Outlawed party leader killed in crossfire
PABNA, Oct 20 (UNB): A leader of an outlawed party was killed in a shoot-out between Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) and his cohorts at Nandanpur in Ataikula Upazila early today (Thursday).
Another day, another dead outlawed party leader
The deceased was identified as Abdus Sattar alias Killer Sattar (45), a regional leader of Purbo Banglar Communist Party (ML-Lal Potaka).
There's no commie like a dead commie
RAB sources said acting on secret information they arrested Killer Sattar from AR Corner area of the town Tuesday and took him to Rajshahi RAB headquarters for interrogation.
WACK! "Hi, Killer. Let's take a ride down to headquarters. Bob, help him up."
As per his confessional statement..
"Pass the Number Four pliers, please."
they took him to Pabna again for recovering arms..
"Come on, Killer. Let's go see about those "arms"."
and when they along with him reached Nandanpur area at about 3:00am..
The magic hour
his accomplices opened fire,
"It's da RAB! Quick boys, random fire time!"
forcing the elite force to fire back.
"Hold him steady, will ya! I just had this uniform cleaned from last 'encounter'."
Sattar was caught in the encounter and injured seriously while trying to flee.
"Ouch...rosebud.."
He was taken to the Rajshahi Medical College Hospital where doctors declared him dead.
"He's dead, Jim"
A shutter gun, four rounds of bullet and a sharp weapon were recovered from the spot. Killer Sattar was wanted on twelve systems in 10 cases including five murders, the police said.
4 muggers held in Khulna
Oct 20 : Four alleged muggers were caught red-handed and arrested by the police while trying to rob a pedestrian on KhulnaâJessore road near Alim Jute Mill at Atra area last night. Police recovered one loaded shutter gun, one Chinese axe and one knife from their possession. The arrested muggers were identified as Salim Reza, Hasan Shaikh, Nazmul Alam Shaikh and Milon Hossain, all aged between 22 and 25.
According to sources, the muggers halted pedestrian Shahadat Hossain on the road at about 10 in the night, brandished the weapons and asked him to hand over the cash to them.
"Yar, we be highwaymen! Hand over yur booty!"
At this, Shahadat cried for help and the nearby police and people rushed to the scene and caught them.
"Hark! A cry for help, let's go pummel somebody."
They were severely beaten by the people before being taken to Khanjahan Ali police station.
They do enjoy their thug beating in Bangla
Two cases have been filed with Khanjahan Ali police station in connection with the incident. One of the cases has been filed under section 19(A)(F) of the Arms Act, while another case has been filed under section 4 of the Speedy Trial Act for mugging.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 10:36 ||
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#4
That Chinese Axe is a nice-looking piece of hardware! Looks like it needs some cleaning up, and a date with the sharpening stone, but it's otherwise fine. I think I'll put a bid of $10 on it...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/21/2005 16:29 Comments ||
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Police recovered huge quantities of bomb materials from the rest house of a mosque in Sylhet town, 21 hours into Tuesday's bomb attack on a judge in the district, while the Jama'atul Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) activist caught after the attack admitted to making the attack. JMB activist Akhtar Hossain, who was caught by pedestrians
Steve has previously noted the efficiency of Bangla mobs in administering a thorough thumping. A bit later on in the article, we learn that ol' Akhtar's not feeling so good...
immediately after he hurled a bomb on Divisional Speedy Trial Tribunal Judge Biplob Goswami in front of his residence, said in his confessional statement to a magistrate that he did it as part of the JMB's countrywide programme of attacking judges.
"I did it to protest the cruel mistreatment of my Moose limb brethren and sistren and to strike back at American hegemony establish the law of Islam and it is part of our jihad to establish Islam in Bangladesh," he said in the statement.
Meanwhile, Tangail police submitted a charge-sheet saying the outlawed extremist organisation Janajuddha provided the JMB with financial and technological assistance in carrying out five blasts in the town on August 17. During preliminary interrogation by local police, JMB activist Akhtar also admitted to his involvement with the JMB since 2001, reports our Sylhet correspondent, and also signed a statement that he is a monkey's uncle and likes to dress in fishnets. Acting on his information, police raided the rest house of Bhangatikor Haji Buru Mia Jame Masjid in the city's Sheikhghat area yesterday afternoon and seized bomb materials and some books, including an Islamic magazine, from one of the rooms of the rest house. The bomb materials include a dice, batteries, electric wires, small shards of iron nuts and bolts. Among the books seized are college texts and an issue of the Islamic magazine Al Hedayet. According to the register book records of the rest house, the room had been rented to one Delwar from Austadhar of Muktagachha upazila of Mymensingh district. The law enforcers were looking for Delwar and one Obayed, who owns the books.
Toldja those "Ex Libris" bookplates were a bad idea, Obayed...
Police arrested Imam of the mosque Moulana Saifuddin in the evening. They also arrested Habibur Rahman, a former student of Shahjalal Dargah Madrasa, suspecting his involvement in the attack.
"Stick 'em up, yer holiness. You too, young padawan."
The rest house authorities said they rent out eight of the 10 rooms while the imam and muajjin of the mosque live in the two others. Meanwhile, Akhtar admitted through broken teeth that he had been an activist of the Jamaat-e-Islami's student wing Islami Chhatra Shibir from 1996 to 2001 before joining the JMB. Lots more at the link...
A British tribunal granted bail Thursday to four Algerian terrorist suspects facing extradition, a ruling that was condemned by a government official who said the men represent a threat to national security. The four men, whose names were not released, were detained in August as part of an anti-terrorist crackdown that followed London's transit bombings in July. The bail conditions set will restrict the men's movements, amounting to virtual house arrest.
They were among 10 suspects who had applied for bail to the Special Immigration Appeals Commission, an immigration tribunal. The tribunal ordered the four released pending the outcome of appeals against their detentions. Five other suspects had their bail applications turned down. The only one of those five identified was Abu Qatada, a Jordanian cleric once described by a Spanish judge as Osama bin Laden's "spiritual ambassador in Europe." The commission's chairman, High Court judge Duncan Ousely, said the tribunal agreed with the government that Qatada might flee if released.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
This is the problem with treating this as a "Law enforcement" issue. This is the problem with letting Judges make the rules as they go along so they can promote their own (death wish) socailist agenda.
Revoke their leave to stay and deport them. Pick them up, take them to the airport, put them on Military transport and remove them to their country of origin. No judges, no lawyers, no appeals, no press coverage. Jail anyone who leaks the info under the offical secrets act. Arrest anyone who attempts to stop it for treason. QED.
Sarajevo, 21 Oct. (AKI) - One of the three terrorists arrested by the Bosnian police for planning terrorist acts, was planning a suicide attack on the embassy of a European country in Sarajevo, daily âDnevni avazâ reported Friday, citing unnamed sources. The paper said the man involved was an 18-year old and the police were checking whether he was a citizen of Bosnia or Serbia and Montenegro. Earlier, in a statement, the police said that one of the three terror suspects arrested was a Turkish citizen, one Swedish and one Bosnian. Police gave no other details in order not to hamper the ongoing investigation.
According to some foreign intelligence sources, Bosnia has become a haven for Islamic terrorists, after several hundred of mujahadeen from Islamic countries remained in Bosnia, after fighting on the side of local Muslims in the 1992-1995 civil war. Some of them were operating terrorist training camps in several locations in Bosnia, the reports said.
The arrested youth is presumably a Muslim, either from Bosnia, which has majority Muslim population, or from Serbia-Montenegro, which has a Muslim population of about 300.000. Intelligence reports said that Al-Qaeda has been recruiting white local youths in the Balkans for their operations, because of their non-Arabic appearance, and the Sarajevo arrest might prove to be the first such case.
In a related development, Belgrade daily âVecernje novostiâ said on Friday that up to 1.500 ethnic Albanians in Serbiaâs southern Kosovo province may have been recruited by Al-Qaeda. Quoting a secret American intelligence report, the paper said that they were organized in a group called âwhite devilsâ and were being trained in secret camps in Kosovo for a âholy warâ. Kosovo has been under United Nations control since 1999, and majority ethnic Albanians, mostly of Muslim religion, demand independence, something Belgrade firmly opposes. The international police, tasked with keeping the peace in Kosovo, confirmed this week that groups of armed gangs, wearing black uniforms, have been active lately in western parts of the province.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 10:33 ||
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#1
Thanks Clinton. Slobo had the right idea. Now we have an even bigger threat with "white" Islamonuts. Thanks again, wish you well with you Library, hope you raise alot of money with Bush the senile for more islamic countries, have a nice day, good luck with Hillary in 08' bye bye now, thanks again.
Yep, we've got plenty of Saudi Jihadi scumbags in Bosnia; however, the majority of Bosnian Muslims are pro-American and very liberal by Arab-Muslim standards. Same holds true for a majority of Albanian Muslims as well as the Kurds in Northern Iraq. So don't let a few bad apples spoil the apple cart.
Posted by: Jim Marrs Nail File ||
10/21/2005 14:27 Comments ||
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#4
Hmmm, Jim. That's prolly true. Perhaps it's true most everywhere - I keep hearing about it, the whole RoP thingy. And the folks yapping about it are pretty confident it's true, too. Cool. A little thought experiment...
So, um, let's line 'em all up, put you against a wall in front of them, give them a gun as they come to the front of the line and whisper in their ear, one person at a time, mind you:
"He's an American.
He supports civilization over The Caliphate and believes the War on Terror is a good thing.
Shoot him, if you like. He thinks you won't do it.
Confident, he is.
And don't pay any attention to the guy behind you in the OBL t-shirt. I'm sure it's okay if you aren't as pious and committed as he is. He looks a little agitated, but don't let it bother you. I'm sure he won't object if you feel differently about things. Being the RoP and all, it should be cool.
Here's your gun. I'll take the safety off for you. Okay, you're on."
So, any guesses out there? How many holes in Jim - per 1000 Muzzies, say - ya think?
Jim can you make yourself available when the next atrocity occurs on American soil? We'll need you to point out the "good" Muzzies so we don't accidentally offend them in some way, much less shoot the fuckers between the eyes.
Internet collages threatening Denmark and daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten with death and retribution have begun circulating on the internet after the newspaper published caricatures of Muslim prophet Mohammed
Bombs exploding over pictures of Danish daily Jyllands-Posten and blood flowing over the national flag and a map of Denmark are among the images circulating on the internet after the newspaper printed twelve cartoons of the Muslim prophet Mohammed last month.
Daily newspaper Berlingske Tidende reported that the internet collages, posted in the name of an unknown organisation calling itself 'The Glory Brigades in Northern Europe', showed pictures of various tourist attractions in Denmark and stated that 'The Mujahedeen have numerous targets in Denmark - very soon you all will regret this', amongst other things.
Another picture showed soldiers, armed with bombs, over a map of Denmark, with blood spattered over parts of the country.
The front page of Jyllands-Posten featured prominently on many of the four collages. The newspaper has been criticised by Muslims for printing the cartoons, and was forced to hire security guards after receiving hate mail and death threats over the telephone.
Posted by: DanNY ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
it's a shame when a newspaper gets blasted for portraying Mo-ham-head as a child-molesting, murdering, lying, Satan-worshiping rapist becasue that's what he was.
#4
Muslims are always the first in line to get on the freedom of speech bandwagon. But when you say something they don't like, it's off to hell with you.
Canada's Supreme Court agreed Thursday to hear the appeal of a second Arab Muslim held under a secretive process allowing the government to detain and deport terror suspects without revealing the intelligence used to build the case against them. Hassan Almrei, who faces deportation to his native Syria, is one of five Arab Muslim men detained since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks under Canada's new "security certificate" process. Almrei says he fears death or torture if he is returned to Syria. Last month, he ended a 73-day hunger strike protesting his solitary confinement.
The high court agreed in August to hear the case of Adil Charkaoui and is considering a third appeal application by Mohamed Harkat. "We're pleased that we'll be able to address what are clearly issues of national importance before the Supreme Court," said Almrei's lawyer, John Norris. "Mr. Almrei's case is part of the fundamentally important project of defining what are, and what are not, acceptable responses under Canadian law to allegations of terrorism." Charkaoui, 32, is the only one of the five not in jail. The Montrealer was released on $43,000 bail in February and continues to fight deportation to his native Morocco.
Almrei, 31, has been held in solitary confinement at a Toronto detention center since Oct. 19, 2001. He admitted training in Afghanistan and lying about his past to get into Canada as a refugee claimant in 1999, but he denied any link to al-Qaida or Osama bin Laden, as alleged by federal intel
Posted by: Fred ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Last month, he ended a 73-day hunger strike protesting his solitary confinement.
Hunger strikes only work when someone actually gives a shit that you're on one. Looks like it took 73 days for the lightbulb to finally click on in Hassan's head that... nobody did.
#3
Send him to Khartoum - by B-52. Drop him from 48,000 feet. He'll freeze, then hit like a big rock. If we use the proper windage, I'm sure we can put him directly into some government office or a mosque. Kinda like dropping concrete bombs, from that altitude.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/21/2005 16:46 Comments ||
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#4
they could probably be fitted into one of those JDAM retrofit kits for precision delivery to the address of their choice.
WASHINGTON - A suspicious van is forcing the evacuation of about 1,000 people at a building on Capitol Hill. The vehicle is reported to be in the 100 block of First Street, NW. The Associated Press reports an unidentified man who claimed to have a suspicious device in his car has been taken into custody.
Brian Doyle, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security, said hazardous materials teams had been dispatched to the site. The evacuation is occurring at 101 Constitution Ave., NW. in a building that houses various private sector companies. WTOP's Capitol Hill Correspondent Dave McConnell who is near the scene says everybody is leaving calmly the building. Two sources tell CNN that a man in a van is claiming to have a bomb. The U.S. Capitol is not involved in the evacuation.
Acording to a Captiol Police alert sent to Senate staff, several streets are closed in the area, including Delaware and Constitution Avenue (Southbound); 3rd Street and Constitution Avenue, NE (Westbound); Louisiana and Constitution Avenue, NW (Eastbound).
Iraqi police have arrested four men in connection with the kidnapping of the Guardian journalist Rory Carroll in Baghdad. The police are looking for a further four suspects. Carroll, 33, who has been on assignment in Iraq for nine months, was freed on Thursday night after being held for 36 hours. He is due to fly back to his family's home in Dublin tomorrow.
The Iraqi police have seldom been proactive in hostage situations. But diplomats praised them for following a trail that started with the head of the family who Carroll interviewed in Sadr City. The trail led to a group of men who visited the home during the interview.
Carroll was released unharmed after intensive diplomatic negotiations behind the scenes. The Irish foreign minister, Dermot Ahern, disclosed today that his government had been helped by the British, French and Italian governments. Although Carroll is an Irish citizen, the Irish government, which opposed the war, has no diplomatic presence in Baghdad. Mr Ahern also thanked the Iranian government for its help. He confirmed that no ransom had been paid and said he had no knowledge of any prisoner swaps.
Within half an hour of the Guardian being alerted that Carroll was missing, government emergency hostage teams were being set up in Baghdad and in European capitals. The Guardian set up a tight-knit group of its own, and contacts were made with all sources that might help, from governments and security specialists through to clerics.
Dermot Gallagher, secretary general of the Irish foreign affairs ministry, said the Irish government had been planning to send a diplomatic mission to Baghdad. "If an intelligence team stumbled on him and if the military option was to be considered - and this was not our preferred option - we would have needed to have been consulted and we would have consulted with the Carroll family," Mr Gallagher said.
Carroll does not know whether the group that held him was criminally or politically motivated. But various diplomatic sources blamed one of the factions loosely united behind Moqtada al-Sadr, the Shia cleric who has a large following in Iraq and is backed by his Mahdi Army militia. Carroll was kidnapped in Sadr City, a Shia-dominated Baghdad slum formerly known as Saddam City. The cleric has nominal control of the area.
And is a pet dog whose leash is held by Iran, which explains the thank you note
Pressure was put by diplomats and the interim Iraqi government, including Ahmad Chalabi, the deputy prime minister, on Sheikh Sadr to help resolve the kidnap. A squeeze was also put on Salam al-Maliki, the transport minister, who is a Sadrist. Sheikh Abdul Darraji, one of the leading clerics in Sadr City, may also have had a role in helping negotiate the release. Mohammed Hassan al-Mossawy, the London spokesman for Mr Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, spoke to him at 3.45pm on Thursday and said he had promised to send members of the Mahdi Army to search for Carroll.
The Associated Press reported that a group of Sadr City residents had allegedly raided the area where Carroll was being held by criminals and freed him. This is inaccurate. Carroll's freedom was the result of negotiation. His release was carefully coordinated by the interim government.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 13:28 ||
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A defense lawyer in Saddam Hussein's mass murder trial who was kidnapped has been found dead, his body dumped near a Baghdad mosque, police and a top lawyers' union official said Friday.
Saadoun Sughaiyer al-Janabi was abducted from his office Thursday evening, a day after he attended the first session of the trial, acting as the lawyer of one Saddam's seven co-defendants.
His body, with two bullet shots to the head, was found hours later on a sidewalk near Fardous Mosque in the eastern neighborhood of Ur, near the site of his office, said police Maj. Falah al-Mohammedawi. His identity was confirmed Friday, al-Mohammedawi said. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
10/21/2005 06:27 ||
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#5
Guess the client really really really wanted a continuance of the matter or wanted to switch horses without paying the outstanding balance over the retainer. Lawyers don't do anything without clients. Clients come with all the good, bad, and ugly baggage included. In this particular case the "best client is a dead client" quip would be particularly applicable.
#8
Sounds like Iraqis want only obvious asshols to represent these killers. Anyone ranking higher than asshol may be 'removed' by interested parties. It would be silly for the defense to display any intelligence.
#9
Well, I guess he shouldn't have taken that particular retainer....
Posted by: Mark E. ||
10/21/2005 11:34 Comments ||
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#10
Well, if it's goin to take a while to find another defense atty. then I say we extradite him to Iran to be tried for the crime of the Iran/Iraq war. Everybody wins that way. Those wacky crazy mulluhs look good. Iraqis are free of him, and don't have to testify. The US looks neither good nor bad.
Over 300 foreign fighters have been captured in Iraq by US-led troops and Iraqi security forces since April and their nationalities include Israeli, Irish and British, said a senior US commander Maj Gen Rick Lynch on Thursday.
Moshe, Mick, and Nigel? I'll bet not...
However, most belonged to other Arab states, said Lynch. âTerrorists and foreign fightersâ were responsible for some of the worst insurgent attacks, such as suicide car bombings, said the US commander. But, he said that US-led forces had foiled several attacks by arresting or killing several in recent months. He told a news briefing 376 foreign fighters had been captured this year, of whom 311 were detained since the start of April.
Here's hoping they killed at least as many...
The countries of origin most represented were Egypt (78), Syria (66), Sudan (41) and Saudi Arabia (32). The list included several other Middle Eastern countries and a number of European states such as France (1)
That'd be Jean-Louis, I believe...
and Denmark (1)
"Hrarrr! I be Hrothgar, Perteckter of the Moose Limbs!"
as well as two Indians and an American. Lynch declined to give any further details about the one Israeli on the list, or the suspect from Ireland and two from Britain.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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No doubt the anti-US agendists will use them as PC = PDeniable evidence of US or Allied interference in the Muslim world - the real news here is the majority of these captured Radic Islamists are NOT Iraqis.
#4
Turn them over to the Iraqis. While there may be some ambivilance over domestic terrs, I suspect the Iraqis would love to, er..., appropriately punish foreign terrs.
#5
Are we getting compensation for taking care of these idiots from thier country of Origin. If we did'nt catch them in Iraq, they would be causing problems in thier own country.
#6
Errrah goa-onnn now! You shohw m' t' haaarrhen'd thug-een who'd be claimin ees ihre-ish but not parrtakin the wee drrrink and rashers! Ihrre-esh indeed. You tink t' uh-toritees might fancy im a nutter now?! Iz mammy n Ennis must feel ee let ehr dow-auhn like a toan of brehcks. Ah, pass the m16 to meh ganger an let us be finishin this lil jobbie. Cheers mate. Smile fer us now. Brilliant. Good crack.
#7
Like the old joke--Late at night on a street in northern Ireland a man feels a gun stuck between his shoulder blades, a 'click', and then the man behind him asks: "Catholic or Protestant?"
Thinking quickly, the man says "Don't shoot! I'm Jewish!"
To which the voice behind him replies, "Faith! I must be the luckiest Palestinian in all of northern Ireland!"
#8
I knew the terrorists were racists! They need to reach out to non-Arab country and allow their muslims a chance to die at the hands of the infidels.
RUMINT has it to be on the order of only about 3 to 1 when US forces are involved.
When its ISF, the ratio reverses (and increases in aome areas). Seems the Iraqi Army/Gaurd and Iraqi Police want to save their taxpayers the trial and incarceration costs, especially when they are foreigners (5 dead for each live one in that statistic is the figure I've heard).
A key prosecution witness in Saddam Hussein's trial will testify at an unexpected session Sunday because the former intelligence official is seriously ill with cancer, officials said Thursday. Meanwhile, the lawyer for one of Saddam's co-defendants was kidnapped, police said. The witness, Wadah Ismael Al-Sheik, was a senior Iraqi intelligence officer at the time of the Dujail massacre in 1982 that Saddam and seven other co-defendants are charged with, two lawyers said. They spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid compromising the case or the heavy security surrounding it.
Lawyers said Al-Sheik will testify Sunday at a U.S. detention center where he is being held near Baghdad's international airport because of his cancer. If he recovers, he could be a defendant in a later case regarding another alleged massacre carried out during Saddam's rule, the lawyers said. The session would not involve reconvening the full trial, but rather would be a hearing to take a deposition from al-Sheik, the lawyers said.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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DUJAIL: Chants of "Execute the criminal" echoed around the main square of the small Iraqi town of Dujail yesterday as Saddam Hussein went on trial for the execution of 143 of its residents more than 20 years ago.
In the view of the victims' families, death is too kind a punishment for their ousted president. His family should be executed with him in the same spirit of reprisal that he showed after a failed attempt on his life in 1982. "Saddam Hussein should be executed, him and his whole family," chanted the 100 or so demonstrators who gathered to greet the appearance of Saddam and seven co-defendants in the dock in a Baghdad courtroom.
Except for Uday, and Qusay; curiously, they aren't around to be executed ...
"Death to Saddam," screamed the placards brandished by the demonstrators alongside pictures of their lost loved ones. "We cannot move on as long as Saddam remains alive. The people of Dujail demand the tyrant's execution."
The town still bears the scars of the reprisals exacted by Saddam's security services in razed homes and uprooted orchards. "Saddam, his daughters, his entire family should be executed," said Hadia Najem Abbud, who lost five brothers in the punishment operation, one of them just turned 11. Hussein Zeidan concurred. "He showed no pity for innocent civilians and killed women and children.
"We call on the government to demand the extradition of his fugitive daughters from Jordan and try and execute them too, just like he did to our kids."
Like other bereaved relatives, Zeidan still has no idea where his lost loved ones are buried. Scores of mass graves have been identified around Iraq since the 2003 US-led invasion but none of the remains of the missing have yet been located. "Karim was 20 when they took him away in front of his seven-months pregnant wife," said Mona Zeid of her missing brother. "He was executed and his body was never handed back to us," she said. Police and troops manned checkpoints on all roads leading into Dujail for the opening of Saddam's trial in a reminder that his prosecution is not universally welcomed.
For the 50,000 or so residents of the town of Dujail just north of Baghdad, like the rest of Iraq's Shiite majority community, the passing of his Sunni Arab-dominated regime is celebrated. But among Sunnis who benefited from his regime, its overthrow is widely mourned, sometimes opposed with violence.
In the ousted president's hometown of Tikrit, loyalists took to the streets to denounce the "foreign agents" of the "traitor government" that had put him on trial. US troops posted around Saddam's former palace in the city centre fired warning shots to disperse the demonstrators who poured on to the streets after a rally in a nearby stadium. "With our soul, with our blood, we will sacrifice ourselves for you Saddam," the protestors chanted in the traditional oath of loyalty to the old regime.
The demonstators, some of whom were armed, then gathered near the city's main mosque in a tense standoff with police manning a roadblock just 500 metres (yards) away. The rally was the third in Tikrit in support of Saddam in just 24 hours and was mirrored in other towns across the Sunni belt of north central Iraq.
In the former insurgent bastion of Fallujah, residents insisted their former president should never have been put on trial as any offences he committed were in defence of Iraq and the stability of its government. "Even (US President George W.) Bush would have done the same if his motorcade had been attacked," said Shaker Mohammed in reference to the 1982 punishment killings.
Couldn't be more wrong, Shaker.
In the smart Baghdad neighbourhood of Karrada, residents said Saddam needed to be judged by the standards of the region. "If Saddam is executed, then all Arab dictators should be," said teacher Raed Ihsan. "He was actually the least bad."
As noted in the comments, there's an idea ...
Posted by: DanNY ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
I'd give these people a sharpened steel spork and let them have him
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/21/2005 0:06 Comments ||
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"Even (US President George W.) Bush would have done the same if his motorcade had been attacked," said Shaker Mohammed in reference to the 1982 punishment killings.
Uh, NO.
I wonder what Saddam would have done if mud were thrown at his motorcade (instead of snowballs) and his country's medal-recipient veterans were called "stormtroopers" -- as MOH recipients were at President Bush's inauguration?
In the smart Baghdad neighbourhood of Karrada, residents said Saddam needed to be judged by the standards of the region.
"If Saddam is executed, then all Arab dictators should be," said teacher Raed Ihsan.
How intriguing!
AFP bias on calling the neighborhood "smart"...
At least the slogan-chanters wrap themselves up in their own words less and these two.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
10/21/2005 3:22 Comments ||
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#3
"In the insurgent bastion of Fallujah,"
-A mis-truth being put forth. Fallujah is actually pretty passive compared to what it was last year. Most of the activity is going on in Baghdad or out west by Al Asad and Haditha.
#4
2b - I have a different take on this on the other thread... If any money changed hands, and I doubt it this time, it went to the anti-jihadis, I'd wager.
October 21, 2005: The war against international terrorism is being fought on several fronts in Southeast Asia.
Malaysia: New Coast Guard. The Malaysians have just created a Coast Guard. By transferring personnel from the Navy, fisheries protection service, and other maritime agencies, the Malaysians have created a sea-going maritime constabulary similar to the U.S. Coast Guard. The new service is expected to improve policing of Malaysian waters, and particularly the critical Straits of Malacca, plagued by piracy.
Thailand: New Strategy Against Islamist Separatists. The recently appointed Army chief-of-staff, Sonthi Boonyaratglin, a the first Moslem to hold the post, has moved quickly to redirect Thai strategy in against the Moslem insurgency in the south. Sonthiâs appointment (as in much of East Asia, Thais usually put the family name first) was prompted by government recognition of the fact that the highly aggressive and repressive tactics being used against the Islamist rebels were actually strengthening the separatist cause, rather than weakening it. While maintaining a strong military presence, Sonthi has instituted a âminds and heartâ program, that stresses addressing local grievances, including economic development.
Thailand: Naval Reform. The Thais, who already have a pretty good navy, are planning a major reorganization and modernization of their naval forces, for the purpose of improving their ability to insure maritime security in their region.
The Manila-Canberra Axis: Both Australia and the Philippines have long looked to the U.S. for military assistance. Recently, however, the two nations have been developing direct ties to help coordinate responses to regional problems that the U.S. may overlook. Among several developments is the recent conclusion of a status of forces agreement, which will allow Australian troops to assist Philippine troops against the Islamist separatists of the Moro region in south. In addition, Australia has offered to support the Philippine effort with joint naval patrols, which is said to be very welcome in Manila. These initiatives have long-term diplomatic importance for the U.S. Most southeast Asian nations are friendly to the U.S., but tend to be wary of Americaâs enormous power and motives. Thus, the security initiatives between Australia and the Philippines are viewed as much less threatening to their neighbors.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 10:22 ||
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All five men detained in Indonesia in connection with this month's suicide bombings on the resort island of Bali that killed 20 people have now been released. Police spokesman Sunarko Danu Ardanto says two men arrested in North Sulawesi province have been released after less than two days in custody. There is insufficient evidence to link them to the October 1 attacks. Two other men arrested in Banten province on the island of Java on October 12 were released on Monday. The first man suspected of involvement in the bombings was set free last week.
Officials have said they suspect Malaysians Noordin Mohammad Top and Azahari Husin, who are leading members of the Islamic extremist group Jemaah Islamiah (JI), could have masterminded the latest Bali attacks. Noordin and Azahari are also believed to have played key roles in the 2002 Bali blasts which killed 202 people, including 88 Australians. They are also thought to have been involved in deadly suicide attacks at a hotel and the Australian embassy in Jakarta.
Posted by: ed ||
10/21/2005 06:29 ||
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There is insufficient evidence to link them to the October 1 attacks.
#2
That's going to make the Hindus in Bali even more upset. One of these days Bali is going to go its own way sans Indonesia if these goons don't wise up.
#3
I hope they choose kufr Indonesian government politicians as the target of the next attack... not much chance of that with the protection JI have seemingly been afforded thus far. I know where I won't be going on holiday next year.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/21/2005 10:41 Comments ||
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However callous it may sound, a few extra weeks of detention wouldn't have done a lot of damage to those they rounded up. One can only wonder if Indonesia remotely perceives how badly they are harming their international image with respect to fighting terrorism.
If Indonesia's sole intention is to appease their Muslim population regardless of all economic costs, they're doing a splendid job. I took a big beating here for my skepticism about Indonesia's determination to fight terrorism. There has been nothing to change my opinion in the least since then.
#7
Too right, RC! I'd wager that all Oz needs is one Islamist atrocity on their turf and all he|| will break loose. For how fiercely the diggers have fought by our side, I'd sure hate to piss them off.
Indonesia's repeated lack of outrage over Bali, a principal tourism revenue source, compared to their uproar over the much smaller Jakarta (i.e., Muslim) death toll tells the whole story.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that, no matter how catastrophic, whatever happens to this world's Muslim population will be richly deserved. Sadly, my sense of cynicism is outpacing all notions of realism with respect to this topic. My patience succumbed long ago.
BEIRUT: "Who is Mr. X?" is the question on the lips of many Lebanese following the release of the much anticipated UN report which includes a telephone conversation, intercepted by the UN probe team, between former head of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon, Rustom Ghazaleh, and a "prominent Lebanese official" simply referred to as "Mr. X." "May he rot in hell," said Mr. X to Ghazaleh during a call dated July 19, 2004, published in Detlev Mehlis' report on the investigation into the assassination of former Premier Rafik Hariri.
Speculations ran high as to the identity of Mr. X, who made some of the strongest remarks in the report against the slain former Prime Minister.
Later in the conversation, Ghazaleh says to Mr. X: "I wish to tell you one thing. Whenever we need to speak to Hariri we have to suck up to him and he does not always answer."
To which Mr. X responds: "To hell with him. What do I care about him?"
Ghazaleh continues: "What do I care about him? The President can't stand him so why should I?"
The conversation ended with an agreement to stage a street protest on July 20 "in Solidere and Qoreitem."
Interestingly, on July 20, a day after this taped conversation, Hariri declared "he would not step down" from his post because of recent criticism directed against him. Hariri said: "These campaigns are not new and have been going on for the past 12 years," adding: "They will not be behind my decision to step aside." The conversation was published to illustrate that "the structure and organization of the Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services in Lebanon at the time of the blast, including protocols for reporting, shows a pervasive impact on everyday life in Lebanon," stated the report.
Mr. X's real identity was never mentioned, in either censored or uncensored versions of the report. Mehlis explained that two versions exist due to a "technical error." However, the Al-Arabiyya news station said Mr. X could be Speaker Nabih Berri. When contacted by The Daily Star, Al-Arabiyya declined to comment as to why it chose to cast Berri as Mr. X.
But Berri's representative in Lebanon Amal MP Ali Hassan Khalil, strongly denied the allegation. "We are not involved in any way, and we are not a suspect," said Khalil to The Daily Star. Asked why he thought Berri was named, he said: "To cause chaos, suspicion and political strife, which we will not fall for." Free Patriotic Movement leader General Michel Aoun said: "Mr. X will remain Mr. X until the final truth is known," adding he will also not speculate as to who it may be.
Nonpoliticians were more willing to speculate, with names like "MP Michel Murr" being marked as "a maybe," but most had a difficult time pinning a name to Mr. X. But there were consistent observations made by all those contacted by The Daily Star.
"He is definitely a person that Ghazaleh respects given the way he speaks to him," said Tarek Zebian, a student at AUB who has been a keen follower of the political developments in Lebanon.
"He isn't a security figure, but a powerful politician who could dare to tell Hariri to resign," said Zebian, referring to a remark by Mr. X saying: "What about another option? I send [Hariri] a message saying, 'Resign goddamn it.'"
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 16:16 ||
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BEIRUT/NEW YORK: Two thousand people returned to Lebanon's Martyrs' Square Friday, in front of the tomb of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in Beirut, to call for the resignation of the presidents of Syria and Lebanon. The protests came after the publication of a damning UN report into the murder of Hariri, which pointed to the involvement of Lebanese and Syrian security services.
"Down with [Syrian President Bashar] Assad," and "Resign [Lebanese President Emile] Lahoud," shouted the demonstrators, brandishing Lebanese flags. The demonstrators had responded to a call from youth movements linked to the anti-Syrian faction of Hariri's son Saad, which is the largest grouping in Lebanon's Parliament.
From New York, Mehlis said that the "editorial process" carried out under his directions may have resulted in two differing versions of his report on the investigation into the assassination of Hariri. U.S. Ambassador to the UN John Bolton commented on the matter Friday: "I have seen several versions of the report and at the moment I don't understand why there are several versions of the report."
Mehlis said during a news conference at UN headquarters in New York on Friday that "we produced a number of versions of the report, and I was just informed and made aware that one of several earlier drafts had made its way to the media." "I think this is distracting from the main point of the report itself," Bolton said regarding the differences in the leaked reports, "the substance of which doesn't change no matter what version you have or how good you are at software."
According to Mehlis, "the official version of the report is the one that was submitted to [UN Secretary General Kofi] Annan and transmitted by him to the Security Council." He continued: "I want to make it clear that any differences between earlier versions and the final version of the text resulted from the editorial process carried out by my team under my direction and are my responsibility."
The controversy concerned omitted names of top Syrian and Lebanese officials, whom, according to a witness statement included in a version apparently never meant for the public, had "decided to assassinate Hariri." The names of Maher Assad (brother of Syrian President Bashar Assad), Assef Shawkat (Assad's brother-in-law), Syrian intelligence generals Hassan Khalil and Bahjat Suleyman, and Jamil al-Sayyed (head of the Lebanese Surete Generale), and Mustafa Hamdan (head of Lebanese Presidential Guards) were deleted in a version leaked to the press.
He said the names were left out because of "a presumption of innocence" and so as not to give the impression that the allegations made by a witness were "an established fact."
Mehlis also denied allegations by the press that the changes were made during his meeting with Annan. Yet, the changes appeared to have been made at the time when he met the Annan, according to computer printouts of the unedited report. "None of these changes were influenced by anyone," Mehlis said. Mehlis is expected to brief the Security Council on the report Friday.
Meanwhile, President Emile Lahoud denied in a statement issued Friday that he received any phone calls on the day Hariri was murdered from Ahmad Abdel-Al, a member of the Sunni fundamentalist group Al-Ahbash.
Lahoud further considered allegations that he was linked to the murder as "groundless and void," and said he had been targeted by a campaign to mar his reputation. Lahoud added that he "has complete faith in the Lebanese judiciary," and stressed "the importance of inflicting severe punishment against the perpetrators" of Hariri's killing.
Mehlis' report had stated that Abdel-Al called Lahoud shortly before the assassination, and depicted Abdel-Al as "a key figure in any ongoing investigation." Abdel-Al is currently under arrest on illegal weapons charges, while Mustafa Hamdan's brother, Majed, remains at large in the same case. Al-Ahbash denied the allegations Friday that one of its officials, Mahmoud Abdel-Al, brother of Ahmad, had any involvement in Hariri's assassination.
The Palestinian Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC) also refuted allegations in the Mehlis report that its leader Ahmad Jibril was connected to the assassination. "We are ready to present any of our members if he was proven to have a hand in the terrorist crime which we condemn," the faction said in a statement released Friday.
Meanwhile, security sources said that State Security General Faisal al-Rashid and several military officers were detained early Friday morning, shortly after the report was leaked to the press. Rumors also circulated Friday that former MP Nasser Qandil had been placed under house arrest, but a judicial source said there was "nothing against Qandil, so far." - With agencies
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 16:11 ||
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let's get that liver-lipped graphic pic of Lahoud up, mods?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/21/2005 18:50 Comments ||
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(AP) -- President George W. Bush on Friday called on the United Nations to convene a session as soon as possible to deal with a U.N. investigative report implicating Syrian officials in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
"The report strongly suggests that the politically motivated assassination could not have taken place without Syrian involvement," Bush said after helping dedicate a new pavilion at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in Southern California.
The U.N. investigative report, which Bush called "deeply disturbing," established a link between high-ranking Syrian officials and their Lebanese allies in Hariri's murder February 14 in Beirut.
Earlier Friday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she was deeply troubled by the U.N. report. She said the international community must find a way to hold Syrian authorities accountable.
Rice spoke to reporters in Birmingham, Alabama, after the release of a report by U.N. investigator Detlev Mehlis that established a clear link between Syrian officials and their Lebanese allies to the assassination.
In Washington, another top State Department official said Hariri was the victim of a "political crime" that could not have been carried out without the involvement of senior Syrian and Lebanese intelligence officials. (Full story)
Assistant Secretary of State C. David Welch said in Washington said "we would like to see those responsible for this crime and others in Lebanon brought to justice."
The United Nations' exhaustive report linked the brother and brother-in-law of Syria's president to the February 14 car bomb that killed Hariri and 20 others, and said Lebanese intelligence officials helped organize it.
The report stopped short of fingering Syrian President Bashar Assad or his inner circle. But it accused the regime of failing to cooperate in the inquiry. The report also alleged Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa lied in a letter to the investigating commission.
Rice declined to discuss next steps beyond saying that some kind of international mechanism must be established to ensure that Syria is held accountable.
She said there is strong support among U.N. members for an extension of Mehlis' mandate, perhaps until December 15.
"Accountability is going to be very important for the international community," she said.
Welch, speaking at the Foreign Press Center, said the Bush administration had begun discussions at the United Nations and with Arab and other governments on how to act on the report.
Welch said some Arab governments share the administration's concern about Syria's "destabilizing" actions in Lebanon, but he declined to identify with whom the United States was finding initial support.
Welch, who said he had read the report, said it contained "amazing evidence."
"The report concludes there is probable cause to believe the (assassination) decision could not have been taken without the collusion of top Syrian and Lebanese intelligence officials," Welch said
U.N. investigator Detlev Mehlis announced Friday that he edited some elements of his report on the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri when he learned it would be made public. Here is a look at the most significant change:
ORIGINAL VERSION:
One witness of Syrian origin but resident in Lebanon, who claims to have worked for the Syrian intelligence services in Lebanon, has stated that approximately two weeks after the adoption of Security Council resolution 1559, Maher Assad, Assef Shawkat, Hassan Khalil, Bahjat Suleyman and Jamil Al-Sayyed decided to assassinate Rafik Hariri. He claimed that Sayyed went several times to Syria to plan the crime, meeting once at the Meridian Hotel in Damascus and several times at the Presidential Place and the office of Shawkat. The last meeting was held in the house of Shawkat approximately 7 to 10 days before the assassination and included Mustapha Hamdan. The witness had close contact with high ranked Syrian officers posted in Lebanon.
EDITED VERSION:
One witness of Syrian origin but resident in Lebanon, who claims to have worked for the Syrian intelligence services in Lebanon, has stated that approximately two weeks after the adoption of Security Council resolution 1559, senior Lebanese and Syrian officials decided to assassinate Rafik Hariri. He claimed that a senior Lebanese security official went several times to Syria to plan the crime, meeting once at the Meridian Hotel in Damascus and several times at the Presidential Place and the office of a senior Syrian security official. The last meeting was held in the house of the same senior Syrian security official approximately seven to 10 days before the assassination and included another senior Lebanese security official. The witness had close contact with high ranked Syrian officers posted in Lebanon.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 13:22 ||
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Syrian finger prints all over this but who is suprized?. Meeting at the Presidential Place was not a good thing.
I am pretty sure the UN will do something symbolic but of no substance. It will drag it's feet in doing so. Finally up with some lame diplo-speak moral equalivance crap about how it's our fault somehow for attacking Iraq.
The names of Syrian President Bashar Assad's brother and brother-in-law and other top Syrians were edited out of the final report of a U.N. investigation as helping to plot the assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri according to a witness, U.N. diplomats said Friday.
Kofi break out his bottle of whitewash, er, whiteout?
The earlier version of the report by Germany prosecutor Detlev Mehlis was inadvertently sent out to some U.N. Missions and some journalists were also able to see the deletions.
Ooops!
At a hastily called news conference, Mehlis told reporters that he stands by the final version and deleted names because since they were identified by a witness and had not been corroborated 'it could give the wrong impression' of guilt.
"Pay no attention to these names. These are not the names you were looking for. Move along"
'None of these changes were influenced by anyone,' Mehlis said.
Right. Handy that un-edited version was "inadvertently" sent out by "mistake".
ADDITIONAL: Detlev Mehlis, head of the UN commission probing the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri, says he personally deleted the names of some Syrian officials from the final report. Aljazeera quoted Mehlis, addressing a press conference in New York on Friday, as saying that the names of the Syrians had been removed on presumption of their innocence.
He made the deletions under no pressure from any party, Mehlis added.
The 53-page report the veteran German prosecutor sent to the Security Council late on Thursday accused Syrian officials and their Lebanese allies of hatching an intricate scheme to kill al-Hariri and 20 others in a 14 February truck bombing in Beirut. Perhaps the most explosive section of the report described an account of the plotting given by an unidentified Syrian witness. The witness said that Maher al-Assad, the brother of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, and the president's brother-in-law, Major-General Asef Shawkat, were among a group of Syrian and Lebanese security officials who "decided to assassinate" al-Hariri in a mid-September 2004 meeting in Damascus.
But while the names appeared in an early draft of the report, they were removed before the final version was released. One version of the report circulated at the UN showed the precise details of the computerised editing process, identifying what was deleted and when the edits took place. The tracking details indicated that the names of Maher al-Assad, Shawkat and others had been deleted at the time Mehlis was meeting on Thursday UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who had earlier promised not to edit the report.
Fancy that
While Shawkat, widely seen as the No 2 man in the Syrian government, was named in several parts of the report, Maher al-Assad's name appeared only once in the first draft and not at all in the final version.
Mehlis and UN chief spokesman Stephane Dujarric quickly insisted on Friday that the editing had been done by Mehlis himself and not by Annan, who had transmitted the report to the Security Council about seven hours after receiving it from Mehlis. "This is Mr Mehlis' investigation. This is his report. The secretary-general has at no time made any attempt to influence the report," Dujarric said. "I would urge you to look towards unfortunate clerical error rather than to conspiracy," Dujarric said.
"I blame MS Word!"
Mehlis, who plans to brief the Security Council on the report next Tuesday, said any editing changes "resulted from the editorial process carried out by my team, under my direction, and are my responsibility". "No one outside of the report team influenced those changes. No changes whatsoever were suggested by the secretary-general or by anyone at the United Nations," he said.
US Ambassador John Bolton said the flap was distracting the UN from the report's main findings, which he said showed "clear evidence" of Syrian obstruction of justice and "probable cause to believe that the assassination could not have been undertaken without the knowledge of senior figures in Syrian intelligence". "In the absence of serious Syrian cooperation on substantive matters, the mission can't get to the ultimate truth," Bolton said. The report's substance "doesn't change no matter what version you have", he said.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 13:05 ||
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Damascus, 21 Oct. (AKI) - The Syrian authorities are reported to have rejected a request by the family of the late interior minsiter Ghazi Kanaan, to carry out autopsy on his body. Kanaan died last week from gunwounds to the head and a very swift Syrian probe gave a suicide verdict. The Arab newspaper al-Quds al-Arabi reports that the Syrian refusal to allow tests to be carried out on Kanaan's body came after rumours that the UN commission, investigating the death of Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, also wanted tests carried out on Kanaan's body.
Kanaan was heard as a witness by the UN commission, led by Detlev Mehlis, whose report was made public on Friday. The report says the many leads point to the direct involvement of Syrian officials and investigators have found evidence of Lebanese collusion in the Hariri carbomb killing. The paper said Kanaan's family were irritated by the stance of the Syrian security services, and continue to reject firmly the hypothesis that their relative had committed suicide.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 10:27 ||
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"We demand an autopsy to determine cause of death!"
"Er, Basher's personal doctor determined it was a suicide. Couldn't you see the 6 bullet wounds in the head?"
Converging evidence points at both Lebanese and Syrian involvement in the assassination plot against former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri on February 14, 2005. This is the primary conclusion of UN investigator Detlev Mehlis whose interim report is to be submitted Friday to the UN Security Council and the Lebanese and Syrian governments after he handed it in to UN secretary Kofi Annan. The full text was obtained by DEBKAfile October 20 before general publication.
Other conclusions: The crime was carried out by a group with extensive organization and considerable resources and capabilities. It was prepared over several months. The timing and location of Rafiq Haririâs movements was monitored in detail. Given the pervasive presence of Syrian Military Intelligence in Lebanon, it would be difficult to envisage a scenario where this assassination plot could have been carried out without their knowledge. The likely motive was political in the context of extreme political polarization and tension. Certain individuals may also have been motivated by fraud, corruption and money-laundering.
The UN inquiry established that many leads point directly toward Syrian security officials being involved with the assassination, Syria must clarify many unresolved questions. Several Syrian interviewees tried to mislead the investigation. A letter from the Syrian foreign minister contained false information. In the four months of the UN inquiry, more than 400 persons have been interviewed, 60,000 documents reviewed, suspects identified and main leads established. The investigation is not complete and should be continued by the Lebanese judicial and security authorities. The February 14 murder should be assessed in the light of the blasts which preceded and followed it.
Some key findings as detailed in the Mehlis interim report are disclosed here for the first time.
1. A few hours after the explosion, major evidence was removed from the crime scene, including the cars of the Hariri convoy which were transferred to the Helou barracks. A bulldozer was introduced on the day of the explosion on orders from General Mustapha Hamdan, the Commander of President Lahoudâs security detail who had nothing to do with the crime scene investigation.
2. A witness of Syrian origin who claimed to have worked for Syrian intelligence in Lebanon stated that two weeks before the adoption of Security Council resolution 1559 (ordering Syrian forces to quit Lebanon), senior Lebanese and Syrian officials decided to assassination Rafiq Hariri. A senior Lebanese security official went to Syrian several times to plan the crime. Some of his meetings took place at the presidential palace. Early February, an officer told the witness there would soon be an earthquake that would rewrite Lebanese history. Here is the unedited paragraph: One witness of Syrian origin but resident in Lebanon, who claims to have worked for the Syrian intelligence services in Lebanon, has stated that approximately two weeks after the adoption of Security Council resolution 1559, Maher Assad, Assef Shawkat, Hassan Khalil, Bahjat Suleyman and Jamil Al-Sayyed decided to assassinate Rafik Hariri. He claimed that Sayyed went several times to Syria to plan the crime, meeting once at the Meridian Hotel in Damascus and several times at the Presidential Place and the office of Shawkat. The last meeting was held in the house of Shawkat approximately 7 to 10 days before the assassination and included Mustapha Hamdan. The witness had close contact with high ranked Syrian officers posted in Lebanon.
On February 11, 12 and 13, the witness observed a white Mitsubishi van with a white tarpaulin over a flatbed at the Syrian base of Hammana. The vehicle, later proving to be the bomb carrier, left the base on the morning of February 14. Earlier on January 21, the Mitsubishi entered Lebanon through the Beqaa border, driven by a Syrian colonel from the Army Tenth Division. On February 13, the day before the blast, the witness drove one of the Syrian officers on a reconnaissance exercise to the St. George area of Beirut.
3. General Jamil Al-Sayyed (head of Lebanese general intelligence) cooperated closely with General Mustapha Hamdan and General Raymond Azar (chief of Lebanese gendarmerie) in preparing the assassination. He also coordinated with General Rustum Ghazali (head of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon) and, among others, members of the Palestinian Front headed by Ahmed Jibril in Lebanon. General Hamdan and General Azar provided logistical support, providing money, telephones, cars, walkie-talkies, pagers, weapons, ID-cards etc.
4. Another âwitnessâ who later became a suspect, Zuhir Ibn Mohamed Said Saddik, stated that the decision to assassinate Mr. Hariri had been taken in Syria, followed by clandestine meetings in Lebanon between senior Lebanese and Syrian officers. These meetings started in July 2004 and lasted until December 2004. The seven senior Syrian officials (interviewed by the UN investigator) and four senior Lebanese officials (later detained) were alleged to have been involved in the plot.
5. Saddik said the driver assigned to the Mitsubishi was an Iraqi individual who was led to believe the target was Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi (who happened to be in Beirut prior to the assassination). The explosives used were of the kind used in Iraq so as to misdirect suspicions towards extremist Islamic groups. Saddik later confessed in a handwritten document that he had participated in the planning phase of the assassination. He was subsequently arrested.
6. The day before the assassination, the head of Hariri's close protection unit, Yehya Al-Arab alias Abu Tareq, had a meeting with General Ghazali. He was so shaken up by that meeting that he went home, turned off his phone and stayed there for a few hours. The version given by General Ghazali of this meeting is not compatible with other testimony.
7. In November 2004, General Al-Hajj, Head of the Internal Security Forces, ordered the state security detail around Mr. Hariri reduced from 40 to eight guards.
8. Eight telephone numbers and 10 mobile telephones were used to organize surveillance on Hariri and to carry out the assassination. The lines were put into circulation on 4 January 2005 in the northern part of Lebanon, between Terbol and Menyeh and used to observe Mr. Haririâs habits, mostly in Beirut city.
9. On 14 February 2005, six of the telephones were used in the area between Parliament Square and the St. George Hotel and the axes of Zqaq el Blat and Al Bachoura â the route of the Hariri convoy. Beginning at approximately 1100 hrs on 14 February 2005, cell site records show that cellular telephones utilizing these six calling cards were situated so that they covered every possible route linking Parliament to Kuraytem Palace. The calls --- and the usage of the cards --- terminated at 1253 hrs on 14 February, a few minutes before the blast. The lines have all been inactive since.
10. The technical department of Lebanese Military intelligence Service, headed by Col.Ghassan Tufayli, placed important figures, including Hariri, under permanent wiretapping. The protocols were forwarded on a daily basis to General Raymond Azar and to the head of the army, General Michel Suleyman. Tufayli admitted that protocols were sent to the Lebanese President and to General Ghazali, the head of the Syrian Military Intelligence Service in Lebanon.
11. The CCTV of the HSBC bank, located close to the scene of the explosion showed a white Mitsubishi Canter van entering the area of the explosion shortly before Mr. Haririâs convoy and moving six times more slowly than other vehicles on the same stretch of road. The car entered the area one minute and 49 seconds before the Hariri convoy. Through collected samples of a part of the engine block, the vehicle was identified as a Mitsubishi stolen on 12 October 2004 in Sagamihara City, Japan.
12. The weakness of the Lebanese authoritiesâ initial action and the tampering with evidence during the first crime scene examination have made it difficult to identify the type of explosives used in the blast and track it to source - and thus denied the investigation an important lead to the perpetrators.
13. It appears that at least one of the three jamming devices in Haririâs convoy was operational and functioning on 14 February at the time of the blast. Further investigation may provide information about how the explosion was activated.
14. It appears that there was interference with a telecommunications antenna in the crime scene area at the time of the blast. This line of enquiry should be thoroughly pursued.
15. The German and Swiss expert teams deduce from the distribution of the so far located parts of the Mitsubishi Canter truck that the vehicle was possibly used as the bomb carrier. An aboveground explosion is the most feasible possibility - in which case around 1,000 kg would have been used of extra-high explosive. Samples from the crater wall indicate TNT. No sign of the trigger was found.
16. The physical evidence and the fact that small human remains were found of an unidentified person, but no large body parts such as legs, feet or lower arms, points to a suicide bomber as the most likely cause of the blast. Another only slightly less likely possibility is that of a remotely-controlled device. However, no residues of such a device have been recovered from the crime scene.
17. The Palestinian Abu Adass, who claimed responsibility for the murder in the name of an Islamic radical organization on a videotape aired by al Jazeera TV, was no more than a decoy. He was detained in Syria and forced at gunpoint to record the video tape. The videotape was sent to Beirut on the morning of 14 February 2005, and handed over to Gen Jamil Al Sayyed (head of Lebanese General Intelligence) A civilian with a criminal record and a security officer placed the tape somewhere in Hamra and notified Ghassan Ben Jeddo, an Al-Jazeera TV reporter.
There is no evidence that Abu Adass belonged to the group al nasra wal-jihad fee bilad Al-Sham as claimed in the videotape, or even that such a group ever existed. There are no indications (other than the videotape) that he drove a truck containing the bomb that killed Hariri. The evidence does show that Abu Adass left his home on 18. January 2005 and was taken, voluntarily or not, to Syria, where he was most probably killed.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 09:14 ||
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Reports at the time stated Hariri, as one of the richest men in the world, was paranoid and traveled with a sophisticated cell phone jammer to prevent remote detonation of a bomb. That would explain the interference noted, but not how it was actually done. What I have never really seen is the motive for such an elaborate plan. Anyone?
DAMASCUS - A human rights group claimed on Thursday that its leader, a prominent Syrian human rights activist, was severely beaten earlier in the day by three unidentified motorcyclists.
Hell's Angels?
The Syrian Centre for Judicial Research said in a statement that three men on two motorbikes had intercepted the car of Anwar Al Bunni, a leading human rights lawyer, near his house in the Al Qabboun district of Damascus and severely beaten him before fleeing.
It said that Al Bunni, who is one of the most outspoken critics of President Bashar Assadâs government, suffered minor bruises to his head and eyes.
Couldn't have been gummint hard boyz then; they'd would have broken bones.
Denouncing the attack as âbarbarian behaviourâ, the statement said it followed a foiled attempt to direct âfabricated chargesâ against Al Bunni two weeks ago. It called on all human rights activists to exert efforts to protect fellow activists in Syria and pledged that such attacks would never dissuade activists from defending the causes of their people and homeland.
Al Bunni went into hiding on August 11 to avoid arrest after claiming authorities framed him to thwart his activities, his brother Akram said. The issue, he said, began outside the Justice Ministry in Damascus, when a Syrian woman quarrelled with Al Bunni for refusing to plead her case. The woman shouted and fell to the ground before being taken to hospital. She later claimed Al Bunni had beaten her, Akram said.
Sounds like a set-up.
âThe Syrian authorities are trying to harm my brother just because he is a human rights activist and has many anti-government stands,â Akram Al Bunni claimed.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/21/2005 01:54 ||
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Radic Islam = Communism = you have the right NOT to know you have no rights. Unike the evil, secular Commie atheists whom offer only failed and failing Socialism, we Radics offer God/Faith-based failed and failing Socialism - the Commies know they'd failed but pretend that they didn't, but under Radical Islam you'll know you'd failed and God demands that you do!?
There is "converging evidence" of both Syrian and Lebanese involvement in the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri, a UN investigation says.
Whoa! Careful with that feather! You almost knocked me over!
Led by veteran German prosecutor Detlev Mehlis, the probe into the 14 February killing of al-Hariri has established "that many leads point directly towards Syrian security officials as being involved with the assassination".
But... I thought the witnesses were all dead?
The report was handed over to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Thursday morning, and Annan transmitted the report to the 15-nation Security Council and the Lebanese government on Thursday evening. The report said that it was well known that Syrian military intelligence had a pervasive presence in Lebanon at least until the withdrawal of Syrian forces in line with UN Security Council resolution 1559. "Given the infiltration of Lebanese institutions and society by the Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services working in tandem, it would be difficult to envisage a scenario whereby such a complex assassination plot could have been carried out without their knowledge," the report said.
If you're gonna be in the driver's seat, you're gonna leave your prints on the steering wheel...
Because of this, it is now incumbent on Syria "to clarify a considerable part of the unresolved questions" facing investigators, the report said.
Y'mean, like who the actual button men were?
The Mehlis commission said its findings to date indicated that the truck bombing that killed al-Hariri and 20 others in the streets of Beirut was carried out by a group "with an extensive organisation and considerable resources and capabilities". The strongly worded report by Mehlis said the Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services kept tabs on al-Hariri before his assassination by wiretapping his phone, and there was evidence a telecommunications antenna was jammed near the scene of the car bomb that killed him and 20 others on 14 February.
That little bit doesn't quite fit the al-Qaeda style, does it?
"The crime had been prepared over the course of several months," it said. The report also said that Syrian officials including Foreign Minister Faruq al-Shara had sought to mislead its investigation.
No! Reeeeeaaally? They wouldn't do that, would they?
"While the Syrian authorities, after initial hesitation, have cooperated to a limited degreeâŠseveral interviewees tried to mislead the investigation," the commission said in its report. "The letter addressed to the Commission by the Foreign Minister of the Syrian Arab Republic proved to contain false information," it said.
Maybe we need a stoopid meter?
The report said a Syrian witness living in Lebanon who claimed to have worked for Syrian intelligence in Lebanon told the commission that "senior Lebanese and Syrian officials decided to assassinate Rafiq al-Hariri" about two weeks after the UN Security Council adopted a resolution in September 2004 demanding the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon. The witness, who was not identified, claimed a senior Lebanese security official went to Syria several times to plan the crime. At the beginning of January 2005, a high-ranking Syrian officer posted in Lebanon told the witness that "Hariri was a big problem to Syria".
Wotta buncha dumbasses. Seems he's become an even bigger problem now that he's dead.
"Approximately a month later the officer told the witness that there soon would be an `earthquake' that would re-write the history of Lebanon," the report said.
Seems to have happened, doesn't it? Only not the way they intended.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Believe it or not - when Chirac's pissed and Putin won't get in his way, the UN can actually lose the blinders and see. :P
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
10/21/2005 1:54 Comments ||
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CAIRO (AFP) - Egyptian police clashed with Muslims after they attacked a church and injured passersby in the Mediterranean city of Alexandria, angered over a DVD they consider anti-Muslim. "Nearly 5,000 faithful gathered after Friday prayers as they exited from a mosque in the Moharem Bek area in Alexandria and proceeded towards the Mar (Saint) Girgis church," the interior ministry said.
Friday prayers always git the rubes fired up
"A police force tried to prevent the protesters from approaching the church and attacking it, but they did not heed police warnings and stoned the church, the force and passersby, which resulted in injuries," the ministry said. "This left the police with no option but to use tear gas to disperse them," the statement added.
Police also used batons, witnesses said. There were no immediate details on the injuries or on whether there had been any arrests.
Well, it's not like they were doing anything disruptive, like calling for democracy
The protests came three days after a man lightly wounded a nun with a knife at the entrance to the same church, and a man who came to her aid was stabbed in the back.
Hallmark of the ROP
Islamists mounted two protests outside the church last week following the DVD release of a play produced by Saint Girgis two years ago. The play, performed by amateur actors, tells the story of a young Christian who converts to Islam and is exhorted by a sheikh to kill priests and destroy churches, according to the independent Al-Dustur paper.
So, it's a documentary?
Performances of the play had to be abandoned after it sparked a public outcry.
"They're defaming Islam by saying we're violent! Kill them!"
Church authorities have distanced themselves from the new recordings of the play.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/21/2005 15:26 ||
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#1
"Islam, is a religion of tolerance." "Islam is a religion of peace."
#2
Nuthin to see here. Move it along. Just some of the boys smashing up an Infidel church that offended Islam. You've seen it all before. Back to your homes with you. Let's go. Move it along...
#4
Napalm the nearest mosque and count the secondaries.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/21/2005 16:24 Comments ||
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#5
but dont you see? They are so passionate about their faith and about impressing Allen by how strenously they defend any hint of defamation by hurting and killing others.
Its what happens when you have to the impress the diety with how much you "love" him in order to get into heaven. Killing someone else for insulting that diety then becomes some sort of sick ultimate sacrifice for the "peaceful" man who wants nothing more than peace.
It goes back as always to the islamic ideal. mo did the same thing over and over. If someone picked on him or his "religion" they would quickly find themselves dead to preserve muslim honor/face. Its a deformed religion to its core because is so damn concerned with what other people think and say about it that violent reactions are common place. A religion with honor and its preservation as its highest ideal is going to get insulted at the drop of a hat all the time and will always have to resort to "strenous" violence in order to purify itself of the stain of insult. Anyone who is obsessed with honor cant deal peacefully with the way that the world is in real life. It cant deal with human nature. It cant deal with liberty. islam is a religion that cant deal with things not going its way or with opposition or open criticism and free speech. It cant play with the big boys. It can only be peaceful when it is in an environment where it gets to make the rules and no one else gets a say like a spoiled and rotten child. If the whole world kisses it ass, then everything is peachy. If not, we die. Some religion.
#6
Its what happens when you have to the impress the diety with how much you "love" him in order to get into heaven. Killing someone else for insulting that diety then becomes some sort of sick ultimate sacrifice for the "peaceful" man who wants nothing more than peace.
Spot on. And do pray that Gawd has a sense of houmor, I've bet my soul on it.
#7
Hey, if you were riding around for centuries on a camel's hump in sand storms so powerful, they can take the stain out of your underpants, and all you have is your honor, and your dagger, then:
May the water flow from your goatskin for the sons of ten thousand wives.
I think I just realized why they are so nuts.
From the Dept. of My Mother Always Told Me There'd Be Days Like This:
The devastating October 8 earthquake may have shifted thousands of landmines planted by Indian and Pakistani troops along the Kashmir border, a group warned on Thursday. "We are very much concerned," said Shafat Hussain of Global Green Peace, a non-government organisation that has worked since 1998 to persuade India and Pakistan to demine the region. "There are thousands of mines out there threatening to take human lives."
Hussain said areas along the de facto border, the Line of Control (LoC), are "heavily mined" on both the sides. "As the earthquake triggered massive landslides along the Line of Control, it must have surely relocated these mines," said Hussain. "We are told that respective armies do keep a proper map of the planted mines, but those maps will not help, given the devastation."
Army spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Vijay Batra played down the risk. "Landmines have been planted along the LoC and Army posts some 58 years ago. No civilian area is involved," he said. "Wherever a little bit of damage has taken place to the minefields due to the landslides, it is not affecting the civilians as no mines have drifted or shifted towards the civilian areas."
The Red Cross says that in the heat of war, mines are often not mapped or monitored and can shift depending on the weather and soil type, sometimes travelling kilometres if washed out by heavy rain. Hussain said if mines have been displaced they will put the lives of quake-hit villagers living along the LoC at risk. Scores of people have died in landmine explosions over the years in Uri district, one of the regions in Kashmir worst hit by the quake. It took the Indian Army weeks to demine a three-kilometre (two mile) stretch of road in Uri that is part of a route opened in April for a bus service between Srinagar and Muzaffarabad.
#1
Please stop this stupidity. Only asshats buy this stuff. Military use of landmines doesn't cause the issues that are being complained about. India and Pakistan know where their mines are.
#2
Sock old buddy, you're missing the potential here. I'd get my special forces guys to get into the area, real quiet like, and put down some mines in the places where the jihadis like to roam. When they go 'boom!', shrug your shoulders and sigh, "oh, that one must have shifted. Where do we send the flowers?"
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/21/2005 1:33 Comments ||
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#3
Shhh, Steve. It's a secwet....be vewwy vewwy quiet. We are pwanting boom daisies as you speak........shhhhhh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/21/2005 4:08 Comments ||
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#4
Haven't figured out if this is a bug or a feature. I guess it depends on who steps on them...
#6
Umm ... I was hoping the quake crushed a number of Al-Qaeda and Taliban operatives.
Posted by: Jim Marrs Nail File ||
10/21/2005 14:23 Comments ||
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#7
What a load of clod-whollop. Both sides know where the minefields were. They can easily plot slide areas and determine if any mines were displaced. They know where the slides ended up. If any mines survived the slide, and weren't buried 70 or 80 feet down, they MAY pose a problem to someone who is where they shouldn't be. Nobody in their right mind is going to go playing around the bottom of a landslide area, because more stuff can fall at any second. This is just another case of Greenpeace trying to get publicity by spewing some radical, near-impossible disaster scenario to try to leverage more political power.
If it's really, REALLY dangerous as these turkeys say, why don't THEY go pick up these "displaced mines"?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/21/2005 15:54 Comments ||
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The head of MI5 has submitted evidence to the House of Lords indicating that her agents are prepared to act on intelligence obtained under torture in the fight against terrorism. In a seven-page statement to the law lords, Eliza Manningham-Buller said experience showed that material received from foreign authorities as a result of what she called "detainee reporting" had "proved to be very valuable in disrupting terrorist activity". You gotta love this pragmatic female. She obviously gets it.
Ms Manningham-Buller said that MI5 and the secret intelligence service MI6 did not, as a rule, inquire closely into the origin of information received from foreign security agencies, especially when an urgent response was needed. "Where circumstances permit", the agencies would seek to acquire "as much context as possible" about how the information was obtained, she wrote. But she added: "Where the reporting is threat-related, the desire for context will usually be subservient to the need to take action to establish the facts, in order to protect life." The Law Lords are considering an earlier Appeal Court ruling that evidence obtained by abuse of detainees overseas may be admissible in a British court, so long as UK agents do not participate in or solicit it.
Ms Manningham-Buller's comments, seen by Channel 4 News, are contained in a statement to law lords hearing an appeal by 10 terror suspects who argue that evidence from torture overseas should not be used in the Home Office's attempt to deport them. A Home Office spokesman said it would not comment on the case.
#1
that evidence obtained by abuse of detainees overseas may be admissible in a British court
I always wanted to ask someone pushing this agenda: If you knew as an almost absolute certainty that a terrorists had information about where your kidnapped daughter was being held...and the kidnappers were threatening to gang-rape, mutilate, and then kill her...would you feel the same way? Any qualified answer other than "yes" would be hypocritical.
#3
It's a good question to ask. Similar to "If you knew beyond a doubt that the person infront of you has killed and raped your daughter (in whichever order), would you really care to bother about a trial and a lawful conviction? Wouldn't you just want to lynch them?"
Ofcourse I would just want to lynch them and put them to a slow death. Doesn't mean that the state should cater to my desires. Because if the state catered to *my* desires, time would come that you wouldn't like it either, anonymouse.
So, anonymouse, the other good question to ask here is this: "Are you sure that the tools you've legitimized to use against the guilty (but without any real assurances that they're indeed guilty) won't be in time come to be used against the innocent as well?"
When times comes, anonymouse, that the MI5 or MI6 tortures *you* for any possible information you may or may not have, I expect you not to complain overmuch about it.
----
Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law.
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that.
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
--
Anonymouse, since you're probably Christian, you're probably not too concerned about such usages of torture against innocent muslims, but I'm sure there are many left-wing dictatorships around the world, who truly *love* your defense of torture as a useful instrument to root-out right-wing terrorism : and most Rantburgers would be suspects of such.
But feel free to see all the above as "hypocrisy".
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/21/2005 13:02 Comments ||
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#5
Nah, I'd rather strap the sumbitch to the front of my car, douse him with water, cruise the Southeast Expressway during a January snowstorm and tap a few cars, Jimmie Johnson style.
#6
MI5 isn't doing the torture, it is acting on information that a foreign power may have obtained by torture. MI5 isn't endorsing or part of the act of torture. This is sound reasoning. To not use the information is foolish.
The "Rule of Law" card doesn't play in this game. "Rule of Law" does not apply anymore than the does the Geneva Convention (though the US is plaing like it does) in a war zone.
The cockroaches that are imprisoned in theater are not there because they forgot to get a permit to sell hotdogs on the corner. They are there because they killed someone, tried to kil someone, or were caught plotting to kill someone. It's crystal clear and simple if you have been there.
It's also obvious that islamo-fascism in all of its manifestations is a world-wide cancer...a cancer that has to be eradicated at any cost (it's obvious to all but the blind).
It's a good question to ask. Similar to "If you knew beyond a doubt that the person infront of you has killed and raped your daughter (in whichever order), would you really care to bother about a trial and a lawful conviction? Wouldn't you just want to lynch them?" That's called a non sequitur and has nothing to do with my statement.
When times comes, anonymouse, that the MI5 or MI6 tortures *you* for any possible information you may or may not have, I expect you not to complain overmuch about it. You again commit a non sequitur. You are confusing a war zone with a country where citizens and government (UK) agree to follow the "Rule of Law" (e.g., even at the height of the IRA-Protestant violence "Rule of Law" was almost always followed by the governement).
#8
The cockroaches that are imprisoned in theater are not there because they forgot to get a permit to sell hotdogs on the corner. They are there because they killed someone, tried to kil someone, or were caught plotting to kill someone.
Or perhaps because they happened to be living near the neighbourhood where a bomb exploded and thus they were seen to suspiciously linger on the area, or perhaps somebody with a grudge against them informed on them with an anonymous and unverifiable tip, or for many other reasons.
It's crystal clear and simple if you have been there.
You've been in *all* the theaters of war in the world and can thus know the professionalism and integrity of all military and police personnel of all third-world nations? Everywhere?
Wow.
MI5 isn't doing the torture, it is acting on information that a foreign power may have obtained by torture. MI5 isn't endorsing or part of the act of torture.
Now who's being naive? If cooperation by third-world governments wasn't rewarded by western powers, then they wouldn't be cooperating with said powers. But if the cooperation means torturing their own citizens, many of whom may be innocent until they happen to find a few guilty parties as well, this means that rewarding them for said cooperation means rewarding the use of torture against innocents in the hopes of catching the guilty.
It's also obvious that islamo-fascism in all of its manifestations is a world-wide cancer...a cancer that has to be eradicated at any cost (it's obvious to all but the blind).
Islamofascism is a world-wide cancer, but it's not the *only* world-wide cancer: and more importantly, being an ideology, it can't be defeated with police measures or interrogations, no matter how brutal or lenient. It can only be defeated via:
a) Crushing the governments that support it via external interventions
b) The propaganda war which will lead to the populaces of said nations to revolt against their oppressors.
The use of torture doesn't help us one iota for (a) and is extremely detrimental for (b). It would have been much better for the propaganda-warfare of our side if only our enemies tortured.
#9
Torture may not help us one iota for (a) and may be extremely detrimental for (b), but if it keeps us safe from any London Tube attacks, Baltimore harbor tunnel explosions, airplane attacks, or stadium explosions I'm willing to let our allies use their own judgment. But I can understand that your opinion there on the front lines of a Greek resort island are not the same as mine here in the NY, Baltimore, Washington area.
#10
I'm going to have to say I halfway agree with Aris here.
I say halfway because the left here has used allegations of torture and recorded instances of nonsanctioned torture by US troops (that would have never come to light if the army had given in to the blackmail and dropped the prosecution of the troops involved) to basically push for the idea that captured combatants must fall into one of only two categories: either they are prisoners of war accorded all the protections of the Geneva Convention, or they're criminals deserving of a trial in the same "Court-TV" distorted system of "if the glove don't fit you must acquit," while much of the evidence that would be used in their trial is of a classified nature, would put sources at risk, et cetera.
I am also of the opinion that the above legal analysis happens to be wrong. With few exceptions having to do with the opening stages of an invasion (I believe it's the first three days or so) by a foreign power, _according to the geneva conventions_, then they are unlawful combatants.
Now unlawful combatants _do_ have rights. They have a right to a trial at a military tribunal, and they have a right to representation during this trial. And if found guilty there must be at least a six _month_ delay between the finding and the execution of their sentence, which is usually death.
NOW... if you want to make a case for not executing them... you could. I think the case for such, and for holding until the end of hostilities (with the caveat that communication be much more limited than is normally the case with POW's, given the nature of modern terrorism) is probably much stronger for Joe Insurgent from some town in Iraq than for some "insurgent" from Yemen who gets caught planting a roadside bomb in Anbar. (The former does get more leeway under the conventions than the latter, although you may want to consult with a real JAG lawyer, which I am not).
OTTH, from my point of view, reviewing if these guys are under indictment already in their home countries and handing them over if they are is to me not in our interests.
I do NOT think that the unnamed middle eastern countries the unlawful combatants are remanded to are exactly truthful to the US about what information they obtain during their interrogation sessions.
Take, for instance, the spate of bombings in the Sinai over the past couple years. The "official" explanation is that they're all the work of Bedouin extremists, but the bombings mainly target foreign tourist groups (European and Israeli) that the Bedouin in particular have little history of animosity towards, and the Bedouin don't have very much power in mainstream Egyptian society, BUT MEANWHILE there exist terrorist groups in Egypt that are more urban in character that do have animosity towards those groups, (The Islamic Brotherhood, for example, which was the antecedent group to Al Qaeda itself, involved in previous attacks, and was even involved in the first WTC attack) and do have a history of trying to blow up tourists.
If they're not telling the truth about that what makes you think they'll be telling the intelligence agencies the truth about interrogations?
Posted by: Phil ||
10/21/2005 16:51 Comments ||
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#11
Darrell, look up the recent history of Cyprus some time...
Posted by: Phil ||
10/21/2005 16:52 Comments ||
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#12
Wait until the splodeydopes start detonating in Athens Aris, then repeat these arguments.
We are dealing with 'people' that want the total destruction of everything the West stands for, and will replace it with a misogynist, anti-democratic, theocratic, fascist caliphate where the liberal views you expouse will be ground underfoot. They are the enemy, and the sooner we all realise that fact, and destroy them, the better.
It's like all the bullshit after 9/11 when 1/3 of people getting on a plane were being searched in detail, whether they were old ladies with a bible or some Arab with a gleam in his eye and a boxcutter in his pocket.
Do I trust my government? NO of course not, but I expect them to use a modicum of intelligence (at least to save resources) and to the best of my knowledge, it's basically males of middle-eastern extraction that have been responsible for virtually *all* the terrorism in the West in the last four years - so nail *them*, and nail them bloody hard. If they get hurt, too bloody bad.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
10/21/2005 17:25 Comments ||
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#13
Darell> Nice jab, Darell, but you probably don't know that Thermopylae used to be a resort place also. And the task of those in Samos (1 km from Turkey) in case of war will be the same as there. "Stand and die, delaying the enemy as much as possible".
In the current circumstances of mostly peace and pretense-friendship between Greece and Turkey, it won't be *me* who'll have to die ofcourse, but still I won't have you dishonourably jest about *everyone* who's served at such a place in past or future.
#15
Wait until the splodeydopes start detonating in Athens Aris, then repeat these arguments.
Unfortunately, Greece is too friendly to the Russia-China-Iran axis to suffer from Islamofascist attacks.
I'm more worried about you clowns tearing down the laws in which we might have found cover when the devil turns to us and seeks to transform us to one of those eastern and third-world torture-supporting fascisms that you endorse.
Do you people REALLY want a world where every nation in the world trusts the various government to torture "terrorist suspects" as you will?
If so, then *you* end the hypocrisy and secrecy. If torture is justified, then record it, photograph it and (once immediate security concerns have passed) televise it. If you are to argue that torture is necessary then don't be ashamed to have it photographed, shown, revealed in all its glory, and offer your justifications for it in the broad light of public opinion, as *all* governmental actions must in the end be justified, if we are to remain democracy. I may object to the death penalty, but atleast you have it out in the open, you ain't being secretive about when and where it happens, and the American people supports it. Make it so with torture as well, *if* you are ready to support it in a democratic forum.
We are dealing with 'people' that want the total destruction of everything the West stands for, and will replace it with a misogynist, anti-democratic, theocratic, fascist caliphate where the liberal views you expouse will be ground underfoot. They are the enemy, and the sooner we all realise that fact, and destroy them, the better.
Start telling me things I don't know.
But the sooner you realise this global war won't end by the number of people you torture, the better also.
#20
What kind of torture are we talking about? Sleep deprivation? Humiliation? Subjection to fear?
*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/21/2005 18:56 Comments ||
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#21
Rafael has the right angle.
Seems to me that Aris would prefer that, in a situation of doubt, that innocent people should run the risk of dying in order to spare a suspect pain and discomfort,on the legal principle that the suspect is innocent himself until proven guilty. I think the label of someone who prefers that the law be upheld rather than spare the lives of innocents is "pharisee". Pharisees have forgotten the design basis of Law derived from the Romans: it is more important that the innocent not be punished than that the guilty be punished. Thus, they adhere to the letter of the law rather than to the spirit: They whine about the violation of International law when a dictator who murders millions is deposed than that dictator's victims before he was deposed.
Another interesting thing to point out is that, when presented with the hypothetical situation, Aris puts himself in the shoes of the terrorist while the other commentators put their loved ones in the shoes of the potential victims. One skilled in deconstructionism would read WORLDS into that observation, but I am not, so leave that task to another.
#22
Facts are Facts
Bad facts should be acted upon. To refuse to act is criminal.
The conditions the facts are aquired under is disconnected from the facts. You can apply morality to the conditions the are aquired under but not to the facts discovered. Facts are neither moral nor amoral.
#23
Ptah, don't read too much into Aris putting himself into the position of the target. He's right about the dangers. Think about what kind of person can inure themselves to do what's necessary for torture; and watch your back. (And when I think of torture I think of pre-invasion AbuGrhaib rather than post-invasion, though there were a few incidents that qualified.)
Posted by: James ||
10/21/2005 21:17 Comments ||
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#24
But feel free to see all the above as "hypocrisy".
We should all thank Aris for his kind permission to think critially.
#25
Ptah, I'm glad that you trust your government enough to let it torture at will, uncontrolled by anyone.
No, wait, I'm not.
Actually I'm horrified by it. If I had my way, I'd not allow the government to touch a schoolbook, let alone torture implements.
As for the concept of innonence-until-proven-guilty, and the whole idea of the right-to-trial to ascertain guilt... they're not mere legal principles. They're the bare minimum limitations imposed on the power of the state in any democratic society. If you break even *these* limitations on state power down, what else remains?
Another interesting thing to point out is that, when presented with the hypothetical situation, Aris puts himself in the shoes of the terrorist
Mmm, no, I think I put myself in the shoes of the *innocent* torture victim.
But ofcourse in *your* universe there are no innocent torture victims, are there? Nowhere in the world. Not even in the third-world "allied" dictatorships of yours.
They whine about the violation of International law when a dictator who murders millions is deposed than that dictator's victims before he was deposed.
Hello, what kind of dictators offering intelligence-under-torture do you think we're talking about?
If Bush had decided to zig instead of zagging, Saddam might have been one of those "allied" third-world dictators that was offering you "intelligence obtained under torture in the fight against terrorism".
#26
Ptah, I'm glad that you trust your government enough to let it torture at will, uncontrolled by anyone.
As far as I can tell, it isn't doing so; it merely has extradition treaties with countries that do. This is something I don't like, but I think it's as much a consequence of a refusal to recognize what legal status a lot of the unlawful combatants actually have.
If there were a solid legal foundation in place for dealing with guys who are a) illegal combatants, but b) that we don't feel like killing, nor c) allowing the sort of communication POW's are allowed, nor d) funnelling them into the "If the glove don't fit you must acquit" system... they probably wouldn't find themselves rendered back to their home countries.
Actually I'm horrified by it. If I had my way, I'd not allow the government to touch a schoolbook, let alone torture implements.
Well, that part goes along with government-funded universal education...
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/21/2005 22:30 Comments ||
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#27
Well, that part goes along with government-funded universal education...
I can think of several ways to fund education without having the government also choose the textbooks, but this is now wildly off-topic, nor is it a matter I've researched very much.
#28
If they broke it up into manageable pieces it would help more, but as it is there are school districts in metropolitan areas (like, for instance, Los Angeles) that are larger than my entire _state_'s combined school districts, and they make purchasing decisions as a whole (as does Texas...); this actually encourages the textbook companies to write their books to the lowest common denominators in the very large districts and lets everyone else live with the results.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/21/2005 22:41 Comments ||
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#29
Anyway, I'm turning in for the night in a couple minutes; I thought I'd ask, before I go, if Aris has read this report. I linked to it from here way back when, and it's something you may find interesting and/or useful in your current job. It's apparently from an old press briefing regarding "lessons learned in the Iraq conflict."
Take a look at item 7 in particular.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/21/2005 22:44 Comments ||
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#30
No, I hadn't read it -- but thanks, I will read it now.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Outlawed party leader killed in crossfire 
Meanwhile, Tangail police submitted a charge-sheet saying the outlawed extremist organisation Janajuddha provided the JMB with financial and technological assistance in carrying out five blasts in the town on August 17. During preliminary interrogation by local police, JMB activist Akhtar also admitted to his involvement with the JMB since 2001, reports our Sylhet correspondent
A British tribunal granted bail Thursday to four Algerian terrorist suspects facing extradition, a ruling that was condemned by a government official who said the men represent a threat to national security. The four men, whose names were not released, were detained in August as part of an anti-terrorist crackdown that followed London's transit bombings in July. The bail conditions set will restrict the men's movements, amounting to virtual house arrest.
Canada's Supreme Court agreed Thursday to hear the appeal of a second Arab Muslim held under a secretive process allowing the government to detain and deport terror suspects without revealing the intelligence used to build the case against them. Hassan Almrei, who faces deportation to his native Syria, is one of five Arab Muslim men detained since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks under Canada's new "security certificate" process. Almrei says he fears death or torture if he is returned to Syria. Last month, he ended a 73-day hunger strike protesting his solitary confinement.
WASHINGTON - A suspicious van is forcing the evacuation of about 1,000 people at a building on Capitol Hill. The vehicle is reported to be in the 100 block of First Street, NW. The Associated Press reports an unidentified man who claimed to have a suspicious device in his car has been taken into custody. 
Over 300 foreign fighters have been captured in Iraq by US-led troops and Iraqi security forces since April and their nationalities include Israeli, Irish and British, said a senior US commander Maj Gen Rick Lynch on Thursday. ![](http://www.devir.com.br/xmen/imgs/pc_xavier.jpg"/img)
BEIRUT/NEW YORK: Two thousand people returned to Lebanon's Martyrs' Square Friday, in front of the tomb of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in Beirut, to call for the resignation of the presidents of Syria and Lebanon. The protests came after the publication of a damning UN report into the murder of Hariri, which pointed to the involvement of Lebanese and Syrian security services. 
(AP) -- President George W. Bush on Friday called on the United Nations to convene a session as soon as possible to deal with a U.N. investigative report implicating Syrian officials in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. 
U.N. investigator 
Damascus, 21 Oct. (AKI) - The Syrian authorities are reported to have rejected a request by the family of the late interior minsiter Ghazi Kanaan, to carry out autopsy on his body. Kanaan died last week from gunwounds to the head and a very swift Syrian probe gave a suicide verdict. The Arab newspaper al-Quds al-Arabi reports that the Syrian refusal to allow tests to be carried out on Kanaan's body came after rumours that the UN commission, investigating the death of Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, also wanted tests carried out on Kanaan's body. 
DAMASCUS - A human rights group claimed on Thursday that its leader, a prominent Syrian human rights activist, was severely beaten earlier in the day by three unidentified motorcyclists.
The head of MI5 has submitted evidence to the House of Lords indicating that her agents are prepared to act on intelligence obtained under torture in the fight against terrorism. In a seven-page statement to the law lords, Eliza Manningham-Buller said experience showed that material received from foreign authorities as a result of what she called "detainee reporting" had "proved to be very valuable in disrupting terrorist activity".
