Hi there, !
Today Wed 03/12/2008 Tue 03/11/2008 Mon 03/10/2008 Sun 03/09/2008 Sat 03/08/2008 Fri 03/07/2008 Thu 03/06/2008 Archives
Rantburg
533966 articles and 1862728 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 66 articles and 220 comments as of 18:59.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area: WoT Operations    Non-WoT    Opinion    Local News       
Chinese aircrew thwarts hijacking attempt
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 2: WoT Background
1 00:00 Seafarious [8] 
12 00:00 CrazyFool [2] 
3 00:00 Icrigger [4] 
1 00:00 JosephMendiola [4] 
12 00:00 NoMoreBS [4] 
1 00:00 JosephMendiola [2] 
0 [1] 
2 00:00 trailing wife [6] 
2 00:00 g(r)omgoru [4] 
32 00:00 Old Patriot [5] 
1 00:00 g(r)omgoru [4] 
1 00:00 newc [4] 
0 [4] 
2 00:00 Old Patriot [4] 
0 [3] 
1 00:00 JosephMendiola [6] 
10 00:00 JosephMendiola [1] 
0 [4] 
3 00:00 JosephMendiola [3] 
0 [8] 
0 [1] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
2 00:00 Penguin [7]
1 00:00 mhw [5]
1 00:00 Redneck Jim [5]
1 00:00 Skunky Phaising6010 [5]
0 [5]
0 [7]
0 [7]
10 00:00 Mike [8]
7 00:00 mhw [6]
3 00:00 Icerigger [3]
0 [7]
1 00:00 Jack is Back! [1]
0 [4]
0 [5]
9 00:00 GK [2]
Page 3: Non-WoT
7 00:00 ed [3]
5 00:00 trailing wife [1]
1 00:00 Bobby []
0 [4]
2 00:00 Frank G []
5 00:00 SteveS [4]
11 00:00 NoMoreBS [4]
0 [2]
6 00:00 Redneck Jim [3]
4 00:00 Pappy [3]
1 00:00 Jack is Back! [2]
2 00:00 Jack is Back! [1]
0 [5]
3 00:00 3dc [5]
1 00:00 Anonymoose [1]
0 [1]
1 00:00 g(r)omgoru [3]
4 00:00 JosephMendiola [2]
Page 4: Opinion
0 []
2 00:00 JosephMendiola [3]
4 00:00 Sock Puppet of Doom [7]
13 00:00 trailing wife [7]
Page 5: Russia-Former Soviet Union
0 [5]
5 00:00 trailing wife [3]
5 00:00 lotp [1]
1 00:00 Mike [4]
12 00:00 trailing wife [5]
3 00:00 Alaska Paul [4]
1 00:00 Phort Barnsmell7838 aka Broadhead6 [1]
2 00:00 newc [4]
Afghanistan
"Death to Holland. Death to Denmark,"
From the Dept. of I've Seen This Movie Before:
Thousands of Afghans burned Dutch and Danish flags on Saturday and demanded that their troops be sent home over cartoons and a film seen as an insult to Islam, police and witnesses said. The largest demonstration on Saturday took place in the western city of Herat near the border with Iran, where about 5,000 marched through town, chanting "Death to Holland, death to Denmark," an AFP reporter witnessed.

One of the protesters tossed a hand grenade into the governor's compound but it caused little damage, provincial police chief Juma Khan Adeel said. Some also attacked a police vehicle with sticks, breaking its windows, he added. Protesters torched the flags of each nation and said Kabul must sever ties with the governments of Denmark and The Netherlands and expel their troops serving in a NATO-led force helping to tackle an extremist insurgency here.

"We want the government of Denmark and Holland to arrest and bring to justice all those who are insulting Islam," one of the organisers said.

In the eastern province of Kunar, about 1,000 men also chanted slogans against the two countries and set alight flags, Khas Kunar district chief Sayed Mahboob said.

The demonstrators said the people behind the film and cartoon must be tried, he said.
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/09/2008 01:55 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We want the government of Denmark and Holland to arrest and bring to justice all those who are insulting Islam," one of the organisers said.

We'll get right on it.

/sarc
Posted by: Free Radical || 03/09/2008 6:28 Comments || Top||

#2  To many of us, flag burning is a kind of sacrilege, especially if it comes with death threats.

Some of us are running out of patience.
Posted by: Excalibur || 03/09/2008 8:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Goodlife speak.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 03/09/2008 9:52 Comments || Top||

#4  I look forward to the day when the chant is:

"Death to Holland! Death to Denmark! Death to Sweden! Death to Norway! Death to Finland!", and most of all:

"Death to Vikings!"

And they only feel safe to chant these things from thousands of miles away.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/09/2008 10:06 Comments || Top||

#5  Death to those who say that Muslims are violent!
Posted by: Formerly Dan || 03/09/2008 10:19 Comments || Top||

#6  "OK, we've brought them to justice. There, you happy?"

(Note: "bringing them to justice" in this case means doing nothing.)
Posted by: Rob Crawford || 03/09/2008 11:00 Comments || Top||

#7  The demonstrators said the people behind the film and cartoon must be tried

Posted by: lotp || 03/09/2008 11:18 Comments || Top||

#8  *yawn*
Posted by: Phort Barnsmell7838 aka Broadhead6 || 03/09/2008 13:09 Comments || Top||

#9  So does this make it okay for the Dutch and the Danes to have "Nuke Mecca" parades or would that be an insult to Islam?
Posted by: tu3031 || 03/09/2008 14:23 Comments || Top||

#10  Newsflash for all the marchers, chanters, and other assorted fruitcakes: IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO "INSULT" ISLAM IN MOST WESTERN COUNTRIES, AND IT WON'T BE AS LONG AS STRONG MEN STAND UP FOR PERSONAL FREEDOM. Get over yourselves - you're not important. Neither is your made-up Satan-worshiping religion.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/09/2008 15:29 Comments || Top||

#11  ROLF!@ lotp!!

LAA-DEE-FRIKIN-DA said w/ a Bored Look to a group of rag heads foaming at the mouth! LOL!

Gawd Damn these Islamos take themselves way too serious.. piss on em..
Posted by: RD || 03/09/2008 17:01 Comments || Top||

#12  Old Patriot, actually they are important, because they are awakening the West from self-induced soporific slumber induced by material plenty and apathy. For my part, I really am glad they exist, because I want them to awaken the West, for us to re-assert the superiority of Western Culture, ideas and political systems. But mostly I'd like to provide as many as possible the opportunity to see how well their heads would fit in rectal defilade!
Posted by: NoMoreBS || 03/09/2008 19:11 Comments || Top||


Africa Horn
China urges Sudan to seek compromise in Darfur
China has urged Sudan to do more to stop fighting in Darfur and speed the arrival of more peacekeepers, Beijing's envoy on the crisis said, defending his country as a diplomatic bridge to help end the bloodshed.

China has faced widespread Western criticism that it has not used its oil, arms and business stakes in Sudan to press for an end to deadly havoc in the vast, arid Darfur region.

But back from talks in Khartoum and other capitals, Beijing envoy Liu Guijin on Friday defended his country as "working hard" on Sudan and others to end fighting, and said China could serve as a go-between bringing peace closer.

Departing from Beijing's usually vague language on Darfur, Liu called the violence there a "humanitarian disaster" that had "forced millions from their homes and, in particular, claimed the lives of tens of thousands".

Liu told a news conference that uncompromising rebel groups also bore blame, but said Sudan's government had top responsibility for stopping the killing. He also urged Khartoum to give ground on disputes holding up full deployment of UN-African Union peacekeepers. "I conveyed China's grave concerns about the deterioration of conditions in western Darfur," Liu said of his recent meetings with President Omar Hassan al-Bashir and other top Sudanese officials.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Sudan

#1  noted.
Posted by: newc || 03/09/2008 10:34 Comments || Top||


Africa North
Egyptian official: Syria likes Gaza chaos
An Arab newspaper in London suggested that Syria finds the conflict in Gaza a welcome distraction from its own acts in Lebanon. "The current escalation on the Palestinian front is in the interest of the Syrians," an unnamed Egyptian official told Al-Hayat. "Indeed the continuation of this situation may embarrass leaders in the Arab world, and force them to go back on their decision to send low-level officials to the Arab Summit, which is set to take place in Damascus."

The official suggested that Syria may have played a part in the massacre of eight people at a yeshiva in Jerusalem. He said leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad were in Damascus at the time of the shooting.
Posted by: ryuge || 03/09/2008 07:32 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  WND > SYRIA "INTENSELY ARMING" ITSELF. All of ISRAEl now in target sights???
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 19:38 Comments || Top||


Egypt discovers and destroys six smuggling tunnels
RAFAH, Egypt - Six underground tunnels used to smuggle weapons and contraband between Egypt and the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip were detected and destroyed, Egyptian authorities said on Saturday. The tunnels, which run under the border, were discovered during a search that began Thursday in and around the frontier town of Rafah. According to a security official, the tunnels were in both agricultural and residential areas.
Pretty much anywhere they can put them. The problem will be solved only when a deep, deep moat is dug from the sea along the Philadelphia corridor.
Egypt has been grappling with the issue of border security for months promising it will cut down on the illegal trade, amid rising pressure from the US and Israel to curb the smuggling. Nevertheless, recent reports have confirmed that dozens of passageways have resumed operations after the reclosing of the Rafah crossing, following January’s Hamas-engineered border breach.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Arabia
Interior Ministry Warns Al-Qaeda Financiers
The Interior Ministry has warned anyone who may have positively responded to Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahri’s calls for donations that they will be penalized if they do not contact the ministry within a week to clarify their position.

In a statement issued yesterday, a ministry spokesman said it had obtained information about citizens and residents who received the voice message sent by Al-Qaeda’s second in command, while questioning 28 terror suspects arrested last week. “The bearer of this message is one of our trusted brothers; therefore, please give him your donations to help hundreds of families of captives and martyrs in Pakistan and Afghanistan,” Al-Zawahri said in the audio recording sent with a man who had come to the Kingdom to visit Makkah.

“The ministry calls upon all those who have established contacts with him on the basis of the message to inform it through telephone No. 990 within a week,” the statement said, adding that the grace period would end on Saturday evening.

The spokesman said contacting the ministry was essential to prove their innocence and clarify their position. “Measures will be taken in accordance with the law against the suspects after the expiry of the grace period,” he added.

Security agents found Al-Zawahri’s message on the memory card of a mobile phone of one of the 28 terror suspects whose arrest was announced March 3.

Since December 2007, Saudi security forces have arrested 56 suspects of different nationalities for allegedly planning to attack sites outside the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah during the last Haj season.

The men were reportedly in the process of rebuilding Al-Qaeda terror network in the Kingdom to launch another campaign of terror across the country.

The spokesman said investigations proved that the newly detained militants belonged to Al-Qaeda and had been in contact with its leadership abroad. They were also recruiting young men and sending them to different regions of the Kingdom to participate in activities that undermine the security of Saudi Arabia.

Meanwhile, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, the Kingdom’s top religious authority, asked wealthy people to exercise vigilance on where they donate their money.

He also warned young Muslims against becoming tools in the hands of foreign groups “which play with their feelings in the name of jihad.”

The mufti warned Saudis against giving money to charities and organizations that finance suspicious groups. “It is bad to give funds to just anyone who asks and to parties with shabby reputations or unknown backing,” the mufti said in a statement carried by Okaz newspaper. “It’s even worse to give it to an organization that is known for its evil and for hurting Islam and its followers,” he added, in an apparent reference to Al-Qaeda, which is blamed for a series of terror attacks in the Kingdom since May 2003.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under: al-Qaeda

#1 
For fun and merriment Let's file his teeth with a dull file. Participants must wear gloves and face shields. No ear plugs as his Sheiky Shrieks are definitely satisfying once you get the file strokes down.

RD/ O'Whereto Dark Lord of the Leprechauns2897? ---> Thaterway! --->
Posted by: Whereto Dark Lord of the Leprechauns2897 || 03/09/2008 0:51 Comments || Top||

#2  Security agents found Al-Zawahri’s message on the memory card of a mobile phone of one of the 28 terror suspects whose arrest was announced March 3.

Were I a terrorist I'd seriously consider giving up cell phones and computers. In fact, I'd start working toward living off the grid completely... perhaps in a cave on the Pakistani-Afghan border, as a subsistence hunter-gatherer. Farming, after all, can be seen by the satellites.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/09/2008 19:51 Comments || Top||


Britain
British servicemen taunted with web video of US soldier's death
A Muslim fanatic sent out a despicable and violent taunt to serving British soldiers when he emailed a video of a US gunner being shot and killed in Iraq. The clip has even been posted on the internet and is accompanied with Arabic chanting as the soldier is slaughtered in Baghdad.

The American-based extremist made the 86-second video, complete with disturbing captions, which showed the soldier's painful death five times and once in slow motion. As YouTube viewers and horrified servicemen watched the graphic film a caption at the bottom of the screen read: "Sniping of an American wild fat donkey."

The terrorist sympathiser, going by the name of "jihad4life4eva2", sent the message through the Forces Reunited soldier's network. At least 14 serving British soldiers received fundamentalist's terrifying video message.

Soldiers have also reacted angrily after discovering that the jihad supporter had been allowed to have his own page on the internet site YouTube, which contained 15 other clips. The website bosses reportedly refused to remove the fanatic's films, but after mounting pressure, it was finally taken off the site.

Lance-corporal Paul Baker was one of the soldiers who received the email. "I was just chatting with my mates on Forces Reunited and I got this message," he told the News of the World. "You clicked on the video and it started playing straight away. It was disgusting. You see the poor bloke get hit. There were 14 of us who got the video and we were all gutted. It was so wrong to send that to serving soldiers."

"We found this nutter was actually allowed a site on YouTube and we complained straight away. YouTube at first sent us back a pitiful email saying that if we were not in the video we had no right to complain. At least now they have seen sense, but that's only after three days and almost 1,000 people watching it."

L/cpl Baker, 24, based with 4 Rifles mechanised infantry at Bulford, Wiltshire, continued: "One message from the site said the bloke was a disgrace to the Muslim world so it was not just us getting upset about it."

The video was attributed to the "Al-furqan Establishment". Another caption on the film read in English: "Mujahideen in Iraq Sniper shoot on US invader ... US imperialist pig wasted in Iraq of occupying Iraq illegally ... This is your fate if you try to invade."
Posted by: ryuge || 03/09/2008 07:49 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "One message from the site said the bloke was a disgrace to the Muslim world so it was not just us getting upset about it."

Presumably some sock puppet for YouTube public relations. Funny how there are 8.6 billion Muslims yet most of them stay silent about this stuff. But not funny "ha ha". Funny "evil".
Posted by: Excalibur || 03/09/2008 8:35 Comments || Top||

#2  the Jawas were on this asshole and got him pulled from YouTube
Posted by: Frank G || 03/09/2008 9:55 Comments || Top||

#3  His videos are gooone.
Posted by: Icrigger || 03/09/2008 13:11 Comments || Top||


Europe
Has Al Qaeda Joined Real Ira Plot?
NORTHERN Ireland has been put on terrorist alert for the Queen’s visit later this month. Police have stepped up security not only because of the threat from dissident republicans but amid concern over an increase in suspected Al Qaeda activity in Ireland. It is feared that the two groups may be sharing expertise.

Police have set up checkpoints on routes from the republic into Northern Ireland ahead of the Maundy Thursday service on March 20 in Armagh which the Queen will attend. Cars and lorries have been stopped and searched along a number of main routes, including the 100-mile-long Dublin to Belfast road.

The royal visit comes just 24 hours before the 10th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement which brought peace to the troubled province. The heightened security follows a warning by Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde that groups such as the Real IRA intend to cause “much damage” to the peace process. It also coincides with an announcement by Interpol last week that it is hunting two Al Qaeda terrorists believed to be on the run in Ireland.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under: al-Qaeda in Europe


Home Front: WoT
Bush vetoes bill to ban waterboarding
President Bush today blocked an effort by congressional Democrats to end secret torture measures used in the fight against terrorism by vetoing an intelligence authorization bill that would have outlawed waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods.

A rare veto in the last year of his two-term presidency, Bush's action was as much a rebuke of Democrats on Capitol Hill as it was a bid to maintain the strong presidential authority to wage war on foreign terrorists that he has asserted since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Al Qaeda remains determined to attack America again," Bush said, calling tough interrogation methods "one of the most valuable tools in the war on terror." He added that forcing prisoners to talk was critical, saying "the best source of information about terrorist attacks is the terrorists themselves."
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Way to go Bush... You are right as usual, of course you do know that americans Around the world will be fair game for water-boarding as well... Bush is de-facto rewriting the rules of war, which is fine, but when it's a young american stretched out on a table, the terrorists will take comfort in knowing that torture is now approved by the USA...
Posted by: mac-d-only || 03/09/2008 0:18 Comments || Top||

#2  Turns out, mac-d, that Americans around the world have no protection with or without this veto.

Saddam was pretty vicious with the few Americans who were taken prisoner in the Iraq and Gulf wars. al-Qaeda terrorists, the few times they've grabbed an American solider, have been vicious in ways you and I hope never to see or experience.

So tell me: if Bush were to ban waterboarding, do you really think al Qaeda would say, "gee, maybe he's right, maybe we shouldn't torture people ourselves?" I hope you'll come back and answer that one.

Americans around the world have always been, and always will be, 'fair game' (as you say) for the thugs, brutes and terrorists. Americans will never be treated well. Go back in history. Check out what happened in Korea. Vietnam (you may have heard of one such prisoner, he survived and is running for President today).

We're always 'fair game'.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 0:29 Comments || Top||

#3  The waterboarding bogeyman is being used to obscure the real purpose of the bill, which was to strip the military of some of its decision-making authority and turn that over to Congress.

Good veto of a bad bill.

I s'pect the World Workers Party fanboyz and Soros zombies have waterboarded each other more often than the US military has on our sworn enemies.
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/09/2008 0:43 Comments || Top||

#4  Dr. Steve, you are right as usual. Let me just add that the last opponents we faced in war who observed the Geneva Convention to the letter were, I'm fairly certain, Imperial Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy generally observed the Conventions with respect to the western allies, but not with respect to their brother socialists the Russians or with respect to the Resistance. Imperial Japan was not signatory to the Geneva Conventions.

Mac-d, you do know, don't you, that the Geneva Conventions are enforced by reciprocity? If your opponents do not observe them, you are released from their obligations and have an absolute right under the Conventions to shoot the enemy prisoners in reprisal.
Posted by: Mike || 03/09/2008 0:47 Comments || Top||

#5  And if we followed the Geneva Conventions, all of the hard boyz at Gitmo would have faced a firing squad long ago. The GC allows an army to execute illegal combatants who are caught out of uniform, hiding among civilians, and/or not under control of a national authority.
Posted by: Rambler in California || 03/09/2008 1:15 Comments || Top||

#6  The US needs to strictly observe the Geneva Convention. Field trials and executions will give the islamists an incentive to follow the western rules of war or we save a fortune in food and man hours. Either is good.
Posted by: ed || 03/09/2008 1:22 Comments || Top||

#7  mac-d:

Choose your poison:

1) Ten waterboardings

or

2) One Al Qaeda interrogation session.

Would you allow soldiers to die rather than allow some suspicious guy "suffer" through a waterboarding session? A simple yes or no answer would be fine. We can interpret the rest, thank you very much.

the terrorists will take comfort in knowing that torture is now approved by the USA

What's your moot point? Do you honestly think terrorists give a $hit?
Posted by: gorb || 03/09/2008 3:10 Comments || Top||

#8  mac-d = Gibbering Liberal that has never read the GC, but loves to invoke its name as some sort of Holy Grail.
Posted by: Glomort Smith8758 || 03/09/2008 3:17 Comments || Top||

#9  Way to go Bush...

Ah, I see the short bus from Toronto has arrived.
Posted by: Pappy || 03/09/2008 11:46 Comments || Top||

#10  I'm glad he vetoed this stupid bill. Waterboard the shit out of them or give'm starbux & subway. Whatever works methinx. I have no illusion what the goat lovers would do to me if I was captured. They don't follow geneva, never have and never will. All they respect is the iron fist. mac-d is typical of the deluded western thought that muslims & especially the terrornutz see the world through the same prism we do.
Posted by: Phort Barnsmell7838 aka Broadhead6 || 03/09/2008 13:04 Comments || Top||

#11  And departed. He didn't stay long. Sigh. They never do.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 13:12 Comments || Top||

#12  To Steve #2... The guy you are referring to - greased his way out of his situation. It's nice when you got money and connections, you can buy your way out of torture. The rest of our not so fortunate sons just get it up the ass - and the worst part is Bush is encouraging it... Do you remember the "bring em on" comment, we know what that encouraged - more US body bags. It's easy for him to sit back and veto bills when a) he is an idiot and b) does not give a rats ass about the troops he puts in harms way!!!
Posted by: mac-d-only || 03/09/2008 14:33 Comments || Top||

#13  greased his way out? You cowardly piece of anonymous shit. Do you even bother to know history or is it just masturbating trolling from Mama's basement?
Posted by: Frank G || 03/09/2008 14:38 Comments || Top||

#14  I'd guess our troll is ignorant by choice and most willful about being morally repugnant, Frank.
Posted by: lotp || 03/09/2008 14:40 Comments || Top||

#15  Ya know, sometimes it just amazes me that some folks have so little in the brain department it's astounding they can breathe.
Posted by: Bobby || 03/09/2008 14:52 Comments || Top||

#16  "Waterboard the shit out of them or give'm starbux"

And the difference being?
Posted by: Elmereth Dingle3003 || 03/09/2008 15:39 Comments || Top||

#17  Mac-d:

1) why don't you explain exactly what you mean by 'greased his way out' of his situation? Please be specific.

2) you didn't answer my first question to you, so I pose it again: if Bush were to ban waterboarding, do you really think al Qaeda would say, "gee, maybe he's right, maybe we shouldn't torture people ourselves?"

3) George Bush cares far more about the troops then you and your progressive friends, and I have plenty of evidence to back that up, starting with the troops themselves. You might ask them.

Sure do you hope you come back. And answer the questions.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 15:47 Comments || Top||

#18  It's easy for him to sit back and veto bills when a) he is an idiot and b) does not give a rats ass about the troops he puts in harms way!!!

You dare to pretend that YOU CARE SHITHEAD!
Posted by: RD || 03/09/2008 16:00 Comments || Top||

#19  He's a 'spray and pray' troll. He comes, he leaves a trolley comment, and he leaves. I'm surprised he came back for a 2nd comment, and I'll be even more surprised if he comes back for a 3rd.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 17:10 Comments || Top||

#20  I don't know a lot of folks involved in this war, but my daughter does. At least a dozen of her classmates joined the military after graduation. At least five of them have served in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Most of them have a very high opinion of President Bush, and a VERY LOW opinion of all the Democrats and quite a few of the Republicans in Congress. Most want to go back, and all of them want to WIN. Congress needs to quit trying to force defeat upon the US and its military. If they don't, there's a growing possibility that both the military and quite a few of the US citizens will do something about it. Some of what they do may be violent.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/09/2008 17:32 Comments || Top||

#21  A little more for Mac-D:

Since you believe that waterboarding equates to torture, why don't you tell us the maximum degree of harsh treatment you'd allow the CIA in questioning a known or suspected terrorist?

For example, is sensory deprivation torture? How about standing for a long period of time? A major change in room temperature? The use of 'good-cop/bad-cop' interrogation?

Because, wherever you personally draw the line, I guarantee you that someone to your left will accuse you of aiding and abetting torture.

And if you reject all harsh treatment, how exactly do you propose to interrogate a known or suspected terrorist? What if that person has time-limited information on an event that will kill many people? How harsh will you be then?

You can come to Rantburg and toss off liberal-progressive bon-mots, and think you've done something special. All the while we'll acknowledge that you're just a wanker.

Or you could try and debate the issue seriously.

Care to try?
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 17:35 Comments || Top||

#22  Not to disagree, OP...and yet, there do seem to be military types that are Democrats. Maybe they hated their service and the military???
Posted by: Bobby || 03/09/2008 17:35 Comments || Top||

#23  Steve! You're not playing fair! He'll never come back!

common sense and logic....
Posted by: Bobby || 03/09/2008 17:37 Comments || Top||

#24  The US needs to strictly observe the Geneva Convention.

Keep in mind the purpose of the Geneva Conventions are not to terrorists (as Congress and the Democrats would have it) but to protect Civilians (that means noncombatants and not combatants who hide behind or among non-combatants).

Among other things it requires all combatants to wear an identifying uniform or badge which clearly identifies them as combatants. Prohibits them from using schools, and mosques as firing platforms. And from using civilians as cover. To violate this is to be an 'illegal combatant' and subject to summary execution in the field. - That's the stick.

Also among the GC is fair treatment of prisoners, prohibition of torture (real torture that is which some might argue waterboarding isn't). - Thats the carrot.

But you see the Carrot and Stick are related. The carrot only applies to legal combatants and the stick (non-protection and summary execution) apply to illegal combatants.

Al-Q, Hamas, Hizbollah, and other by their own actions (which they choose, of their own free will, to follow) are ILLEGAL COMBATANTS - and should get the stick. Hamas uses suicide bombers and fires from schools , hospitals, and mosques, and hides among civilians as a matter of course. Not to mention their deliberate targeting of Civilians for murder.

I would say we *must* apply the stick - we must start having field trials and summary executions of illegal combatants. Why - because China, Iran, and Russia are all watching. If we simply give 'protected' status to illegal combatants then what incentive do they have to follow the GC and follow the 'carrot' in relation to our men taken prisoner in some future conflict? After all we have shown we will give the 'carrot' to everyone regardless of status. By not applying the stick (and liberally) when it is warranted we guarantee that our men will be in even more danger when captured in the future.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 03/09/2008 18:26 Comments || Top||

#25  Hey Steve # 17...

1. The "Swift-Boat Captins for truth" are coming out of the woodwork for john McCain - http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com

There and many more sites that are coming out weekly that are questioning how McCain went from POW - to VIP in Vietnam.

Anyways, I don't personally like him but I will reserve judgement until all the "swiftboat captins" have had their chance to vett him out...

2. You got me... America can not and should not be held to a higher standard than terrorists... Score one for you Steve!!!

3. You are mistaken, I am not progressive at all... More conservative that all of you - I Just can't stand lies. Why won't the US gov just admit that Iraq is about OIL... There is nothing wrong with saying so. If OIL was the goal of the mission than America could safely say it winning!!! Hopefully you know that in order to win a war you need to have an objective for defining the outcome??? "Until the job is done" is a pretty week objective for winning a war, but hey, its not me that got reeled in on that line of reasoning, I will leave that to you to answer...

On the Afgan side of things I thought the mission was to kill Bin laden... Why has the most advanced military in the world not killed him yet. Maybe the US needs the help of the IDF who was able to target and kill Sheikh Ahmad Yassin in his friggen wheelchair... Now that was impressive...

Now before you all gang up on me again... I don't have more time for this... I just wanted to keep Steve happy... I will see you on a new subject some other day :)
Posted by: mac-d-only || 03/09/2008 18:31 Comments || Top||

#26  "more conservative than all of you - I just can't stand lies"
Mac-d-only is either an idiot, an Islamist, or a Democratic politician. Or even two or more of the above. That's the only way he can pile one lie right on top of the next and think he's fooling anybody here. You guys are wasting your time.
Posted by: Darrell || 03/09/2008 18:51 Comments || Top||

#27  mac-d-only is Canadian. That implies a special sort of morality.

I will see you on a new subject some other day :)

No, you won't.
Posted by: Pappy || 03/09/2008 20:04 Comments || Top||

#28  My thoughts, in no particular order:

o If I recall correctly, about 25% of the troops vote Democrat, for various reasons. They are as entitled to their opinion on the matter as we civilians are. Probably a similar percentage loathe President Bush, or disagree about us fighting in Iran, or Afghanistan, or the War on Terror altogether. The categories likely being overlapping sets rather than identical -- Mr. Wife doesn't like Bush because he reads him as a frat boy, not quite the in-group at our Buffalo, NY university... but he voted for him twice, nonetheless.

o We waterboard. Al Qaeda and the other jihadi groups cut off heads with blunt swords, then post the video on YouTube or some similar site for their fellow believers to masturbate to while dreaming of similar greatness. Waterboarding is actually pretend torture, as no actual physical or mental harm is done (getting upset and panicking does not constitute harm, I'm afraid) and it only lasts a few minutes. In contrast to cutting off someone's head, where the damage appears to my untutored eye to be permanent.

o Mr. mac-d-only may well be a hard conservative, possibly even an Libertarian. There are as many idiots on the right as there are on the left, politics being no guarantor of intelligence. There are American-style Libertarians (and even libertarians) up in Canada as well, I'm sure.

o Iraq is only about oil in the sense that Saddam Hussein attempted to wrest control of the critical percentage of Middle Eastern oil in order to control the West -- hence his conquest of Kuwait, intended to be the step that enabled him to conquer Saudi Arabia, which would have given him control of about 3/4ths of Middle Eastern petroleum production. This would not have effected the U.S. immediately, as our main suppliers are Canada and Mexico. Venezuela used to be our #3, but they've been having problems these last few years. No, Iraq, like Iran and Saudi Arabia, are the key suppliers for Japan and Europe, whose economies would crash into a 1929-style depression should those three countries stop supplying them oil.

So in the sense that preventing Saddam Hussein from destroying Europe and Japan means the invasion was about oil... sure. But not because the U.S. would have, or did, get cheap Iraqi oil as a result.

o Afghanistan was never about "getting" Osama bin Laden. That would be like saying World War II was about "getting" Hitler and Togo. Sure, that might work conceptually for a seven-year old, but I rather doubt Mr. mac-d-only is quite that young or simple-minded. Afghanistan was about denying Al Qaeda the safe haven they had been enjoying there, protected by the Taliban who then ruled much of the country.

o The Geneva Conventions (there are a number of them, and the U.S. has not signed off on all of them) were written to protect civilians from soldiers and armies. Soldiers being defined as acknowledged and uniformed employees of one national government in service to wage declared war on other countries. Anyone who does not wear a uniform, is not the acknowledged employee of a government for the purpose of waging open war, or who hides amongst or attacks in any way civilians, is explicitly not given Geneva Conventions protections, and in fact is supposed to be killed when caught, without conditions. A properly constituted court martial with firing squad is not required -- a pistol to the temple will do nicely.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/09/2008 21:02 Comments || Top||

#29  Excellent points, tw. As usual.
Posted by: Darrell || 03/09/2008 21:59 Comments || Top||

#30  You flatter me inordinately, Darrell dear. I've done my best to learn from the inestimable Rantburg U professoriate.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/09/2008 22:20 Comments || Top||

#31  It's threads like this that keep me coming back. Education and Entertainment all in one place. And the fresh troll meat is a bonus.

Sadly though, it seems the trolls of late are not what they used to be.
Posted by: Grease Dark Lord of the Algonquins9226 || 03/09/2008 22:41 Comments || Top||

#32  Just a quick note here. My comments were about a small handful of people - the ones my daughter knows who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't say they're reflective of all the military, but on the other hand, they do seem to have quite a bit in common about the war, where there wasn't much in common between them before they enlisted. TW's comments are, as always, down-to-earth and thoughtful. There's much here, both in her comments and in the comments of others, to reflect upon and ponder. Mac-d cannot be a regular reader, or he(she?) wouldn't make such poorly-supported statements. A regular reader would KNOW they'd find themselves disected under a microscope, and found wanted.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/09/2008 23:12 Comments || Top||


Rising number of troops losing hearing
The nature of battle in current war zones has put 128,000 on ear-related disability

SAN DIEGO - Soldiers and Marines caught amid roadside bombings and firefights in Iraq and Afghanistan are coming home in epidemic numbers with permanent hearing loss and ringing in their ears, prompting the military to redouble its efforts to protect the troops from noise.

Hearing damage is the No. 1 disability in the war on terrorism, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs, and some experts say the true toll could take decades to become clear. Nearly 70,000 of the more than 1.3 million troops who have served in the two war zones are collecting disability for tinnitus, a potentially debilitating ringing in the ears, and more than 58,000 are on disability for hearing loss. "The numbers are staggering," said Theresa Schulz, a former audiologist with the Air Force and past president of the National Hearing Conservation Association.

One major explanation given is the insurgency's use of powerful roadside bombs. Their blasts cause violent changes in air pressure that can rupture the eardrum and break bones inside the ear. Also, much of the fighting consists of ambushes, bombings and firefights, which come suddenly and unexpectedly, giving soldiers no time to use their military-issued hearing protection.

"They can't say, 'Wait a minute, let me put my earplugs in,'" said Dr. Michael Hoffer, a Navy captain and one of the country's leading inner-ear specialists. "They are in the fight of their lives."

Some servicemen on patrol refuse to wear earplugs for fear of dulling their senses and missing sounds that can make the difference between life and death, Hoffer and others said.

Hearing damage has been a battlefield risk since the introduction of explosives and artillery, and the U.S. military recognized it in Iraq and Afghanistan and issued earplugs early on. But the sheer number of injuries and their nature came as a surprise to military medical specialists and outside experts. Sixty percent of U.S. personnel exposed to blasts sustain permanent hearing loss, and 49 percent also suffer from tinnitus, according to military audiology reports.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The only ones surprised at this is youngsters and old folks with poor memory. Any grunt, artilleryman, track vehicle driver or aircraft maintenance troop (WW I on) could have told them this if they had asked. My tinnitus started soon after I serviced an RF-4C in full MOP gear (hard to put in ear plugs when wearing a gas mask w/ hood).
Posted by: tipover || 03/09/2008 1:07 Comments || Top||

#2  Tinnitus sucks. It comes and goes with me. Used to drive me nuts, but one has to live with it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 03/09/2008 3:02 Comments || Top||

#3  As someone who has served in the music industry:

I really feel bad for these men and women in uniform.

I have taken extreme measures (including 1000s of dollars) to make sure that my hearing was 'up to snuff'

And after 17 years as a audio engineer, I had an advanced test of my hearing. The doctors said it was 'mystic'.

I hope that the DVA is going to help these men and women.
Posted by: Free Radical || 03/09/2008 6:46 Comments || Top||

#4  JUST PLAY IT LOUD!
Good line.
My hearing seems to be largely
intact, with some bouts of "did
you say something?" What?
This is nothing new, and I
suspect it has 'risen to the
surface' because of fewer other
things to talk about. That said,
it would be nice to have a
solution.
For now, just gotta deal with it.
Posted by: Whiskey Mike || 03/09/2008 7:09 Comments || Top||

#5  Incoming does not generally wait until you get your hearing protection in.

I've had some hearing loss and tinnitus as well, typical of nearly every veteran. Mine's mainly in my right ear (right handed, so thats where the weapon usually goes).

I guess this is the press being "amazed and alarmed" without knowing the context, since few if any of them served.
Posted by: OldSpook || 03/09/2008 12:52 Comments || Top||

#6  kinda wonder what's doing more damage - the weapons/explosions, or the ever present iPod earbuds...
Posted by: Frank G || 03/09/2008 13:10 Comments || Top||

#7  WHAT?
Posted by: SteveS || 03/09/2008 14:35 Comments || Top||

#8  Rising number of troops losing hearing

#7 WHAT?
Posted by: SteveS


My hearing is surprisingly good BUT I too am forced to use the woid, 'WHAT' very often because I habitually met folks who whisper and mumble.
Posted by: RD || 03/09/2008 16:49 Comments || Top||

#9  My tinnitus is persistent, high-pitched, and LOUD. It does affect my hearing, but so does the hyperacusis that goes with it. Part of mine was brought on by loud noises, and an even larger part by being around very noisy computer equipment, other electronic equipment, and air conditioning. I also have a "significant" upper and lower frequency hearing loss. You learn to live with tinnitus, but you never learn to be comfortable with it. I feel for these young guys - mine didn't start until I was in my early 40's.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/09/2008 17:38 Comments || Top||

#10  REDDIT > KBR/HALLIBURTON WATER MAKING SOLDIERS IN IRAQ SICK. DICK CHENEY to also become [anti] "CHLORINE" DICK???
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 19:36 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
NWFP government hopes for federal ratification of surrender to TNSM new Islamic laws
NWFP Caretaker Chief Minister Shamsul Mulk said on Saturday that his government had adapted the previous Islamic regulations into a set of Islamic laws for the entire Malakand Division. He hoped the federal government would agree to ratify them.

Talking to a 20-member delegation of the Malakand division at his office, he said that regardless, Shariah would be the supreme law of the division. The delegates assured Mulk of their support for permanent peace in Swat and its surrounding districts. They also appreciated Shams’ caretaker government for addressing the core issue of Swat and Malakand division. Mulk said the set of Shariah laws would be Malakand division-specific.

He said the enforcement of Shariah in Malakand would ensure quick and inexpensive access to justice. He hoped the new laws would deliver as all weaknesses in the previous regulations have been removed and the process of implementation would be completed soon. The new Islamic regulations would not cause any disputes because legal experts had overseen their adaptation, he added.

Mulling release: The delegates also appreciated the government’s shifting of Sufi Muhammad from Dera Jail to Peshawar. Mulk told them that the government was also considering Sufi Muhammad’s release so that the people could see the tenacity and sincerity of the government for the fulfillment of their demand. He said a board of doctors was taking care of the ailing Sufi Muhammad, adding that there was no threat to his health.

According to Mulk, the government wanted the safety of Sufi Muhammad. He hoped that Muhammad would guide people on the right path. He said the government would ensure compensation for the people affected by the military operation, adding that a development package would soon follow.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 10:41 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under: TNSM

#1  Ratz. IIRC, the TNSM folded like a cheap tent ever' time the Pak army looked crosswise at them...
Posted by: Seafarious || 03/09/2008 20:34 Comments || Top||


Pakistan army still backs him: Musharraf
Time for a Rantburg opinion poll, and remember, death is not an option: pick the date Perv is ousted.
MULTAN, Pakistan - President Pervez Musharraf said Saturday that Pakistan’s powerful army was not ‘distancing’ itself from him following the defeat of his political allies in elections last month.

Musharraf said claims of a rift between him and the military were being spread by people trying to destabilise the nuclear-armed nation. ‘It is absolutely wrong that the army is distancing itself from me. There is no truth in it,’ Musharraf said at the inauguration of a state television station in the central city of Multan.
"Oh Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up!"
It was the second time in two days that Musharraf, a key ally in the US-led ‘war on terror,’ touched on his relations with the 600,000-strong military, which has ruled Pakistan for more than half of its 60-year existence.
And he'll keep saying it, and he'll click his ruby-red slippers, all the time hoping it isn't true and knowing deep, deep down inside that he's toast ...
On Friday Musharraf, who until then had kept a low profile since the elections, said that the army could not forget him. ‘It is my army, it is the army of Pakistan. It cannot forget me,’ state media quoted Musharraf as saying at an official function in the southern city of Jacobabad.
Perv who?
Musharraf’s remarks follow a statement by the new army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, vowing full support to the elected government while saying that any split with the president was not in the country’s interest. The statement issued after a corps commanders meeting on Thursday said that Kayani ‘observed that an impression is being created about ‘distancing of the army from the president.’’
Now why would he feel compelled to make a public comment about an observation of an impression? Heh ...
Kayani ‘pointed out that any kind of schism, at any level, under the circumstances would not be in the larger interest of the nation,’ the statement said, adding that Kayani called for a ‘harmonised relationship between various pillars of the state.’
Or else he'll just take over. It isn't like it hasn't been done before.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq
Iraqi president seeks to build on Turkey ties
ANKARA - President Jalal Talabani said on Saturday Iraq was keen to boost economic and political ties with Turkey a week after Ankara ended an army offensive against separatist PKK guerrillas in northern Iraq.

The PKK issue and Turkey’s fears that Kurds in northern Iraq aim to create their own state have strained relations between the two countries. Talabani aimed to defuse some of those tensions. ‘We want to establish strategic relations in every area including oil, the economy, trade, culture and politics,’ Talabani told a meeting with Turkish business leaders on his first visit to Turkey as head of state.

Talabani also called on Turkish companies to invest in Iraq on the second day of his visit to Ankara, state-run Anatolian news agency reported. ‘We are ready to make it easy for you (to invest) in all regions including the country’s south, Baghdad and Kurdistan,’ he said.

Talabani, a Kurd, said on Friday he had called on the government of Iraq’s Kurdish autonomous region to pressure the PKK to give up their weapons or leave the region.

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was scheduled to host a lunch for Talabani at his official residence on Saturday.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Abbas demands peace after killings
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Saturday for talks with Israel despite a surge of violence and said that a just peace was his people's goal.

"We condemn all the attacks, we demand peace and we are determined to make peace, and there is no other path but the path of peace based on international justice," Abbas told a rally at his headquarters.

A Palestinian gunman killed eight Jewish seminary students on Thursday, the bloodiest attack in Israel in two years. Hamas, which had vowed to avenge the more than 125 Palestinians killed in a recent Gaza offensive by Israel, claimed responsibility.

Israeli investigators were questioning eight people in connection with the attack, seeking to establish whether the gunman, who was killed, had acted alone or was connected to any militant group, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said.

The shootings in Jerusalem triggered calls by Israeli right-wingers to scrap U.S.-sponsored talks with Abbas.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told a women's conference near Tel Aviv on Saturday night that there was no difference between the shooting attack and Gaza militant rocket fire at southern Israel, and said Israel would curb the rocket strikes. "There is a direct connection between the rockets which disrupt the lives of the residents of the south and the attack in Jerusalem, both were intended by their perpetrators to make our lives here intolerable. It will not happen," Olmert said.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Palestinian Authority

#1  Condi's busy right now, Abu Mazen.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 03/09/2008 9:54 Comments || Top||


Hamas claims responsibility for Jerusalem seminary attack
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian Islamic Hamas movement claimed responsibility for a shooting attack in Israel that killed eight students and injured many others in a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem, a senior Hamas official said on Friday. "The Hamas movement announces its full responsibility for the Jerusalem operation," the official was quoted by western media assaying.

Gunmen infiltrated into the religious school named Mercaz Harav Yeshiva and opened fire indiscriminately at nightfall Thursday.

On Thursday evening, an organization calling itself "Galilee Freedom Battalions -- the Martyrs of Imad Mughniyeh" claimed responsibility for the attack, according to Hezbollah's Al-Manar television. Israeli security forces across Israel were on the highest level of alert on Friday, setting up road blocks and tightening restrictions on Palestinian travel in and from the West Bank for 36 hours.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Hamas

#1  REDDIT SCIENCE > GENE/GENETIC RESEARCHER: JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ARE GENETIC BROTHERS.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 19:40 Comments || Top||

#2  #1 REDDIT SCIENCE > GENE/GENETIC RESEARCHER: JEWS AND PALESTINIANS ARE GENETIC BROTHERS.

Of course they are! They have the same father - Abraham. Hannah birthed Ishmael, the first Arab, while Sarah birthed Isaac, the first Jew. Both mothers were told their children would become "a vast host".
Posted by: Old Patriot || 03/09/2008 23:16 Comments || Top||


Hamas, Islamic Jihad to discuss ceasefire in Egypt next week
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian factions Hamas and Islamic Jihad (Holy War) will visit Egypt next week to continue the talks on ceasefire deal with Israel under Egyptian mediation, an Islamic Jihad leader said on Saturday. Khaled al-Batsh told reporters that a delegation from his movement visited Al-Arish city in Sinai last week as part of preparations for the talks which will focus on the calmness, internal Palestinian dialogue, lifting the siege and reopening crossings into Gaza Strip.

Israel imposed a strict blockade on the Gaza Strip since last June when Hamas took over the territory from President Mahmoud Abbas' forces. In addition to the siege, Israel stepped up military operations in the Hamas-ruled coastal Strip.

Al-Batsh said there have been talks on ceasefire "but the Islamic Jihad can accept it only when the occupation stops its crimes and becomes ready to give the Palestinians their rights."

Meanwhile, al-Batsh called on Hamas and Abbas' Fatah movement to end their differences, which widened after Hamas took over Gaza. "Any side that insists on not starting the dialogue brings harm against the Palestinian people, their cause and rights," he said.

On Thursday, a delegation from Hamas and Islamic Jihad movements visited Egypt for talks on the security situation along the Egypt-Gaza border following Israel's recent military actions in Gaza. Their talks also dwelt on how to reach a truce with Israel in order to protect innocent Palestinians in Gaza. Egypt tried to persuade Hamas to accept a truce that would halt rocket attacks on Israel in an effort to end Gaza violence and salvage Middle East peace talks.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under: Hamas


Palestinian sources say Hamas, Hezbollah helped in terror attack
The gunman who murdered eight students at Mercaz Harav Yeshiva in Jerusalem last Thursday was acting on instructions from Hamas leaders in Damascus, in coordination with Hezbollah, Palestinian defense sources said.

Over the weekend, eight East Jerusalem residents were arrested in connection with gunman Ala Abu Dhaim's shooting attack. Abu Dhaim's father, two of his brothers and two cousins are among those detained. The father also removed Hamas and Hezbollah flags from a mourners' tent the family had erected, after being instructed to do so by police. According to the Palestinian news agency Maan, Abu Dhaim's father had in the past been a member of Hamas.

Abu Dhaim, 25, was killed at the scene of the attack by an off-duty Israel Defense Forces officer who lives nearby the seminary. So far no Palestinian or Arab organization has claimed responsibility for the attack, although Palestinian sources have said that the attack had been planned by a Hamas network in the West Bank acting on orders from its leaders in Damascus. Hamas' leadership in Gaza was not privy to the plan, which was drawn up in coordination with Hezbollah, the sources said. The Palestinian Authority believes this was the first of a number of planned attacks by both Hamas and Islamic Jihad, independent of each other.

The Shin Bet security service said the gunman was not known to them. Major General Ilan Franco, the commander of Jerusalem's district police, told Channel 2 that the attacker was "not known to the security forces."

An initial police investigation has revealed that the shooting was not a spontaneous attack, but had been planned in advance. Police also learnt that Abu Dhaim had personally chosen the location and time for the shooting. To this end, he carried out extensive reconnaissance and intelligence-gathering work on the yeshiva.

The gunman had also stockpiled weapons and ammunition, only some of which he took to perpetrate the attack - an AK-47 assault rifle, two pistols and a few magazines.

Since Abu Dhaim, an East Jerusalem resident, had a blue identity card, and since he transported people in the area, he was able to move freely in the city's western part, too, and seems to have been well-acquainted with the attack site. The key question is where he obtained his AK-47 assault rifle, which he used to attack the yeshiva.

Investigators were seeking to establish whether Abu Dhaim had acted alone or was connected to any militant group, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. Abu Dhaim never worked in the yeshiva and the police dismissed the assumption that he had planned to stage a standoff inside the yeshiva, while taking students hostage.

In a television interview in Lebanon, a Hezbollah man yesterday denied any connection to the attack. Hamas spokespeople in the Gaza Strip said they were checking whether their organization was connected to the attack.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said yesterday that just as Israel has managed to stop Hezbollah from "firing a single missile for the past year and a half," so it will stop the terror organizations, too.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under: Hamas

#1  TEHRANTIMES > ISRAEL:HEZBOLLAH MISSLES CAN REACH DIMONA [Isr nuke reactor]. From Beruit.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 23:11 Comments || Top||


Peres says Israel will not act alone on Iran
Pity.
PARIS - Israel will not consider unilateral action to stop Iran getting a nuclear bomb, President Shimon Peres was quoted as saying on Saturday. In an interview with France’s Le Figaro newspaper ahead of a trip to Paris next week, Peres said, however, if economic sanctions failed to persuade Iran to stop its contested nuclear programme then ‘non-military options would be used up’.

‘I would prefer to stop the development of the bomb without recourse to war. Sanctions have proved their efficacy in the past,’ Peres said, citing decisions by Libya, South Africa and North Korea to renounce nuclear plans.

Asked if Israel would act alone to stop Iran getting the bomb, Peres, a former prime minister who currently holds no executive power, replied: ‘Under no circumstance. We are not so imprudent as to concentrate the Iranian danger on Israel.’

‘It’s a problem that the rest of the world must resolve. With the long-range missiles developed by Iran the problem is not only Israeli,’ Peres added.
Good luck trying to wake the Y'urp-peons to the problem. They've already made clear that they don't feel threatened by nuclear missiles being aimed at them. Been there, done that.
He accused Iran of seeking outposts in Lebanon, Gaza, Syria and Iraq. ‘We mustn’t close our eyes. If a minority of terrorists are able to equip themselves with nuclear missiles then the world could become ungovernable.’

Peres defended Israel’s attack last week on Gaza to stop missiles being fired at its territory. ‘If we know that someone is preparing to launch a missile against our territory we will target them to stop it happening,’ he said.
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1 
Good luck trying to wake the Y'urp-peons to the problem. They've already made clear that they don't feel threatened by nuclear missiles being aimed at them. Been there, done that.


Ah yes, but the Soviets were sane compared to the head bonkers.
Posted by: Uleager Barnsmell6779 || 03/09/2008 8:45 Comments || Top||

#2  Whatever happened to the New ME, Shimi?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 03/09/2008 9:55 Comments || Top||

#3  JPOST > HAMAS COMMANDER: IRAN TRAINS OUR MEN. ALso points to SYRIA- admits that HAMAS has 15000 fighters and modeled itself after HEZBULLAH.

JPOST Poster > argues that IRAN IS AT WAR WID ISRAEL [proxy].
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 19:58 Comments || Top||


Olde Tyme Religion
Al-Jazeera apologizes over 'Barbarian Muslims' remark
Qatari satellite network al-Jazeera was busy this week trying to calm the row sparked in the Arab world following remarks made on one of its program against Islam. "The al-Jazeera network deeply apologizes for the fact that one of its programs' participants degraded Islam and the monotheistic faiths on her own initiative. The channel extends its apology to all its viewers for the offensive remarks and has canceled both reruns of the program," the network said in a statement.

The unusual apology came following a debate on the talk show "The Opposite Direction" – one of the station's flagship programs, which has stirred many rows in the past with harsh criticism against the Arab regimes. This time the program hosted Wafa Sultan, a Syrian psychologist living in the United States. On the agenda were several explosive components: The Muhammad cartoons in Denmark, Israel's operations in the Gaza Strip, the Holocaust and especially Islam.

Here is what Sultan said: "All the religions and faiths have been subject throughout history to criticism and insults, and this helped to develop and amend them over time. The only faith which beheads those who oppose it – is destined to turn into terror and tyranny. This is the situation of Islam from its beginning to this day. It has sentenced its critics to prison terms, and those who escaped custody were killed. The Danish cartoons have managed to drop the first brick in the wall and open a window, through which the sun rays will be able to enter after a long period of darkness."

She went on to say that "the Danish newspaper implemented its right for freedom of expression. The freedoms are the holy of holies in the West, and there is nothing which supersedes them. And I say, if Islam was not what it is, these cartoons would not appear. They did not come from an empty space, and the cartoonist did not make them up from his sick mind. They were an expression of what he is familiar with."

Describing the illustrations, Sultan continued, "The Muslims' barbaric reaction added to the value of these cartoons. It simply proved their rightness: The Muslim is an irrational creature, and the things he learned overpower his mind and inflame his feelings. That is why these remarks have turned him into an inferior creature, who cannot control himself and respond to events in a rational way."

Tala’at Ramih, an Egyptian Islamic writer and researcher, who clashed with Sultan on the program, responded with astonishment: "God forbid! These are all one hundred percent lies. It appears that the American and Zionist intelligence have already begun creating people hostile to their nation in this way."

The program's host, Faisal al-Qasim, asked her, "Why is the freedom of expression in the West holy only when it comes to humiliating Muslims? Can they talk about the Holocaust? Can they talk about Christianity? Cinemas have been torched in the West for talking about Christianity."

Sultan fought back: "I live in America and I never heard of one cinema being torched here. Where do you get these reports from? You should criticize your beliefs in the same way the Christians criticize their beliefs."

The debate quickly moved to the events in Gaza, which have already been compared to a holocaust in the Arab world. "When a person detonates himself he becomes a terrorist, but when a people and an entire state are destroyed it's human?" the host asked.

Sultan replied, "Why are they angry about what is happening in Gaza. The Koran has already told them, 'Kill or get killed.' So they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that? They want to die as shahids (martyrs). They want to meet their black-eyed virgins. Israel helps them meet them, so what's wrong with that? If you want to change things, you must reexamine your terror studies; honor the other's right to live; preach love, peace and coexistence to your children. When you do that, the world will respect you, see you differently and portray you differently."

Later in the debate, Sultan condemned both the Palestinians and the Israelis "in the same way" and complained about Hamas' choices. She spurned the Holocaust denial in Europe.

The popular television program caused great anger against al-Jazeera, which was expressed in other media outlets. "It sparked a new scandal by hosting Sultan, who is known for her hostility towards Islam and the Muslims. She cursed the divine religion, attacked the Koran and scorned the prophet's honorable way," the London-based Arabic-language newspaper al-Jazeera wrote.

"Al-Jazeera's silence is unforgivable," a Jordanian newspaper wrote. "This network leads the normalization campaign with the Zionist enemy and is the only one which hosts the official spokespersons of the enemy's army and government."

Al-Jazeera chose to apologize, and according to one report, even warned the host not to let Sultan take part in the program again. But this might not be enough. "This apology is weak, lacking and unacceptable, and does not compare to the level of harm which appeared on the screen," a special committee declared, demanding that the Qatari network publish a clearer apology and devote an entire program to discuss this issue.
Posted by: ryuge || 03/09/2008 09:34 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What we need is more Wafa and less Al-Jazeera. How come Wafa isn't on the major networks or cable stations here in America? Lets turn her lose as a counterpoint to CAIR every time they ask Ibrahim Hooper to comment, have Wafa in the next chair.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 03/09/2008 9:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Little do they realize that the words "Barbarian Muslim" hit home and hurt more than anything else.

Islam *pretends* to represent civilization, while attacking civilization. They insist that they are civilized, that everyone else are barbaric, even though the truth is plainly evident to all.

The psychological effect of repeatedly calling Islam "Barbaric" will rattle them terribly, and should be done frequently. It dispels their illusions and fantasies.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 03/09/2008 10:10 Comments || Top||

#3  Sultan better get back to civilization right quick before they sacrifice her to their moon god. Always like how Oriana Fallaci called the burka a "medival rag" to Khomeni's face; but terms like medival and barbarian have noble connotations that elevate what is in bleak reality a gutter culture.
Posted by: regular joe || 03/09/2008 10:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Boy, the unpolished truth really makes them squeal.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 03/09/2008 10:52 Comments || Top||

#5  G'wan. Have a few riots about Sultan. Prove her point, why dontcha?
Posted by: ThinempWhimble || 03/09/2008 11:47 Comments || Top||

#6  Want to really tick off a Muzzie? Repeat, verbatim, exactly what the Koran says about how to treat infidels. Muzz are truly nuts. They work and spend like crazy to get Mo's word out to all and sundry, then get royally pissed when their holy book gets accurately quoted.

Sounds like Wafa Sultan hit a real tender spot with that "barbarian" line. She's perfectly correct, of course. The Muzz can't handle the truth about their worthless and violent moon god cult so they try to suppress anyone who voices it. I hope she was being interviewed on a video link from the U.S.; if she was in the M.E., I wouldn't give much for her chances of getting back home in one piece.

I'd like to see an "O'Reilly Factor" session with her and Ayaan Hirsi Ali; that would be something to watch. The videos of the Muzzies going slap f*cking berserk afterward would be even more entertaining.
Posted by: Pancho Elmeck8414 || 03/09/2008 12:05 Comments || Top||

#7  Hmmm....! Obviously there is only one civilized and correct way to deal with disparagers of the one true religion. OFF WITH HER HEAD!
Posted by: Snigum Hapsburg7591 || 03/09/2008 12:44 Comments || Top||

#8  Want to really tick off a Muzzie? Repeat, verbatim, exactly what the Koran says about how to treat infidels

Exactly Pancho. I've seen that time and time again. Also, hotlink to video
Posted by: Icrigger || 03/09/2008 13:07 Comments || Top||

#9  That video is a killer -- she mops the floor w/ Al-combover and Bin-clip-on tie. Sultan is my new hero along w/Al-Hirisi. No wonder these swine want to bury their women in burkas and mutilate them w/clitorectomies -- they don't stand a chance in an even fight (or two against one for that matter).
Posted by: regular joe || 03/09/2008 14:17 Comments || Top||

#10  Barbarian Muslims

Tautology is not a crime.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 03/09/2008 17:30 Comments || Top||

#11  No doubt we'll never find out how many of those Muslims who watched that show started seriously wondering about what had been heretofore unquestioned in their minds.
Posted by: trailing wife || 03/09/2008 21:14 Comments || Top||

#12  TW - That is exactly why the Islamic leadership are so terrified (not offended - terrified) of the Motoons and the Wilder film or any criticism of Islam. They are terrified that their followers might begin to question their teaching and their authority.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 03/09/2008 21:48 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
N. Korea admits to sending engineers to Syria
Hat tip Power Line.
NEW YORK, March 7 (AP) - (Kyodo)—North Korea admitted to sending engineers to military- related and other facilities in Syria during its recent talks with the United States over its nuclear program, diplomatic sources in New York said Friday. Pyongyang, however, denied its involvement in Syrian nuclear development, according to the sources.
"They're cement engineers. Yeah, that's it, cement engineers!"
The dispatch of engineers and other personnel for bilateral cooperation, including on the military front, started in around 2000, North Korea told the United States in their talks from the end of last year to January.

The North also exported materials to Syria, the sources said. Pyongyang claimed most of the personnel worked at civilian facilities, according to the sources.
Because you'd never have cement engineers at a military nuclear facility, no sir Senator ...
Posted by: Steve White || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Article also indicates "materials".

ION, NOKORS > VARIOUS NET > NORTH KOREA recently executed FIFTEEN NK'ers, including 13 women, attempting to cross into CHINA while allegedly looking for food. MORE - ARTICLES INDIC THAT MORE AND MORE NOKORS ARE TRYING TO SLIP ACROSS TO GET OUT OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY???
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 03/09/2008 19:03 Comments || Top||


Hezbollah denies involvement in yeshiva attack
Hezbollah denied involvement in the Palestinian shooting spree at Jerusalem's Mercaz Harav yeshiva. Israeli security officials said the Lebanese militia may have ordered Thursday night's attack, in which eight students were killed, though initial indications were that gunman Ala Abu Dhaim, who was himself shot dead, acted alone.

Hezbollah vowed revenge last month after its top terror commander died in a Damascus car-bombing which many Arabs blamed on Israel, but it distanced itself from the Mercaz Harav attack. "The Israelis are trying to throw around blame for the attack, but everyone knows that Palestinian factions are capable of attacking Israel," Israel Radio quoted senior Hezbollah official, Mahmoud Kamati, as telling Iranian media.

There were various claims of responsibility for Dhaim's shooting spree, including by a little-known Palestinian faction and an equally obscure Israeli Arab terrorist group that have long been regarded as potential Hezbollah fronts.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Hezbollah

#1  I don't care who did it. Whoever said it was a good thing needs to hurt. That would be Hamas, Hezb'Allah, and anyone eating candy that day.
Posted by: gorb || 03/09/2008 3:23 Comments || Top||

#2  First, and foremost, the family of the terrorist should be hurt---the only way to deal with eusocial creatures.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 03/09/2008 17:28 Comments || Top||


Hezbollah accuses U.S. of declaring war on Lebanese opposition
(Xinhua) -- A Hezbollah official for international affairs Nawaf Moussawi on Friday accused the United States of declaring war on the Lebanese opposition, vowing to defeat any aggression, state-run National News Agency reported on Saturday.

"The U.S. declares an unveiled war on the opposition which represents the majority of the Lebanese people," Moussawi said, stressing that the opposition is capable of confronting any aggression "whether it is political or non political."

"The opposition has managed to stop Israel military aggression, and prevented American hegemony," he added, pointing to the July2006 war when Israel, backed with the U.S., launched 33 days of air and land military operation against Lebanon in retaliation to Hezbollah kidnapping of two Israel soldiers from Israeli boarders with Lebanon. "The American hegemony is cracking," he said, and this is why the U.S. sent navy vessels off the Lebanese coast. Hezbollah is considered a main group in the Lebanese opposition, and is accused by the U.S. and its allies to be the primary ally of Iran and Syria in the region.
Posted by: Fred || 03/09/2008 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Hezbollah



Who's in the News
51[untagged]
4Hamas
2TNSM
2Hezbollah
2Taliban
1al-Qaeda
1al-Qaeda in Europe
1Palestinian Authority
1Govt of Pakistan
1Govt of Sudan

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog











On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2008-03-09
  Chinese aircrew thwarts hijacking attempt
Sat 2008-03-08
  Police Believe Recovered Bike Was Times Square Bomber's
Fri 2008-03-07
  Viktor Bout arrested in Bangkok, indicted in U.S.
Thu 2008-03-06
  Times Square recruiting station boomed
Wed 2008-03-05
  Double kaboom at Pak navy college kills 5
Tue 2008-03-04
  Hamas claims 'victory' as Olmert dithers, IDF pulls out of Gaza
Mon 2008-03-03
  U.S. bangs Qaeda big in Somalia
Sun 2008-03-02
  70 Gazooks titzup in IDF operation
Sat 2008-03-01
  Colombia bangs FARC 2nd in command in Ecuador
Fri 2008-02-29
  Predator zap kills 10 in South Wazoo
Thu 2008-02-28
  VA imam thought to have aided al-Qaida
Wed 2008-02-27
  Boomer on a bus kills 40 near Mosul
Tue 2008-02-26
  Wheelchair boomer kills cop in Samarra
Mon 2008-02-25
  Yemen foils attempt to bomb oil pipeline
Sun 2008-02-24
  Iraqi security forces kill 10 al-Qaida insurgents


Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
18.226.4.239
Help keep the Burg running! Paypal:
WoT Operations (15)    Non-WoT (18)    Opinion (4)    Local News (8)    (0)