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Jamali resigns
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China-Japan-Koreas
Kim Jong Il Gives On-Site Guidance to Work to Develop Folk Food
EFL.Wow. They don’t even bother to call it something like Soylent Green...
Kim Jong Il, general secretary of the Workers’ Party of Korea and chairman of the National Defence Commission of the DPRK, provided on-the-spot guidance to the work to develop folk food.
The little one. Over there. He looks tasty. Deep fry him and bring him to me.
Going round the folk food exhibition sponsored by the Korean Dish Association, he learned in detail about the work in the catering field to carry forward and develop the folk food. On display at the exhibition were folk food contributed by Okryu Restaurant, Chongryu Restaurant and other units and kitchen utensils to prepare it and a variety of reference books.
"To Serve Man"?
After going round the exhibits, he highly appreciated the successes made by the producers of the exhibits, greatly pleased to learn that they have successfully prepared a variety of peculiar folk food by properly carrying forward and developing folk food heritage true to the WPK’s policy for thoroughly establishing the Juche character and national identity in all fabrics of social life.
How "peculiar" was that folk food, Kimmie?
He set forth important tasks which would serve as guidelines in preserving the excellent folk food tradition, noting that the creative wisdom, talent, flavor and taste of the resourceful and hard-working Korean people were fully reflected in the peculiar folk food which has been developed and enriched throughout the history.
Again, "peculiar"???
Noting that the civilized Korean people have long prepared diverse folk food to suit the national character and taste of Koreans, he added that its unique taste, flavor, feature and color have been known worldwide.
We won’t even mention the, you know, ...famine thing?
The consistent policy of the WPK in carrying forward and developing the national cultural heritage is to guard against both restorationism and nihilism by combining the principle of historicism and the principle of contemporary nature, he said, adding that the excellent cuisine culture created by the ancestors is efflorescing to be genuine culture of the working people in the era of the WPK as it has strictly abided by the principles in the past.
The enemies of the people are everywhere! Eat them!
Saying that it is very gratifying for the army and the society to actively encourage the folk food, he underscored the need for all domains to properly preserve the excellent folk food heritage.
Yeah, keep chowing on the folk food, peasants, so us guys in the army get more of the real stuff. Mmmmm, mmmmmm, good!
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/26/2004 5:17:24 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  (unrolls fortune cookie)

"That wasn't chicken."
Posted by: Raj || 06/26/2004 17:47 Comments || Top||

#2  That's not funny! That's sick!
Folk food and Juche indeed... wait a second....

domains to properly preserve the excellent folk food

Looks like a long winter maybe.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/26/2004 21:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Old Korean Train Juche:

Peoples Train #12 Food Server:
"What can I do for you Commrade?"

Peoples Traveling Assistant Minister of Propaganda:
"Oh just fetch me some folk food and a few kind words please Commrade Food Server."

Peoples Train #12 Food Server:
Serves with inate dignity folk food to Commrade Taveling Asssistant Minister of Propaganda.

Commrade Taveling Asssistant Minister of Propaganda:
"Thank you Commrade for the fine serving of folk food. How about the kind words?"

Peoples Train #12 Food Server:
"Don't eat the folk"

/Stormy applause! All stand! Huzzahs!



Posted by: Shipman || 06/26/2004 21:17 Comments || Top||

#4  I suppose he liked the broiled grass with dirt trimmings, with poison ivy leaves added for flavor?
Posted by: The Doctor || 06/26/2004 21:48 Comments || Top||

#5  All comunists/dictators/totalitarian strongmen start looking for the "roots" of their culture, including cuisine, when their little revolutions fail. Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela, cancelled a big contract with Monsanto 2 months ago in favor of exploiting our indigeneous sources to develop "folk" food.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 || 06/26/2004 23:00 Comments || Top||


Europe
Bush pleads for courtesy from Irish reporter
An Irish reporter threw courtesy aside and repeatedly interrupted President George W. Bush during a television interview at the White House. "Let me finish. Let me finish. May I finish?" Bush said early in his interview with Radio and Television Ireland Thursday, according to a transcript released Friday. "Let me finish. Let me finish, please. Please. You ask the questions and I’ll answer them, if you don’t mind," he said in a second interruption moments later. The two pleadings were followed by three more during an 11-minute exchange in advance of Bush’s trip to Ireland, where he was to attend a summit meeting of the European Union. In the interview with reporter Carole Coleman, Bush defended the invasion of Iraq and denied the contention that the world was more dangerous because of it. He also rejected the idea that bringing democracy to the Middle East -- a key aim of the United States in Iraq -- should not await resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/26/2004 3:15:27 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is typical of the Euorpean version of opinions deguised as journalism - even more biased and blatant than in US. I really have no sympathy any longer for Europe and just look in expectation to what they sow they will reap/weep. We have done all the right things to keep us safe(r)including engaging the jihadis in Iraq and not Iowa. But the Euros defense is to think that if they knock America they will be living by the old axiom "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Unfortunately, Madrid was a hor d'ouvre, and Paris or Belin or even Dublin could be the entree. But that will only give them a bigger reason to blame Bush.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 06/26/2004 12:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Methinks Carole won't be getting a second date...
Posted by: PBMcL || 06/26/2004 13:28 Comments || Top||

#3  Carole should be declared an unlawful combatant
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Must have been a morning interview, because everyone in Ireland are passed out drunk by noon.
Posted by: Chris W. || 06/26/2004 13:55 Comments || Top||

#5  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Bootlicker TROLL || 06/27/2004 1:50 Comments || Top||

#6  How dare she question our Great Leader! I watched the interview and she almost made him think once or twice. It was cute. He had to be very stern when he told her that the world was safer now because he said so.
Posted by: Bootlicker || 06/27/2004 1:50 Comments || Top||


Analysis: Which Direction For The Balkans?
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 12:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Regardless of which direction the Balkans should go, what needs to happen is for all U.S. forces to be pulled out and the whole enchilada left to Europe to decide what is to be done. This is their backyard, and they need to take care of it.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 06/26/2004 1:42 Comments || Top||

#2  I'm sure the Dutch are eager to jump in.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/26/2004 1:58 Comments || Top||

#3  Isn't the direction determined by the corialis effect? I think the Balkans should go clockwise on it way down after you flush. Maybe that's the Southern Hemisphere though.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/26/2004 2:51 Comments || Top||

#4  I just went to the bathroom (in the southern hemisphere) and the water went down anticlockwise.
Posted by: phil_b || 06/26/2004 8:13 Comments || Top||

#5  Yeap,we did our part it is way past time for Euorpe to step-up to the plate.
Posted by: Raptor || 06/26/2004 11:07 Comments || Top||

#6  No we are not, getting screwed by the U.N. once is more than enough.
Posted by: Cardinal Fang (Evert V. in NL) || 06/26/2004 11:07 Comments || Top||

#7  not with our troops susceptible to ICC/UN charges of war crimes, sorry, asshats, you had your fun, now do your work
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 11:23 Comments || Top||

#8  Which direction? Straight downhill, I should think.

Into a hell of Europe's own making.

And our people should be OUT OF THERE before it goes any further.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/26/2004 16:22 Comments || Top||

#9  The former Yugoslavia & other Balkan states are on the jihadees list of 'lands to be retaken' or 'forced to submit'.

As in the historical Muslim drives to push northward, by and large they failed, and shall continue to FAIL. (Except in France which surrendered already, keeping with another historic track record.)
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 23:25 Comments || Top||

#10  I'm sure the Dutch are eager to jump in.

No, they're still trying to extricate themselves from the war crimes charges brought against them in the ICJ.

Oops! I keep forgetting, that only applies to Israelis on whose watch tribal slaughter occurs.
Posted by: lex || 09/15/2004 17:32 Comments || Top||

#11  The Balkans are not worth the bones of a Pomeranian Grenadier.

Otto Bismark
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 09/15/2004 17:47 Comments || Top||

#12  6/26/04 post?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/15/2004 17:53 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Kerry wants Bush apology for ’Hitler ad’
But footage came from MoveOn.org piece blasting president
By Art Moore © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
You know you’ll like it... like dropping blood in waters infested by sharks
Sen. John Kerry’s presidential campaign is calling on President Bush to apologize for using images of Adolf Hitler in an Internet ad on the Bush-Cheney 2004 website. The images, however, originally came from a TV ad posted online by a Democrat party ally, MoveOn.org, which likened President Bush to the Nazi dictator, points out Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt. Schmidt told WorldNetDaily he considers the call for an apology the "single most deceitful and deceptive release put out by the Kerry campaign."
That's saying a mouthful...
As WND reported, MoveOn.org, a left-leaning "Section 527" soft-money organization, posted two Bush-Hitler spots on its site as part of its "Bush in 30 Seconds" television ad contest. One of the ads featured images of the German tyrant with the words, "What were war crimes in 1945 is foreign policy in 2003." The final two frames include Hitler with his hand raised and then a shot of Bush with his hand up taking the oath of office. Nevertheless, the Kerry campaign called on Bush to apologize for folding brief excerpts from the MoveOn.org pieces into an ad of its own that begins with the title: "The Many Faces of the John Kerry Campaign. The Coalition of the Wild-eyed." The Bush ad then presents footage of former Vice President Al Gore raging against the president in a speech, followed by the first of two sections of footage from the MoveOn.org ads. Also included are clips of angry Bush opponents Gov. Howard Dean, Rep. Richard Gephardt, D-Mo., filmmaker Michael Moore and Kerry himself. The spot concludes with: "This is not a time for pessimism and rage... It’s a time for optimism, steady leadership and progress."
That's prob'ly what's causing them to foam at the mouth...
Kerry campaign spokesman Phil Singer said in a statement issued yesterday, "The fact that George Bush thinks its appropriate to use images of Adolf Hitler in his campaign raises serious questions about his fitness to spend another four years in the White House."
Does it raise any questions about MoveOn.org?
"Adolf Hitler slaughtered millions of innocent people and has no place in a campaign that is supposed to be about the future and hope of this nation," Singer said.
Publicans would heartily agree.
"The President’s use of these images during a month that evoked the memory of World War II is remarkably insensitive to the sacrifices of the millions of people who lost their lives during Hitlers reign of terror."
Yasss... Life is good here on Arcturus XLI...
Singer said the Bush campaign, "should immediately remove these hateful images from its website and apologize for using them. The use of Adolf Hitler by any campaign, politician or party is simply wrong." Asked by WorldNetDaily to explain why using images from an ad that originated with a Democrat ally is inappropriate, Singer argued MoveOn.org is not affiliated with the Kerry campaign.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
He added that the group – founded by a California millionaire in 1998 to defend President Clinton from impeachment – has repudiated the two ads, as well, making it "unfair to associate those images" with Kerry.
"It's just not fair!"
The Bush campaign’s Schmidt disagrees. "All of the images used in the [Bush campaign] video contain attacks on the president that have been aired by John Kerry and his campaign surrogates, including two that MoveOn.org ran," he told WND. "They are disparaging, and we made the determination that voters should see the disgusting attacks that are made every day." He asserted the Hitler references are "part and parcel of the coalition that has formed to elect John Kerry," noting that Gore made the same attacks in a speech Thursday, comparing Bush to Stalin as well as Hitler. "The effort is filled with hate speech and unsubstantiated attacks that are never repudiated by the Kerry campaign."

He insisted the Kerry campaign is closely tied to MoveOn.org, to the point where the non-profit group announced Kerry’s economic policy before he did. Zack Exley, who served as director of special projects for MoveOn’s political action committee, became the Kerry campaign’s director of online communications and organization this spring, Schmidt points out. The sudden move came at a time when the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission, charging MoveOn.org and other Democratic allies violated campaign-finance law by running $17 million worth of attack ads against Bush. Schmidt also says MoveOn.org’s biggest contributor, billionaire financier George Soros, has compared Bush to Hitler. In an interview with the Washington Post, Soros said he believed the White House was guided by a "supremacist ideology."

"America, under Bush, is a danger to the world," he said. "... When I hear Bush say, ’You’re either with us or against us,’ it reminds me of the Germans. ... My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me." In January, Soros told an audience at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace no less than the future of the planet hinges on the results of the presidential election. WND reported Soros seeks to raise up to $75 million and has pledged more than $15 million of his own money to prevent Bush from staying in the White House. Although MoveOn.org issued an apology for the Bush-Hitler ads, one week later it staged an event to announce contest winners in which participants stayed on the Nazi theme. Comedian Margaret Cho said, in part:
"Despite all of this stupid bull---- that the Republican National Committee, or whatever the f--- they call them, that they were saying that they’re all angry about how two of these ads were comparing Bush to Hitler? I mean, out of thousands of submissions, they find two. They’re like f---ing looking for Hitler in a haystack. You know? I mean, George Bush is not Hitler. He would be if he f---ing applied himself. (big, extended applause) I mean he just isn’t."
Posted by: Anonymous5089 || 06/26/2004 6:18:49 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Margaret Cho -- proof that a fat Korean chick just ain't funny.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 06/26/2004 20:04 Comments || Top||

#2  I just saw this ad--Wow.
It makes the Left look like the rapid dogs they are.
(Too funny that sKerry wants Bush to say he's sorry for using the stuff the Demonrats used!)
The DNC should know they're so over when their spokesman is cult lezbo "comedian" Margaret Cho, too.
Posted by: Jen || 06/26/2004 20:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Maybe we can send her to Pyongyang for some "folk" food.
Posted by: ed || 06/26/2004 20:37 Comments || Top||

#4  she's a Bay Area Product™. Except for Joe Montana, Grateful Dead, and Dirty Harry (2 of the 3 are fictitious names) = they've got a bad track record in my book
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 20:55 Comments || Top||

#5  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Bootlicker TROLL || 06/27/2004 1:57 Comments || Top||

#6  Does anyone here know how the Hitler video was put on Moveon.org? Anyone could post an ad for their Bush in 30 Seconds contest. Someone posted the Hitler ad and it was taken off by Moveon quickly.

It's like me saying "Bush is Stalin" here and outsiders claiming that rantburg said "Bush is Stalin."

Sorry to confuse you all. Check it ou.
Posted by: Bootlicker || 06/27/2004 1:57 Comments || Top||


Rabbis for illegal aliens
Courtesy of the Lone Wacko:

in Tarzana a group of five rabbis from the Valley and one from Hollywood said they support giving licenses to illegal immigrants, but object to the governor’s suggestion that such licenses have a mark which identifies the person as an illegal.

"It is inappropriate at best and deeply upsetting at worst," said Rabbi Dan Moscovitz of Temple Judea in Tarzana, reading a letter the rabbis sent to the governor last week.

"It will be used by some persons to treat the undocumented with scorn and ethnic discrimination."

Signers of the letter included Moscovitz, Rabbis Karen Bender and Donald Goor of Temple Judea, Rabbi Steven B. Jacobs of Temple Kol Tikvah in Woodland Hills, Rabbi Jim Kaufman of Temple Beth Hillel in Valley Village and Rabbi John Rosove of Temple Israel of Hollywood.

Moscovitz cited the Jewish experience in being singled out during the Holocaust and said that, had this bill been proposed 40 years ago, Jews would have become targets of such discrimination.

Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the governor is not committed to the idea of the identifying mark, but has looked at it as a possibility.

Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/26/2004 6:00:45 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It will be used by some persons to treat the undocumented with scorn and ethnic discrimination.

... Jewish experiences 60 years ago aside, there's a REASON for that ... and it's not as if only Hispanics are illegal ... okay, okay, so there's a special exception for Cubans with change-ups and fastballs ...
Posted by: Edward Yee || 06/26/2004 19:43 Comments || Top||

#2  John and Ken on KFI-AM have been all over this and their pleas to listeners generated 10,000+ emails to the Border Patrol re: for the sweeps for illegals
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 19:59 Comments || Top||

#3  Might I suggest there is a difference between forcing people to wear a yellow star on the outside of their clothes and an indication on their licenses that they're not in the country legally? How often do you see someone's license? Is it really a VISIBLE mark?

Eh, in any case, the solution is to send the illegals home, not make them more at home here.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 06/26/2004 20:20 Comments || Top||


Cheney Owns Up to Profanity Incident and Says He ’Felt Better Afterwards’
Vice President Dick Cheney, long portrayed by his aides as unperturbed by partisan attacks, admitted Friday that he "probably" cursed at a senior Democratic senator this week, said he did not regret it and added that he "felt better afterwards." Then Mr. Cheney quickly reverted to type, flying here for a tightly scripted campaign rally where he never mentioned the incident in a speech on terrorism and the economy to an adoring Republican crowd. The revelation, if that is what it was, that Mr. Cheney is comfortable with the use of four-letter words and is willing to direct them at political opponents, was the latest in a string of developments over the past few weeks that have put the vice president squarely in the spotlight. And as he takes on a higher political profile, it is hard to tell who is happier, Republicans or Democrats.

At the rally here, Mr. Cheney was immediately forgiven by some members of the invited crowd for swearing at Senator Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont on the Senate floor on Tuesday. It showed him, they said, to be a real person who is forceful in the face of unwarranted criticism. "It tells me Cheney is very human," said Dennis Lumphrey, a hospital worker from Moville, Iowa, who was in the crowd. "It also tells me he’s not going to get pushed around. He’ll fight back. A lot of people around the world want to tell America what to do. We need to have our own direction and priorities."

President Bush’s political aides said they anticipated no negative aftereffects. In fact, the White House announced that Mr. Cheney’s campaign schedule would only intensify. Next weekend, he will take a bus tour through Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. And senior Republicans said he had proved himself a voice of wisdom and reassurance to voters on the two big topics of the race, the economy and the fight against terrorism. "He’s a tremendous asset to the Republican party," said Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee. "The rank-and-file Republican voters out there just love Dick Cheney. They appreciate his loyalty to the president, and they appreciate that he feels solid."

But Mr. Cheney has been drawing even more partisan fire than usual over the last few weeks. His aggressive defense of the administration’s assertions that Iraq was working with Al Qaeda intensified the long-running partisan and ideological clash over whether he helped lead the nation to war under false pretenses. He won a short-term legal victory when the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that a lower court had acted "prematurely" when it rejected his request to block disclosure of records from his energy policy task force. But the ruling brought the issue to the fore again, allowing Democrats to renew their attacks that he has sought to work behind closed doors to further the interests of energy companies. Now more than ever, his opponents call Mr. Cheney among the most polarizing figures in politics. Democrats portray him as the power behind the throne and the personification of militarism, corporate corruption and government secrecy. "We’ve got to get the White House back from a man who has abused his power as the leader of the free world," the comedian Billy Crystal told the crowd at a Democratic fund-raiser in Los Angeles on Thursday night. "Dick Cheney has got to go."

Mr. Bush’s Democratic rival, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, regularly repeats Mr. Cheney’s name in much the same way Republicans have long used that of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton- as a symbol of all that is wrong with the policies and personalities of the opposing party. "Cheney’s definitely turned into a big, fat albatross around the president’s neck," said Jim Jordan, Mr. Kerry’s former campaign manager. "His public image is very bad and getting worse," Mr. Jordan said. Mr. Cheney’s aides and supporters said one of his great strengths as a campaigner was his ability to remain stoic about the way he is portrayed by Democrats and immune from the pressures of responding to the ups and downs of daily news cycles. But the exchange with Mr. Leahy on Tuesday suggested that Democrats manage to get under Mr. Cheney’s skin.
Posted by: Lou || 06/26/2004 10:24:49 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We’ve got to get the White House back from a man who has abused his power as the leader of the free world," the comedian Billy Crystal told the crowd at a Democratic fund-raiser in Los Angeles on Thursday night. "Dick Cheney has got to go."

Ah. The intellectual foundation of the Democrat party -- fourth-rate comedians.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 06/26/2004 11:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Ahhhh the NYTimes echo chamber....Cheney comes out of this looking good to me, and Leahy's still a bag o' shit
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 11:50 Comments || Top||

#3  This is another "Dukakis" moment for the democrats and left. Every time they have a chance to demonstrate that they are "real" men (i.e. the question of someone raping your wife or raspberry repartee)they molt into character. In this case, Leahy, a vicious little worm masqurading as a gentlman, is using the NYT to fight his battle with Cheney instead of going chin to chin like Dick did or anyone with balls with do.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 06/26/2004 12:37 Comments || Top||

#4  Probably did Cheney more good than his last angioplasty.
Posted by: ed || 06/26/2004 13:43 Comments || Top||

#5  Lynne Cheney: "Ohhh, DICK! You're like a tiger tonight!"
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:56 Comments || Top||

#6  Hey Billy Crystal: Go fuck yourself!
Posted by: Chris W. || 06/26/2004 14:35 Comments || Top||

#7  It doesn't surprise me that Vice-president Cheney's use of the word Fuck has gotten way more press review than Mr. Kerry's giving the finger to a Vietnam veteran. Does anyone think that will come back up now that the Demoncrats have some ammo against the Vice-president? The only news channel I saw anything at all about Mr' Kerry's action was on Fox.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 06/26/2004 14:54 Comments || Top||

#8  Amazingly, Deacon Blues, no one has; I thought the media would have pounced by now ...

1856, BABY!

P.S. This does not endorse the actions in the actual incident, only the assumption of physical violence by one senator upon another.
Posted by: Edward Yee || 06/26/2004 19:49 Comments || Top||

#9  FUCK leahy, FUCK kerry, FUCK the whole goddamn queer democratic party. If you like murderin' babies and sucking dicks, the democratic party is the place for you.
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 06/26/2004 21:27 Comments || Top||

#10  hmmmm Pete - you seriously oughtta look at cutting the dosage, k?
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 21:36 Comments || Top||

#11  I think the Dems are gang green with envy. In this and so many situations, their compaints and their protest are trying to run cover for abject jealousy. They are the kind that wear their foul mouths and their filthy minds, as clintons put it, "as a badge of honor". Only the Liberals, the Socialsists, the Democrat Party could combine Puritanism with Narcisissm. Only them
Posted by: Annie War || 06/26/2004 21:58 Comments || Top||

#12  It took years, but at last someone has told Patrick 'liberal' Leahy where to go :)


Bravo!
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 22:18 Comments || Top||

#13  Leahy says he was shocked, shocked to hear such language on the Senate floor, which proves he's a bigger fuckin' idiot then even Chaney thought.
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/26/2004 22:27 Comments || Top||


U.S.Readies for the Draft
Not going to happen.
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 01:50 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...I was going to read the article, but as soon as I saw NewsMax, I stopped it and closed the window.
They're about as reliable as Al-J...

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 06/26/2004 3:26 Comments || Top||

#2  If North Korea doesn't back down; and their yellow 'buddies' help flex that muscle; not to worry, the US will have no shortage in national defenders it will 'find'! I saw a 'simblance' of this during the holding of our surveillance plane crew, a few years ago. Just about everyone I knew (except for walmart people) where ready to throw out and burn every piece of chinese good they had!
Posted by: smn || 06/26/2004 3:31 Comments || Top||

#3  People would be willing to fight a real war to defend their country. But this Johnny Appleseed PC crap of sowing the seeds of democracy in hellholes where Muslims hate us is another story. When George Bush and John Kerry send the twins and Alexa to the front lines of those paece loving Muslims in Baghdad or Fallujah, then there might be a change of heart. Until then, this is like feeding our young boys to the lions. I am peeved with the way everything is turning out and all we hear these days is about GWB apologizing for panties on the head and caving to the UN over war crimes International court against our GI's and more $ for fighting AIDS in Vietnam where they spit at us and about US Muslims and the ACLU wringing their hands worrying about anti-beheading backlash. NO draft unless the Bush twins and Alexa Kerry are in Fallujah chumming with the religion of peace. End of story.
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 3:48 Comments || Top||

#4  From the article: If, however, another front appears on the nation’s already extended battle lines – N. Korea or Iran, for instance – all bets may be off. And the preparations underway today could mean that a draft could be up and running in just a matter of months. Col. Ray already sees the writing on the wall, referring to the writings of former NATO Supreme Commander Gen. Wesley Clark, who has suggested that there was and may be yet afoot a rather ambitious, albeit clandestine, agenda for American arms, mentioning war scenarios for Iran, North Korea and even ostensible ally Saudi Arabia. Ray wrinkles his brow and rubs his forehead, mulling over what he sees as a dogging question: “Why have we kept the numbers of troops artificially low? We’re half the combat strength we had in 1991, yet we are manning 735 bases around the world. Ray doesn’t suggest to NewsMax that he has the answer to the conundrum. Yet he sees the draft as perhaps an inevitable consequence of our war on terror.

I think he's wrong. There's nothing we can't do through expanding the size of the volunteer force that we need to do with a draft. While I don't have a problem with the draft*, I don't see anything particularly desirable about this kind of initiative. Maybe if it were accompanied by routine 3-month stint of basic training for every able-bodied American male and female at age 18.

* This ensures that hatriots will have to serve alongside patriots, i.e. it's not only the good - patriots - that will die young
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/26/2004 3:52 Comments || Top||

#5  We do not need a draft because we do not need to man 735 bases around the world. What does being the world's policeman have to do with patriotism? Instead of 18 year old males[females will be kept out of combat of course], why don't we send 50 year old males? They are reaching the end of their lives, they are less productive members of society, and they will soon be a drain on our health system. Actually 18 year olds represent our future. They should stay home. Are you still interested in the draft, #4, if 50 year olds are sent instead?
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 4:03 Comments || Top||

#6  WHY THE HELL DOES THIS KEEP COMING UP?

A draft? NOBODY is asking for it except Demo Congresscritters and other pot-stirrers who want to try to use it as a club to beat the pro-liberty people with, and as a bludgeon with which they can destroy the military from within.

1) The only reason we do not have a larger military today is that WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR IT! Congress and the previous president CUT headcounts in all the services by as much as half, and over 2/3 in some specialty areas. Authorize it, fund it and we will have enough troops. Remember the last gulf war? We had as many people on the ground just in theater as we do in the ENTIRE US Army now.

2) Draftees are USELESS in the type of military we have now. Draftees are needed for mass armies. We are no longer a mass army, we are an army of manuever. The typical 2 year hitch is not enough to even get a good infantryman up to speed, much less have him combat effective, unless you cut his training and throw him into combat, where the survivors will learn quickly, but the casualty rates will be much higher.

3) The Army is better educated than the general US populcae. A draft woul LOWER the quiality of solider we woudl be able to field. Plus, all current serving memebers are VOLUNTEERS - the influx of draftees woudl put lackluster people out there that are below current standards, who are not motivated, and who do not want to be there.



1. 2. 3.

Its that damned simple.

A draft is NOT needed -and it would only serve to RUIN the professional military we have now.
Posted by: OldSpook || 06/26/2004 4:25 Comments || Top||

#7  rex: Instead of 18 year old males[females will be kept out of combat of course], why don't we send 50 year old males? They are reaching the end of their lives, they are less productive members of society, and they will soon be a drain on our health system. Actually 18 year olds represent our future. They should stay home.

18-year-olds are drafted for a reason - because they can stand up better to the stress of combat - physically and psychologically, as documented by copious studies from WWII. If the objective is to get people who will help win the nation's wars, there is no way 50-year-olds are going to be drafted in place of 18-year-olds.

And it's a mistake to say that 50-year-olds are less productive than 18-year-olds - the exact opposite is true. In terms of maturity, dedication, experience and knowledge, 50-year-olds beat 18-year-olds hands down. This, by the way, is why 18-year-olds are generally paid less than 50-year-olds.

rex: Are you still interested in the draft, #4, if 50 year olds are sent instead?

No - because this would guarantee that we lose many more casualties and potentially wars as well. War is a young man's occupation. (Also, there is no reason to subject Vietnam-era men to yet another draft - they've taken their chances with the Selective Service).
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/26/2004 5:21 Comments || Top||

#8  Fifty year old men didn't all take their chances with the Selective Service. In fact, many of them evaded the draft, and some of them are in the defense department. I don't think Paul Wolfowitz fought in Vietnam did he and yet he is the chief architect of the Iraq War. War is not a young man's sport. Death does not descriminate against age. I think 50 year olds like Paul Wolfowitz would do great in a war, because he chose war, didn't he? He must like it.

We are facing a declining birth rate. This impacts on our nation's future. Young men will be needed to mate and re-produce our future. Fifty year old men are too old to raise young families and they certainly will not be attractive to young fertile females. I think 50 year old men, who have evaded the Vietnam War draft, are imminently more suitable to go to Iraq than the baby making young men in high school and college. We need them home in America.
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 5:35 Comments || Top||

#9  rex: Fifty year old men didn't all take their chances with the Selective Service. In fact, many of them evaded the draft, and some of them are in the defense department.

So? And some who did not serve are *not* in the Defense Department. I think you're presuming that conservatives are somehow obligated to take the place of liberals in fighting the nation's wars. Not so. National security is every American's responsibility. When drafted by Uncle Sam, both liberals and conservatives must serve. But conservatives have no special duty to serve in the military, any more than liberals have any special duty to pay extra taxes for the social programs they are always foisting upon conservative taxpayers.

rex: I don't think Paul Wolfowitz fought in Vietnam did he and yet he is the chief architect of the Iraq War. War is not a young man's sport. Death does not descriminate against age.

War is a young man's game because victory does discriminate against age.

rex: I think 50 year olds like Paul Wolfowitz would do great in a war, because he chose war, didn't he? He must like it.

What was that stream of consciousness all about? Wolfowitz was appointed by GWB, who made the decision to go to war. If you want to blame someone, go to the source. No need to pussyfoot (or should I say moby) around.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/26/2004 6:12 Comments || Top||

#10  Rx: I'm 52 and I already did my stint. I would really hate to be in combat beside a draftee who isn't motivated by anything except to serve his time and get out. He would be unreliable in a fight and I'd just as soon be in a foxhole alone.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 06/26/2004 8:08 Comments || Top||

#11  Zhang Fei, I think you're right - rex is doing a moby here.

Old Spook is right - the LAST think today's military wants is a draft. Our forces are high tech, mobile and use sophisticated tactics. Fitting huge numbers of unwilling people into that way of fighting would be a recipe for disaster -- the training requirements alone would suck up so much of our existing experienced cadre as to REDUCE our operational capability a lot.

Those who say we don't have enough forces are right, in a way, but not in the way they mean. The suggestion that we need to DRAFT people is in large part a political game being played against the Bush administration.

It also reflects the fact that we've had our military on a near-starvation diet and that needs to change. The question is, change in what way?

There is a lot of force augmentation we can do and are doing with technology, and more we could do by being willing to pay for a larger volunteer army.

Technology doesn't remove the need for boots on the ground, as my colleagues in green uniforms regularly remind me. But it can remove the need to use people for a lot of monitoring tasks and in some cases for defense and attack as well.

Examples: UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) now beginning to monitor the border with Mexico, as well as UAVs used for recon and surveillance in Iraq and Afghanistan. The initial use of this equipment has validated their effectiveness and helped develop doctrine for their use. We now have UCAVs (armed UAVs) being deployed ... first the ad-hoc creationof UCAVs via arming Predators, and more recently, successful tests of models that were designed from the frame up for that purpose.

In a world where the operator of UAVs and UCAVs is sitting a ways away from the battlefield, but must both know military doctrine and tactics well and also exercise quick and knowledgeable judgement, it is quite likely a mid-career person sitting at those commands. The operators of UGVs (unmanned ground vehicles, such as the robots that did recon in Afghan caves) typically need to be closer to the action, but again, the use of the equipment is a force multiplier. Instead of sending in a squad of men, we use a piece of equipment and 1 soldier as operator.

Within 5 years we will have UAVs and UGVs with sufficiently sophisticated software that they will be able to operate without a direct human operator, if desired.

Rex, if you're not mobying, then I can only assume that your position comes out of ignorance of these facts.

Finally, like Deacon Blues I'm 52. Women were not allowed to serve except in very limited capacities when I was a college grad - I did do the Army's college junior program, but was discouraged from trying for a commission on the grounds that I would be bored and frustrated with the opportunities then available.

I did marry a man, now 50, who was a career USAF officer. We both now teach at West Point.

Some of us 50 yr olds not only did serve, we continue to do so in other ways.
Posted by: rkb || 06/26/2004 8:25 Comments || Top||

#12  One last point.

We both now teach at West Point.

And do so at rather lower salaries than we have earned and could earn elsewhere.

That is not a complaint - it is a choice we freely and gladly made.
Posted by: rkb || 06/26/2004 8:30 Comments || Top||

#13  I am not Fifty and already did 20 years in the Armed Services. OS has is right! We do not need or want a consript Army. It we closed some bases and redeploy some units there would be no manpower shortage. If they want to add 20k fine but lets fill it with people who want to be there.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 06/26/2004 9:44 Comments || Top||

#14  That 20,000+ troops slot isn't for draftees, is it? If it's "more slots for volunteers", all good. And at last check, I thought that the brass were stringently anti-draft ...

P.S. I consider WND and NewsMax to be the right-wing version of Jihad Unspun and al-Jazeera.
Posted by: Edward Yee || 06/26/2004 10:22 Comments || Top||

#15  I think the Administration would be open to serious criticism if they didn't have contingency plans for all sorts of occurances.

If, for instance, we found ourselves under sustained terror attack or an intended insurgency at home and the 1st and 5th Armies were called out onto the streets for defense, perhaps a draft would be needed. [Not a scenario I've heard any military people discuss, just a random brainstormed possibility.] Or a huge natural disaster, here or in a neighboring country, that would lead to potential major instability and refugee flows. For situations like this, more bodies might well be needed and the training aspect would be less critical than simply the number of boots on the ground.

Plans should be in place for all sorts of things, on the very unlikely chance that they would be needed.

That's not the same thing as saying the Administration intends a draft.

BTW, back to rex's rhetoric. I'm curious, rex -- how have you served?
Posted by: rkb || 06/26/2004 10:31 Comments || Top||

#16  We do not need a draft because we do not need to man 735 bases around the world. What does being the world's policeman have to do with patriotism? Instead of 18 year old males[females will be kept out of combat of course], why don't we send 50 year old males? They are reaching the end of their lives, they are less productive members of society, and they will soon be a drain on our health system. Actually 18 year olds represent our future. They should stay home. Are you still interested in the draft, #4, if 50 year olds are sent instead?

Sign me up baby!! Where the f*ck is my rifle??
Posted by: badanov || 06/26/2004 10:50 Comments || Top||

#17  Badanov -

Actually, your rifle is right here:

http://www.odcmp.com/

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 06/26/2004 11:48 Comments || Top||

#18  rex has a hardon against Wolfowitz and facts aren't going to change any of it. Draft is Charlie Rangel's trial balloon to try and kill the military, not save it. Our Dem politicians (and Moby fan Rex) would rather have power than a secure nation and successful foreign policy
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 11:56 Comments || Top||

#19  This draft nonsense is the last hurrah of babyboomers trying to recall the "glory days" of their youth. They are upset because it is very difficult to develop any kind of protest against a small all-volunteer, exquisitely professional, high-tech military. Most of these fools were the poly sci and ethnic studies majors and can't understand anything more technical than how to operate a TV remote. They want to take the military back to 1969 so they can all start to protest against something they think they understand. A few of the smarter, more pernicious ones want to weaken the military by making it spend its money on useless draftees.

As Old Spook says, the military has no use for draftees. Draftees were only called for two years. Not enough time to be trained to be anything but cannon fodder on a modern battlefield. It is our policy to kill the enemy's cannon fodder, not try to match it with our own. It gets down to dollars. In an era of constraints, the military would rather spend the money on better weapons than on draftees (cannon fodder).
Posted by: RWV || 06/26/2004 13:30 Comments || Top||

#20  RWV - re: your comment on another thread - I bet my neighborhood (Santee) can kick yours ;-)

Lotsa Marines here (from Miramar)
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:34 Comments || Top||

#21  The only draft going on right now is the NHL draft, and based on the ratings nobody in America cares.
Posted by: Chris W. || 06/26/2004 13:56 Comments || Top||

#22  I do not have a "hard one" against Wolfowitz. I think he is an incompetent, like George Tenet, and should be fired. He looked at the war in Iraq through the eyes of an academic, and relied on second hand information about the situation in Iraq from ex-pat sources like Chalabi. When Chalabi was disgraced and forced to walk away, so should Wolfowitz have met the same fate.

Wolfowitz has given the war effort in Iraq no direction. Since Tommy Franks retired[whom I admired greatly btw and Tommy Franks is a Jew as well in case I am accused of being anti-Semetic as is the typical response to any criticism of Mr. God Wolfowitz], the direction in Iraq has been rudderless, reactive rather than strategic and more so day by day. Quite frankly I resent that an academic like Wolfowitz who has no experience with fighting in a war ever should be putting our young men in harm's way based on "theoretical ideas of how things should have been" instead of how they are. I further resent that Wolfowitz should be left in a position to implement the draft and to put even more young men in harm's way because he has no courage himself to take full responsibility for his poor performance.

Wolfowitz offers the general public nothing but shrugging of his shoulders whenever he is cross-examined by elected politicians. I do not believe that Wolfowitz should be protected from criticism about his incompetence and his obvious failings because he is Jewish. His religion did not get him his job in the defense department; his promise of results did. Therefore, sinse his job performance has been sub par, his religion should have no bearing in letting him keep his job.

Some of you want to know if I have fought in a war, no I haven't, but I have tremendous admiration for those who have served and continue to serve. And as a side note, I would never apply for a job in the Defense Department to be Rummy's assistant BECAUSE of the fact I have never served in the military, whereas Wolfowitz did not think that kind of experience was necessary. He was a professor for gosh sakes. What does he know about warriors and war?

As for why I do not want the draft, I come from a large family and I have nephews who would be eligible and I am a parent myself and consequently I would hate to see any of them dragged into a draft and into a war that is steadily turning into an open-ended mess because some people at the top have no clue about how to get out of the mess, because the ending is not written in an academic textbook.

I am aware that Rumsfeld has gone on record a number of times that he does not want the draft. I recognize that a draft would not be good for the morale of the volunteer enlisted troops. In fact, a draft might be hazardous to volunteer troops' health because of the incompetence introduced by a draft. You do not have to convince me that a draft is unwise. Duh.

But yesterday, against Rumsfeld's wishes, Congress [both parties] voted more money to recruit 20,000-39,000 new positions in the course of 3 years. Where do you think Rummey is going to get that many volunteers to fill the positions that Congress[both parties] are forcing him to fill? Any ideas?

I would suggest that even with increased pay for military jobs, the pay still stinks in comparison to safe stateside jobs. And at a time of war, there are not going to be 30,000 young people signing up to fill poorly paid wartime jobs. You are dreaming if you think otherwise.

And I am not a MOBY, whatever that means, but I am very concerned about the increased violence, the increased anti-American sentiments in Iraq, and quite frankly the muddled shrugging of shoulders that's associated with the Defense Dept, which is now resembling the muddled thinkers at State Dept.

And as a side note, another thing that bugs me to no end is that the Selective Service is naming women to fill the draft boards to the tune of 50-50 percent. Why should women, who are not allowed to serve in combat anyways, have any input whatsoever into life and death decisions affecting only males ie. sons, nephews, brothers and husbands be sent to armed conflict????? That peeves me off something fierce, because I'm sure every Feminazi with hair on her legs is running, not walking, to apply for all those draft board positions.
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 14:17 Comments || Top||

#23  rex, at the risk of sounding blunt and crude, your entire post above is pure SHIT.
You have no reasons to hold the views you do about Wolfowitz, the Pentagon or the success of the War other than what the Leftist Media has told you to believe.
In the past 2 and 1/2 years, the U.S. has liberated 2 countries and 40-50 million people with fewer than 5,000 KIA (I'm guestimating) total.
Most of those we've liberated are grateful to us and know their lives are infinitely better than they were before we came.
Further, the winds of change and reform are blowing through the neighboring countries that harbor IslamoFascist killers.
Every country that pursues a WMDs program has been put on notice.
And there hasn't been another major terrorist attack on this country since 9/11 (Pray to God and knock on wood.).
And yes, women can too serve in combat areas!
(How do you think we got Jessica Lynch, Lynnie England and poor deceased Lori Piestawa?)
Read RB a lot more and listen to the MainStreamMedia a lot less!
Almost everything you hold to be true about our current situation is not.
Posted by: Jen || 06/26/2004 14:31 Comments || Top||

#24  Jen: In the past 2 and 1/2 years, the U.S. has liberated 2 countries and 40-50 million people with fewer than 5,000 KIA (I'm guestimating) total.

The American KIA number is less than 800. The enemy KIA number may approach 100,000.

Jen: Most of those we've liberated are grateful to us and know their lives are infinitely better than they were before we came.

This is a good side effect, but the major effect of Afghanistan and Iraq is that Muslim countries are devoting a lot more effort to clamping down on terrorists, leading the terrorists to bite the hand that feeds them. Would al Qaeda be attacking the Saudis and the Pakistanis if these countries' rulers were as accommodating as they had been in the past? Does anyone think that the Saudis and the Pakistanis are cooperating with the US of the goodness of their hearts, where they had consistently brushed off US requests in the past? Why have Malaysia and Indonesia kept al Qaeda operatives in detention where they had indicated that they were scheduled to be released - and had repeatedly ignored American requests in the past? Because Afghanistan and Iraq constitute a promise to them that if anything happens as a result of that release, the rulers in power will either spend their time hiding in caves or chained up in prison orange for years to come.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 06/26/2004 14:44 Comments || Top||

#25  Terrific points, Zhang Fei!
Thanks for, in effect, getting my back.
rex's remarks were such baseless lies--that he states as if they were all "givens"-- that I got so upset I literally couldn't think very straight!
Posted by: Jen || 06/26/2004 14:49 Comments || Top||

#26  Frank G #20

Shoot, your high school couldn't beat La Mesa on a good day.
Posted by: Tobacconist || 06/26/2004 14:53 Comments || Top||

#27  ;-)
Posted by: Tobacconist || 06/26/2004 14:56 Comments || Top||

#28  A draft is NOT needed -and it would only serve to RUIN the professional military we have now.
OS, why do you think the Democrats would want to push for it? Then they could get their quagmire and be able to blame the Republicans for it.
Posted by: The Doctor || 06/26/2004 15:11 Comments || Top||

#29  Read the article for crying out loud, before you blather. The money allotted to build troop level has bi-partisan support.

As for your amore for Wolfowitz, Jen, that's sick. He's married and his incompetence will bring down the WH. I don't lie and I do not believe left wing press. I am probably twice as conservative as you on most issues. I just don't have a crush on Wolfowitz.
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 15:19 Comments || Top||

#30  "Rex," military recruiters I've talked to have said that they have more than enough volunteers for however many new slots actually get funded.

BTW, because of budgetary reasons, they're laying off a couple tens of thousands of sailors from the Navy over the next couple years.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 06/26/2004 16:13 Comments || Top||

#31  rex, I see nothing to even hint at Wolfowitz's incompetence.
Since you seem so convinced of it yourself....
Got proof and links?
All I see are 2 successfully run military campaigns.
And you're just going after Wolfie, then next will by Rummy, followed by Bush.
So at last do you reveal yourself to be on the Left side of the street?
Posted by: Jen || 06/26/2004 16:47 Comments || Top||

#32  Rex, you are full of horsesh*t. I cannot put it more plainly than that.

First off, you call yourself Conservative? You are not that, you sound more like a bigot wrapping himself in conservative mantle - you are pathetic and should go back and play with the Larouchies and John Birchers and get back to griping about the Bilderbergs and trilaterals. THat seems to be about the intellectual capacity that you have.

First and foremost: We sustained a far larger Army, Airforce, Navy and Marine Corps not even 10 years ago. A TRUE conservative would have know this from the years of Ronald Reagan.

Secondly, A TRUE conservative would have the faith Reagan did - the faith that our young men and women will step foreward in enough numbers to fill our armed forces when we ask them to.

Third, a TRUE conservative doenst rely on the politics of destruction and personal hatred that you espouse.

THe military:

ALL VOLUNTEER. Despite trips to Haiti, Kosovo, Somalia, Kuwait rotations, Korea, and other beauty spots in the world.

Tere will be no trouble filling the slots.h

Secondarily, you come across as a know-nothing who simply hates Wolfowitz - tagging you as a "neocon" basher.

The direction of this war has beenrun by Rumsfeld, not Wolfowitz.

And as for "academics" being irresponsible, and "not having fought in a war" being a disqualifier, I guess you agree more with Kerry, after all he was in Vietnam. I guess you would have disqualified Marshall from being in charge of post-war Europe.

As for performance, the intelligence community has been pretty bad, not the executives. And I work in Intel. Given manpower, budgetary and political contraints, I challenge you to find ANYONE that could have done any better.

Your idiotic "No professor can do anything with war" is as supid down deep as it is on the surface. Are you really that STUPID? I guess you are since you keep harping on the point. On the birght side, it is good that such a screwjob as you precludes yourself from DoD work - I'd hate to have someone of your subpar rational capacity working for me.

Such idiocy should preclude you from any further commentary, yet you dig your hole deeper.

The response to 9/11 and the takedown of the Taliban, the roll across Iraq, and now the democratization of a region that hasnt seen democracy EVER - those are big accomplishments.

Remember - the Marshall plan didn't kick in until 1947 - yet we already have a functional (albeit at a low level) free market economy, they are taking first steps toqrd self governance, they hav e a stable currency (something Germany and Japan did not have post-war for a few YEARS).

Is everything perfect? No! No war nor occupation EVER is. Thats the nature of war: Its chaotic - which pathetic wanna-bees like you seem to forget every time you get a political objective in your sights.

Sorry Rex, grow up. The world is not a perfect place - but the people we have have made the best of an imperfect situation. And people like you are doing nothing but mipping at the heels and trying to tear them down while they are getting the job done. And as a combat veteran, intelligence operator and current "consultant", I dont care about credentials, its results, and Wolfowitz is getting adequate results when you compare thim to the alternatives.
Posted by: OldSpook || 06/26/2004 16:50 Comments || Top||

#33  Very interesting thread, even w/o Aris stirring the discussion. Keep up the good work.
Posted by: Anonymous5089 || 06/26/2004 17:50 Comments || Top||

#34  Tobacconist - my kids'
High School (Santana) and shoot....um, we try not to use those in the same sentence ;-) But we did take Grossmont...heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 18:06 Comments || Top||

#35  No bet, Frank. I'm pretty sure that your Marines could take PB anytime they want. Although I suspect that Oceanside and Camp Pendleton get the bragging rights.
Posted by: RWV || 06/26/2004 21:25 Comments || Top||

#36  granted....
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 21:34 Comments || Top||

#37  Old Spook, I believe in sequential thinking and not in emotion. I don't have "faith" in politicians. I judge them by results. Afghanistan was a good and necessary campaign. Iraq was not. The mess in Iraq is no reflection on the military. It is a reflection on the folly of the people who thought that Iraq could be all sorts of things without having any facts to support their giant leaps in assumptions. We are not getting any bang for the buck with the Iraq War, simply put, and if that makes me a "bigot"[do you even know what that word means?]and a member of La Rouche and John Birch society in your addled mind, then I think it's time you retire from the military. You are not thinking clearly.

It was foolish to undertake 2 large campaigns at once, especially when the campaigns were 2 unweildy amorphous shape changing thingeys called War on Terror and War of Liberation. Say what???

Also, it is not only me who sees Iraq as a worrisome black hole of energy and resources with no completion date in sight. Just 2 days ago an article was posted here about Israel and the Kurds moving closer to one another as allies because neither group liked what they were seeing in Sunni/Shiite Iraq. If you would like to send your expert opinions to Sharon and to the Kurds' leader per what you spouted at me, I'd be happy to find their email addresses for you. I am sure they would be impressed with your insights about those who criticizes the mess in Iraq.

You may think you were a success in Intel, but here's a tip your obvious lack of debate skills hardly give you any authority to call my opinions "horses**t" or to berate me as a bigot. Stick to what I say, not what you pretend I said.

As for you ,Jen, and your hysterical, hormonal ravings at me - my advice is to get a life. It may be a calming influence for you.
Posted by: rex || 06/26/2004 23:21 Comments || Top||

#38  Nice try Rex - but your arguments do not hold water - meaning you are a LIAR when you say you believe in "sequential thinking" (as opposed to Rational Thought).


And yes, you are a bigot - you make emotionally charged accusations, and back them up with about as much proof as Michael Moore.

Then you accuse anyone that challenges you of doing the same things you are doing. You also ignore ALL facts that counter your poorly held viewpoint.

ANd You are darring Sharon and Israel in, in a lame attempt to draw attention away from your original contention, which was completely demolished.


As for "getting a life", I have a very full one as a husband of more than 20 years, father to my son, Deacon trainee in my Church, intelligence worker, conservative and Republican - and a Torofecundian of long standing (I smell bullshit like yours miles away).

Unlike you, who apparently do not even have the time to think about what you post or back it up with facts.

Rex, your trolling is becoming boring - and youa re starting to exhibit all the classic signs: cahncing the topic, not listing any facts, claiming opinion as "fact", renaming terms ("sequential thinking"), etc. Combine that with your glaring lack of ability to reason even the simplest things like how the Army will fill its ranks wiht more volunteers (ASTOUNDING piece of ignroance and pessimism on your part).

I am beginning to suspect you are a very clever troll trying to smear conservatives.
Posted by: OldSpook || 06/27/2004 0:14 Comments || Top||

#39  Look OldSpook, no offense, but I make very good arguments and you, unfortunately, are good at bluster but not at debate. I am not a blind faith political idealogue. I value results.

Unbeknowns to people like you who do not read anything that may challenge your smug certainty that the better man will win the Presidency in November and that Muslims most assuredly value freedom and democracy because you value those ideals, GWB is barely holding his own with Kerry, a shadow of a man, who even Democrats do not like or respect. Think about it, OldSpook. GWB is the incumbent and should have had the advantage of that position but the Iraq War is descimating the lead he should have had against a lacklustre John Kerry candidate.

Call me a bigot, call me a troll, call me anything you please but you are not going to change the fact that people like you are in a state of denial. GWB may lose the election because Iraq is a mess and someone in his cabinet has to take the fall or it will be GWB that takes the fall in the November election. Right now if Al Queda caused a major incident in the USA, we are to stretched too thin with our troops and National Guard waging 2 wars abroad to be able to respond in a satisfactory fashion here without implementing a draft. And if that happened, you can tra-la-la all you want about your love for GWB, but here's what would happen-not only would GWB not be re-elected but a Republican President would not occupy the Oval Office for many years to come. Kapeesh? No one would tolerate the bad judgement of a President that required the re-institution of the draft.

So stuff all your hate filled paranoia about me, whom you don't know from Adam, and start concerning yourself about the person who should take the fall for the Iraq War, so GWB and the Republican Party can survive this unfortunate miscalculation.

Postscript: thank you for sharing your personal details, I guess??? but like why?? Is this discussion devolving into some kind of AA meeting or something?
Posted by: rex || 06/27/2004 0:46 Comments || Top||

#40  hmm I was tending Rex till Old Spook came on the scene.

Old Spook's winning me now

but it's true i like factual debate and i'm getting sick of the whole you're a troll! epithet. it's good to have other ideas onboard.
Posted by: Anon1 || 06/27/2004 11:12 Comments || Top||


A Place Called Hype by Ann Coulter
Since Clinton was impeached, liberals have been trapped in a time warp. They just can't seem to "move on." Books retelling Clinton's side of impeachment--only since the decadent buffoon left office--include: Joe Conason and Gene Lyons' The Hunting of the President: The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton (endorsed by America's most famous liar!), David Brock's Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative, Sidney Blumenthal's The Clinton Wars, Joe Eszterhas's American Rhapsody, Joe Klein's The Natural: The Misunderstood Presidency of Bill Clinton, Hillary Rodham Clinton's Living History, and now, the master himself weighs in with My Life.

As far as I know, conservatives have produced one book touching on Bill Clinton's impeachment in this time: In 2003, National Review's Rich Lowry decided it was finally safe to attack Clinton and thereupon produced the only Regnery book (Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years) with Bill Clinton's mug on the cover that did not make The New York Times' best-sellers list. That's how obsessed the Clinton-haters are.

Now there's even a documentary version of liberals' Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy fantasy, The Hunting of the President. O.J. had more dignity.

If we're so obsessed with it, why do they keep bringing it up? OK, uncle. You win, Mr. President. If I buy a copy of your book, will you just shut up once and for all, go away, and never come back?
There's more, all of it funny — and to the point.

Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 00:35 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Miss Coulter is one of the best things to ever drive the liberals fully bonkers :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 1:28 Comments || Top||

#2  My Life -- Monica cautions about the sticky pages.
Posted by: Capt America || 06/26/2004 1:40 Comments || Top||

#3  One thing I hate about the new Clinton book is that, the alphabet being what it is, the bookstores shelve it right next to the Winston Churchill biographies. If you look at the shelf you can just see the Churchill biographies edging away in revulsion.
Posted by: Matt || 06/26/2004 10:26 Comments || Top||

#4  Just place a Winston book covering any of Clintons'
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 22:29 Comments || Top||


Vietnam Condemns American Treatment of Prisoners; Cites Kerry’s Testimony
Hat tip: Instapundit. EFL
A Republican lawmaker says Sen. John F. Kerry should apologize for his 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Vietnamese government is now using Kerry’s 1971 comments to question America’s treatment of Iraqi prisoners.
Quelle surprise.
In a one-minute speech on the House floor Wednesday, Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Penn.) noted that the Vietnamese government has weighed in on the Iraqi prison scandal. "But the official communist Vietnamese news agency isn’t citing the Geneva Convention or the U.N.," Pitts said. "It’s citing testimony given by John Kerry in 1971... And now his misleading, inaccurate, hateful words are being used by a government with an atrocious human rights record against this country. Senator Kerry should apologize once and for all to our troops and to our nation...And he should disavow these statements as false before more nations decide to rely on his erroneous testimony from 1971."
Don’t hold your breath, Congressman.
John Kerry - treasonous fuckweasel asskisser to dictators everywhere
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut bskolaut@hotmail.com || 06/26/2004 12:17:12 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  More of the support from foreign leaders the Kerry Kampaign Kommittee has been counting on to persuade the American people that he should lead them the way foreigners want him to.
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 06/26/2004 0:23 Comments || Top||

#2  Fred or Steve - can you fix the stupid typo in the title?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/26/2004 0:26 Comments || Top||

#3  Vietnam? Those commie bastards! What about the 'treatment' they gave our POW's?
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 0:31 Comments || Top||

#4  The Vietnamese government is now using Kerry’s 1971 comments to question America’s treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Would anyone in Hanoi be interested in what Sen. McCain and his fellow former captives have to say about their "questions"?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 06/26/2004 0:47 Comments || Top||

#5  Good to see VNMM become a contribution to world politics again. Like the spy come in from the cold.
Posted by: Lucky || 06/26/2004 1:06 Comments || Top||

#6  Tell them that there are 3,000 highly valuable artifacts burried in a place called Hue City that they can dig up as payment for our "War Crimes."
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/26/2004 3:06 Comments || Top||

#7  FYI - For those who may not know Kerry's testimony before congress in 71 was based on the 'Winter Soldier Investigation' in which so-called 'vets' testified to commiting or witnessing war crimes while in Vietnan during the war. 'Vietnam Vetrans Against the War' ( an anti-war organization of which Kerry and Hanoi Jane (Fonda) were leaders) staged the event. Kerry himself siad, during his testimony, that he, himself, engaged in such activities.

I say so-called 'vets' because, after further investigation of 'Winter Soldier' it was found that most of the 'vets' had either never been to vietnam, never been close to the areas they claim, or were simply imposters claiming they were someone they were not.

In short 'Winter Soldier' was a staged fraudulant event -- and John Kerry was one of the organizers and leaders of the fraud. I don't know if he knew it was a fraud at the time (seems like me *must* have known....).

Read more at:
www.wintersoldier.com
Posted by: CrazyFool || 06/26/2004 10:51 Comments || Top||

#8  I always knew the VC were good for something besides target practice.
Posted by: Chris W. || 06/26/2004 13:57 Comments || Top||

#9  dear sir I think kerry the horse face is a liar and a disgrace to the american , he should go and hide, as for that crook useless J Edwards
should also be ashamed to show his face.,As for Teresa ,she is a very strange person
god forbid that she should be our first lady'
,sincerely EH
Posted by: Anonymous6473 || 09/15/2004 17:23 Comments || Top||

#10  Congresman from Pennsylvania, eh. Wonder what we'll be hearing from Congresscritters from Colorado and Florida.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 09/15/2004 17:25 Comments || Top||


International-UN-NGOs
Boucher talks about consequneces of US loss of Immunity
Excerpted from State Department Daily Briefing for Wed
MR. BOUCHER: We felt the draft renewal that we had presented met the needs of all of the members and was consistent with what the members of the council had stated in passing the resolution before. At the same time, we found that members didn’t agree. So we have decided not to proceed with further consideration of the resolution, the ICC resolution, or action on the draft at this time. We want to avoid a prolonged and divisive debate in the council. We will have to take into account the lack of this resolution, as we look at our various obligations, and the way we proceed overseas. We’ll be doing that in the coming days.

QUESTION: It sounds like you came to the conclusion for sake of not taking too much time, occupying too much time. But you haven’t changed your position, have you?
MR. BOUCHER: We have not changed our position, and in fact, we believe that the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court needs to be -- can’t be established over nationals of states that are not party to the Rome statute and that, therefore, that Americans and others who are not members of the Rome statute, who participate in UN peacekeeping, need to be protected from some kind of misguided prosecution because of actions they might undertake while participating in those operations. We have, I think, demonstrated that in the very unfortunate situation, terrible situation that developed at Abu Ghraib, that the United States does stand for justice and will itself impose justice on any members of our services who might undertake things that constitute international crimes.

QUESTION: It’s a matter for national --
MR. BOUCHER: But it’s a matter for us to take care of and not for some other court with some other jurisdiction that we’re not a party to. We also note, as I think we pointed out before, that some of the ICC states, some of the members of the Rome Treaty have used within that treaty statutes that can get them a delay in the application of the court to their members.

QUESTION: Right.
MR. BOUCHER: So we saw nothing inconsistent with the statute, the Rome Treaty, or with the actions of other members, people who are party to the treaty, in passing this resolution. Obviously, that wasn’t the view that was held strong enough in the council to pass this.

QUESTION: Richard, will this make it harder for the United States to vote for or to participate in peacekeeping missions in the future?
MR. BOUCHER: We will have to examine each of these missions case by case, both in terms of the voting for a peacekeeping mission. We do have, I think, 90, now, Article 98 agreements that, with individual nations, that might be a factor when we come to considering particular missions. We also will have to look at it in terms of staffing and providing Americans to participate in peacekeeping missions, what the risk might be of prosecution by a court to which we’re not party.

QUESTION: Two years ago July, I think -- can I just -- two years ago July, I think there were eight missions that the U.S. was considering abandoning. So I don’t know if this is a larger reconsideration. And I don’t know if it’s a matter of principle or you’re going to be selective to the -- selective as to which operations U.S. personnel might be most vulnerable to international prosecution.
MR. BOUCHER: I think -- we’ll have to -- I’m not even sure that decision has been made, whether we’ll have to pull them all or do it selectively. But we’re going to have to look at the consequences of not having this resolution --

QUESTION: All right.
MR. BOUCHER: -- in terms of the different operations that we participate in, and we’ll make our decisions. I’m not sure if we’ll make it as a batch or individually.

QUESTION: Okay. But you’re not willing to say now that you not -- you won’t participate in any mission where your troops would be at risk of prosecution by the ICC?
MR. BOUCHER: I’m not able to say blanket, one way or the other, what the implications would be for our participation in peacekeeping. We’ll have to look at each of these that we have now, and as per your earlier question, each of them is, as they come along, we’ll examine the impact on our ability to participate and we’ll have to take that into account.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/26/2004 3:21:23 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "I’m not even sure that decision has been made, whether we’ll have to pull them all or do it selectively. But we’re going to have to look at the consequences of not having this resolution "

that's a 'reap what you sow" bow shot over Kofi
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 12:50 Comments || Top||

#2  And not just Kofi. Also the Euros ... and the rotating members who get a lot of aid from us.
Posted by: too true || 06/26/2004 13:06 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Bad week for Assad
Debka, so salt to taste.
Assad cut short Beijing trip Thursday when Chinese officials refused his demand to put up massive funding for his projected economic cooperation treaty and free trade port at Latakiya for marketing Chinese merchandize in Middle East.
Assad doesn’t understand that China wants him to invest in them, not the other way round. On the other hand, there was an Israeli trade delegation in China that week that was well received. Besides the Chinese are too smart to invest in a loser like Syria
Before his trip, European Union issued flat refusal of trade accord as long as Syria joins Iran on medium-range surface missile, chemical and weapons production and centrifuge parts acquisition.It can be painful when effect meets cause.
Posted by: RWV || 06/26/2004 1:13:56 PM || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I predict he'll have more bad weeks before '04 is over
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:37 Comments || Top||

#2  150,000 weapons inspectors are still on the job in neighboring Iraq...
Posted by: Anonymous5405 || 06/26/2004 17:35 Comments || Top||


Syria’s Assad cuts short China visit to avoid meeting Olmert
Syrian President Bashar Assad cut short a visit to China in order to avoid meeting Trade Minister Ehud Olmert, who is also visiting the country, according to diplomatic sources in China.
Just call him Dr. ’Worm’ ASSad
The sources added that Chinese leaders wish to take part in the international diplomatic efforts concerning the Middle East, and have therefore tried to arrange a meeting between the Syrian leader and the Israeli deputy prime minister. However, Assad refused to cooperate, cancelled a planned visit to Shanghai and returned to Damascus.
Nice to see the Chinese as successful with the Middle East as they are with North Korea.
Olmert and Israel’s ambassador to China said they had no knowledge of any planned meeting with Assad. Olmert on Thursday gave a speech at a business banquet in Beijing. he is leading a 200-strong Israeli trade delegation as part of a push by Israel to boost trade and seek new markets for its high-tech products. Also on Thursday, Israeli telecommunications company RAD signed cooperation agreements with two Chinese firms. Israel’s ties with China have recovered from a botched arms deal four years ago and trade is set for firm growth, Olmert said.
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 12:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Like the Nazis who couldn't bear to be in the same room with a Jew...
Posted by: borgboy2001 || 06/26/2004 0:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Must have spilled Chinese food on the nuclear weaponry agreement papers.
Posted by: Capt America || 06/26/2004 1:38 Comments || Top||

#3  See above. The Chinese looked at the Israelis and looked at the Syrians and instinctively knew where to put their money.
Posted by: RWV || 06/26/2004 13:40 Comments || Top||

#4 
When the Assad regimé falls, and he is captured while he is in prision, the best treatment for him is heavy doses of no-stop Yiddish music, to drive him totally bonkers.

Above his cell, but out of arms reach, a giant poster of Ariel Sharon looking down, saying: "You are really a tall shmendrik!" - (nincompoop; an inept or indifferent person; dork; same as shlemiel)
Posted by: Mark Espinola || 06/26/2004 18:43 Comments || Top||


Central Asia
Islamists in Kyrgyzstan want religious police
From islamonline
Five percent of the majority Muslim population in Kyrgyzstan have converted to Christianity due to the spreading missionary work in the former Soviet republic, a Russian newspaper reported Saturday, June 26. The percentage of Muslims declined from 84 percent of the total population in 2001 to 79.3 percent in 2004, state-run Rossia reported quoting Omurzak Mamayusupov, the director of the religious affairs committee in the country. In terms of figures, he added, some 100,000 Muslims, of the country’s five million population, have converted to Christianity. Missionaries are working at full swing in the northern governorates like Narin, Tallas and Issik-Koul, said the official. In addition to circulating thousands of illustrative brochures, books and videos, they have built churches in the aforesaid northern governorates, added Mamayusupov. The committee put at 40 the number of Catholic and Protestant proselytizing organizations operating in the north, chief among them are Svideteli Egovi and Adventists of the Seventh Day. It said they entice the Muslim people away from their religion by money, presents and lucrative work contracts abroad. Mamayusupov warned that such organizations endanger the national security and run the risk of triggering an ethnic conflict. "We must nib this phenomenon in the bud to head off an ethnic conflict in Kyrgyzstan ," he said. The official recalled that for years Orthodox Christians and Muslims have been living in peace and coexistence, cautioning that the missionaries, seeking to spread Catholicism and Protestantism, might ignite a religious war. He added that the government is considering the option of forming a religious police department in the near future to counter the missionary work in the country. Muslim locals were originally following Abu Hanifah Madhhab ( Juristic School ) but some 40 percent model themselves after the Wahabi school of Saudi Arabia . Islam entered Kyrgyzstan in 879 CE. There are around 3,000 mosques in the country of which 2000 have been constructed since 2000 in the south. Although the country has a Muslim majority, the secular-communist regime of President Askar Akaev, who came to power after the fall of Soviet Union in 1991, has largely been showing apathy vis-à-vis missionary activities.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 06/26/2004 5:50:28 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Afghanistan/South Asia
Attack on temple
Unidentified armed men exploded a bomb inside the Arya Dharmasava temple in Khulna city late on Thursday during a Hindu festival. Witnesses said two persons on a motorbike tossed the bomb into the temple, where over 200 devotees were celebrating the eight-day-long chariot festival.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) || 06/26/2004 4:58:32 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Irony Defined: Arafat Calls for Mideast Olympic Truce
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:26 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Kinda like Lucy setting up the football for Charlie Brown (again)...
Posted by: Raj || 06/26/2004 13:36 Comments || Top||

#2  Arafat issued his call for a halt in violence during a symbolic lighting of an unofficial Olympic torch at his headquarters in Ramallah.

Electricity go out again? Actually, what Arafat means is please stop killing the Hamas and Hizbollah guys for until after their field trip to Athens.
Posted by: RWV || 06/26/2004 13:37 Comments || Top||

#3  during a symbolic lighting of an unofficial Olympic torch

Wonder if it was a Marlboro? Or a Newport Light?
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/26/2004 17:21 Comments || Top||

#4  Hamas suicide bomber whose belt misfired...
Posted by: Pappy || 06/26/2004 22:03 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Mendacious Mike claims to be muzzled
ScrappleFace is funny.
(2004-06-25) -- The controversial Michael Moore film ’Fahrenheit 9/11’ spurred controversy again today according to a news release from Michael Moore, the producer of the controversial Bush-bashing film.

"I’m being muzzled by the Bush administration," said the controversial Oscar-winning documentarist through his publicist. "They got my film rated ’R’ to make it more controversial. I’m just a simple journalist trying to make a meaningful documentary, and the rightwingers keep forcing me into the limelight."

In opening-night screenings in New York, the film was greeted with enthusiastic applause. However, Mr. Moore’s web site claims that Bush administration "infiltrated the theaters with people who clapped in an arrhythmic manner".

"The Republican traitors were too cowardly to actually boo my film," wrote Mr. Moore, "But they tried to throw off the clapping rhythm of those who truly loved it. Again Bush is introducing controversy into this simple, truthful documentary. I never meant for it to spark the kind of controversy that it has."
Posted by: Korora || 06/26/2004 10:48:45 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Listening to the Irish press corps raise their blatant socialist opinions questions to Bush during the news conference at Dromoland Castle, I believe Moore must have more than a sack full of potatoes and keg of Guinness to blame for his gut and cheeks. He is obviously Irish and full of shit.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 06/26/2004 12:33 Comments || Top||

#2  However, Mr. Moore’s web site claims that Bush administration "infiltrated the theaters with people who clapped in an arrhythmic manner."

Man, if they ain't got rhythm, you know they gotta be Republicans!

I think that's a new record in petty carping for Moore.

I'll point out again that everyone who's going to vote this year can already see the movie.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 06/26/2004 13:03 Comments || Top||

#3  David Brooks at NYTimes tears Moore and the donks a new one with Moore's own words (caught via Realclearpolitics)
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 13:16 Comments || Top||

#4  The Dems got rhythm
Dems got rhythm
The Dems got rhythm
Dems got rhythm
The got the back seat rhythm
just ask Clinton
The Dems got rhythm
Posted by: Chris W. || 06/26/2004 14:29 Comments || Top||

#5  Bon Scott, buddy!
Posted by: Zpaz || 06/26/2004 16:25 Comments || Top||

#6  "I think that's a new record in petty carping for Moore."

It's called ScrappleFace. It's a warblog version of The Onion.
Posted by: Korora || 06/26/2004 16:40 Comments || Top||

#7  It's called ScrappleFace.

I know what ScrappleFace is. I didn't see the ScrappleFace line before. You sneaked back and put it there, didn't you?

I don't much care for fiction items on Rantburg (but that's Fred's business). You gotta feel for the guy who does ScrappleFace, though; reality's getting harder and harder to satirize.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 06/26/2004 18:39 Comments || Top||

#8  I don't remember seeing it either....and I'm usually the one saying: "hey, it's scrappleface, guys!"
Posted by: Frank G || 06/26/2004 18:44 Comments || Top||

#9  "Farenheit 9/11" is to documentary politics what "Battlefield Earth" was to science fiction, only in battlefield earth, the plot was clearer and the hero was better dressed.
Posted by: Frank Martin || 06/26/2004 22:50 Comments || Top||

#10  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Bootlicker TROLL || 06/27/2004 1:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Hey, don't insult our Leader. He was dressed real swell while reading "My Pet Goat".
Posted by: Bootlicker || 06/27/2004 1:53 Comments || Top||



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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
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Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
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Two weeks of WOT
Sat 2004-06-26
  Jamali resigns
Fri 2004-06-25
  Another strike on a Fallujah safehouse
Thu 2004-06-24
  Fallujah ruled Taliban-style
Wed 2004-06-23
  Saudis Offer Militants Amnesty
Tue 2004-06-22
  Korean beheaded in Iraq
Mon 2004-06-21
  Iran detains UK naval vessels
Sun 2004-06-20
  Algerian Military Says Nabil Sahraoui Toes Up
Sat 2004-06-19
  Falluja house blast kills 20 Iraqis
Fri 2004-06-18
  U.S. hostage beheaded
Thu 2004-06-17
  Turks Nab Four In Nato Summit Bomb Plot
Wed 2004-06-16
  Hosni shuffles off mortal coil?
Tue 2004-06-15
  Zarqawi sez jihad's not going great
Mon 2004-06-14
  Somali charged in plot to blow up Ohio mall
Sun 2004-06-13
  Iran sez no to nuke oversight
Sat 2004-06-12
  Brahimi hangs it up?


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