launch a senate inquiry into why the Left supported a human-rights-abusing dictator over a democratic ally.
#2
Now how is the media supposed to be influential if they don't do what the Left says?
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:08 Comments ||
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Now how can the media be influential if nobody listens to what they say? If you keep sounding like a lunatic, people are going to start thinking you are a lunatic, and stop listening.
Posted by: Ben ||
08/22/2003 5:21 Comments ||
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I'm actually wondering what took them so long to use the BBC "I'm gonna sex you up" tactics against Howard. That, or they're starting to run low on ammo and are nursing what's left.
#5
In the United States, several former intelligence officials said that even as the Bush administration concluded Iraq was reviving its nuclear weapons program, key signs - such as scientific data of weapons work and evidence of research by Iraqâs nuclear experts - were missing.
Actually, plans and a prototype gas centrifuge was buried in back yards. See the post yesterday about the standard "Cleaner" services provided by the Cold-war Era Soviets to their clients to ensure nothing gets found (or traced back to them).
Liberals are so detatched from reality that they won't concede that there are difficulties in knowing 100% about anything, and so indulge in monday morning quarterbacking using 20-20 hindsight. They're very selective with their compassion, not bothering to extend it to people who have to make very hard decisions based on limited information gathered under conditions that the Liberals themselves made very hostile. They demand 100% certainty, then work like busy beavers to throw up barriers and conditions to ensure that 100% certainty cannot be obtained.
A peace rally has marked the end of a national gun amnesty in Solomon Islands. A crowd of about 7,000 people gathered at opposite ends of town and marched through the streets before congregating for the peace rally at the national soccer stadium.
I feel so touchy-feely...
At the stadium intervention force chiefs announced around 3,000 guns were surrendered during the three-week amnesty. A ceremonial gun destruction was led by Prime Minister Allan Kemakeza and intervention mission special coordinator, Nick Warner. The rally continues with a unity concert being staged this afternoon.
Ethel! Where are my bongos?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:27 ||
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I forgot the Solomons were even a nation. Hell, I never did know that they had a PM.
Why does this matter to us again?
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:10 Comments ||
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why it matters - aussies are nervous about the possibility of a failed state that close, and have intervened in the Solomon Islands. Important new assertive Aussie approach, and anything impacting Aussie security is important to the US, given that they're one of our closest allies now. Even if theres no Islamic connection.
#3
What the Aussies are staving off was laid out on the table months ago: A failed state provides an ideal ecology for militant terrorism needing a safe refuge. Do you want to retake the Solomons from common criminals who value their lives highly and have enough sense to surrender to save their hides, or from suicide bombers who value a virgin filled afterlife?
#4
How could they have peace without the involvement of Hollywood actors? I have heard nothing from Sean Penn concerning the Solomons.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:19 Comments ||
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Why does this matter to us again?
The Solomons are an island chain that stretches along the northern coast of Papua New Guinea and out into the Coral Sea. They stand across the shipping lane between the United States and Australia. Their importance was first discovered when the Japanese occupied them in 1942. Suddenly, there was a major threat to shipping between the US and Australia. The Guadalcanal campaign was fought primarily to halt this threat.
Today, it's more likely the threat would come from pirates who would be free to operate from Solomons bases if there wasn't a government capable of dealing with them. The collapse of the Solomon Islands government was a very real possibility until the Australians intervened.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/22/2003 15:30 Comments ||
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I'm not worried about pirates. They have these little fishing boats that can be run over by huge cargo ships.
Give the crew guns and just have them shoot down the side of the ship. Problem solved.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 16:11 Comments ||
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hello!
My grandfather fought in that Guadalcanal campaign, and frightening it was, too!
Yep, we can't have any more failed states and we must also show to those around us that we are now taking a proactive stance against potential threats. This ensures other nations have an incentive to clean up their acts, and keep the neighbourhood safe.
Fifteen people have been charged in connection with the assassination of Serbian prime minister Zoran Djindjic in March. "Fifteen people are accused of being directly implicated in the murder of former prime minister Zoran Djindjic and of terrorism," Serbia's Special Prosecutors Office said in a statement carried on Beta news agency. The names of those charged — the first people indicted in relation to the assassination — were withheld except for that of Milorad Lukovic, otherwise known as Legija, a former special police chief who remains at large. Forty-four people have been held on charges including murder, kidnapping and criminal association as a result of months of intense police investigations. Only 15 were charged with organising the assassination of Mr Djindjic, who was shot dead by a sniper as he left the main Serbian government building in Belgrade on March 12.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:25 ||
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Latvian police and customs officers have seized 28 tonnes of military hardware labelled as farm machinery and ready to be smuggled to Iran.
"Yep. Hit a coupla hectares with a half dozen o' them 152mm HE rounds and they're all plowed up..."
The $500,000 shipment contained spare parts for tanks, night-vision instruments and armament parts, including anti-aircraft systems, a police official said, adding military experts were still investigating the contents of the shipment. âAfter receiving information about the cargo, security police in cooperation with customs seized the cargo bound for Tehran in Iran,â Assistant Security Police Chief Kristine Apse told Reuters. âIt was then discovered that the cargo consisted of goods for military purposes.â Apse said military experts believe the cargo was equipment earlier used by Russia that was still in working order and sent to Latvia by a Russian company. Apse said the cargo was more likely to be destined for guerrilla organisations rather Iranâs regular military forces.
Like Hezbollah...
The United States accuses Tehran of arming and training militant Islamic groups across the Middle East. Iran strongly denies the charges and insists it offers only moral support.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:17 ||
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Great, just the world needed, more cheerleaders.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:19 Comments ||
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And what could be better for the morale of the terrorists than a shipload of weapons?
DOCUMENTS RECOVERED FROM THE Libyan national Abdul Rehman, who was shot dead by anti-terrorism force in heavily populated Hayatabad neighbourhood on the outskirts of Peshawar during an encounter on August 14, have provided âvital leadsâ to his other Al Qaeda associates, highly placed intelligence sources told TFT. âThe documents leave little doubt that Rehman was an Al Qaeda member,â said an intelligence official, adding: âHe was a highly trained man and served as a communications official among Al Qaeda members.â The documents included his Afghan passport and an ID card showing him to be an Afghan refugee. But the real breakthrough for the investigating officers â which they believe would be very useful in unearthing other Al Qaeda cells in Pakistan â are a âtelephone directoryâ and âa list showing who was provided how much moneyâ in dollars.
Those would both be very handy things, especially if somebody acts on the data right away, rather than letting it stale out. Sometimes the Paks do, if it doesn't impinge on some other obscure thing ISI has going, like subverting Afganistan or engineering a nuclear confrontation with India...
Officials are keeping the contents of the list secret for fear that it would compromise the entire operation but say they have got some very solid information on Rehmanâs other contacts in the country. âDisclosing their names will jeopardise our plans to catch them,â an investigative officer said. Rehman spoke Pushto fluently. He had come to Pakistan during the Afghan jihad and fought the Red Army along with the Mujahideen. He also had an MA. in Islamic studies from the Islamic University in Islamabad.
Whooo-wee! Them's impressive credentials! That and $24.95 will get you a green silk turban... And just as a technical note, the "Red Army" went away after WWII, when it became the Soviet Army.
Meanwhile, a row has erupted between the JI and Jamiat-Ulema-Islam, the other major party in the MMA, over who had authorised the raid on the alleged Al Qaeda suspectâs home. The JI has accused the JUI/MMA government in the NWFP of getting Rehman killed. The JI has also offered financial and legal support to Rehmanâs widow. TFT sources say the federal government took the MMA chief minister, Akram Khan Durrani, into confidence before the raid. The inspector-general police Riffat Pasha gave the âgo-aheadâ to the CID after the federal government had coordinated with Peshawar.
So Qazi's boyz didn't get advance notice to either quash the raid or give the guy advance warning. Bet that cheezed him...
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/22/2003 3:04:39 AM ||
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veru interesting - the govt is trying to play the MMA parties off against each other.
Also didnt realize quite how overt JI's defense of Al Qaeeda is.
Prime Minister Zafarullah Jamali arrived in the Saudi capital on Thursday to perform obeisance for talks with Saudi leaders on the situation in South Asia, the Middle East and Afghanistan. On his arrival, the prime minister said Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have common views on all issues. âWe have a long tradition of friendship between the two governments and peoples. We work with each other to reinforce regional peace, security and stability,â he said.
"We're more Arab than the Arabs! Wanna see me drink some camel's milk? Mmmmm!"
Mr Jamali, who will stay in Saudi Arabia for five days, said he would use his visit to tell his hosts about the situation in South Asia. They would also review the situation in the Middle East and discuss ways to strengthen the ties between Pakistan and the Saudi Kingdom. âWe are grateful to the kingdom and its leadership for their support to the Kashmiri people for the attainment of their inalienable rights,â he added.
"Without their money and our cannon fodder, it wouldn't be possible to keep the corpse count at the levels they've been at..."
He said his government took pride in its special relationship with the Saudis, and he looked forward to talks with Saudi leaders. The prime minister and his entourage were received at King Abdul Aziz International Airport by Jeddah Prince Mishaal Bin Abdul Aziz, Pakistani ambassador to Saudi Arabia Abdul Aziz Mirza, and senior officials of the Pakistan Consulate and Saudi government.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:05 ||
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Behind the scenes:
Prince Aziz: No, we have to crack down on extremism, now. No more Jihadis, we don't care about Kashmir
Jamali: Wha..? but Prince, that is UnIslamic of you!
Prince Aziz: Have you seen what just happened on our southern borders????
#4
Or join Pakistan in a treaty saying they will help fight India if war breaks out.
WW3 anyone?
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:30 Comments ||
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Anon1
I'm glad to read your postings. You seem to be quite a good bloke! There just ain't nothing like an Aussie watching your back for you. We've whipped worse than this motley crew of Islamists, and with Austrailian moxey on our side we will not fail this time either!
Good Day to you, Mate- from the USA Middlewest
Craig
The Kurram Agency administration on Thursday arrested an Iraqi national after he asked local tribesmen to give him weapons for âjihadâ in Afghanistan.
"Hey, man! Could you loan me a gun or two? I wanna go pot some Merkins across the border!"
An official source in Parachinar said Rad Mohammad Saghir was arrested when he stopped a private vehicle asking for weapons for âjihadâ.
"C'mon, man! Just one gun? How 'bout your RPG? You ain't usin' it..."
âThe tribesmen told us about the Iraqi who can speak Pushto, Urdu and English,â the official said. Mr Saghir was said to be in his 30s and carried an Iraqi passport. The official reported Mr Saghir said he came to Pakistan in 1997 and went to Afghanistan through Khyber Agency to join the Taliban. An official source told Daily Times Mr Saghir had no apparent links to Al Qaeda.
"He ain't no Qaeda. He's just a gun bum..."
âHe will be interrogated in more detail after he is brought from Parachinar to Peshawar,â sources said. Mr Saghir said after the Taliban collapsed in late 2001 he hid mostly in tribal areas.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:05 ||
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"Will jihad for ammo"
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 11:17 Comments ||
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Thousands of seminary students rallied in Islamabad on Thursday and vowed to resist any moves by the government to send troops to Iraq. About 5,000 seminary students shouted slogans denouncing the United States and Israel at a rally organised by the Jamiat Talaba Arabia. Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal leaders warned the government that sending troops to Iraq would lead to âanarchyâ.
As opposed to the rock-solid stability Pakland enjoys now...
âWe are telling the generals that we will stop them if they try to send troops to Iraq under the command of the United States,â Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed said. âThis will create a huge gulf between you and the people,â he warned President General Pervez Musharraf.
Boy, hasn't Fazl put on weight! Cut that sucker and he'll bleed lard. Qazi's standing next to him 'cuz Fazl makes him look slender and svelt...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:05 ||
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Yeah, it don't look like they miss too many cookouts.
#2
If Qazi looked like Fazl, that heart attack would have been fatal.
As to the Pak troops, for once the seminary students and I are in agreement -- I don't want Pak troops in Iraq either. Given their behavior and the ISI hooks, all sorts of bad things will begin to happen in any location they garrison.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 0:41 Comments ||
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If you want to know what the soddies really think, look at JI's official position.
A nice, well paid spokesman.. in some other country.
Via Drudge
Both U.S. soldiers claimed as captured by a previously unknown Iraqi group are safely in American hands and never were missing, Pentagon officials said Friday. The group claimed to have captured two American soldiers near Baghdad in a statement released to the Lebanese Broadcast Corp. One of the two soldiers is being treated at Brooke Army Medical Center in Texas and had lost his identification when he was injured by a land mine, military officials said. The other soldier also is safe in U.S. military hands, military officials said. LBC broadcast close-ups of the cards: one carrying the name of Capt. Katherine V. Rose of the 142nd Corps Support Battalion from Fort Polk, La., and a Pennsylvania driverâs license with the name Andrew C. Peters, 37. A call to the address on the driverâs license was answered by a person who hung up. Peters is the soldier being treated in Texas, and Rose also is safe, military officials said. The identification for Rose was not an official military ID and appeared to be a business card. The 142nd Corps Support Battalion, based at Fort Polk, is currently deployed in Iraq. Pentagon officials said the military was investigating the incident to determine how the previously unknown group got the cards. The typewritten statement from a group calling itself Al-Madina al-Munawara Division was delivered to LBC along with the two cards. The statement claimed the two Americans were wounded and captured when an Al-Madina unit attacked a convoy west of Baghdad. It did not say when or exactly where the attack took place. It warned British and Australian troops, as well as all other countries that may send troops to Iraq, that they will be subjected to attacks.
"We will steal the ID cards of the hated infidels! And then — hahah! — they won't be able to buy anything at the PX! No shaving cream! No deodorant! No cigarettes! Hahahah! We're merciless Islamists!"
The statement said Al-Madina Al-Munawara Division is made up of members of the former Iraqi army under the regime of Saddam Hussein. Saddamâs old Republican Guard, comprising some of Iraqâs best-equipped and most-dedicated troops, included a unit called Al-Madina al-Munawara. Literally, the name means "City of Light" in Arabic. Itâs also the formal name of the city of Medina, the second holiest city after Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Iraqis and Lebanese lying? Say it ainât so!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 12:56:04 PM ||
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D'oh - Mike wins!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 12:56 Comments ||
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A previously unknown Iraqi group obtained two U.S. soldiersâ identification cards and claimed to be holding them captive, but Pentagon officials said the soldiers were safe and had never been missing. A statement left with the two cards at a Lebanese Broadcast Corp. office on Friday claimed the Americans were captured in attacks near Baghdad. The station broadcast close-ups of the two cards, prompting the Pentagon to investigate. "The report is not true. Both soldiers are accounted for," said Spc. Anthony Reinoso, an Army spokesman in Iraq. One of the soldiers, Andrew C. Peters of Indiana, Pa., lost his Pennsylvania driverâs license when he was injured in a land mine explosion on Aug. 1, officials said. Peters, 37, was in surgery Friday at Brooke Army Medical Center in Texas, said Col. David Ellis, the hospitalâs acting commander. "He is doing very well," Ellis said. "We captured his driverâs license. If he donât have that he canât drive or buy booze, so he might as well be captured. That counts."
The other card bore the name of Capt. Katherine V. Rose of the 142nd Corps Support Battalion, based at Fort Polk, La. The battalion is currently deployed in Iraq. Rose also is safe, military officials said. The identification for Rose was not an official military ID and appeared to be a business card. "We filched it from the little fishbowl full of business cards at the Bob Evans in Tikrit. That counts as a âcaptureâ too!"
Pentagon officials said the military was investigating the incident to determine how the previously unknown group, calling itself Al-Madina al-Munawara SquadPlatoonCompanyBattalionRegiment Division, got the cards. The cards and typewritten statement were left in an envelope outside the door of LBCâs Baghdad office on Friday, said a news editor with the privately owned station in Beirut. The statement said Al-Madina Al-Munawara Division was part of re-established units of the "heroic Iraqi army to liberate our dear country." "We wanna liberate Iraq from liberty."
It threatened attacks against U.S. troops and soldiers sent to Iraq from other countries.
Posted by: Mike ||
08/22/2003 12:54:17 PM ||
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At least you don't have to feed and hide a bizness card...
EFLAmerican investigators looking into the suicide bombing of the United Nations compound on Tuesday are focusing on the possibility that the attackers were assisted by Iraqi security guards who worked there, a senior American official here said today. The official said all of the guards at the compound were agents of the Iraqi secret services, to whom they reported on United Nations activities before the war. The United Nations continued to employ them after the war was over, the official said. Now thatâs really dumb, even by U.N. standards.
The official said that when investigators began questioning the guards, two of them asserted that they were entitled to "diplomatic immunity" and refused to cooperate. Diplomats working in foreign countries are often entitled to immunity from prosecution by local authorities, but the official said the two guards could make no such claim. Investigators are continuing to question the guards, the official said.
"We believe the U.N.âs security was seriously compromised," the official said, adding that "we have serious concerns about the placement of the vehicle" and the timing of the attack. The bomb exploded directly under the third-floor office of the United Nations coordinator for Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello, while he was meeting with a prominent American human rights advocate, Arthur C. Helton. Both men were killed, along with several top aides to Mr. Vieira de Mello. Sounds like it was an inside job and he was the primary target.
In New York, a United Nations official reacted skeptically to the assertions. "All of us are trying to get to the bottom of this," said Fred Eckhard, spokesman for the secretary general, Kofi Annan. "In fact, the secretary general is sending his security coordinator to Baghdad this evening to investigate the bombing. But the task is not made easier by the conspiracy theories circulating. Weâll have to separate as best we can fact from speculation." You donât want the facts that youâre stupid revealed.
No one connected to the United Nations office in Baghdad, which was demolished in the bombing, could be reached for comment. The United Nations had a large presence in Iraq before the war, running the oil-for-food program and housing teams of weapons inspectors. And making a pretty penny from that program.
The American official said investigators were trying to determine which, if any, of the guards failed to report to work the day of the attack. Even before the war, the government of Saddam Hussein was widely known to assign intelligence agents to guard and guide foreigners visiting or living in the country. Suspicions have focused on the guards rather than other local United Nations personnel because their links to Mr. Husseinâs security service were close. Under the former government, they had to report to the security service once a week on the activities of United Nations personnel, western officials said. Even so, United Nations administrators retained the guards after Mr. Husseinâs government was removed. American officials said earlier this week that the administrators had also turned down an American offer to provide greater security around the building. Hope we have that in writing, I sure would have.
The American official also questioned the wisdom of United Nations officials who ordered the construction of a cement wall around the compound. In some places, he pointed out, the wall was just 12 feet from the building. Oh ho, so it was a U.N. wall, TV news had been saying the US was building it. I thought it was a little too close.
Tensions have repeatedly flared between the United States and the United Nations over Iraq. The United Nations has been confined to a marginal role in Iraq since the war, and had sought to project a sympathetic and approachable image to the Iraqi people, partly by shunning the heavy protection surrounding American troops and installations here. "Weâre the U.N., everybody loves us!"
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 9:13:15 AM ||
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And the chef-du-mission, M. Vieira de Mello, is unavailable for comment, being as he's dead.
#2
Is the UN really so deluded by it's noble self image that they think everybody loves them? That was some rude awakening Tuesday, wasn't it? Learn the lesson, idiots!
#3
So a wall to protect the UN is ok but one to protect the Joooooos is not?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 11:09 Comments ||
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tu3031, last Sunday there was an article in the Houston Chronicle by John S. Burnett, who is writing a book about relief workers in dangerous places.
While researching his book, he went to Baghdad and hung out with the UN people. He used to be with the World Food Program, and seems to have lost his journalistic objectivity in transit somewhere. He says
It was bound to happen. Those of us who spent time in the UN compound in Baghdad predicted it would happen and nervously joked that it was just a matter of time. It was such a soft target... Our only solace was the thought: Who would want to hurt the UN?
#6
You would expect some pretty naive actions by NGO's, but I'm not sure that continuing to use Sadaam approved security during a guerilla war with his forces qualifies as anything other than stupid. You would think that the UN - an institution that funnels about 90% of all donations into administrative costs - would be a little more hip to the dangers of criminal activity.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:39 Comments ||
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#7
This is the UN, not the US. They respect everyone until they're people get shunned or killed.
Reminds me like a 4-year-old crying for attention.
" Love Me "
" Do what I want to do "
" I don't want to do that "
And so on.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 16:39 Comments ||
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Japan appears more likely to delay sending troops to Iraq after the bombing of U.N. offices in Baghdad, with a defense official saying on Thursday no date has been set for a survey mission to pave the way for the dispatch. Tokyo's decision to send troops for a humanitarian mission had already prompted worries in Japan for their safety, but these have been fanned by Tuesday's suicide bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Iraq, which left at least 20 dead. Officials had said a final decision on the role of Japanese troops would be made after a fact-finding mission surveyed the situation in Iraq. The survey mission was expected to go this month, which would have paved the way for troops to be dispatched in October. A Defense Ministry spokesman said: "Nothing has been decided about the survey. The situation is still very fluid."
Defense Minister Shigeru Ishiba told reporters late on Wednesday that dispatching troops this year could be difficult. "Sending them within the year may be possible, but it's a fact that they are unlikely to be dispatched soon," he was quoted by the Yomiuri Shimbun as saying. "It will take some time for security to improve." But the Asahi Shimbun's English edition said bloodshed since President Bush declared major combat operations over on May 1 has frightened Japanese officials so badly that even the fact-finding survey has been postponed indefinitely. The Asahi quoted government sources as saying that if Japanese troops are sent to Iraq at all it will be next year at the earliest. "Difficult" translated into Japanese: "Muzukashii". The meaning of "Muzukashii" is "Cannot do".
Posted by: Anonymous ||
08/22/2003 3:19:41 AM ||
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the japanese have chickened out. Bombing the UN Headquarters was more devastating internationally than here in America we only care if our soldiers die and they didn't that day. But it showed to the rest of the world which still has high regard for the UN That the whole occupation has gone all wrong and they shouldn't get into the mess.
#2
The Japs are smart people. They don't like their people getting killed, I suppose they got infected by the "enola gay" virus.
Posted by: Murat ||
08/22/2003 5:03 Comments ||
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#3
Pilsbury Boy,since when do you care about American troops being killed,is it not you who snickers and cheers every time a U.S.trooper gets killed.
Murat,maybe you don't know.The word Jap is a racial slur and way beneth even your twisted mentality.
#4
really?
and here I thought jap was just the normal name shortening that often occurs in the english language... maybe you are making that up just to beat on murat?
#6
The "Enola Gay" virus? If only the Japs hadn't been resistant to the Manchurian Measles or the Nanking Flu, they wouldn't have had to endure The Enola vaccination. War really sucks when you reap your own whirlwind.
Jap is considered or used to be offensive, in the UK at least. N*p would have been offensive, not Jap.
Steveerossa, so the rest of the world is afraid to step in to help protect the UN personnel from real danger, when that organisation has pledged to stay in Iraq? Very admirable indeed. My sympathy meter for the UN twitched this week, but for Japan and others it's fallen a few notches.
#8
guess its a differece in US and UK usage. During watergate there was a mini-scandal about someone calling then Sen. Daniel K. Inouye a "fat Jap" Of course it was worse cause Inouye was not only a US citizen and Senator, but a disabled veteran of the US army (Italian front)the word Jap itself was still part of what was derogatory, IIRC. Perhaps relating to some really nasty WW2 era attitudes and proganda about "Japs". Presumably then Murat was following UK usage.
#9
Offensiveness may be in the ear of the listener too. I wouldn't rush to call a Japanese person "Jap" in the same way you'd call a British person a "Brit" or even an American "Yank", because Japanese prefer a greater degree of formality. Jap used as a thrid person identifier needn't be offensive in the slightest but might be directly. I suppose "N*p" derives from "Nippon", which I think the Japanese prefer, as the name of their country, to "Japan" (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe to our ears the n-word's insulting but to them might seem tactful...
#10
No real surprises here. Sounds like the Japanese are making like our other allies the Koreans - mutual defense treaties mean we get to protect them, but they never have to lift a finger to help us out. (At least the Koreans helped us in Vietnam - the Japanese have done nothing aside from ponying up cash for the first Gulf War). How do you say "feckless" in Nipponese?
#11
None of this will really matter. We need neither additional troops nor the "help" rendered by humanitarian agencies. Both Japan and Germany were pacified without either huge numbers of troops or aid agencies. The citizens of those countries rebuilt their land under American supervision. This is exactly what will happen in Iraq.
The media (including conservative commentators) are hyperventilating because Iraq isn't yet a prosperous liberal democracy, just four months of the conquest of Iraq. It's simply not going to happen that quickly. The timeline is decades, not years. Imposing a democracy does not function on internet time. (Actually, we've discovered that even the internet does not function on internet time - most of the businesses that sprang up in record time also died out in record time).
Bottom line - decades from now, when Iraq is a prosperous democracy, none of this will matter. The carping of today is just the usual wishful thinking by the anti-American media as well as handwringing by conservative commentators, who are starting to believe the Pravda-esque editorials of what are supposed to be news agencies.
#12
Murat and Stevey? Commenting on the same story? What a great moment in Rantburg history!
But, if an Armenian ice cream man shows up... it could get ugly. Stay out of the way!
#13
ZF - I think the Japanese and S.Koreans may have their hands full real soon now. Projecting forces thousands of miles eats up a lot of resources and the American's are about maxed out just handling what they have on the plate now without supporting large formations from other countries. The direct threat to them is a lot nearer and getting a lot more out of control. When your neighbor's house is on fire, its best to pay attention rather than worry about the one across town.
Murat - EG? Tough sh*t for the Japanese. In February 1945, the Japanese Imperial Forces in Manilia butchered tens of thousands of innocent civilian Phillipinos. No military target involved, just brutal butchery by bullet, bayonet, and barbwire rather than by an atom. Zero sympathy. And since you are the one dragging in history, we'll just add that event in with the treatment of innocent Armenians and Ionian Greek civilians in your recent history as well. Seems a lot of human beings are less than perfect. However, when compared to the rest of humanity, I'll take the American record to any major country or civilization in history.
Posted by: Don ||
08/22/2003 10:19 Comments ||
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#14
Now why would murat be defaming Jewish American princess's?
Murat's just echoing the standard Muslim rant that the atomic bombing of Japan justifies any massacres Muslims conduct against us, including 9/11 and perhaps a nuclear attack on an American city in the future. It's a little disappointing, but the Turks look like they're moving in the direction of Iran, at a time when other Muslim countries are moving the other way.
#16
I'll take the American record to any major country or civilization in history
Yep if we don't count the extinguished Indians and slavery the coca cola civilization is not that bad
Posted by: Murat ||
08/22/2003 12:18 Comments ||
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#17
Japanese massacres of Filipinos - My entire family were eye-witnesses of the massacres in Manila. I grew up on the site of a major massacre, and went to school on the site of another. And this was not only in Manila either, it happened in dozens of provincial towns and villages, and the victims were in the hundreds, not tens, of thousands.
#18
Cocacola civilization is certainly better than civilzation of rape and impaling.
Seems you have forgotten about the dozens of nations enslaved and at times exterminayted by the Turks. And for what? For having people fill Arab coffers through the Hadj business and after centuries of shedding your blood for them the Arabs backstabbed you. Can you spell suckers.
#19
the word nip (correct, short for Nippon) to my ears sounds "period" IE i cant really recall hearing it outside of films and TV shows relating to WW2. Its just not used anymore, even by people who dont like Japanese or Japanese-Americans.
C'mon, buddy, cool down a little. Yeah, we had slavery--but we also had abolitionists who put an end to it. (Ever hear of Abraham Lincoln? Ulysses S. Grant? The Army of the Potomac?) We were rough on the American Indians--but no rougher (and actually much gentler) than a lot of other colonizing civilizations were on their indigenous populations (e.g. Cortez in Mexico). As for the Coca-Cola, well, we don't force anyone to drink it, not even among ourselves. (I'm a Mountain Dew man, myself.) If you don't like Coke, there are alternatives.
Posted by: Mike ||
08/22/2003 12:35 Comments ||
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#21
Yep if we don't count the extinguished Indians and slavery the coca cola civilization is not that bad
We did not extinguish the Indians. They intermarried extensively with the European settlers, such that many Americans with deep roots here have Indian blood. The Turks did the same thing with the conquered Byzantines, with occasional massacre and ghastly torture of Christians who would not submit. And then there was the Armenian genocide, where Turks killed an estimated 1 million Armenians.
On slavery, it's an institution that continued throughout the Turkish-ruled Ottoman empire after it had been abolished in the US in the mid-19th century. It was abolished in Saudi Arabia only in the mid-20th century, and is still practised in some Muslim countries, most notably the Sudan, where Muslim Arabs continue their thousand-year tradition of capturing and keeping slaves from other religious groups - in this case Christian blacks.
Murat's quoting from the standard jihadi screed, and he's from Turkey, a supposedly moderate Muslim country. I shudder to think about what they might consider extreme.
#22
At the end of WWII, the name was changed from Nippon to Nihon. The sound is not greatly different, but the semantics are almost opposite. I don't remember the meaning of Nippon, but Nihon means 'book people'. That was one of several changes made to the language following the war.
For an emotional reference, my friends in the PRC also object to our having nuked Japan. However, I got the distinct impression that it was more based on jealousy than opposition. Three generations later the wounds still haven't healed.
#23
For an emotional reference, my friends in the PRC also object to our having nuked Japan.
Actually, it's part of the same rationale that the jihadis give - that we should have invaded Japan instead of dropping the nukes. This is the standard Chinese propaganda on the issue.
The background is a lot more complicated, of course. Without the nukes, we would probably have fought on until 1948, another 3 years. We may have had to invade the Chinese mainland, where a lot of Japanese industry and most of the Japanese Army was located, after the conquest of the Japanese archipelago. It was estimated that at least a million additional American troops and over ten million Japanese would die in the invasion. Given this context, the atomic bombings were a small price to pay.
Of course, the Chinese are not exactly particularly squeamish about killing enemy civilians. Every Chinese civil war has been accompanied by civilian massacres in the cities taken. Tibet's Buddhist monasteries were subjected to aerial bombing by the PLA Air Force when the lamas refused to submit.
Bottom line - the atomic bombings of Japan were not simply necessary - they were beneficial for all sides, including the survivors of the bombings*. And the Chinese have no moral grounds for criticizing the US - their cruelty in war simply exceeds anything Americans have ever done.
* Their alternative was complete annihilation in a fight to the finish with US forces. The dead weren't dealing with anything they wouldn't have encountered as kamikazi's anyway.
#24
Although they can't be counted on for troops, can we still list them in the "Coalition of the Willing" to keep the numbers respectable.
It's OK they'll pick up the slack in Korea and Taiwan for us.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:43 Comments ||
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#25
Only when their own ass is on the line. Seems to be popular among the UN today too.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 15:45 Comments ||
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#26
murat -you cannot blame america for slavery. slavery is something that was around before america. it is, unfortunetly, part of the human nature to destroy.hell the nations of africa praticed slavery on each other before any whiteman set foot there. yes we did our part but you cannot simply pass off this on america. and in doins so you ignored the comment on armenia and the ionian greeks. what is it, it's ok to point out america's historical problems but not confront your own?
#28
Dishman, sorry to be pedantic, but "Nihon" and "Nippon" are the same word (Japanese Kanji Characters) pronounced slightly differently.
There was in fact a change in pronounciation postwar, not sure of the exact reasons, but I am sure because people wanted to disassociate themselves from the prewar nationalism.
And "ni" = "sun", "hon" = "base".
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
08/22/2003 17:09 Comments ||
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#29
The 2 atomic bombs used in Japan probably saved 10 million Japanese from imminent starvation. The B-29s being used to mine the Inland Sea and coastal waters sealed off most metropolitan areas from their food supply.
#30
if we don't count the extinguished Indians and slavery the coca cola civilization is not that bad
If you consider that both were over 100 years ago, this isn't such a damning statement. 100 years of "not that bad" is better than most civilizations can claim.
The nuking of Japan is a complicated issue. By any normal standard, it really was a war crime. It actually pales compared to the firebombing of the top 60 Japanese cities which preceded the atomic bombings... the firebombings killed more civilians than both nukes did. And civilians were definitely the targets.
On the other hand, the ground invasion would not only have cost many more American lives, it would have meant the extinction of the Japanese culture. The atom bombs allowed the Japs to surrender. They would have died to the last woman and child, and even they say so.
As the LOML is a native Japanese, I would also point out that "Jap" is one of those terms where the slur is in the context. You can say Jap in a friendly tone, like "Brit" or "Mick" or even "Turk", and be fine. Say it with a sneer or in a pejorative context and you will have an angry... jap. NOT a pretty picture, I can assure you.
Those wishing just desserts on the Japanese for sins of the fathers are no different than those blaming US children of the 60's for slavery or the Crusades. It's over, the Japanese have been on our side for the last 58 years (time to set those clocks ahead!), and most cultures have a period they would rather forget. Contrast Jap behavior in WWI or the Boxer Rebellion, and even for the most part the R-J War, to Nanking, and you get a more complete picture.
Posted by: Mark IV ||
08/22/2003 19:32 Comments ||
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#31
Where is Aris when you need him?
Posted by: Brian ||
08/22/2003 22:52 Comments ||
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Hambali, the captured leader of Al Qaedaâs southeast Asian operations, has denied reports he planned to bomb a 21-nation summit in Bangkok to be attended by US President George W Bush, The Australian newspaper reported Thursday.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't me."
The paper, quoting an Asian intelligence officer who has questioned Hambali since his capture in Thailand last week, said the militant was plotting instead to bomb foreign embassies and other targets in Bangkok.
Oh. Well. That's different.
Thai officials earlier said Hambali had been planning an attack on the October summit meeting of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation group, APEC. And US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said at the weekend that there were still concerns Hambaliâs group could target the summit. But the officer quoted by The Australian said Hambali denied this.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:13 ||
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Everytime I see the name, I picture this guy in Gitmo entertaining his boys, wearing a tux, pulling rabbits out of top hats and yanking colorful scarves out of his sleeves. And the crowd goes wild just before they beat him to death for being blasphemous to the Prophet.
"Hambali" just doesn't put the fear in me. Sorry.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:13 Comments ||
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#3
tu3031: The Great Hambali... He had the audience in the palm of his hand until he turned the goat into a scantily-clad maiden.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/22/2003 8:26 Comments ||
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#4
Um hmm. And where ELSE where would the heads of state coming to the meeting stay for the night if they desired secure communications with their capitals?
Indonesian Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir on Thursday emotionally denied any knowledge of the terror group he is accused of leading and said the âterrorist state of Americaâ had stage-managed his treason trial.
I confess. I did it.
Bashir, in a fiery defence speech, also warned judges they will go to hell if they convict him and told prosecutors to repent for aiding âthe infidel enemies of Islam.â
"You'll bu-u-u-u-urn for eternity! Repent! Repent, ye sinners!"
Prosecutors say Bashir heads the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) regional terror group, which is believed linked to Al Qaeda. Bashir, who wept at one point, said âhypocriteâ states such as the US, Australia and Singapore had targeted him because he wants Islamic sharia law in Indonesia. âThe hypocrites and the secular, if they are entrusted with government power, their programmes are to destroy Islam, arrest people who are fighting for Islamic sharia, set up stage-managed trials so that they can detain them as long as possible or kill them,â he said.
Most of us here in the U.S. sit up nights, plotting different ways of staving off shariah in Indonesia...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:10 ||
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#1
Actually, Bashir is right. I do want to destroy his brand of Islamism.
Of course, I support 100% the right of Moderate Muslims to go about their business unmolested, I support their right to worship, I support their Mosques!
But Bashir's brand of hate-America, hate-Kaffir, hate-Moderate Muslims, fanatical Islamism? Yes, I want to crush that off the face of the earth. And Shariah as a legal, political law of the land? Yes I want that stamped out, too.
Oh, wait, this isn't the DNC? My bad, go ahead and crush him.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:44 Comments ||
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#3
Um... how is fighting militant Islam racist? I thought Islam made no distinction in skin tone. Or maybe I am thinking of more those more moderate forms of Islam.
Posted by: Ben ||
08/22/2003 5:44 Comments ||
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#4
They don't make any distinctions in skin tones until the Tanzanians and Kenyans and Somalis start moving into Mecca.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/22/2003 8:28 Comments ||
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#5
Bashir has been weeping like a little girl, then raging against the judges. IMHO the nutbag's realized he's toast, and is losing his tenuous grip on reality. Have fun in prison lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 10:43 Comments ||
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#6
Prison? Just shoot him in the head and get it over with. Stop waasting money with useless trials.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 15:22 Comments ||
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#7
Now hold on there, Charles. If Indonesia wants to waste time and money and hold trials so they can show off their cute little judge wig-thingies, well then, let 'em. The images I've seen truly are, uh, er, um, incongruous. That means the same as "cute" right? Yeah that's the ticket.
Bashir's a cleric - which means pimp in its application. If only he had enuff tears to go around for those he's helped murder, he'd strike a sympatheic figure. But alas, they are only for himself, so drop the "sym", he's just plain pathetic. Kill the little prick.
Ironically, for this administration above all others, taking Arab public opinion seriously cannot be considered either a luxury or a concession to "Arabists" lurking in the bureaucracy. It is instead crucial to the success of the administrationâs own strategy, which links U.S. security to a democratic and liberal transformation of the region. The Bush teamâs practice, however, has worked against its stated goals, largely because it has been based on misguided assumptions about the Arab world.
One such assumption is that Arabs respect power and scorn attempts at reason as signs of weakness -- and so the way to impress them is to cow them into submission. Another assumption is that Arab public opinion does not really matter, because authoritarian states can either control or ignore any discontent. Still another is that anger at the United States can and should be disregarded because it is intrinsic to Islamic or Arab culture, represents the envy of the successful by the weak and failed, or is simply cooked up by unpopular leaders to deflect attention from their own shortcomings. And a final, increasingly common notion is that anti-Americanism results from a simple misunderstanding of U.S. policy. Together, these concepts have produced an approach that combines vigorous military interventions with a dismissal of local opposition to them, offset by occasional patronizing attempts to "get the American message out" (through well-intentioned but ineffective initiatives involving public diplomacy, advertising, and the promotion of radio stations featuring popular music). Not surprisingly, the result has been to alienate the very people whose support the United States needs in order to succeed.
The United States needs to approach regional public diplomacy in a fundamentally new way, opening a direct dialogue with the Arab and Islamic world through its already existing and increasingly influential transnational media. Such a dialogue could go a long way toward easing deep-seated anger over perceived American arrogance and hypocrisy and could address the corrosive skepticism about Washingtonâs intentions, which colors attitudes toward virtually everything the United States does. It might also help nurture the very kinds of Arab liberalization that the Bush administration claims to seek.
#1
Im not sure that the assumption that arabs respect power implies that they scorn attempts at reason - merely that reasoning must start from a base of power, and not from real or apparent weakness.
Also I would say that there is a real misunderstanding of American policy. Certainly there seems to be very little realization of the pressure the US has put on Israel to refrain from action in the face of provocation. There are certainly a wide range of misconceptions in the region - look at the large number of people who expected Israel to expel the Palestinians during the Iraq war, or who think that 9/11 was a US and/or Israeli conspiracy. In that context its not unreasonable to think that there is also misunderstanding of more subtle aspects of American policy. Itt is also true that there is great deal of incitement in the region - often from sources like the Egyptian press and Saudi clerics that are effectively under govt control.
#2
I DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE CORRECT. THERE IS NOT MISUNDERSTANDING IN THE PART OF THE ARAB WORLD. THEY WANT WORLD DOMINATION AND IT IS IN THE OPEN IN THE ARAB PRESS. THEIR LIES ABOUT BEEN VICTIMS BY THE AMERICANS AND THE ISRAELIS. IS FOR US, STUPID INFIDELS.
#3
Slim, what is there to "misunderstand"? Islamic radicals blow things up (and the people unfortunate enough to be near-by). Islamic radicals preach that Americans and other "infidels" must either be converted or killed. Islamic radicals openly speak of one day dominating the globe and enforcing their beliefs upon others.
There isn't any room or need for dialogue with those blind enough to think that way.
What percentage of the population are Islamic radicals? 1%, 5%, 10%? We have proven, and rightly so, we can kill that 10%.
That leaves 90% of the Muslim world that are not interested in violence and, I would venture, are eager to have a good relationship with us. I think that the ultimate success of our efforts lies in strengthening that population. Why fight the radicals when we can a moderate, US friendly population would eagerly do it instead.
To bring that state of affairs about, we must engage the moderates. They need a political vision of their own success. Brow beating them will not cause them to accept a vision friendly to us. Only leadership and listening, which require pride swallowing, will bring them to our vision. Beating the moderates up in forums like this does not help.
Murat is telling us something in his distrust and frustration. Ask yourself, would it not be better to have him as an ally instead of an enemy. Someone who could take our case to the Muslim world in its own language. In your desire to score points, are we instead turning away potential allies like Murat?
#5
Murat has expressed that his distrust is based heavily on a sense that Turkish troops were betrayed during the Korean war. Whatever the truth of that, i doubt that most of whats going on in Turkey is explained by that, and certainly none of whats going on the rest of the world. Murat may be a nice guy, but I dont think hes real representative of the muslim world. I could be wrong of course/
#6
Slim - but the question is how to reach out to the moderates? What is nature of the dialogue and with whom? Far too often we hear that its not the US "they" hate, its the US policies? Which policies? supporting Musharaff? Supporting change in Iran? Almost every such policy is appealing to some in the muslim world but not to others. The policy that people who make that case most often bring forward is US policy toward Israel. All our problems in the muslim world are attributed to that. So when someone says that explaining our policies better wont help, the implication seems to be that we must change our policies - IE press Israel to do things dangerous to its security, in order to avoid losing the 90% (though i fear the number is lower) of moderates in the muslim world. Many of us have a lot of problems with that. Aside from being a deep injustice, it would show - well - weakness - and would therefore NOT advance our cause.
Should we engage in dialogue - YES. Should we better explain our policies - YES. Should we especially emphasize nationbuilding in Afghanistan and elsewhere - YES. Should we dump our allies in a vain bid to influence opinion - NO.
#7
Well - this is Rantburg, so ...
I don't give a f&*k what they think or want anymore. Any culture that devalues themselves so much as the Paleo death cults, the Paki jihadis, the Syrian islamonazis, the corrupt Soddy "princes", the honor killings, the march back to the 7th century, the subjugation of women and girls, the efforts at keeping the population ignorant and obediant to half-educated clerics has NOTHING to teach me and absolutely NOTHING that I owe it. F**k their cultural sensitivity. If Israel and the U.S. were as bad as they fantasize (to justify their stupid jihads and fatwas) we'd have dropped MOABs on Faluja and Tikrit and Gaza and the West Bank. Riyadh would be a smoking hole and Americans would be telling the Soddys where and how much to drill and tip them a nickel for the effort.
thank you, but I prefer a superior culture, and I'm not apologizing for it. Carrot time's over...Cluestick is out of the holster....
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 16:53 Comments ||
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#8
btw - thank you Fred for letting me vent - $25 in the tipjar
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 17:06 Comments ||
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#9
Frank, I feel better just having read that rant.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/22/2003 17:09 Comments ||
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#10
"Moderates" my ass, Slim! TRULY "moderate" people speak out in DISGUST when radicals blow things up and kill people. Yet all one hears is the endless echo of SILENCE from the Mosques in this country and abroad whenever these whack-jobs strike.
There is NOTHING "moderate" about cowardice (if THAT is what causes them to refrain from rebuking the radicals). Screw them, screw any culture that is so f*cked up that it behaves in such a manner, and screw wasting valuable time and energy on a culture that has proven to be backwards in every measurable respect (human rights, human expression, science, technology, academics etc).
#12
"Cluestick is out of the holster.... And then what? Cluestick has been out of the holster and it is not working. Frankly Frank, we are failing."
Posted by: Slim 2003-8-22 5:34:25 PM
Yeah, sure Slim. Its a quagmire I tell ya! (Take another look. And stop pretending that your supposed "enlightened" approach to dealing with these thugs has any merit--for all of your bluster about "understanding", you overlook the fact that YOU are just another INFIDEL to them and that they'd just as soon kill you as they would any of the rest of us.)
#13
think so? Ask Saddam? OBL? Mullah Omar? Iran? Assad? Bandar? Having 130,000 armed troops on their borders is starting to sink in...
"not working" sounds like ver 2.0 of the Quagmire complaint.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 17:40 Comments ||
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#14
Slim:
Pursuing Flaming's point: Please give examples of "moderate" forces in the Islamic world that are actively speaking/doing something to oppose the Islamofascists ? And, then explain how those examples represent "90%" of the population, not simply a brave handful of individuals you can count on your fingers.
Frank G.: Thanks dude, you made my day too !
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
08/22/2003 17:41 Comments ||
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#15
Flaming Swords - some kinda deja vu, huh?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 17:41 Comments ||
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#16
No doubt Frank! Slim probably thinks the UN could solve all of this by simply holding a conference on the matter where every country could share their "feelings" on the matter!
#17
the conclusion about 'opening a direct dialogue' is basically psychobabble. There is more than one 'arab' viewpoint and more than one 'american' viewpoint. This makes a dialogue fundamentally impossible or irrelevent.
#18
You are making my point for me. The diatribes do little good beyond short-term emotional gratification while they alienate any one who dares to think differently. Is our current policy going to get the results you desire?
#19
"Is our current policy going to get the results you desire?"
Posted by: Slim 2003-8-22 6:08:07 PM
Let's see:
Iraq--moving towards democratic society
Saddam--in hiding or dead
Iran--destabilized
OBL--dead or cowering in a cave without electricity, running water, and the ability to coordinate attacks
Yeah, current policy seems to be working just fine!
#20
The diatribes do little good beyond short-term emotional gratification while they alienate any one who dares to think differently.
Muslim diatribes and lies are something they really need to think long and hard about. Just as it was impossible to meet the Soviets halfway - it is also impossible to meet "moderate" Islam halfway - this so-called Muslim moderation is the product of wishful thinking in the West. We accept their lies and they become friendly with us. I don't think so. Like that other discredited system, Communism, they should accept our truths, and we'll become friendly towards them.
#21
The Arabs want respect but as an American I find it hard to provide respect to anyone who calls me an imperialist. It insuslts my intelligence. If I wanted to build an empire, I certainly wouldn't start with Afghanistan. Half way across the world seems kind of far to go to annex a contry whose greatest naterual resource is an abundance of landmines. If America wanted an empire, we would grabe the Bahamas or something else in teh Carribean, a place with nice beaches. You know a good vacation place with a Callypso atpmosphere. Bahrain might seem like the playboy mansion to a Saudi, but frankly I prefer Brazil for a vacation.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 18:15 Comments ||
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#22
it was impossible to meet the Soviets halfway...
We never invaded the USSR and we worked very hard at building a coalition called NATO. To alienate our allies with "Axis of Weasels" cracks was unthinkable then (even when the French caused us fits). How does such behavior help our cause now?
And if they don't? How do you convince them of our truths?
give examples of "moderate" forces in the Islamic world
Every joe on the street who spends most of his time watching the news and wondering instead of bombing us. They are the audience we need to win.
Let's see: Iraq--moving towards democratic society
I hope. And I wish luck to every soldier and worker trying to establish it. I suspect they spend most their time trying to build productive relationships. I wish their were 10 more divisions like them interacting every day with the arab world. They are our best ambassadors.
#25
Our military's professional actions and attitude are something the Arabs should want as role models, instead we hear they "seethe" and the arab street "boils with anger". When you treat a child who throws tantrums without reason, is it wise, Slim, to give him exactly what he wants at every turn? Or to use discipline and fairness to demonstrate that there are rules, actions/consequences? Cuz I see the arab world as children, throwing tantrums, welcoming a strongman as Daddy, and needing a real adult to model themselves after. Just as with children, this "quagmire" won't be a 4 month model, and giving in is a recipe for failure. I reject your theory, sorry
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 19:06 Comments ||
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#26
We never invaded the USSR and we worked very hard at building a coalition called NATO.
We never invaded the USSR, but we never ceased to confront them in every proxy war they launched against non-Communist states. Reagan pioneered the concept of rollback to reverse some of the losses incurred during detente. The so-called NATO "alliance" was a mechanism for us to insert ourselves into any Soviet invasion of Europe, that was in no way reciprocal except in theory.
To alienate our allies with "Axis of Weasels" cracks was unthinkable then (even when the French caused us fits). How does such behavior help our cause now?
Allies? What allies? They're neutrals, not allies. Allies are people who actually contribute front-line forces. These guys are contributing token forces, hoping that we'll remember them if they ever run into trouble. And the morons that we are, we still have mutual defense pacts with these fair weather friends.
Way before the New York Post coined the term the Axis of Weasels, Europeans were calling Americans arrogant, imperialist and oil-obsessed. Bush was called simplistic, Hitler, a moron and a bastard by senior "allied" officials. By comparison, the Axis of Weasel term simply conveys the idea of disloyalty, and it was put forth by a tabloid paper. Compared to the filth spilled forth by European papers, the New York Post tweak is such a nit that only someone predisposed to anti-Americanism would see it as remotely significant.
Europeans papers and academics did not hide their contempt for the US even before 9/11. Now that our papers, which were previously oblivious to European hatred, are making some tart remarks about them, Slim wants to tell us off for saying that we feel betrayed? Maybe he should move to Europe.
#27
And if they don't? How do you convince them of our truths?
We don't - we convince them that they had better bury their hatred for us in a deep dark place rather than attack us - the alternative being their annihilation. Dialogue did not work with Japan and Germany and it won't work with Muslims, whose specialty is attacking civilians.
Every joe on the street who spends most of his time watching the news and wondering instead of bombing us. They are the audience we need to win.
We'll never win them, any more than we'll win over the KKK or the Socialist Workers Party here. If we do not overrun their countries and kill large numbers of them, the best we can manage is a cold peace. Their countries indoctrinate hatred for America from the day they start school. The only way we'll change their minds if we conquer them and rewrite their history books, the way we did with Japan and Germany. They'll reform, but only at the point of a gun.
Note that Murat, a supposedly "moderate" Muslim, still holds to the "facts" he learned in school that are incontrovertibly wrong, and Turkey is an "ally". The virulence of the filth taught in non-allied countries will have to be read to be believed.
These guys are standing aside not because of any particular goodwill towards the US. Contrary to bin Laden's assertion, Muslims do not love death as we love life. The truth is that they're a bunch of backshooters, brave when they manage to get the jump on their victims and cowardly if confronted. Millions of Japanese fought to the last man, refusing to surrender even when their commanding officers were killed in action. The Muslim will take every opportunity he can to surrender. There were 100 million Japanese, of whom millions fought to the finish. There are 1 billion Muslims, of whom maybe tens of thousands perished, most involuntarily under a hail of bombs. Whatever word anyone might associate with Muslims, courage should not be one of them.
I still don't follow you. I would rather have 10 rowers in my boat instead of me alone spinning in circles.
An example of how an ally helps:
When the soviets deployed SS-20 missiles in the late 70's, the Reagan administration wanted to deploy Pershing II and cruise missiles in Europe. The European left wing mounted a camapaign to stop it.
Two of the crucial players in making it happen in the end: Francois Mitterand and Helmut Kohl. To quote from "Architects of Victory: Six Heroes of the Cold War" by Joseph Shattan:
"In 1983, Mitterand emerged unexpectedly as the chief European supporter of the American plan to deploy intermediate range missiles. Mitterand campaigned for the missiles."
Reagan's plans could have been thwarted without these allies.
I don't see how we are going to win without allies. Would we have won let alone fought without Kuwait? or Egypt? Yes Egypt, 90% of the war materials came through the Suez canal. Even Germany was a sleight of hand ally in this war. We moved beaucoup soldiers and material through Germany. With good allies all is possible, without, we are on thin ice.
Are we building allies by our actions or are we ruining possibly fruitful relatioinships?
Especially with a meager 10 divisions. An
invasion of Iraq without an invasion of Syria and Iran was not a good idea. Why is George Bush afraid to ask us to sacrifice? Why does he not expand the Army. Is there no active planning for post-war?
Maybe he should move to Europe
Been there, done that. I am an ex cold-warrior like my pa before me. I have seen ally building up close. It takes time and effort. Why are we unwilling to make the effort?
#29
Slim, although I understand your rowers in a boat analogy, that overdoes it. (In fact, we were 38 rowers at one point before I lost count, and our boat moved quite fast after we finally left the French limpdick standing on the shore shouting impotently at us)
In fact, as you point out, we were successful in the war due to the assistance of several nations.
So, what's your point ? Clearly, we are doing something right. We can't necessarily win over everybody all the time, and I and many other Americans have come to realize that the price required to win over everybody is not justified by the return. (referring to the UN security council vote last winter before Iraq)
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
08/22/2003 20:37 Comments ||
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#30
Slim >> Sorry to be the military history geek, however, the US did invade Russia.
The American "Invasion" of Russia
A little known episode in American history is the landing of American troops in Russia to fight the communists. The United States, along with Canada, Great Britain, France, and Japan became entangled in the civil war which followed the Bolshevik revolution. It was World War I and the Soviet government had negotiated a peace treaty with Germany removing them from the war. America and its allies joined with the White Russians, who promised to stay in the war, to fight the Red Army. To Americans, this campaign is a little known minor incident of World War I. But to the Russians, this was the "American invasion."
If anyone has ever trained at NTC (the National
Training Center) at Ft. Irwin, you've fought against "The Polar Bears". This regiment were those "invaders". Ironically, they play as the opposing forces (OPFOR) (the Russians) for training purposes.
Frank G >>> Psssssst! This Bud's for you.
The problem with most people in the touchy feely, warm hug camp is that they simply cannot think outside of thier own box.
Tribal Arabs don't think like us.
Liberians (with those fancy wigs and canibalistic practices) don't think like us.
France, (and their people who are too stupid to drink enough water) don't think like us.
They simply don't hold the values that the western world does.
These people "moderate" or otherwise won't be happy until everyone is praising Alf-Alpha. It's kind of like a religious version of communism. Except there is no room for dissent because you're disobeying God and not merely the state. How dare you say God is wrong. Surely then you must be punished (read as killed).
Don't you find it slightly odd that it tooks all of these long years of terrorist activities before these Chief Hoopla Clerics in Saudi declare that it's "not cool" to be radical? Did the Riyadh bombing and the fear of a general uprising and government overthrow help them "discover" this?
The fact is, It's gonna be long. It's gonna be bloody, and things will happen in the future that will make the 9-11 attack look like a water ballon fight. These people only understand the power of force. Read the regions history. Those who forget it are doomed to repeat it.
Last Note: From a military standpoint, the operation is going splendidly. Even combined with the first Gulf War and the Afghan War, casualties are still extremely light. The press just need to sell papers and the Democrats will do anything to get out of the dog house with the voters. (Now that last part is truly a "chaotic quagmire of incompetance" if I've ever seen one.
Posted by: Paul ||
08/22/2003 20:46 Comments ||
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#31
Slim, your comments are very well put and I commend you for them. I might even be of a mind to negotiate with the Arab world if I hadn't spent most of 911 frantically trying to find out which of my friends were alive and which were dead; or if I hadn't smelled the stench in the city a few weeks later. My number's in the book -- if "moderate" Arabs want to negotiate with me they can effing call me. The great disgrace of 911 is the utter failure of Arab moderates unequivocally to condemn (and act against) the actions taken on 911, and I'm a long way from forgiving them for that.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/22/2003 20:55 Comments ||
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#32
Paul, Matt, Flaming Sword - thank you - I figured I'd get a flame back but what the f*&k? :-) ...we hold certain truths, right? I don't understand this "we can all get along" curriculum when the other side's not even interested in teaching it....
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 20:56 Comments ||
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#33
You win. I bow down before your conviction. I hope you are right.
#34
*Yawns* Back on Topic. The essence of the article is a rehash of the "We Arabs are misunderstood, and it's YOUR FAULT! It is YOUR FAULT that you do not have a centralized propaganda program like us. It is YOUR FAULT that your explanations of your actions are distorted by Liberals, our Imams, and our state controlled media that edits what we see and hear from you! It is YOUR FAULT that we are constantly bombarded by our media telling us that you are telling us lies to cheat us out of our oil!"
And then Slim comes around, looks at the Arabs flailing on the floor, legs kicking, face turning red, then turns to us and says, "certainly, we are so superior that we can open up a closed mind! Certainly, we need to approach regional public diplomacy in a fundamentally new way, opening a direct dialogue with the Arab and Islamic world through its already existing and increasingly influential transnational media."
Pardon me, but the organized process of a government systematically transmitting its view of itself to people is a definition of PROPAGANDA. Isn't that EXACTLY what Osama thought our haphazard, profit-motivated, decentralized, businessman-to-customer oriented, chaotically liscentious and dangerously UNCONTROLLED communications process ALREADY IS? And this moron's solution is to turn what we, the people, not our government, say about ourselves, and which drove Osama crazy with it's insidious, blatant, unintentional honesty, into WHAT HE AND EVERY MARXIST ON THE PLANT DELUDED THEMSELVES INTO THINKING WHAT IT WASN'T?
Let me tell you this: An incredibly rich and successful man who pulled himself up out of poverty by his own efforts IS NOT OBLIGATED to obey, in any way, shape, or form, the frenzied screams of a pathetic, impoverished, unwashed, unshaven, uneducated looooooser screaming, at the top of his voice, "YOU MUST UNDERSTAND MEEEEE!"
In fact, he has every right to question the intelligence of the effete, self-pretentious, self-righteous dandy standing nearby who tells HIM, in a high pitched, snobby voice "You know, you really must! He seems so frustrated, he might resort to violence!"
-----
I won't take up Fred's bandwidth to answer slim's discussion of "allies". Let's just say that Chirac is no Mitterand, that Shroeder is no Kohl, that the USSR and the Warsaw pact were a hell of a lot closer, nastier, and with nastier stuff ACUTALLY POINTED at France and Germany than Iraq, with whom they had a nice, cozy, business relationship they could count on.
We Americans confuse allies with being friends, forgetting that the Soviets were our "allies" once. People change. Nations change. Grow up, go with the flow, and get used to it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 21:51 Comments ||
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#37
Sorry, ptah. I will un-conceed just for you.
When will we stop pussy-footing around with a measley 150,000 troops? We might as well get it over with and go nuclear. 150,000 doesn't cut the cheese.
By the way, I know what pretentious is, but what is self-pretentious?
#38
Ok - tag team! I'll jump in! Nuke wouldn't allow us to directly harvest our OOooiiillllll
(Bwahahhahahh.....)
too many roentgens..........
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 22:13 Comments ||
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#39
I just read a 13 year old article by Bernard Lewis on "The Roots of Muslim Rage" at http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm
and I have to say that, as un-Christian as it may be, we need to just get on with the crusades and wipe out the competing culture to the extent that it will not assimilate. The raging will not be subdued with any diplomacy, democracy, or humanitarian handouts. Freedom of religion stops the minute the unruly mob emerges from the mosque, and all the suicide-prone may as well be sent on their way ASAP.
Posted by: Tom ||
08/22/2003 22:39 Comments ||
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#40
When will we stop pussy-footing around with a measley 150,000 troops?
We pacified Japan with 100,000 troops. Japan had 5 times Iraq's population, was a completely alien culture (Shinto Buddhists) and was 100% yellow-skinned. We destroyed Japan's cities; most of Iraq is intact. Japan had no significant natural resources; Iraq has oil.
The occupation of Iraq so far has been easier than the occupation of Japan. Given the gutlessness of the Muslim fanatics relative to the Japanese, I just don't see how it's going to get harder for us.
People tend to look at Israel as a sign of what awaits us in Iraq. That analogy is completely wrong. The Israelis are having real problems with the Palestinians because of self-imposed restrictions on what they will do with the terrorists. Israelis are like the Byzantines - they spend more time bickering with each other than fighting the enemy. Is it any wonder that they are in a continuous state of stalemate?
#42
The emperor essentially gave the people their marching orders to cooperate n'est-ce pas?
Made no difference. The emperor wasn't some kind of absolute dictator. He was a puppet of the Imperial Japanese Army, who gave him his marching orders. He wasn't opposed to the war, but he wasn't calling the shots - Pearl Harbor would have happened whatever the emperor's views were. No real surprise there - for hundreds of years, Japan was ruled by the Tokugawa shogunate, a hereditary dictatorship that sidelined the emperor. Japan's military caste simply picked a new figurehead. The Japanese army was on its way to abduct him when he put out the surrender proclamation. Japanese deadenders continued disappearing American soldiers caught unawares for years.
#43
I always figured the Israelis did not go to town because we always told them no before anything decisive could happen.
That's completely wrong. The Israelis are a First World nation. They can stand on their own two feet. The reason they don't stand up to us is because of their screwed-up internal politics where they feel that being true to themselves trumps preserving the lives of innocent Israelis. They don't need our money and they don't need our weapons - everything they use can be purchased through the black market - the ex-Soviet bloc countries will sell to anyone with cash.
The reason the Israelis have done this to themselves is because of bad leadership. They will not make the sacrifices needed for the country to become independent of American influence. They also have no idea how much more pull they could have if they unilaterally cut off the US financial aid that hangs like a noose around their necks. The US is not going to let Israel be overrun. Period. No matter what anyone says. What the Israelis need to do is really stretch the envelope* and really stick it to the Palestinian terrorists. When the deed is done, their leaders won't be able to vacation in Europe because of fear of persecution. But the Israeli people will no longer have to live in fear of Palestinian terror. Will it happen? Nah - Israeli pols are too worried about their own skins.
* in the way that the South Koreans are testing the strength of American commitment with the "sunshine policy"
#44
Zhang, you're absolutely right. There's an analysis of the Israeli political psyche sitting on my hard drive touching on that very subject which I'm getting up the nerve to post, for fear of being falsely labelled anti-semitic.
Slim: Ah, a private term that snuck out,
Pretentious-pretending that you are better than everyone else.
self-pretentious-a description of the demographics of the people who *believe* that you are better than everyone else.
I.e. the show is so obvious, nobody is taken in except the performer,
Fire raged through a Hummer dealership in the Los Angeles area Friday morning, and graffiti spray-painted on many of the damaged vehicles indicate that the fire was set intentionally. By the time firefighters arrived, the dealership showroom was engulfed in flames and dozens of expensive sport utility vehicles were burning in the outside lot. Chief Richard Greene of the West Covina Fire Department told NBC that he believed the fires were deliberately set because there were multiple fires. Video from the helicopter of NBC 7/39âs sister station in Los Angeles showed "I love pollution" painted on the hood of one Hummer and "Fat lazy Americans" sprayed on the side of another. One vehicle had the letters "ELF" sprayed on a door. Most likely it was ELF, or a supporter. I wouldnât rule out a insurance fraud case, blaming ELF would be a great cover.
"Weâve asked for federal assistance from (the) FBI and ATF on the investigation of the fire," Greene said. Donât hold your breath.
On Aug. 1, a banner was found at an arson that destroyed a large apartment project in San Diego. The banner said, "If you build it, we will burn it. ELF." They like to sign their work.
Investigators believe that ELF stands for Earth Liberation Front. Genius, must be a senior investigator
The group describes itself on its Web site as an international underground movement that carries out actions against groups they believe are exploiting and destroying the environment. Which by their standards is pretty much any business.
The group claims their cells have carried dozens of eco-attacks since 1997, resulting in more than $50 million in damage. At least that much.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 2:33:36 PM ||
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not to approve of the wanton and illegal destruction of property, but as far as I know ELF has never actually deliberately killed anyone. They may be loonies, but theyre not even in the same class with "moderate" Hamas leaders, let alone more "serious" islamic terrorists.
#2
Liberalhawk, that might be true but the attack in San Diego mentioned in the article occured right next to a fully inhabitted apartment complex that had to be evacuated. A lot of the apartments had their plastic blinds melted simply from the heat it was so close.If the winds had shifted we'd be talking hundreds dead. So technically they have not deliberately killed anyone but they are pretty casual about the lives of others.
#3
Elf should be easy to find. Look for the funny hat and pointy shoes. The FBI doesn't want to find them.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:22 Comments ||
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Who the hell cares if they "ONLY" destroy property? They still deserve to be hunted down like dogs and incarcerated for as long as a (probably liberal) California judge would sentence them!
#5
Flaming Sword & Liberalhawk: It DOES seem that here in California the authorities aren't trying very hard to stop the now thriving ecoterrorist movement. Could it be that they have sympathizers within the Democratic Party controlled state police? Not as far out as it sounds; these terrorists are the sons and daughters of wealthy liberals for the most part. Hell, maybe powerful wealthy liberals at that.
#7
Just throw them into the Amazon jungle with 19th century equipment. Then leave them to have 'fun' with nature.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 16:18 Comments ||
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LH - there were 3 construction workers living on the SD site they burned. ELF members should be put down publicly - don't make any excuses...the next house they "accidently" burn could be yours
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 16:56 Comments ||
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Idiots.
As I said after the SD fire, they protect the environment by putting more carcenogens, soot, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, cyanide,etc., into the air with the fire than any of those cars could have produced in its entire useful life.
So its okay to torch condos in Vail, townhomes on Long Island, apartments in SD, cars and SUV's in Seattle as long as they don't kill anyone?
These dimwits are lunatic fringe nutcases that have watched way too much bambi.
How long until everyone walks up to the fact that these environazis want us living in caves, eating raw veggies and running around naked??? We shouldn't build shelter, we shouldn't build fires, we shouldn't eat meat, and we can use fertilizer to grow crops or skin animals for clothing.
They ARE at war with the industrialized state. They want everyone but them to be living in abject oppressive squallor and they have no problem with thousands of people dying if it would preserve the environment.
Problem is they cannot seem to reconcile evolution and extinction. Some species of animals disappear when they reach an evolutionary deadend or fail to adapt. We have falcons hunting pigeons in downtown LA and thriving because they adapt and the Condor is becoming extinct because its highly specialized niche in the foodchain doesn't work anymore.
One day soon these little darlings are going to kill someone or even worse do some horrific deed in the name of protecting the environment and THEN maybe someone will give these dillusional children some attention.
#10
I haven't seen any indication that the world could support more than 1 billion at the tech level they advocate. That means the other 5 are pretty much SOL.
I hate to think what the environmental impact would be from the death-throes of 5 billion people.
Head of Ilam governorate court, Mohammed Parani said Thursday that 183 Iranians have died after entering Iraq, illegally to visit holy sites since the fall of Saddam Hussein last April. Iranâs Official News Agency (IRNA) quoted the official as saying "the Iranian authorities received the bodies of 183 Iranians who died in Iraq during the past four months with only 175 remains delivered to their families while the others remain unidentified." Shot up too bad to identify?
According to IRNA, he added that the cause of deaths was due to increasing heat in Iraq and mine fields left from the Iranian-Iraqi war. Mine fields, yeh, that would explain the "wounds".
Iran had warned its citizens not to cross the borders with Iraq and stopped 9,000 Iranians from entering Iraq last week. Somebody is quietly shipping bodies home, think theyâre sending a message?
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 11:46:20 AM ||
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holy sites
You mean Krazy Kassim's Kalashnikovs-R-Us? The Great Uncle Saddam Secret Resistance Headquarters & Used Camel Emporium? The 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized) Desert Live Fire Range? Those holy sites?
Posted by: Mike ||
08/22/2003 12:22 Comments ||
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hey fools those Iranians entering are not combatants and probably did not get shot. Iranians go to Iraq as pilgrims to Najaf and Kerbala. Right now there is a thriving trade in transporting dead bodies from Iran to be buried in Najaf at IMAM ALI'S shrine. Most old men from Iran always make the journey to Iraq knowing fullwell that due to age and weather they will probably die in Iraq upon which they will be buried together with Imam Ali at the shrine. It is a shiite thing. The American troops have sealed offical border crossing to Iran and thus the Iranians have to sneak using back routes and thus the dead bodies decompose along the way since it takes longer to get to Najaf and when they get there they r badly decomposed. It is a shiite thing. Najaf now draws top dollar from burying dead shiites from Around the world. some saudi pay a million dollars to be buried in Iraq. Special smuggling gangs which operated undercover during Hussein are now in the open cashing in. that is the clarification, i tend to read alot.
#4
"hey fools"...yep stevey robinson's back and bigger than ever.
"i tend to read alot"...
must be "My Big Picture Books" huh?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 14:15 Comments ||
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Hey stevey pilsbury boy I wonder how many of those"pilgrams"had ak-47's and grenades under those funny dresses they wear?
Hope they put a pigs bladder in each body bag.
#7
most of those Iranian pilgrims are not anti American...most r very religious and tend to mind their own business. American soldiers see them everyday and dont bother them. However, younger Iranian pilgrims have been very amazed at the sight of the American soldiers. And lately i read, they have been overcoming their shyness and walk upto the American soldiers and ask them for a picture taken together. The stoic robocop-like marine figure with shades on is sort of Admired by Iran's youth the passage said. They then go to Iran to show off their picture and maybe sell them to N-Sync crazed young persian chicks. What do you know
#8
Hey guys-- I don't think Steveerossa is the infamous Stevey Robinson. (1) This one can sort of spell, and (2) though he calls us fools, he seems to have a few valid thoughts.
Tens of thousands of Palestinians poured into the streets of Gaza City on Friday to march in a fiery funeral procession for Ismaeel Abu Shanab, a leader of Hamas assassinated Thursday by Israel. "Abu Shanab, rest in peace. Our armies will go forward. We are the men of the dark ages night," a loudspeaker said. Local journalists overestimated the crowd at about 100,000, one of the largest rented mobs to turn out for a funeral of a Palestinian killed by Israel since the start of the intifada. "The road map is being buried, only martyrdom operations will remain," a Hamas man shouted through a loudspeaker. While keeping one eye on the sky.
Addressing mourners at Gazaâs main mosque, top Hamas official Abdel-Aziz Rantissi said, "We love killing joos martyrdom and we seek martyrdom. Our leaders and followers will continue to fight until the last follower we achieve martyrdom." Rantisi said that even if Israel killed more top Hamas leaders "another leadership will arise and continue the fight until victory." "Now excuse me, I have to go hide".
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 11:35:06 AM ||
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I think LH nailed it on this one.
To the palestinian leadership, there are leaders on both sides, and everyone between them is cannon fodder. Cannon fodder is expended for stagecraft and propaganda. It's all about power.
#6
dish - it may make sense from the Hamas viewpoint - whats really outrageous is that the Guardian and the LA times headline that the Israeli attack broke the truce.
EFL.The Religion of Peace looks like a pretty good living... if youâre a "holy man".
Two years ago, Hossein Yazdi was looking forward to a quiet retirement. Now heâs back at work as one of Tehranâs countless unofficial taxi drivers, trying to supplement a monthly pension of $65. "[Two pounds] of meat costs $5 these days; most weeks my wife and I go without," he says. "If things carry on like this, people like us will soon be dying of starvation." Starvationâs a sure fire way to crank up a revolution.
Daily conversation here turns with alarming speed to the daily struggle to make ends meet. But what makes such talk baffling is that most economists consider the country to be relatively well managed. "Iran has huge resources of oil and gas, and the rise in oil prices since 1999 from $10 a barrel to over $26 today has given the economy an immense boost," says Yves Cadilhon, head of the French economic mission in Tehran. The French would think that, wouldnât they? Iran could be the model they use when Frogistan is declared.
So what are many Iranians complaining about? A powerful group of clerics and merchants who, critics say, have a stranglehold on the economy. Do tell...
For Saeed Laylaz, an assistant manager at Iranâs largest car manufacturer and a supporter of moderate President Muhammad Khatami, the gripes are an effect of political reforms. "People are no longer afraid to speak out: theyâre not getting angrier, just more vocal," he says. Jahangir Amuzegar, who was Iranâs finance minister in the 1970s, disagrees. "Itâs the envy factor," he says. "I doubt anybody is getting poorer, but the trouble is that a tiny minority is getting richer very quickly." Envy AND starvation? Whenâs it gonna start?
What happened to social justice? That is a bitter pill to swallow given that "covenant of the meek," or social justice, was a favorite catchphrase of the leaders of Iranâs 1979 revolution. But itâs made far worse by the fact that the principal beneficiaries of wealth redistribution have been the regime clerics and their closest allies. I, for one, am shocked.
Among the main bastions of clerical control are the bonyad, immense foundations built up after 1979 from wealth confiscated from Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Iranâs last shah. Ostensibly "charitable" organizations, they frequently use their wealth - up to 35 percent of the economy, according to analysts - for questionable purposes. In 1997, for instance, one senior cleric and bonyad boss announced his institution was offering $2.5 million for the assassination of novelist Salman Rushdie. God, itâs even worse then Massachusetts.
Another bonyad based in the holy city of Mashhad, in northeastern Iran, has used donations from as many as 8 million pilgrims a year to buy up 90 percent of the arable land in the surrounding region. Controlled since 1979 by arch-conservative Ayatollah Abbas Vaez-Tabazi - whose son and daughter are married to two of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khameneiâs children - the foundation also owns universities and a Coca-Cola factory. Ah-ha! No wonder there are so many "holy places". Step right up and see the Prophetâs pile of dirt! 2 bucks please.
Backed by President Khatami, Iranâs reform-minded parliament recently scrapped laws exempting the foundations from paying tax. Most observers doubt anything will change. Bonyad bosses, they say, can always fall back on privileged relations with Iranâs banks, almost all state owned. "Credit is rationed," explains Mr. Amuzegar, "and itâs rarely private business that gets it." "Iâve never even bothered trying to get a bank loan," says Ataollah Khazali, owner of a small smelting works outside Tehran. "Perhaps the private banks will be better for people like me, but theyâre very new and few people trust them."
For now, cash-starved businessmen like Mr. Khazali are obliged to turn for credit to members of the countryâs bazaari class, strongly pro-regime merchants who double as money lenders. "Iran lacks liquidity; we do our best to remedy that," one bazaari says. One method, he explains, is the systematic backdating of checks. "Strictly speaking itâs illegal, but it enables us to play with money that isnât ours." Iâm a simple businessman...
This bazaari is a small player, specializing only in copper goods. Others are far more powerful, and with political attachments. The current head of the influential pro-bazaari Coalition of Islamic Associations, Habibollah Asgar-Ouladi, was commerce minister in the 1980s, a position he used to procure lucrative foreign trade contracts for his brother. The family is now estimated to be worth $400 million. Praise Allah! He is bountiful!
Neither brother is renowned for his reformist sentiments. When Khatami broke his customary cautious reserve to warn against the rise of "religious fascism" in December 1998, Mr. Habibollah publicly reminded him he was "president of the whole nation and not just one group which insults and violates the holy values of the revolution." ...and threatens my pocketbook. But we wonât mention that.
"These bazaari are like a mafia, obeying no laws," says one clothes manufacturer, who buys all his fabric from them. "If one of them decides to boycott a company, they all do." What do you mean, "likeâ?
With Iranâs chronic unemployment - officially 12.5 percent but probably closer to 20 percent - exacerbated by the arrival on the job market of 1980s baby boomers, analysts insist only a radical reworking of Iranâs crony capitalism can stave off a crisis."The regime knows it has no choice but to liberalize," argues Mr. Laylaz. "They may use anti-Western rhetoric as their political trump card, but they can only save themselves by opening up." But Amuzegar is more pessimistic. "Itâs not Islamic ideology thatâs holding the system up; itâs the clericsâ and bazaarisâ hold on the economy," he says. "As long as they survive, so will the system." Ainât that always the way.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
08/22/2003 11:24:58 AM ||
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"Does not the Prophet (blessed be his name) deserve a Mercedes? And he wants me to drive it."
#3
The Iranian "baby boom" was caused by the legalization of pedophilia in 1979. (The law allowing male marriage to girls of 9 was repealed in May 2002, because of the social chaos that it was causing. Ayatoilet Rafsanjani became one of the richest men in the world, during his time of power. In the Koran a "prophet's tax" (al-Khums) is sanctioned by its only beneficiary: Mohammed. The Rafsanjani family has been pocketing the entire 20% tax on car sales in Iran, claiming a cleric's (ulama) tax. Not all Iranian clerics hold to a vow of poverty.
#4
My take on this mess is to stand back and watch the fur and turbans fly.
The social unrest is reaching critical mass and soon there will be fullfledged civil war.
I hope that some of the self dillusional islamofascists who are out in the streets of Baghdad and Amman and Paris waving their prayer shawls stop and look at this and have an epiphany about why the clerics want to run the whole show. It has nothing to do with redemption or sanctity, it has everything to do with money, cars, luxury and nubile adolescents.
There is a morality tale here, straight out of George Orwell, that more some fringe group preaches equality, they really mean for everyone else and they really want an ologarchy. And what they really mean was succinctly paraphrased by Mr. Orwell:
"Everyone is Equal, some are just more Equal than others...."
Excellent article by Neil Steinberg:
Give Islamic terrorists this much credit: At least they act out of deep religious conviction, twisted though it is. At least—tragically—they are not inept; they generally know how to rig a bomb and accomplish their horrible goals. And when caught, they tend to acknowledge their crimes. Their American counterparts of the 1960s were not nearly so inspired, skilled or bold. Their philosophy was a lazy hash of Mao and Marx and Dylan, and their dreams of bombing Army bases and the Pentagon largely remained dreams or else blew up, literally, in their faces. We didnât call them "terroristsââ back then, of course. They were "radicalsââ or "revolutionaries,ââ determined to lead America out of the nightmare of liberal democracy and into — well, into something groovy. They were never clear precisely what. Some kind of commune with themselves as kings. Like the terrorists of today, they tended to be well-educated and well-off.
Kathy Boudin grew up in New Yorkâs Greenwich Village, her father a prominent lawyer. She graduated magna cum laude from Bryn Mawr, dabbled briefly in actual work, but instead found meaning planning and carrying out the violent disruptions of the Weathermen, a lukewarm 1960s al-Qaeda. Boudin was granted parole this week after 22 years in prison for her role in a 1981 armored car robbery of $1.6 million for the struggle that left three law enforcement officers — two policemen and a Brinkâs guard — dead in the street. Of course Boudin wouldnât have called them "law enforcement officersââ then. She would have called them "pigs.ââ This was after nearly a dozen years on the lam.
The Sixties had ended for most people by 1981, but not for her. Boudin had been living in a bomb factory in 1970 and run out of a New York town house when her comrades managed to blow themselves up. Three died. Boudin wandered naked from the rubble and went into hiding — "undergroundââ was the romantic term they used, as if she were in the French resistance or something. Boudin surfaced during the bloody robbery. Others involved in the crime claimed that they were political prisoners and demanded to be tried in the Hague. Boudin turned to her daddy lawyer and copped a plea deal — 20 years to life. Her son, Chesa, who was 14 months old when she robbed the truck, was handed off to fellow Weathermen Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers to raise. Boudin remained silent during the first 20 years of her term. But when parole became a possibility, she decided to explain herself. The result was a 2001 profile in the New Yorker that was a study in sickening, ludicrous self-justification. She had no idea they were making bombs in that house she lived in. She was hazy on the details of the robbery she participated in. She shucked off all but the merest echo of blame. "I was responsible for not being responsible,ââ she said, in a neat illustration of the kind of Orwellian babble that passed for thinking in the Weather Underground. Normally, revulsion at such an empty soul as Boudin would inspire me to pass by her release without comment. But her son, now 23 and off to Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship, said something so wrong, so morally skewed, that I canât let it go unchallenged. "I think 22 years is a very long time to serve,ââ he said. "There are a lot of other inmates serving long sentences for nonviolent offenses.ââ
Eternity's a long time to be dead, isn't it?
Thereâs a world of b.s. packed into that one little word "other.ââ Gunning down cops during a robbery is not a nonviolent offense, and doesnât become one just because you arenât the gang member who pulled the trigger. So many other crooks slip up on this, but itâs the law. If three people burn down a store, the guy who buys the gasoline is as guilty as the guy who lights the match as is the guy who stands lookout. It makes sense legally, rendering moot all the fingerpointing that felons do. And it makes sense morally. Murder is murder, no matter how you contribute to it. The woman who holds her friendâs hat so he can have two hands free while he strangles someone is a murderer too. Kathy Boudin is a murderer of the worst kind — a politically motivated, self-justifying, unrepentant terrorist, and she was lucky to get out after 22 years. Boudinâs aging radical friends will no doubt be dancing around the maypole in Hyde Park when she comes prancing out of prison in October. Theyâll be hugging and laughing and telling themselves how right they were, after all. How they beat the man and lived to tell about it. They wonât think about those three cops. But we can. And when Boudin decides sheâs ready to begin the healing process by telling her story, remember that it is a lie, a bloody lie, literally. Instead of sharing the self-pity Boudin feels for her 22 years in jail, think of three men who will have no joyous return to life. Think of their nine children, left fatherless by the crime. No reunion for them. Those men were just doing their jobs, protecting the community, that day in 1981 when they met Kathy Boudin and her philosophy of liberation. She has blood on her hands no parole board can wash away. I canât add a thing.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 11:14:16 AM ||
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I remember this bitch. She was another Freedom Fighter With a Trust Fund. It's good daddy was around to cut her a deal. Her kid sounds as demented as she is. Must be that good Weathermen upbringing.
These people should all rot in hell after suffering slow, excrutiating, painful deaths.
#3
I heard on the radio in NYC this morning that the Parole Board is reconsidering the decision because they may not have had all of the available information when they made their original decision. As someone who grew up near where the robbery was committed, I can assure you that the locals are outraged.
Posted by: Tibor ||
08/22/2003 14:32 Comments ||
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JPost - Reg reqâd - Escalating the cause/effect lesson. Time for a 55 gallon drum of whupass
Palestinian terrorists have been attacking the Israeli Negev town of Sderot and civilian settlements in Gaza with a barrage of Kassam missiles and mortars, a military source told The Jerusalem Post. "Since 10 p.m. last night (Thursday) Palestinians have been launching a steady hail of Kassam missiles and mortar shells aimed at Sderot and Jewish communities in Gaza," the source said. For the life of me I donât know why Israel allows settlements in the middle of Paleo-held territory (Gaza), just on the hard-to-defend basis alone, and Gaza is basically a fenced-in paleo territory. West Bank is a different situation
"The Negev town of Sderot has suffered extensive damage to homes with 28 mortars and at least 6 Kassam missiles. These are not small rocks that Palestinian children are throwing. These are missiles with explosive warheads whose only purpose is to kill innocent Jewish civilians and destroy a cease-fire for which Israel desires," the source said. The IDF said that one of itâs positions in Rafiah, near the Israel-Egyptian border, came under automatic weapons fire around noon. No injures have been reported from Sderot or Gaza.
The Paleos' only saving grace, if they have one, is that unless they explode they usually only hit things by accident.
The IDF demolished the homes of three suicide bombers last night in Nablus and Jenin. The IDF has stated that any family which supports acts of terror against Israel will âpay a heavy price.â IDF Golani, Paratrooper and Nachal troops took part in anti-terror operations last night arresting 12 men in Nablus, Jenin, Hebron and Bethlehem suspected of planning terror attacks. The IDF reported that their operations were highly selective in detaining only those Palestinians who wish to break the cease-fire. Quit being so sensitive and crack heads
"It is the objective of the IDF to take action against terrorists and not the Palestinian population which has chosen to support peace with Israel," the source said.
That's always assuming there are any, of course...
A Paratrooper unit discovered an explosives lab in Nablusâ old city yesterday afternoon. The troops found a large amount of triacetone triperoxide, or TATP, a highly volatile material that has been used in previous terrorist bombing plots all over the world, and was used as an "igniter chemical" in the Lockerbie bombing over Scotland in 1988. Army sappers detonated the explosives in a controlled explosion. Military officials said the IDF operations in the West Bank would carry on as long as necessary. The officials said that Israel is still receiving more than 30 terror warnings a day coming out of the Palestinian territories. All the large West Bank cities and towns are under closure.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 10:52:00 AM ||
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Counter-battery fire, fellas. It'll teach 'em to be careful where they set up their launchers, and limit the number of rounds they get off before they get hit. It will also teach the paleo civs that letting these guys hang around is a good way to get blown up.
EFL
The Islamic Republic of Iran might lose one of its very few friends in the world, Cuba, which, according to American officials, has officially informed them that the Iranian embassy in Havana was the source of jamming programs send out by US-based Iranian radio and television stations aimed at mainland Iran. I wondered what happened to this story.
The jamming related to Telestar-12, a commercial communications satellite orbiting at 15 degrees west, 22,000 miles above the Atlantic, which carries programs by the American government as well as by Iranian radio and television stations based in the US aimed at mainland Iran. The interference began on July 16, coinciding with the start of a new wave of pro-democracy protests led by Iranian students in Tehran against the countryâs clerical leaders. At first, it was believed that the Cuban government, acting on demands from Iranâs ayatollahs, was jamming the US government and private Persian-language radio and TV broadcasts into Iran, as the stations, based mostly in Los Angeles, had attracted an impressive popularity within Iran. Satellite-broadcasting experts said at the time that since Tehran could not jam the Telstar-12, due to its stationary position, it made the request for friendly Cuba to do it instead. And since Iran sends oil to Cuba, they have a lot of pull.
But on Wednesday a spokeswoman for the US State Department said that Havana had informed them that the jamming was made by the Iranians in Cuba, using a compound in a suburb of the capital belonging to the Iranian embassy. According to a source, the Cubans have now shut down the facility and presented a protest note to the Iranian government in Tehran, and the jamming stopped earlier this month. "Cuba informed us on August 3 that they had located the source of the interference and had taken action to stop it," Jo-Anne Prokopowicz of the State Department said. "The government of Cuba informed us that the interference was coming from an Iranian diplomatic facility," she said, adding, "We will be following this up with Iran." She said with a straight face
The news surprised many Iranian observers, doubting Cuban leader Fidel Castroâs "innocence" in the affair. "Being a fully police state, it is difficult to believe that the Iranians had introduced the sophisticated jamming equipment into Cuba without the knowledge of the Cuban authorities," Dr Shahin Fatemi, a veteran Iranian political analyst, told The Asia Times Online. Hereâs what I think happened. According to reports, the jamming from Cuba was strong enough to to knock out several transponders on the satellite, not just the Iranian broadcasts. The international satellite companies all have to work together, and they donât like it when one of their birds goes down. It costs them big money. I saw a press report that they were considering joint action against Cuba if the jamming did not stop. Iâll bet they told them, "Stop the jamming, or we cut all satellite service in and out of Cuba". It may have been an Iranian run jammer or a Cuban jammer, we may never know for sure. But I think Castro got the message and is now trying to put the best face possible on it.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 10:35:16 AM ||
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Castro also sees that Iran is begging for a beating, and doesn't want to give any excuses for action against him. I think he's afraid of GWB, who obviously isn't Clintonesqe
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 10:54 Comments ||
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"I have just signed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. We begin bombing in 30 minutes."
-R. Reagan, who never ordered the invasion of a country larger than Cuba, let alone twice, on the far side of the planet.
#3
Had Reagan disposed of Gaddafi and Hezbollah when they got up the Americans' sleeve,I very much doubt you'd be having these problems with Al-Qaeda and Saddam now.Of course,he had other worries at the time.
Posted by: El Id ||
08/22/2003 14:25 Comments ||
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I thought the jamming was coming from a Cuban station that the Russians set-up after teh Missile Crisis. Isn't it unlikely that Radio Shack still sells a Heath Kit that the Iranians could buy and assemble as a jamming station in Havana. -- then again maybe they contracted that Aussie that builds cruise missile in his garage.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 15:32 Comments ||
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Radio Shack still sells a Heath Kit that the Iranians could buy and assemble as a jamming station
Heath Kit! From the Holy City of Benton Harbor. Are they still around in any form? I still use some of the stuff I built in the early '70s.
Hat tip to LGF. Haven't seen this in any other source...
Los Angeles police have detained about 200 people believed to have connections to foreign terrorists, Police Chief William Bratton said Wednesday during a morning call-in radio program. Bratton characterized those arrested as a "variety of individuals we feel have some connection to issues of terrorism." He said the arrests were made in conjunction with federal agents and it is unclear whether they will face terrorism-related charges. "Our philosophy is get them before they get us," Bratton said. "So if I can get them on an immigration violation, anything, we're going to get them." Previously, LAPD counter-terrorism head John Miller has said there are people affiliated with al-Qaeda in Los Angeles who have set up support networks and raised money for attacks. U.S Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., also warned of the ongoing threat of terrorism during an address she gave Wednesday to the West Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce. She said that there are thousands of al-Qaeda operatives around the world, and many in the state. "I can't tell you how many because it's classified information," Feinstein said. "But if I told you the number of terrorist cells in this country, you would be shocked."
I'm sure most of us would be. What surprises me is that we don't see more articles like this, even just in our local papers. Occasionally chatting with policemen, I know that there is a background noise of arrests, but they never seem to splash. In the immediate wake of 9-11 there were reports every day for about three weeks of investigations â then almost nothing. Probably the people in charge of the investigations don't want them followed. Probably the majority of investigations end up with no charges, maybe â maybe â a quiet deportation. But at least some should be. The public needs reminded that there are Bad Guys out there and that the threat's more than just a color code that nobody pays attention to.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 08:51 ||
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But if these arrest stories made it into the newspaper... there might be more support for the WoT and GW.... and heaven forbid!... we can't have that! /flaky liberal journalist
EFL
A Cuban general and two fighter pilots have been indicted in the shooting down of two civilian planes in 1996 over the Florida straits, federal prosecutors announced Thursday. The four men aboard the planes were killed. The three accused men are in Cuba, and extradition is impossible since no diplomatic relations exist between Cuba and the United States. Gen. Ruben Martinez Puente, who was then head of the Cuban air force, and pilots Lorenzo Alberto Perez-Perez and Francisco Perez-Perez were named in an indictment to be released later Thursday. The charges against the men include murder, conspiracy to kill U.S. citizens and destruction of aircraft. The penalties include up to life in prison or the death penalty. Hate to say it but this sounds like the Belgians indicting someone. This isnât a matter for law enforcement, itâs a matter for diplomacy/military force.
Cubaâs intent was "to terrorize the Cuban population" on the island and in Miami, U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez said at a news conference announcing the indictment. "These were defenseless U.S. nationals who were carrying out a humanitarian mission over international waters." The planes of the group Brothers to the Rescue were shot down by two Cuban MiGs in Feb. 24, 1996, over international waters as three aircraft searched for migrant rafters trying to flee Cuba. A third plane, carrying Brothers to the Rescue leader Jose Basulto and two observers, was not hit. On several flights before that day, members of the group had violated Cubaâs airspace and dropped leaflets over the island supporting human rights.
Basulto called the indictment "a step in the right direction." Cuban-American activists have been lobbying for the indictment of Cuban President Fidel Castro in the attack. "The fact that the indictment is taking place is a good measure because itâs sending a signal to Cuba," Basulto said Thursday. "I expect the indictment of Castro takes place shortly because heâs the one that ordered the shootdown and that is well-documented." There was no immediate comment from the Cuban government about the indictment. Spy ring chief Gerardo Hernandez is appealing his murder conspiracy conviction and life sentence in the deaths of the Miami-based fliers. The spy ring conspired to lure the Brothers to the Rescue "aircraft into flying on the day of the shootdown by ensuring that the FBI would not stop the flights," Jimenez said in a statement.
The Cuban government has always maintained that the Cessna 337s were in Cuban airspace when they were shot down. At the time, Havana said that the Miami group provoked the attack by repeatedly intruding on Cuban airspace for nearly two years and that the United States did little to respond to official Cuban protests. An investigation by the U.N.âs International Civil Aviation Organization later concluded the small planes were attacked in international airspace between Florida and Cuba, but within a Cuban-posted danger zone beyond its 12-mile territorial limits. The Cuban MiG pilot told ICAO investigators that he made two warning passes in front of the Cessnas before downing them with missiles, but Cuban cockpit transcripts donât reflect any visual or radio warning. We all know what happened. Lawsuits and indictments wonât solve the problem. Deposing Fidel will.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 1:02:43 AM ||
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#1
Assasinating him would be better, but Ford signed that bill saying we couldn't kill a leader we weren't at war with.
Never stopped us from trying though.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:21 Comments ||
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Actually Ford signed an Executive Order. I was hoping that Cuba had stepped over the line when it helped Iran jam our anti-goverment broadcasts. Too bad - I think the Navy could have handled Cuba alone.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 12:54 Comments ||
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EFL
Investigators said Thursday that ballistics tests showed all three victims in a series of sniper-style slayings at area convenience stores were killed by the same weapon. Charleston Police Chief Jerry Pauley said the victims, who all were shot in the head or neck last week, were killed by a .22-caliber rifle. "It does positively link the three bullets together. They all three came from the same weapon," Pauley said at an evening news conference. "Now that we know it came from the same weapon, weâve got a direction to go in." Also Thursday, police released a composite sketch of a person witnesses described seeing at the scene of one of the shootings: a heavy-set white male with dark hair, long sideburns and a goatee. Police did not describe the man as a suspect, but said they wanted to speak with him. Witnesses told police they saw a large white man in a truck the night of the Aug. 14 shootings. Based on witness accounts, investigators are looking for a dark-colored, two-tone Ford F-150 extended cab pickup that was seen at the last two slayings.
Gary Carrier Jr., 44, of South Charleston, was killed Aug. 10 while making a telephone call outside a Charleston convenience store. Four days later, Jeanie Patton, 31, and Okey Meadows Jr., 26, both of Campbells Creek, were killed within 90 minutes of each other at rural convenience stores about 10 miles apart and less than 20 miles east of Charleston. Pauley said investigators have not determined whether the three murders are the work of a random sniper. Kanawha County sheriffâs officials had said earlier that the killings of Meadows and Patton appeared to be drug-related. Investigators havenât found any evidence to show drugs were involved in Carrierâs slaying, Pauley said. "Weâve got profilers looking at the information ... They havenât determined anything for us yet," Pauley said. A city, county and federal task force continues to sift through more than 400 leads, 10 of which have linked two of the shootings in the Campbells Creek area to drugs. Drugs or terrorism? Third shooting doesnât fit the first theory.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 12:57:27 AM ||
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Seems possible, if there is a drugs connection between the first two shootings, that the third was a decoy intended to confuse the police. Make it all seem like the behaviour of a random killer to disguise the true motive and thus the identity of the perpetrator. If the shootings stop now, this would seem increasingly plausible to me...
#2
they released a composite of the suspect - white, Mullett haircut, goatee, driving a pickup. Bill Handel on KFI radio said that applied to 90% of the Men AND Women in WVa ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 13:46 Comments ||
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Guatemalaâs Congress has approved a measure giving U.S. security forces rights to enter Guatemalan airspace and waters during joint anti-narcotics operations. ``We supported it because the growth of drug traffic is intolerable and the situation is very serious and we believe that the support is necessary,ââ said Congresswoman Nineth Montenegro. The measure was approved 86-3 late Wednesday. It will take affect in coming days after its published in the official government gazette. Under the measure, U.S. government vessels can dock at local ports and U.S. agents can enter Guatemalan territory during joint operations. U.S. vessels or aircraft also can enter without prior notice when in hot pursuit of suspects. This will help in fighting the narcoterrorists.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 12:52:57 AM ||
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#1
"This will help in fighting the narcoterrorists."
Go easy slinging that "terrorist" word around. In an Islamic country, the companies Anheiser Busch and Seagrams could just as easily be referred to as "alcho-terrorists".
The "war" to control what grown adults WILLINGLY ingest is one of the most wasteful efforts mankind has embarked upon, particularly when one considers the incredible amount of time and resources that are diverted from preventing the threat of UNWILLING harm--the war on REAL terrorism.
#2
At a time when American troops are stretched thin, the United States should not be putting limited miltary resources when we have a war on terrorism to fight.
Posted by: Cal Ulmann ||
08/22/2003 14:17 Comments ||
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#3
The problem is, the grown adults aren't taking it. The kids who want to look 'cool' are. And after that first time, they are usually hooked.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 15:35 Comments ||
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#4
"The problem is, the grown adults aren't taking it. The kids who want to look 'cool' are. And after that first time, they are usually hooked.
Posted by: Charles 2003-8-22 3:35:34 PM"
Sorry Charles, that argument could be (and is often) applied to LEGAL chemicals such as Budweiser and Marlboro, yet I don't know of many folks pushing for the coast guard and/or military to intercept shipments of these products. It REMAINS an enormous waste of time and resources attempting to police what grown adults willingly inflict upon themselves.
A former Iranian ambassador to Argentina, wanted in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people, was arrested Thursday in England. Yeah, baby!
Police in northeast England, arrested Hade Soleimanpour, 47, at his home in Durham on an extradition warrant. Soleimanpour is to appear in court Friday, Metropolitan Police headquarters in London said. The warrant, issued Thursday, alleges that Soleimanpour conspired with others to murder people at the Jewish Community Centre building. The Iranian government has repeatedly denied any responsibility in the attack.
"Lies! All lies!"
Argentine Federal judge Juan Jose Galeano, who is investigating the attack, had sought his arrest. Soleimanpour, Iranian ambassador to Argentina at the time of the explosion, has been in the United Kingdom since February 2002 on a student visa and was studying at Durham University, police said. Awh, gee, he doesnât have any diplomatic immunity. Wot a shame.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 12:51:29 AM ||
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i wonder what he was studying, and what the other students in the class will be thinking now...
#2
Probably wondering why he was hiding in their country and not defending his home from America.
Student: I don't understand, those imperialistic americans are setting up a empire in his backyard, and he's hiding here? What happened to the noble Jihad?
Hint: People die in Jihads, that's why he's not there.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:40 Comments ||
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#3
Here comes the spittle: TEHRAN, Aug 22 (AFP) - Iran reacted angrily Friday to Britain's arrest of its former envoy to Argentina, saying international arrest warrants issued by a Buenos Aires court over the 1994 bombing of a Jewish cultural centre were illegal.
"Argentina should be held politically and legally responsible for this action, which is not in line with international rules," foreign ministry spokesman Hamid-Reza Asefi told AFP. "The Islamic Republic of Iran will follow up the case through the necessary channels to free its citizen, and we will talk to the British and ask them for the necessary explanations," he said. "The Argentine court decision (to issue the warrants) is a political measure with political incentives under the influence of the Zionist regime in order to do it a service," Asefi said, reiterating Iran's longstanding denial of any involvement in the bombing.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/22/2003 10:05 Comments ||
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#4
Black hats are worried over what he'll spill to avoid a long term in Argie prison
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/22/2003 10:33 Comments ||
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South African peacekeepers with a newly toughened United Nations mandate have shot dead a Congolese militiaman in a skirmish, a UN spokesman said. The force in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo faces a key test of will, with a French-led emergency force pulling out of the town of Bunia after stopping massacres that UN troops had failed to prevent.
Why would they want to prevent them? No massacres, no jobs...
The shooting of the militiaman, some 270 kilometres south-west of Bunia, was the first since the UN force got a tougher overall mandate from the Security Council at the end of July. UN mission spokesman Hamadoun Toure said the South Africans were on patrol when they saw three militiamen kill a civilian hostage. The fighters shot at the UN troops, who responded, killing one and injuring another. "There will be zero tolerance for attacks on civilians," Mr Toure told Reuters in Kinshasa.
Ain't that a switch...
Tribal Mai-Mai militia attacks have been escalating in eastern Congo since the gradual withdrawal of Rwandan-backed rebels under a peace deal to end a war that has left millions dead since 1998. Although the Mai-Mai and the rebels are officially represented in Congo's new power-sharing government, many Mai-Mai factions feel left out. A French-led European force flew into the town of Bunia after hundreds of civilians were killed in tribal massacres that UN troops were unable to prevent. The French are due to be replaced by a bigger, tougher UN force next month.
The Frenchies were the bigger, tougher force that replaced the Uruguayans.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:35 ||
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I'm amazed: 1) the SA troops pulled the trigger -- good on them 2) the SA troops are seen as "bigger and tougher" than the French. That's a wet fish across the face of Chirac!
Let's hope the SA troops really do drop the hammer on each and every idiot milita thug that brutalizes civilians.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/22/2003 0:39 Comments ||
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#2
Then they'll be accused of Human Rights violations, be sued in a foreign court room of a 3rd-world country, and recieve condemnation from the UN for shooting someone dead who had killed half a dozen people a week ago.
Anybody want to visit Belguim?
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 1:57 Comments ||
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#3
Wasn't there a story a while ago that SA troops couldn't shoot straight because they were depressed? Or something like that. Nothing like a field trip to cure what ails you.
#4
SA is on the continent and probably can
summon more sense of national interest in
African peace-keeping/peach-making missions.
Don't know how good their forces are after
Apartheid though?
#5
Wait, let me get this straight........the UN actually let a peacekeeper put a bullet in a weapon...........and shoot it............at someone......
My gosh, what is the world coming to, Oh the Horror, the humanity!!
Will the UN convene a committee to investigate this tragic loss of life, this senseless violence, this violation of lunatic fringe hatefulled nut job sovreignty???
And to top it all off, it was a Frog. Amazing. there was a time when I was in the military, that we all thought the French Foreign Legion was the baddest of the bad@$$es, I mean no one but no one screwed with them. There was a time when the French would have shot first and asked for ID's later....and rebels and insurgents pissed themselves and ran in all directions at the thought of the FL coming to town to restore order.
Now, it is front page news that a French soldier in a UN peacekeeping force cracked off a little AK-47 wielding genetic defect. It should be old news, wave an AK at a blue helmet and you die. Screw with the civilian population with a blue helmet around, notify your next of kin.
The UN has stood around and let some ghastly atrocities happen...."Uh, we're here to keep the peace, not shoot people....Sorry"
THIS is the big reason, the US should NOT let the UN get anywhere near Iraq.
The UN will stand around with their fingers up their butts and let the Baathists and the Terronutjobs blow everything to smithereens and kill anyone that knows where St. Louis is and then say "Boy, the US really made a mess of this, we're leaving....." and then the Baathists return and it is business as usual. Iraqi Oil for Food money lining French, German and Russian pockets and Kofi Annan's pockets.
Palestinian leaders are appealing for American intervention to stop the collapse of the Middle East peace plan, known as the roadmap.
Piss off. You broke it. You fix it.
Two Palestinian militant groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have ditched a seven-week-old ceasefire following an Israeli air strike on a Hamas political leader, Ismail Abu Shanab. He died when Israeli helicopters fired missiles at his car in Gaza City. The White House says while Israel has a right to defend itself, the Sharon government needs to take into account the effect its action may have on the peace process.
If I was Sharon, I'd pull the plug on the peace processor and kill every Hamas and IJ thug I could find. Then I'd shoot their dogs.
Palestinian leader Saeb Erakat says the situation is critical. "This will only add fuel to the fire, this will only just deepen the cycle of violence and we need a third party intervention," he said.
That's what the road map was. The Paleos treated it with contempt. Go whine to the EU.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:22 ||
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Oh... ah weren't they going to maintain their ceasefire because Israel let all those prisoners go free?
"We tried the roadmap to Peace. We tried negotiating with the Palestinians. When Mahmoud Abbas failed to reign in the terrorists, we tried giving in to their demands, we released the prisoners they wanted. But still they kill our people. Mahmoud Abbas promised to stamp out the terrorist groups but he has proven either unwilling or unable to do so.
So, it is with great sadness that I have to announce, we are now declaring war on Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas. In the prosecution of this war we will be invading the West Bank and the Palestinian Territories. We will root out Islamic Jihad, Hamas, their supporters and members wherever we find them. We will bulldoze their houses, flood their tunnels and confiscate their ordinance.
There will be a 5-day amnesty period starting now, in which time any Palestinians who wish to leave will be granted leave to remove to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon or Egypt. When those 5 days are up, any Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah member caught within the Palestinian territories or Israel, or the West Bank will be shot on sight.
We do not take pleasure in this decision, it is a sad day for us. But we have a duty to the safety of our people and we hope that once these groups are annihilated that we can live in peace with a free Palestinian state."
#3
Sure, we'll help out. We'll send Israel more Hellfires. That's probably the quickest way to peace. Consider it the exact change lane on "the roadmap".
#5
I just wish Isreal would wipe Hamas out all at once. It's not like the leadership for the group try to hide their meetings.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 2:17 Comments ||
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#6
Sharon should:
1. Institute the death penalty for any terrorist with blood on his hands.
2. Declare that any suicide bombing will immediately trigger the evacuation of one palestinian village of all inhabitants, full destruction of the property, and carting all the inhabitants to the nearest refugee camp.
3. Start serious (not sham) bombing of all known Hamas and JI headquarters and/or houses of their religious and political leaders.
And I used to be known as a leftist and peacemonger in the near past.
anybody got a better suggestion ?????
Posted by: The Dodo ||
08/22/2003 3:47 Comments ||
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#7
They are calling on America to intervene?
"We're sorry, but all our operators are busy at this time. Please hold and the next available operator will be right with you. Your call is important to us."
Posted by: Ben ||
08/22/2003 5:30 Comments ||
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#8
Dodo: As long as the refugee camp is OUTSIDE the "occupied territories" I'd go along with it. None of this 50 year old Jenin stuff.
Also, Arafat has to be retired. Kicking him upstairs is not working. It would be far better if the Palestinians retired him, but Israel may have to.
Posted by: Ben ||
08/22/2003 5:37 Comments ||
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#9
Two Palestinian militant groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have ditched a seven-week-old ceasefire following an Israeli air strike on a Hamas political leader
Didn't Hamas and IJ claim responsibility for the bus bombing? Didn't the bus bombing happen before the air strike on Shanab? Note to journalist: they may have 'ditched' the ceasefire a little earlier then your article would indicate.
#10
I think that it's time to give the Paleos the state that they want. Make them a nation.
The next act of terror would then be an act or war. Mabey with just a little luck and a lot of ruthlessnes justice would prevail and the new nation would be obliterated.
Posted by: Michael ||
08/22/2003 10:24 Comments ||
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#11
Let me get this straight. If Hamas was able to blow up a bus and take credit for it, and that didn't break the cease fire in their mind why can't Israel blow up a few Hamas people and still claim the cease fire is in effect?
Its' not like the cease fire really meant anything anyway.
#12
yank: of course israel CAN kill Hamas people and still have the ceasefire in effect - SO LONG as they only kill cannon fodder. Its the senior leadership that Hamas cares about.
Remember, it was only after the Israelis targeted Rantissi that Hamas even signed the ceasefire. To them the ceasefire was all about keeping their senior leadership alive. Nothing more. So with a senior leader dead, it makes perfect sense to them that the ceasefire is now over, but wasnt earlier.
#13
This might be simpler for Israel. Just put a 10 million dollar price on the heads of Hamas/IJ leaders. Half that if still attached to body. Might give an ambitious thug some interesting ideas...
#14
That would just make them martyrs in the Paleos eyes. What they should do is offer free food for a month to anybody who can kill them.
" I didn't do it for the money, it was to feed my family! "
Most of the people in Gaza will go hunting for Hamas leaders.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/22/2003 15:28 Comments ||
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#15
Palestinian leaders are appealing for American intervention to stop the collapse of the Middle East peace plan, known as the roadmap.
No shit??? HAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
The White House says while Israel has a right to defend itself, the Sharon government needs to take into account the effect its action may have on the peace process.
Does GWB and CP honestly think Hamas, IJ, and Fatah "take into account" the effects of their own actions on the peace process?
Palestinian leader Saeb Erakat says the situation is critical.
This Erekat guy is another one who could use a missile right through the back window of his car.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat faced a latenight ultimatum from his Prime Minister Mahmud Abbas early Thursday to approve an unprecedented clampdown on militant groups. A senior Israeli security source confirmed the target of the midday missile strike was Ismail Abu Shanab of Hamas. Fifteen bystanders were wounded, including several children, hospital officials said.
... and puppies and kittens and baby ducks. Don't forget them...
Palestinian witnesses said Israeli tanks and forces entered Jenin and left before dawn, and were conducting searches in the old city and western part of Nablus. Soldiers arrested at least 14 Palestinians in and around Nablus during the night, including a Hamas member caught with a large quantity of explosives. Six others were arrested in the Jenin area Wednesday night. Two Palestinian brothers, both in their mid teens, were shot dead early Thursday during a firefight between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli troops in Tulkarem refugee camp in the northern West Bank, Palestinian medical sources said.
My heart bleeds...
Following an emergency cabinet meeting in Gaza late Wednesday, Abbas went to meet with Arafat to seek approval for a crackdown on Palestinian militant groups. âAbu Mazen (Abbasâs nom-de-guerre) will present Arafat and the Palestinian leadership with four demands,â a senior Palestinian official said on condition of anonymity ahead of the talks in Ramallah. âIf they donât get Arafatâs support, the cabinet will resign.â
Resign and be damned. I'll believe in their good faith when the Paleocoppers are bumping off Hamas and IJ thugs daily...
Meanwhile, the Israeli security cabinet decided early Thursday to authorise a series of military steps against the radical Hamas and Islamic Jihad groups, Israel army radio reported. US Secretary of State Colin Powell insisted Thursday that escalating Middle East violence would not halt the US-led âroad mapâ peace bid and called for renewed pressure on radical Palestinian groups to end their attacks. The White House urged Israel on Thursday to work with the Palestinian Authority to crack down on terrorism.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
08/22/2003 00:05 ||
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I have a hint to Mahmud:
You denied the holocast in your book.
It seems that you are much better at authoring non-sensical books than fighting terror, which was the first reason you were elected by the Americo-Israelis to be prime minister.
You are clearly being used by Arafat and the extremists to buy more time for them so that they can improve their devastated infrastructure.
Be honest! Be a man! resign now and show everyone the real authentic face of the Palestinian leadership!
Mahmud, your deliberate impotence is now publicly and internationally demonstated.
Let the guns speak !
Go home before they send a splodidope to send you to the 72 virgins.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
08/22/2003 3:57 Comments ||
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#2
I think this is the 6th time that Abbas has threatened to resign, the 22nd time Powell has said 'keep to the road map' after a Paleoterror atrocity, the 302nd time the State Dept or White house has said 'work together against terrorism'.
#3
and in the past when Abbas was threatening to resign, he would get grudging concessions from Arafat - like letting him appoint Dahlan to control security forces. Of course then Arafat went and undermined what he had just done, by taking the lions share of the security forces away from Dahlans direct control.
So when Abbas says he doesnt have the force to beat Hamas, and when Israel says the PA security forces are quite enough to beat Hamas, theyre both right. Total PA forces ARE much larger than Hamas and IJ - but only a small part of them are actually under control of Dahlan (and thus Abbas) So Abbas tried to avoid direct confrontation with Hamas via the Hudna. Race was then on between Hamas to rebuild and Abbas to gain control over Pal security apparatus.
Looks like Hamas won - so they tried a string of attacks - if Abbas fought them, theyd beat him, and if he didnt, he's look weak, they'd look strong, etc. First 2 attacks killed "only" a couple of Israelis - so Israel didnt respond, but pressed for action, continuing only to go after "ticking bombs". Hamas was smart enough not to wait (and probably gambling nothing would happen to it) and used the latest israeli attack on a ticking bomb as an excuse for the attack that killed 20 on a bus.
So now Sharon kills a senior Hamas leader. Which is a signal to EVERYONE - to Abbas, to Arafat, to Bush and Powell, to Mubarak and Crown Prince Abdullah - the PA MUST crackdown, or I will move up my list. I will go after Rantissi, and then Yassin. And then all hell will break loose. And that hell will be much worse for you than it will be for me. So now you have a 24 window to do something.
But the obstacle isnt Abbas. Its Arafat, who really controls the lions share of the PA security forces. Thats why Powell, who had been ignoring Arafat, pressed him. One hopes that behind the scenes he made it clear that the US would back Israel in expelling or killing Arafat if he does not cooperate. One hopes that Mubarak has made it clear behind the scenes that Egypt wont object to strenously either.
Of course what theyre pressing the PA for wont be killing or imprisoning Yassin and Rantissi - the whole idea is for the PA to avoid hell, by acting instead of the Israelis. But they will have to make a significant number of arrests, and go after arms caches.
#4
'Following an emergency cabinet meeting in Gaza late Wednesday, Abbas went to meet with Arafat to seek approval for a crackdown on Palestinian militant groups. âAbu Mazen (Abbasâs nom-de-guerre) will present Arafat and the Palestinian leadership with four demands,â a senior Palestinian official said on condition of anonymity ahead of the talks in Ramallah. âIf they donât get Arafatâs support, the cabinet will resign.â '
This is Abbas pressuring Arafat. What happens to Arafat if Abbas does resign. Who is his intermediary with the Americans the next time Sharon wants to kill him? Will another PM be put in Abbas's place? Marwan Bargouti perhaps - unlike Abbas, a man with a real local constituency, with no long history of companionship with Arafat, and a man who lives by the gun? Will that make Arafat feel more secure? The goal here is to get Arafat to think that his own survival depends on doing the right thing - thats never worked before, but you never know.....
#6
I hope Abbas has a word processing program that reminds him to resave each time he updates the file with his resignation or one of these times he will forget and print out an old form with the old date on it. I don't think Arafat will take the resignation threat very seriously after he figures out that its actually the same file and he doesn't have to retype the whole thing each and every time he resigns. Even a wwll written resignation loses some effect and becomes more like spam if it doesn't look like tis an original draft.
Posted by: Steve D ||
08/22/2003 18:06 Comments ||
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#7
The White House urged Israel on Thursday to work with the Palestinian Authority to crack down on terrorism.
WTF does the White House think Israel was doing when it sent a missile into Shanab's car?????
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Thousands of seminary students rallied in Islamabad on Thursday and vowed to resist any moves by the government to send troops to Iraq. About 5,000 seminary students shouted slogans denouncing the United States and Israel at a rally organised by the 
