#3
The initial view of missile strike indicates it probably did hit the spacecraft's fuel tank, a defense official said, but whether or not the threat was completely eliminated is unknown at this time.
#6
ION, BIGNEWSNETWORK > C NEWS [Canada] > SCIENTISTS SAY METEOR SEEN STREAKING ACROSS PACIFIC NW LIKELY NEVER HIT THE EARTH. "Canada versus USA" as various US Netters claim something did strike terra firma on the US side, plus RUMORMILLNEWS Poster claims was possib witness to TWO SEPARATE STREAK/FIREBALL EVENTS [AM + PM].
Also from BIGNEWNETWORK + C NEWS [MACKENZIE LAND] > BIG SPACE DEBRIS HITS EARTH REGULARLY BUT NO ONE IS HURT.
Looks like SADE - SPECIAL ALIEN/ASTEROID DEFENSE EXECUTIVE - is in SMOOTH OPERATOR = OPERATION mode
D *** NG IT, she's a "SMOOTH OPERATOR...SMOOOTH OPERAAATOR, SMOOTH OPERATOR...".
#8
Uh -- OldSpook, thanks for all you do and say here.... but a little help here. Could you maybe do a "Charlie" from CBS's Number, and give us a "civilian" version of this explosion. A comparison, something like a twenty-thirty story building destroyed in downtown Las Vegas description.
#11
A lot depends on how "square" the hit was, how much "crumple" there was to impart the impact throughout the spacecraft, how much torsion and rotational energy was added (spin hard tear itself apart), how much of the hydrazine (if any) detonated etc.
Too many variables. At worst as small as a car wreck, at best, the McVeigh truck bomb.
#21
It scares the Russians and Chinese a lot worse. This just proved that their SLBMs are vulnerable to interception.
Posted by: ed ||
02/21/2008 9:16 Comments ||
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#22
correction 5000 Kg. (typo).
For you non-science folks thats 5 and a half Tons
So roughly 5 .5 tons of metal and fuel and electronics, over 50 feet around and over 90 feet long.
Nothing larger than a football is left.
That should give you a picture.
Highly unlikely anything will survive reentry.
And the shot has been likened to standing on one side of a house while someone throws a pea over the house from the other side, and you have to throw a bb to hit it.
#23
US Navy Viking #11 was fired at White Sands Proving Ground on May 24, 1954 and soared to an altitude of 158 miles and attained a speed of 4,000 miles per hour.
#25
The reports I saw say the satellite weighed 5000 pounds. I take it would be the size of a minivan.
Posted by: ed ||
02/21/2008 9:24 Comments ||
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#26
not to be a wet blanket, but this was something that was planned for days (weeks?) not like a Russian or Chinese ICBM attack with 90 minutes to respond - and it was one target, not hundreds of warheads accompanied by hundreds of decoys.
That said, this is as good a result as could have been achieved in this instance, IIUC, and is still a milestone. Congrats to the Navy.
#28
If I were running for President I would immediately announce plans for an obital battle station with a giant tri-laser focus thingy and no exhaust ports located anywhere near the power source.
#29
not to be a wet blanket, but this was something that was planned for days (weeks?) not like a Russian or Chinese ICBM attack with 90 minutes to respond - and it was one target, not hundreds of warheads accompanied by hundreds of decoys
You understate the achievement a bit, liberalhawk.
In particular this was a cold, dark object, not a missile in boost phase. Much harder to find and hit accurately, much less in the way of sensor data which would allow mid-flight adjustments.
#30
The missile and combat systems perform the intercept computations in real time. As long as the launch was detected in time and within the missile's intercept window, it has a good chance.
Decoys are not deployed while the boosters are firing (the preferred SM-3 intercept scenario) nor are they effective once entering the atmosphere (the other intercept scenario). During midcourse, ICBMs and SLBMs are too high up for the SM-3 (as far as we know). What this intercept showed was that the Aegis and SM-3 can intercept something going 15,000mph, far outside the scope of the medium range missiles the SM-3 was advertised against.
Posted by: ed ||
02/21/2008 9:34 Comments ||
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#31
Plus, of course, the SM-3 is normally pre-programmed to hit ballistic missile attacks.
The preparation for this hit, beyond deciding where to make the attempt and positioning the ships, came in reprogramming the system to find and destroy a dark cold object.
#32
The peace lobby and its media allies will have to re-double their long-running campaign against missile defense, to ensure that we are still vulnerable when Iran finally develops an ICBM.
It was a stroke of luck for the treason industry that the Chinese and the Islamists stepped in when their original client, the USSR, went out of business.
New York Times:
"LAST NIGHT THE NAVY BRUTALLY ATTACKED AND DESTROYED AN UNARMED CIVILIAN SATELLITE COSTING TAXPAYERS MILLIONS"
#33
It also was going a hell of a lot faster than the targets the SM3 is intended for - orbital velocities are higher than suborbital boost and reentry velocity of typical MRBM.
In short, although the target was well known, this was a remarkable "change of mission" for the equipment and software - and very rapidly done.
Anyone else care to take that many lines of code and that complex a system with that many interdependent components, change several of the requirements and functional parameters in the design, then make all those code changes, test them and then have it go live in less than a week with a very public unveiling?
#34
Even with advance notice, this is a huge milestone in the anti-missile technology race. This is more than proof of concept, this was a live fire. The fact that the missile and tracking software is flexible enough to change and seek a cold target, engage it an kill it, shows that just about anything coming into re-entry can be shot down.
It also neuters any argument the dhimocrats have about killing funding.
#36
not to be a wet blanket, but this was something that was planned for days
Yeah, you are a wet blanket. It took days to get mother-may-I's from various government offices with their usual 'reviews'. Not going to happen in the top threatcon. You go weapons free and there is no mother-may-I. Second, the plan had to include the largest possible debris field in a non-occupied area to minimize potential hazards to those on the ground. I doubt very much that if the real thing was incoming that people are going to be concerned with debris as much as what's on the tip of the sucker. The biggest delay in the process will be State's interference in obstructing the operational positioning of our military because they all fear 'antagonizing' those who are a clear and immediate danger.
Of course if the Russkies launch everything, it won't make much difference any way will it, because the system was never designed to address that, but feel free to move the goal posts. The Russkies were always rational about MAD. It's the irrationals that we are concerned with.
#37
Even if NASA could provide the exact cubic inch an object would be in at an exact instant, for the Navy to put their missle there then is indeed application beyond the capability of other nations. Believe me, they are in awe.
#38
Prox, do a bit of "back of the envelope" math.
Figure the numbers of ballistic missiles the Norks, and Iranians (and/or Chinese have who have a surprisingly small number of ICBM compared to the US and Russia). Figure the warheads and decoys per launcher.
Also figure in the probability of failure of the launcher, and the warhead bus, and the warheads themselves - they don't have the decades of testing and research that we have in terms of reliability of complex nuclear weapons.
that gives you the numbers they feel they need to launch to successfully hit the US.
Now count the number of SM3 that each of the Aegis class ships generally carry in "ready" state in their VLS - and that they can be ripple launched at multiple targets in a matter of seconds, if needs be.
Then factor in that there are mutlipel ships on patrol at any given time, including a few Japanese models.
Figure the odds of intercept, and that multiple launches can be made by different ships against each target, in the boost, mid-course (those interceptors in Alaska, and USAF assets), and terminal phase.
Basically, what we have done is demonstrate to the Iranians and Koreans (and to a lesser degree, the Chinese) that their nuclear ballistic missile arsenal is now capable of being countered 100% (and a substantial portion for the Chinese).
#43
not to be a wet blanket, but this was something that was planned for days (weeks?) not like a Russian or Chinese ICBM attack with 90 minutes to respond - and it was one target, not hundreds of warheads accompanied by hundreds of decoys
The following, regarding the flights at Kitty Hawk is copied from Wikipedia:
The first flight, by Orville, of 120 feet (36.5 m) in 12 seconds, at a speed of only 6.8 mph over the ground, was recorded in a famous photograph.
The next two flights covered approximately 175 and 200 feet (60 m), by Wilbur and Orville respectively. Their altitude was about ten feet above the ground.[34] Here is Orville Wright's account of the final flight of the day:
Wilbur started the fourth and last flight at just about 12 o'clock. The first few hundred feet were up and down, as before, but by the time three hundred feet had been covered, the machine was under much better control.
The course for the next four or five hundred feet had but little undulation. However, when out about eight hundred feet the machine began pitching again, and, in one of its darts downward, struck the ground.
The distance over the ground was measured to be 852 feet (260 m); the time of the flight was 59 seconds. The frame supporting the front rudder was badly broken, but the main part of the machine was not injured at all...[35]
I'd say this early effort of our BMD capability is at least as successful as the Wright brothers first attempt at flight.
#44
OS in #38 makes a nice point. My only caution is that just as the Norks, Chinese, Iranians, etc are going to have some failures at various points (launch, warhead, bus, etc), we'll also have a few. What we have is very cool but also very new. It's possible that some of the SM-3's won't launch properly, or won't get vectored properly, or won't hit the target, or won't kill the target.
So what it really comes down to is two sets of probabilities: one for their side, one for our side. That's really important for this reason: the satellite kill today is not just an impressive demonstration, it also forces potential bad guys to readjust their thinking on OUR set of probabilities. No longer can they say tht the US BMD is experimental, untested, never tried, phoney, etc. No longer can they say to themselves that our BMD can only hit a target in a carefully-defined test. Now they have to admit that our BMD can hit something it wasn't originally designed to hit.
While there are many who will try to minimize this, the smart ones amongst the bad guys are doing the calculations right now, and they don't like what they see. Now they understand that while our system still might have problems, still isn't 100%, still could fail us -- it's a lot better than they thought.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2008 10:35 Comments ||
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#45
Yep - thats a hit. And see the fl;ash and then the "cloud" around the target?
Thats what I was talking about last night that a friend passed along before they released that video- that's the hydrazine venting and igniting at the beginning. Look closely and you can see the thing literally falling to pieces.
And FYI, the Chinese do not have "hundreds" of of missiles and warheads (and the Chinese do not have decoys as far as I know - they cannot afford to loft the weight without removing warheads from any MIRV bus they may have). Neither do the Norks or Iranians. So, red herring - and incorrect on the facts.
#46
Steve White - thats what I was pointing out - especially in the case of the Norks and Iranians, we have several dozen shots that can be taken per platform, and several platforms available at any given time.
That means even if we have a series of bad luck, we have several dozen shots. The fact is we have lots of SM3, far more than the opponent has warheads. And then add in the terminal defense, and the boost phase close-in intercept.
Truth is, the equation is firmly in our favor now - SM3 are far cheaper (in constnant dollars and in relative costs as a pct of GNP) for us than their missiles and warheads are for them. For what it costs them to make and maintain a missile wiht a deliverable payload, we can field dozens of SM3 and other systems to counter.
We simply can throw numbers at them now that the technology investment has been made - its all about production capacity and our ability to operate our Navy at sea, and the land based stuff continuously. And the airborne laser components are coming on line as well, which will add even more to the probability of a kill over the flight of the missile.
Its good that the liberals and doubters were unable to derail the basic BMD research that grew into this - its bearing fruit quite well now.
#50
'Spook, I'll say it again, I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with the rest of us on this topic.
You're right--SM3s are 'way cheaper than nukes, both in absolute terms and in relative terms. We can build more interceptors than they can weapons, and build them faster.
Posted by: Mike ||
02/21/2008 11:34 Comments ||
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#51
Fitting that Ronald Reagan's "star wars" speech in March of 1983 should come to this almost exactly 25 years later. Stick it, China. You too, NYT.
IIRC, during the Cold War each side pointed 2 or 3 warheads toward each target. The idea was that anything worth nuking you had better make sure you actually hit, and there were too many variables to guarantee a hit with a single warhead. Some missile would fail, some would miss, etc.
BMD, to my mind, plays off this uncertainty. You don't have to knock down every missile, and that was never the goal. You just have to demonstrate that you can kill enough missiles that the other side can't be sure they'll knock you out.
If they can't kill you on the first strike, then they have to expect a response. No sane country would invite that, so they never shoot in the first place. Deterrence, as enhanced by BMD.
As for the insane countries, I kind of favor the Iraq approach.
#53
Why not vote for a democrat so he or she can give China the technology ? After all, we can't trust Imperial United States to govern the world in a fair way. Let there be hope.
/snark
Posted by: Kelly ||
02/21/2008 13:17 Comments ||
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#56
Considering the type of satellite it was, the hydrazine tank may have been a decoy. The real mission may have been to make sure that no hostile country "recovered" any useful pieces of the satellite, if they made it to the ground without burning up. The Navy may not only have been trying to keep anyone from being hurt on the ground, they may also have been trying to ensure that some very classified technology didn't fall into the wrong hands. Either way, it's a major achievement, and well worth celebrating. Now we have to convince Congress and the Navy to add another 30-40 AEGIS cruisers to its inventory. We might also look into a ground-based version, since it's proven so successful. Wouldn't THAT put the Ruskies in a dither!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/21/2008 13:36 Comments ||
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#57
I recall a "look at it this way" twist to the BMD argument: Let's go ahead and assume we can only take out 50% of the incoming warheads. Compare that with a treaty in which the Soviet Union gives up and mothballs 50% of its launchers.
Of course, such a "reduction" in the soviet arsenal is being unilaterally imposed, which is what the real beef was.
#59
The shot was dead on, and regardless of what the thing was, or was not carrying, the technology demonstration was enough to cause a serious rethink in a lot of different countries.
The discussion about number of warheads, launchers, decoys, etc is all good, but ( and while i don't want to share a wet blanket with anybody) the bad guys ( primarily Chicoms) would be better off if rather than try to devise a system to shoot down the SM-3s, they instead ensure that they have targeting data on all the Cruisers. They have already demonstrated they can get a sub to well within striking distance of a CV ( with a lot more AWS assets than a 'small boy') so if you sink the mother ship prior to launch, then there is no need to worry about anything getting airborne.
Just another dimension to think about, is all I'm sayin.....
#60
To all the commenters who whine that "we can't stop them all..." a standard liberal trope is: "If it saves one child." I guess that doesn't apply in the case of stopping a nuke tipped ICBM. Another standard liberal trope is to snivel, "It won't stop a smuggled in suitcase nuke." That can be rephrased as "Your cancer cure is useless, as it does nothing about the flu, bad breath or acne."
Chumps.
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
02/21/2008 14:33 Comments ||
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#61
The comments on this over the last couple of days have been Rantburg U at its best. Thanks to the professionals out there especially OS for taking the time to 'splain it to me.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/21/2008 14:38 Comments ||
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#62
If they can't kill you on the first strike, then they have to expect a response. No sane country would invite that, so they never shoot in the first place. Deterrence, as enhanced by BMD.
Yeah, but we're talking Iran and NorK. And I trust Iran less than I trust NorK.
All this is great news for ICBMs (if you're a Westerner, anyway!), but AlQ likes to move their stuff around via donkey express. We still have to secure the borders. And what's to stop another country from bringing nukes (or anything else, for that matter) in this way, too? The "upside" of this approach is that it would be difficult for AlQ at least to smuggle in enough bombs to cripple the country.
#63
Funny thing never discussed about a smuggled in nuke is that it would probably be exploded in NYC or DC. Can you just hear the dems whining "You have to spot us 8 million votes in the next 22 elections." Can ya?
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
02/21/2008 14:48 Comments ||
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#64
#60 To all the commenters who whine that "we can't stop them all..." a standard liberal trope is: "If it saves one child." I guess that doesn't apply in the case of stopping a nuke tipped ICBM. Another standard liberal trope is to snivel, "It won't stop a smuggled in suitcase nuke." That can be rephrased as "Your cancer cure is useless, as it does nothing about the flu, bad breath or acne."
#65
A day to remember! Yea Navy, for this pic! And Mods, I know rules about pics, but this young man earned this... (I would size smaller, but I don't know how!)
Feb. 20: U.S. Navy Petty Officer 2nd Class Andrew Jackson activates a modified tactical Standard Missile-3 from the Combat Information Center of the USS Lake Erie as the ship operates in the Pacific Ocean.
#66
Some Rantburgians are giving the left too much credit.
It will be a long time, if eve, before they get to the "yes but it doesn't cure acne" trope.
They are still stuck on various conspiracy tropes (e.g., chimp wants to use flight suit, had to shoot something, help McCain in election, etc.) for why it was done. To get to the "... it doesn't cure acne" stage they would have to reconcile get by these issues and a few others.
#67
look you guys misunderstand me - I congratulate the team on the technical achievement. Like the Wrights first flight and all that.
And Im quite aware that the NORKS and Iranians dont have the same capabilities as the USSR. But that refocus WAS moving the goal posts - when the whole concept was first proposed, and when serious Dems critixcized it, the USSR WAS the adversary that was envisioned. So the jump from this to "it did all Ron W Reagan said it would do" is, AFAICT, unjustified. I do approve of development of a system to counter NORK and Iran. Though even so Im not convinced it will make nuclear weapons in those hands safe or acceptable.
Re:China - Does China really not have hundreds of warheads? I thought they did.
China has hundreds of nuclear weapons but little more than a handful of ICBMs. China-ICBMs at Global Security Chinese SLBMS are similarly scarce. Their bomber force is a relic from the 1950s and lacks the range for intercontinental strikes.
Chinese strategic weapons development has been plagued with delay and technical failure for decades.
#70
Damn--it's another fine day to be an American when one can witness another impressive accomplishment like this!
I'd like to add my Kudos to OS and others who helped explain the sci & tech behind this. It only adds to the awe I feel.
Nice shooting, Navy!
Posted by: Dar ||
02/21/2008 16:33 Comments ||
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#71
LiberalHawk: in defense of Reagan, BMD to stop the USSR was the ultimate goal but Reagan knew we couldn't get there all at once.
I wouldn't call this moving the goal posts, I'd call it adapting to changes in history and politics. The real concerns today, as opposed to 30 years ago, are Iran and North Korea, not the USSR. The SM3/Aegis system is admirably suited to meet that concern.
An adversary that has > 500 missiles can beat SM3/Aegis (today). But logistics favors Aegis, since, as Old Spook points out, it's cheaper for us to turn out a hundred SM3s than it is for China to turn out 10 ICBMs.
Sherry: the pic is welcome and appropriately sized. What I love about this is Aegis is a system that gives a PO2 the shot. Love it!
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2008 17:38 Comments ||
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#72
Libhawk, re: Chinese.
I posted to the other thread about the Chinese throwing a tantrum, but essentially China at this moment has 4 MIRVD (6 RV) missiles and 20 single RV missiles. All 70's vintage and liquid fueled. Takes them 30-60 minutes minimum to prep for launch, and longer than that if the RVs are not mated to the launch vehicle, as is rumored to be the case. They have an 8 percent (some say hihger) failure rate with those launchers, and approximately 5 percent RV/warhead failure (higher for the MIRVs due to complexities of the bus). And these missiles have a CEP that may be as large as 3000m. Aim at LA, and splash it 2 miles offshore. WOudlnt want to be near it, but it woudl tend to mess with Catalina Island more than LA (outside of EMP and fallout).
They have a ballistic Missile Sub, hosting the equivalent of a 5000km range old US SLBM, single warhead. High trajectory low speed (easier intercept)
All from open sources and "RUMINT".
So the Chinese 42 land based RV tops, and another 12 shipboard. Thats 54 ICBM/SLBM total.
If you throw 2 waves of 88% (current success rate) SM3 (1 per RV, takes maybe 3 ships to launch them, ont unreasonable given the amount of prep time thier launchers take) and another layer of the interceptors in Alaska, and final fire in CA, you're talking having less than 1% chance of getting just one warhead to detonate on target.
They are trying to remedy this with the Dong Feng 41 (DF-41), which will have up to 4 RV of 0.3-1 MT yield each. Those are expected to be 2-3 years away from initial operating capability.
But until then, this pretty much makes it possible to defend the US from an Alpha Strike by China.
And as for North Korea and Iran? Well, 1 or 2 missiles with a single RV/warhead each would be less even that chance.
This does assume that the SM3 and other systems work under wartime mass repeated launch as they do in the tests so far.
Still even a worst case for the US and best case for China gives then a 1 in 6 chance of getting a single warhead to detonate in the US, in exchange for their entire ICBM arsenal.
#73
FYI, the ORIGINAL intent of BMD under Reagan was to stop the "lone madman" type of strike, and only when it was obvious that it might do more, did things balloon.
And Lib, the argument I made in the other trhead was this;
Compare the cost in comparative dollars, or in percentage of GNP of an ICBM with MIRV and RVs, to the cost of the dozen SM3 that it takes to shoot it down.
And the problem for the ICBM side is that as the SM3 get more effective, there is nothing they can realistically do to aid penetration past a given point (US ICBM designers faced this issue a long time ago). And we cna make so many more for less effort and cost. The equation is really on our side unless China wants to build out a lot more ICBMs and sink money into MIRV , RV and decoy technology.
I say this may knock some sense into them - because if they go uparming, the Russians and Indians will be forced to reply in kind, enlarging their arsenals. Money better spent elsewhere
#74
The country that may be taking the biggest gulp is Pakistan. They are now sitting on lots of conventionally undeliverable nukes with plenty of terrorists ready to deliver them unconventionally opening Pakistan to retaliation.
If Bush were smart, he'd offer the newly elected secularized Pak government a de-nuclearized India and lots of $ in exchange for the Pak nukes and give India Aegis/SM3 open kimono and mutual defence treaty in exchange for de-nuclearizing.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft., according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey and Pakistan.
Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively, and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska.
#7
Darrell has my vote for "Snark o' the Day" Kerry was a big 'nuff idiot to blame the recent tornado tragedy on global warming...I wouldn't be surprised to see him pin this close call on MMGW as well.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
02/21/2008 16:31 Comments ||
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#9
Te Brutal Afghan Winter(tm) finally inconveniences someone...
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
02/21/2008 16:40 Comments ||
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#10
I wouldn't miss them at all. We coulda had a nice triple funeral, pomp, music, crying and registering with history a much more kind set of memories than any of them deserve.
#12
Nah. But an Air Medal for Jawn is probably not out of the question. Maybe a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Maybe the three of them will put each other in for one.
#14
Couldn't we have had a hostile fire shoot-down, with only the crew and soldiers escaping without a scratch?
This way, the trio will blame the military for not having a safe helicopter.
Posted by: Bobby ||
02/21/2008 17:14 Comments ||
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#15
"After several hours, the senators were evacuated by American troops and returned overland to Bagram Air Base, and left for their next scheduled stop in Ankara, Turkey," the Kerry statement said. "Sen. Kerry thanks the American troops, who were terrific as always too stupid to get a job at Burger King and who continue to do an incredible job are trapped in Afghanistan."
Ooooop, sorry. I embellished his statement with a botched joke.
I wonder if he made them use sedan chairs and carry him out?
#23
Afghanistan: Senators make emergency landing and are driven to Bagram airfield.
What's all the fuss about! I John f'g Kerry [me] was there! As I auto-rotated the 'copter down I had already set course for all of us to march overland to Cambodia!
BTW, did I ever show you all my Medals and Purple Heartz?
#25
That's the first time he hasn't said the "V" word. He served there, you know.
You are so thoughtful Dearest, Thank you!
Did I ever tell you Honey that I disrupted the entire NVA effort in VI Corps.
[shhh, little secrete to keep between us Sugar, I flanked the NVA so hard once that I went completely SideWays and wound up in Cambodia *WHEW!*
..even got a medal for it!
THIRTY Taliban militants were killed in a joint Afghan and foreign special forces operation backed by air support in southern Helmand province. The five-hour coordinated attack on four targets also killed a Taliban commander, Mullah Abdul Bari, according to the Afghan defence ministry. Eleven others were arrested.
"Into the paddy wagon wit' yez! You, too, One-eye!"
"Mullah Abdul Bari, a Taliban commander, was wounded in the attacks and later died of his wounds in hospital," it said.
"Roseburrrrrrr..."
The troops attacked insurgent cells between Musa Qala and Kajaki districts of Helmand province. Musa Qala was a Taliban stronghold for most of last year and the militants still control at least three districts in Helmand province. The forces said they also seized weapons, two trucks full of explosives and 500kg of drugs. They also destroyed a heroin-processing factory.
"Awww, man! They got my stash!"
"There, there, Mullah Omar! We'll get more! Here! Try some of this coca paste that nice man sent from Venezuela!"
"Whoa! Primo stuff! Lissen to the colors!"
The Afghan defence ministry would not specify if their operation was conducted together with NATO-led troops or US-led coalition forces.
"I dunno. I didn't notice. We were busy at the time."
It said there were no casualties among the joint forces or civilians in the operation.
"No, we didn't kill any civilians. None. At all. Piss off."
(KUNA) -- The Afghan government Wednesday said suspected Taliban militants have kidnapped two officials in the comparatively peaceful western zone of the war-battered country. The Interior Ministry, in a statement here, said the two employees of the education department were abducted at gunpoint in the western province of Farah, bordering the volatile Helmand province in the southern zone. The two people were kidnapped by a local militant leader Ibrahim on Monday. They were supervisors in the department in Farah province.
The statement asked the relevant agencies to keep a check on miscreants and ensure safey of the government employees in the remote areas of the country. In Afghanistan, government employees is an easy target for the militants, who are often abducted and killed especially in the southern region, comprising Kandahar, Helmand, Zabul, Khost and Paktia provinces.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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(Xinhua) -- Afghan forces backed by the U.S.-led Coalition forces have detained 11 suspected Taliban militants from Afghanistan's southern Zabul province, a statement of the Coalition released here Wednesday said. These suspects were detained on Feb. 19 from Dey Chopan district during an operation to disrupt Taliban leadership networks in the southern province, it said. The Coalition said all the detained individuals will be questioned on their involvement in Taliban operations as well as other illegal activities.
Taliban outfit has yet to make comment. Zabul and the neighboring provinces of Helmand, Uruzgan and Kandahar have been regarded as the hotbed of Taliban militants in the war-ravaged Afghanistan.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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An explosion has killed one British soldier and wounded another while they were on patrol in southern Afghanistan. Britain's Ministry of Defense said the blast occurred Wednesday as the patrol was trying to disrupt Taliban activity in Helmand province. The cause of the blast was not immediately known. The wounded soldier was taken to the British base at Camp Bastion for treatment of minor injuries.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Were they wearing Tupperware bowls for helmets and baseball catcher's chest protectors for body armor?
A fresh Sudanese offensive by government soldiers and Arab militiamen against rebels in the wartorn Darfur region has trapped thousands of refugees along the Chadian border, the rebels and humanitarian workers said Wednesday.
Local rebel commander Abbas Mohamed said a dozen civilians were killed and 20 arrested during the latest government attack, which targeted the Jebel Moon area of West Darfur on Tuesday. The Sudanese military said eight soldiers were killed and 15 wounded in Tuesday's fighting
"Fighting is still going on," Mohamed told The Associated Press by satellite phone from Jebel Moon. Three rebels were also killed, he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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Four Kuwaiti attorneys have filed a lawsuit against two Shiite MPs accusing them of being founders and members of Hezbollah Kuwait . "We accused them of being founders and members of Hezbollah Kuwait, undermining national unity and declaring loyalty to Lebanon's Hezbollah," attorney Dhaidan al-Mutairi said after meeting with the public prosecutor.
The lawsuit names Kuwaiti MPs Adnan Abdul Samad, who spoke at the rally, and Ahmad Lari. The lawsuit was prompted by the rally that was held in Kuwait to mourn the assassinated commander of Lebanons Hezbollah group . The rally was held last Saturday to mourn Imad Mughniyah, who was assassinated last week in Damascus. Hundreds of Shiites participated in the rally.
The parliamentary Popular Action bloc, which includes prominent opposition members, said it "utterly rejects and condemns" the participation of lawmakers Adnan Abdul Samad, and Ahmad Lari in the Saturday eulogy which "bloodied the hearts" of Kuwaitis The parliamentary bloc said Wednesday it has expelled the two Shi'ite lawmakers from its bloc for eulogizing Hezbollah's, Imad Mughniyah, because they disregarded the feelings of their fellow Kuwaitis.
Continued on Page 49
This article starring:
ADNAN ABDUL SAMAD
Hezbollah Kuwait
AHMED LARI
Hezbollah Kuwait
Dhaidan al-Mutairi
IMAD MUGHNIYAH
Hezbollah
Hezbollah Kuwait
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Japan resumed its refueling mission in the Indian Ocean on Thursday in support of U.S.-led antiterrorism operations following a nearly four- month hiatus, with a Maritime Self-Defense Force ship providing fuel to a Pakistani destroyer.
#2
This is a big thing when considering 'projection' to sustain operations beyond your local littoral. Think China and her growing dependency on the sea lanes. China either defaults to the US to protect the sea lanes [which means playing nice], or had better start pumping real money into the means to protect those lanes themselves.
#3
Proc, problem is that a true blue-water navy takes time and money - and lots of intellectual freedom - to develop and run properly. The Chinese have none of these in their favor now; they still follow the old Soviet style in tactics and design. So they are stuck with the Soviet Unions approach which was necessarily based in denial, since all they needed to do was cut off resupply and commerce. What they need is nearly the polar opposite: clearance of sea lines and maintenance of maritime lines of communications.
That takes a sustainable Navy at sea, emphasis on individual action, command, and accountability, and things like innovation in tactics and so on. And ships built for sustaining themselves, and crews well trained in damage control.
#4
They don't, as a society seem to have a flair for that Old Spook. They have more of an "every man for himself" mindset from the chinese I have known.
A 21-year-old Clearwater man was arrested at Tampa International Airport this weekend after security personnel found a box cutter in a hollowed-out book, authorities said.
If convicted, Baines faces up to 10 years in prison and up to a $250,000 fine for a federal charge of attempting to board an airplane with a concealed dangerous weapon. He is currently serving a 30 day sentence after pleading guilty Monday to a state misdemeanor charge of carrying a concealed weapon.
Officers found books in the backpack titled "Muhammad in the Bible," "The Prophet's Prayer" and "The Noble Qur'an." He also had a copy of the Quran and the Bible.
About 7:30 a.m. Sunday, airport security ran Benjamin Baines Jr.'s backpack through an X-ray machine and saw the image of a box cutter, according to a report from the Transportation Security Administration. When searching the backpack, a security officer found a book titled "Fear Itself." The book was hollowed out, and the box cutter was inside.
After Baines was read his rights, he said his cousin had cut away the pages to make the hollow section in the book. Later, reports state, he said he had hollowed it out himself to hide money and marijuana from his roommates.
Baines told officers he was moving to Las Vegas and forgot the cutter was in the book.
Officers found books in the backpack titled "Muhammad in the Bible," "The Prophet's Prayer" and "The Noble Qur'an." He also had a copy of the Quran and the Bible.
None of those were hollowed out, were they?
Several sheets of paper in the backpack included rap lyrics that referred to police, narcotics, weapons and killing. Baines told officers he is a rapper who writes his own lyrics and that rap music writers need to "play the part," the report states.
Now he gets to play the part of a home-boy in prison ...
Officers performed a background check and found no record of crimes or active warrants.
He was charged with carrying a concealed weapon and booked into Orient Road Jail. At his first appearance in court Monday, Baines pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 30 days in jail, according to an employee with the Hillsborough County clerk of court. He remained in Orient Road Jail today.
The U.S. Attorney's Office also filed a federal charge of attempting to board an aircraft with a concealed dangerous weapon. The federal charge against Baines was filed Sunday but was not announced until today, said Steve Cole, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Tampa. Cole said Baines will be arrested by U.S. marshals upon his release from jail on the state charge.
#2
Good on the security personnel for detecting this. Hope they throw the book at this bastard. I don't think I'll ever get over being pissed off at having to empty my purse of nail scissors, nail files, needles, pockets knives, etc. (all the useful things we carry in case the need arises) before boarding a plane.
#5
When did box cutters become marijuana paraphernalia? Or for that matter where were the drugs and cash?
Posted by: ed ||
02/21/2008 8:04 Comments ||
Top||
#6
Yeah, a would-be rapper deliberately smuggling a *boxcutter* in a copy of "Fear, Itself" - probably the Moseley novel - onto a plane. The rest of his reading material is Islamic or Islamic-themed.
We're looking at a wannabe trying to built a career on a splashy and pseudo-violent arrest. Much safer than actually getting into a fight. He's probably gambling that a fake jihadi rapper will sell to the little assholes who love dangerous black men. Forty years ago it would have been black berets and aviator glasses; fifteen years ago it would have been colors and deliberately crude tattoos. I had been wondering when the henna'd beards and dog-ear'd Korans would make an appearance.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
02/21/2008 8:46 Comments ||
Top||
#7
"Muhammed in the Bible"?
Is it one of those gag books of blank pages?
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
02/21/2008 9:01 Comments ||
Top||
#8
if we can't take hollowed out books containing weapons on airplanes then the enemy has already won! right?? /snark off
#9
Baines told officers he is a rapper who writes his own lyrics and that rap music writers need to "play the part," the report states.
Yo, Benjamin, man. Nuthin increases "playin the part" then a 10 year bid in pound me in the ass federal prison. Think of the street cred that'll get ya...if rap is still around in 2019.
#10
Lock him up as if he intended to slice peoples throats with the box cutter. 2nd Degree murder at least plus any additional terrorism related charges that apply. That should put a stop to helpful journalists and civilians testing security.
#11
Not to advocate 'piling on,' but if the Feds were to swab the book for traces of THC, they might be able to pin a drug charge on this POS too.
As a former TSA guy, it is nice to see some positve press ( but there are still too many slugs running the checkpoints)
#15
I agree with Mitch that this was not a True Believer but a Fellow Traveller and Useless Idiot wishing to Speak Truth to Power the judge who will be sentencing his sorry butt to prison later this year.
Security forces have detained 69 suspected militants from various areas of Charbagh in the troubled Swat valley on Wednesday, officials said. The suspects were held in Cham, Hafizabad, Nakai Cheena and Sara Cheena areas and shifted to an undisclosed location for further investigations, they added. Curfew was in place from 6am till 12noon during the search operation. Sources said there was an unannounced curfew from 6am till 9am in Kabal tehsil. Curfew was relaxed from morning till evening in Mingora and several other areas, where all the offices, shops and business centres remained open throughout the day. Meanwhile, residents said two civilians were injured in gun sex aerial firing by security forces in Mingora. However, officials said they did not know about any such incident.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
So if you are suspected of "69" in Swat you go to jail? Miserable mullahs!
#2
YEAR 2008 > YEAR/TIME OF DECISION + DESTINY FOR BOTH THE BUDDING/NASCENT US-CENTRIC OWG-NWO, + RADICAL ISLAM.
IMO Sadr and prob OSAMA-ZAWI, etc. is waiting to see the prese trends as per the US GOP-DEM POTUS Candidates, i.e. IFF THERE WILL BE A DIVIDED = HEAVILY SECTARIAN NOVEMBER ELECTION OR NOT. DIVIDED US ELEX = POTEN DIVIDED POST-DUBYA ADMIN/NPE LEADERSHIP = POTEN WEAK US FOREIGN POLICIES vv WOT + ME???
DIVISIVE US ELEX + ISLAMIST "COUNTER-SURGE" > 2008-2010 - Radical Islam still has opportuns, despite US successes, to unilater defeat the US-Western Coalition in IRAQ-ME widout resort to any AMER HIROSHIMA. ANDOR WIDOUT ANY GREAT POWER CONFRONTATION = MUTUAL DESTRUCTION.
Recall WATERGATE chaos + pro-NORTH VIETNAM
"VIETNAMIZATION" > where NVA-VC forces were allowed to stay "in place" inside SOUTH VIETNAM, but still subject to attack by predomin SVN-only forces. DANGER FOR USA > iff Radical Islam is convinced its counter-surge cannot succeed + only hope tp salvage the ISLAMIST GLOBAL AGENDA is to induce Amer to invade Iran vv AMER HIROSHIMA + GREAT POWER CONFLICT/MUTUAL DESTRUCTION.
Also recall GORBACHEVISM > the [superior]US-WEST WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN = DEVOLUTED TO THE LEVEL OF THE [inferior]USSR-COMMIE BLOC, as opposed to raising the latter to the level of the former. THE STRONG MADE WEAK, SO THAT THE WEAK CAN BE MADE STRONG.
BAGHDAD - Three US soldiers were killed when a bomb struck their vehicle in north-west Baghdad while elsewhere eight Iraqi soldiers were killed while trying to detonate rockets, the US and Iraqi military said Wednesday.
Elsewhere eight Iraqi soldiers and police were killed and 42 people injured in Ubaydi, east of Baghdad, Tuesday evening when a lorry-load of rockets exploded while they were trying to detonate them, the Voices of Iraq VOI news agency.
The anti-explosive experts had already dismantled three rockets before the rest exploded, Iraqi security officials told VOI. The wounded were taken to hospitals in the Shiite-dominated Sadr City nearby.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
I suggested this tactic for our guys years ago - let the bad guys 'capture' a truck full of explosives, and then when they take it into their nest, set off the hidden detonator. Sad that the wrong side listened.
A suicide bomber detonated a suicide vest at a market in Muqdadiyah, Diyala province, Feb. 20. Six Iraqis were killed and 18 were wounded. The wounded included two Iraqi Policemen and a Sons of Iraq member. Several of the wounded were taken to Forward Operating Base Normandy and treated by Coalition doctors. Others were taken to Baqubah General Hospital. Spectacular attacks are the desperate attempt by terrorists to gain the ground they lost after Iron Harvest, said Maj. Peggy Kageleiry, spokeswoman for Multi-National Division - North. These attacks will continue to drive away the support al-Qaeda once enjoyed in eastern Diyala.
This article starring:
Peggy Kageleiry
Sons of Iraq
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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Multi-National Division Baghdad Soldiers captured a man suspected of being an Al Qaeda weapons trafficker during an operation in East Rashid Feb. 18. Soldiers of Company B, 2nd Battalion, 4th Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division, attached to Task Force Dragon, knocked on a suspected criminals door in Doura and arrested two alleged weapons traffickers, including one alleged to be AQIs Prince of Princes. The suspected arms trafficker is believed to have received the moniker for his ability to transport weapons to certain groups.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
MND-B Soldiers capture suspected 'Prince of Princes'
Rolf! "Prince" will get some Royal attention now by abu Bubba and the crew.
(KUNA) -- Iraqi Deputy Minister of Science and Technology Samir al-Attar and two of his bodyguards were wounded by a roadside bomb explosion near his two-vehicle convoy in Baghdad's eastern neighborhood of Zayouna, the police said. Meanwhile in eastern Baghdad, two people were injured during a roadside bomb explosion near the al-Shaab Stadium intersection, the police said. Violence persists in Baghdad despite the announcement of a steep drop of violence by U.S. and Iraqi officials as a result of a major security plan aimed at checking the insurgency and sectarian strife in the capital.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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Two undercover El Al guards were forced to intervene in a security incident on a flight to Bangkok, Channel 10 reported on Wednesday. According to the report, a Thai passenger started to go wild and approached the cockpit. The two guards restrained the man and handcuffed him for the remainder of the flight. The man was transferred to Thai police custody.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
he prolly ordered the kosher meal and they got it wrong.
Former army commander Chettha Thanajaro called on Tuesday for a carrot-and-stick approach to southern insurgents, who he said have developed into terrorists. A report showed violence has again escalated, and the death toll in five years is almost 3,000. He told parliament that the southern insurgents have become full-fledged terrorists, and urged that the Fourth Army be given full authority to handle the problem. The Fourth Army needs more forces to step up patrols in order to apply pressure on target areas, he said. The government must accept that the southern unrest has developed into terrorism. Once you're done convincing the government, you can start working on the press.
At the same time, he called on the government to guarantee pardons for those who had joined the terrorists separatists but were willing to return to the national side before they committed any serious crimes. That could bring many of the terrorists insurgents back into the national fold, he said.
On Tuesday, Army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda visited the Internal Security Operations Command Region 4's forward command in Pattani province, as well as the the Southern Border Provinces Administration Center in neighbouring Yala. He made no comment after his tour on whether he considered that the southern violence had turned into a terrorism conflict, but he ordered faster integration of agencies involved in the fight.
Meanwhile, a report from the Issara News Centre based in Songkhla province said that the number of deaths attributed to the insurgents stood at 2,941 since the separatist rebellion flared into violence again in January, 2004. That works out to an average of 72 deaths per month, but does not reflect the true, escalating nature of the southern violence, which currently has a higher death rate than any province in the Iraq war. In the first 15 days of February, 25 people were killed and 39 wounded in 43 violent incidents, the news agency reported.
Most of the killings in recent days have been drive-by shootings or assassination-type murders apparently aimed at intimidating people even tempted to support government forces. That was a main factor in Gen Chettha's decision to label the southern gangs as "terrorists." Most of the victims this year have been Muslims, and a majority of the nearly 3,000 killed since the jihad insurgency flared up again have been Muslims. As if there were anything unusual about that.
In Yala province today, shocked authorities ordered the Ban Sa-ae school in Krong Pinang sub-district closed for three days, after southern terrorists gang members on Tuesday exploded a bomb and fired their weapons near the facility, frightening the children. Also in Yala, a 35-year-old Muslim defence volunteer was seriously wounded in a drive-by shooting.
A village head and two villagers were severely injured when two terrorists insurgents opened fire at a wedding party in this southern border province Thursday. Police said two terrorists insurgents opened fire at the crowd when about 100 guests were having lunch at the wedding reception party in Tuango village in Tambon Si Banphot in Si Sakhon district at 11:30 am. Domeng Maseng, 56, the head of the village, and two other men - Satopama Useng, 46, and Yaning Khamlem, 30, were injured. Witnesses said four terrorists insurgents arrived on two motorcycles and the two pillion riders opened fire and the four fled the scene.
Most of the killings in recent days have been drive-by shootings or assassination-type murders apparently aimed at intimidating people even tempted to support government forces.
Terrorism
In Yala province today, shocked authorities ordered the Ban Sa-ae school in Krong Pinang sub-district closed for three days, after southern terrorists gang members on Tuesday exploded a bomb and fired their weapons near the facility, frightening the children.
Squad of Invading Infantry
Heavy fighting erupted in northern Sri Lanka on Wednesday as government troops tried to take Tamil rebel-held territory, the defence ministry said, reporting scores of guerrillas killed or wounded.
The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) launched a major attack against military positions in Mannar district and troops retaliated, the ministry said in a statement. The LTTE has suffered heavy casualties, with scores believed killed, the ministry said, adding that four government soldiers were wounded.
Soldiers killed: Within hours of the latest offensive, suspected Tiger rebels struck in the deep south, away from the usual conflict zone, killing three soldiers guarding a highway, a military spokesman said.
The attack took place at Buttala, 350 kilometres south of the mini-state run by the Tigers in the islands north. Three soldiers were killed in this LTTE attack, spokesman Udaya Nanayakkara said. Troops retaliated, but we are yet to get details of casualties among the terrorists. Military officials said heavy clashes continued during the day just outside the de facto rebel state, but gave no details. It was not clear how the military estimated rebel casualties in the latest surge in fighting. Dead bodies of enemy combatants are rarely recovered by either side. There was no immediate word from the rebels about the latest battles. The defence ministry said troops went on the offensive to capture Adampan village from the Tigers in coastal Mannar district. Troops continued to surge into LTTE territory towards Adampan junction in a fresh offensive launched at 6:00 am, the defence ministry said.
Rebel artillery fire was neutralised by security forces, the ministry said in a statement. It said 23 Tiger rebels were killed in separate clashes on Tuesday, while another 28 rebels and three government soldiers were killed on Monday. According to latest ministry figures, at least 1,358 rebels have been killed so far this year. The military estimates the rebel strength at 5,000 combatants. The military counts 80 soldiers and police killed over the same period.
Casualty figures provided by both sides differ wildly and cannot be independently verified. Journalists and human rights workers are barred from frontline and rebel-held areas. The Sri Lankan government last month officially pulled out of a truce with the rebels, who have fought for more than three decades for an independent ethnic homeland in the Sinhalese-majority island.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/21/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
if the kill rate is this high EVERYDAY then how do the LTTE even have a fighting force anymore?
Hey...who is this?
Dats fer us ta know and youse ta find out.
BEIRUT, Feb 21 (KUNA) -- The Kuwaiti Embassy received an anonymous threat on Thursday that two missiles would be launched at the building in Sanaya district, Beirut, according to an embassy official.
The official, requesting anonymity, told KUNA that a call was received by the embassy at 10:00 a.m. (local time), and the caller threatened to fire two missiles at the building. The building was evacuated and Lebanese security officials were notified, as well as authorities in Kuwait, the source concluded.
Kuwaitis advised not to travel to Lebanon at present political circumstances
KUWAIT, Feb 21 (KUNA) -- Given the present political circumstances Lebanon is passing through, the Kuwaiti foreign ministry on Thursday advised its citizens not to travel to Lebanon.
An authoritative source told KUNA in a statement that the ministry was keen on the safety of Kuwaitis and believes it is not advisable for nationals to travel to Lebanon at this time.
The source wished success for all efforts exerted to help the Lebanese overcome the present difficult situation and hoped Lebanon unity and lasting stability
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Watching TV ---- been flipping the stations.....
WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
THIRTY Taliban militants were killed in a joint Afghan and foreign special forces operation backed by air support in southern Helmand province. The five-hour coordinated attack on four targets also killed a Taliban commander, 
(KUNA) -- The Afghan government Wednesday said suspected Taliban militants have kidnapped two officials in the comparatively peaceful western zone of the war-battered country. The Interior Ministry, in a statement here, said the two employees of the education department were abducted at gunpoint in the western province of Farah, bordering the volatile Helmand province in the southern zone. The two people were kidnapped by a local militant leader Ibrahim on Monday. They were supervisors in the department in Farah province.
(Xinhua) -- Afghan forces backed by the U.S.-led Coalition forces have detained 11 suspected Taliban militants from Afghanistan's southern Zabul province, a statement of the Coalition released here Wednesday said. These suspects were detained on Feb. 19 from Dey Chopan district during an operation to disrupt Taliban leadership networks in the southern province, it said. The Coalition said all the detained individuals will be questioned on their involvement in Taliban operations as well as other illegal activities. 
Four Kuwaiti attorneys have filed a lawsuit against two Shiite MPs accusing them of being founders and members of 
Security forces have detained 69 suspected militants from various areas of Charbagh in the troubled Swat valley on Wednesday, officials said. The suspects were held in Cham, Hafizabad, Nakai Cheena and Sara Cheena areas and shifted to an undisclosed location for further investigations, they added. Curfew was in place from 6am till 12noon during the search operation. Sources said there was an unannounced curfew from 6am till 9am in Kabal tehsil. Curfew was relaxed from morning till evening in Mingora and several other areas, where all the offices, shops and business centres remained open throughout the day. Meanwhile, residents said two civilians were injured in 
BAGHDAD - Three US soldiers were killed when a bomb struck their vehicle in north-west Baghdad while elsewhere eight Iraqi soldiers were killed while trying to detonate rockets, the US and Iraqi military said Wednesday.
Heavy fighting erupted in northern Sri Lanka on Wednesday as government troops tried to take Tamil rebel-held territory, the defence ministry said, reporting scores of guerrillas killed or wounded.
