I love that headline, just as much as I love the reasoning or lack thereof behind it. Y'see, just because nine Moose limbs either exploded or tried to explode in the British public transit system, inflicting a large number of casualties on their fellow citizens or inhabitants in the name of their religion, that's no reason to take any action to protect the nation against members of their religion who may feel called upon to do the same thing. You might alienate other homicidal maniacs, who would them attempt to... ummm... do the same thing they were going to do anyway.
Prime Minister Tony Blair's government on Saturday defended its plans to crack down on extremist Islamic clerics who preach hate, as critics warned the measures could further alienate British Muslims.
Just an aside here, but when I was a lad, the noun was "hatred" and the verb was "to hate." When did the language change?
Britain's chief legal official, Lord Chancellor Charles Falconer, said the deadly attacks in London on July 7 showed the government must act against people "who are encouraging young men who are becoming suicide bombers. I think there is a very widespread sense in the country subsequent to July 7th that things have changed. A new balance needs to be struck. It needs to be a lawful balance but it needs to be an effective balance," he told British Broadcasting Corp. radio.
To me, that seems the very voice of sweet reason, but then I'm a linear thinker who believes in cause and effect...
Since the bombings on three subway trains and a bus, which killed 52 people and four suspected suicide attackers, Blair's government has been trying to build support among political opponents and Muslim leaders for new anti-terrorism legislation. On Friday, the prime minister announced proposals to deport foreign nationals who glorify acts of terror, bar radicals from entering Britain, close down mosques linked to extremism, ban certain Islamic groups and, if necessary, amend human rights laws.
That's basic management school stuff. If you have a problem, you identify solutions, staff them, apply feedback within constraints, then implement them.
But the government's new plans appear to have cracked the spirit of consensus. Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy warned the measures could alienate the law abiding majority of Britain's 1.8 million Muslims and inflame tensions.
Whoa, there Chuck! The measures involve deporting foreign nationals who glorify acts of terror, which the presumably law-abiding majority of Muslims should be happy to support; barring radicals from entering Britain, which would keep the population law-abiding, rather than flavoring it with the lawless; closing down mosques linked to extremism, which the law-abiding presumably don't frequent; and banning certain Islamic groups on the basic of their lack of law-abidingness. Which of those points, precisely, do you object to?
"A fundamental duty, a responsibility on all of us, whether government or nongovernment, is to uphold the rule of law and the safety of the citizen," he said.
Hey! Boilerplate! Go ahead, ooze some more platitudes...
"But alongside that, of course, is to uphold civil liberties and the right to free speech. It is getting that balance right that will be very important ..." he told BBC radio.
Agreed. It's very important. Also important is stopping people from killing large numbers of Londoners with explosives in the public transportation system and maiming even more.
A British Muslim group called the Islamic Forum Europe warned the measures could jeopardize national unity in Britain.
That means they don't like it, pehaps because they're not... ummm... law-abiding at heart...
"If these proposed measures are allowed to see the light of day, they will increase tensions and alienate communities. The measures are counterproductive and will encourage more radicalization," said forum President Musleh Faradhi. "Many Muslims will perceive our prime minister as playing into the hands of the terrorists." He also criticized the government's plans to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, a radical Islamic group that calls for the formation of an Islamic caliphate and is banned in several countries in Central Asia. Supporters insist it is a nonviolent group persecuted by corrupt governments. "Proscribing it will be counterproductive," said Faradhi. "It will give a green light to despotic leaders in the Muslim world to silence political dissenters."
Meanwhile, three men were scheduled to appear in court Saturday charged with failing to disclose information about the whereabouts of a suspect in the failed July 21 London bomb attacks. The Metropolitan Police said Shadi Sami Abdel Gadir, 22, Omar Almagboul, 20, and Mohamed Kabashi, 23, were charged under the Terrorism Act with withholding information that they "knew or believed might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension, prosecution or conviction" of a terrorist suspect. Three other people already face similar charges, including the wife and sister-in-law of suspected bomber Hamdi Issac, who is being held in Rome.
A postscript...
I had to go out before I'd finished my train of thought on this article, specifically the part about how "the measures could jeopardize national unity in Britain."
I think I've made the point before that "unity" can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. A common assessment of national purpose is a good thing. But if I step outside and see my next door neighbor, grab her by the neck, throw her to the ground and begin copulating, she and I have achieved a certain unity of purpose. She's still being raped. If I stop by the liquor store to buy a bottle of underpriced champagne and stick my trusty .38 in the cashier's face and holler "gimme your dough!" we've achieved a certain unity of purpose as he's handing over all the money. He's still being robbed. There are times when a certain amount of difference of opinion is good, even if it degenerates into a domestic altercation complete with throwing crockery and calling names. That's because sometimes one side of an argument is right and the other side is wrong. Those who're right have an obligation to stick to their principles, regardless of whether the other side is jumping up and down and rolling its eyes and calling bad names.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 10:13 ||
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#1
Some wit should propose that all British clerics be licensed, pointing out that CofE, Catholic, and Jewish clerics are licensed already. Remember that being "clergy" entails a lot more than preaching a sermon. Most of it is financial, managerial, counseling, etc., all of which are generally licensed in the secular world. This would, of course, result in the immediate arrest of clerics involved in unlawful use of monies provided to them.
#3
Ok, apart from the usual BS of alienation, there's one thing that really ticks me off - this 1.8 million muslims (last I heard it was 1.6 million, it seems to fluctuate all the time).
Indian - 1.05 million, Pakistani - 747k, Bangladeshi - 283k, other asian - 247k. Mixed race is about 670k.
Now the stats say that 90% of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are Muslim, with about 10% of the Indians as well. Mixed race is about 10% Muslim, so that makes 1.2 million max. So where's the other 600k from?
Now there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but I'd rather believe them than the words of a politician who is a well known as a profligate opportunist.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 11:15 Comments ||
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Critics warn new anti-terror plans could alienate British Muslims
One can only hope!
Enough to leave, maybe?
(Nah, I didn't think so either.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/07/2005 11:18 Comments ||
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#5
Simple solution: have those alienated Muslims become Pakistani Muslims, living in Pakistan of course and problem solved.
#8
Problem is that "Pakistani Muslims" would want a "pure" state of their own within the United Kingdom.
This is the very ethos of Pakistan.
Read the article by MJ Ackbar in the opinion thread.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 12:24 Comments ||
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#9
Tony, what about Somalis, Algerians, Arabs, ???
Posted by: leader of the pack ||
08/07/2005 12:59 Comments ||
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#10
LotP - the stats page shows 'Other' as 230k, which should include all the ones you've mentioned. I don't think we have many Algerians here, but I could be wrong.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 13:04 Comments ||
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#11
And of course JFM has nailed it in one.
We ought to set a book up on the first European country to start mass deportations - my money is on the Netherlands, but with the article on 'The Left' in Germany, it could be them...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 13:07 Comments ||
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#12
This is no different from our own internal problems with illegal immigrants. Most are willing to work hard, obey most of the laws of our nation, and don't cause problems. There's a minority that a) want to live on welfare, b) want to "return the Mexican territory to its legitimate owners", or c) want to deal drugs, commit crimes, and prey on society. We should keep the a crowd, and deport or exterminate the b and c crowd. The problem is, the liberal left want to lump ALL illegal immigrants under one umbrella, and force us to keep them all. The same is true with Muslims.
The things the left forgets is that the laws of a nation are there to protect the law-abiding, flag-waving, nation-loving people, not the rabble. If you don't enforce your laws, they become meaningless. As far as "alienating" the "good" Muslims, if they're offended by the police cracking down on the rabble, then they're part of the problem, and deserve the same treatment. We might want to also consider deporting some of the loony left that can't understand that.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 13:44 Comments ||
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#13
Let me correct myself - PIMF! We should keep the hard-working, and deport a, b, and c. Not enough coffee yet this morning...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 13:49 Comments ||
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OP wrote, "The things the left forgets is that the laws of a nation are there to protect the law-abiding, flag-waving, nation-loving people, not the rabble. If you don't enforce your laws, they become meaningless."
1. In the Left's view, everyone except themselves, especially patriotic..., are rabble.
2. They HOPE to make the laws that support our national identity meaningless.
#16
I read the "Have Your Say" at the BBC on this topic just as it was starting. There were plenty of Muslims there saying "It's about time!", "deport the bastards", "too little to late", "I am a British Muslim, send these nut jobs packing." No one seems to need to hit these folks with a clue bat.
Do I see some major under reporting of this sentiment has gone on in the UK press perhaps? If so then how about the US press? Apparently some Muslims have been warning the UK government, for years in fact. I wonder if the US government has done the same, because they âare the wrong peopleâ as in, not CAIR. Is it the same in the US as the UK? If it is, who's invisible hand is at work in the press? That "moderate Muslim" may not be a fictional being at all. They may just be getting ignored or misrepresented. Topic we have and will continue to debate here.
I still am taking a wait and see attitude to find out if Blair will deliver.
#17
Ah shucks! And they were assimilating so well too....
Sorry OP, I have to disagree with you on that one. I have no problem keeping the LEGAL immigrants - they have shown their resilance and real desire to become part of the United States.
I draw the line at ILLEGAL aliens. By defintion they are here in violation of Federal law. Yes they may be 'law abiding' (now) and peaceful, just want to work and earn a wage, and the like. If they want to stay here they should have to go through the same process as anyone else desiring to come here legally fron anyone else - England, Philippines, Japan, Russa, India, etc... They should not get special treatment.
We should *never* reward them for breaking the law . We tried that and it only encourage more illegal aliens.
If we need the workforce then change the law to allow more LEGAL immigration. This will both filter the immigrants (background checks, medical checks, etc...), protect immigrants from those who would exploit their status (slave wages, etc..), and increase the value of 'U.S. citizenship'.
#18
It would be nice to believe that SPoD, but I simply don't buy what comes out of the BBC anymore.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 17:18 Comments ||
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#19
Hell I wish we would do that here stateside! Our country needs to rid itself of the terrorists too.
I don't feel that you should give in to the muslims to be politically correct on this. It's more important to be safe.
I like Blair's earlier comment, if you don't like it here leave.
CFool, I agree.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 17:52 Comments ||
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One month to the day after the London bombings that claimed 56 lives, police have charged their first key suspect in a failed attempt two weeks later to repeat the attacks. Yassin Hassan Omar, 24, a Somali living in north London, will appear before a judge in a high-security prison charged with attempted murder, conspiracy and possession of explosives, the Metropolitan Police said in a statement. He had been identified as a prime suspect in an attempt to bomb the Underground railway at Warren Street in central London on 21 July as three others tried to do the same elsewhere in the capital.
Omar was the first to be charged with a direct role in the bombing attempt. Six others have been charged with the lesser crime of failing to reveal information to police, including three men in their early 20s who appeared in court on Saturday.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 09:59 ||
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Edited for Length
The undercover reporter, who has a Muslim background, first approached the group as a potential convert in June, three weeks before the first London attack. Posing as a university graduate who was disaffected because he could not find a job, he introduced himself to members of the Saviour Sect who ran a stall handing out leaflets on the Whitechapel Road, east London. The sect and its interchangeable sister organisation, Al-Ghuraaba, were created after Bakri claimed to have closed down his militant extremist group Al-Muhajiroun last October. The sect came to prominence during the general election in April when it launched an intimidatory campaign against fellow Muslims to stop them voting. They were captured on film yelling and attacking members at a meeting of the mainstream Muslim Council of Britain. George Galloway, the Respect party MP for Bethnal Green, east London, claimed that they made death threats against him when they disrupted one of his election campaign meetings, shouting him down as a âfalse prophetâ. At the time Bakri denied any connection to the sect and he has continued â publicly at least â to keep his distance from it. But members openly talked of him as their spiritual leader when our reporter first approached them.
They invited the reporter to attend one of their meetings that evening. It was to be the first of many lectures and sermons that he attended. As he entered the entrance hall of the red-brick YMCA building in Beckton he was met initially with suspicion. Abdul Muhid, one of the sectâs leaders, questioned him closely. Within minutes Muhid, 22, was explaining that most new recruits were former heroin addicts who had found salvation. Another man, Nasser, in his early twenties with a wispy henna-speckled beard, implored our reporter to âunlearnâ the brand of Islam that he had been taught as a child and to adopt a new approach. It was important to be unemployed, Nasser said, as taking a job would contribute to the kuffar system. He said he was receiving a jobseekerâs allowance and justified this by saying the prophet Muhammad also lived off the state and attacked it at the same time. âAll money belongs to Allah anyway,â he said. There were other ways to opt out. âAll the brothers drive without insurance,â Nasser said proudly.
The following afternoon the reporter witnessed an Asian man being beaten by members of the Saviour Sect for âinsultingâ their version of Islam. The victim had struck up an argument with one of the group at the market stall. When he threw a leaflet to the ground he was punched in the face and a fight started. Up to seven members of the sect jumped on the man and began kicking him as he lay on the floor. A late intervention by one of the other stallholders gave him the opportunity to escape â his face swollen and bleeding. Later that day it emerged that the man who had been assaulted had been a member of the moderate Young Muslim Organisation and was also a supporter of Gallowayâs Respect party. One of the sect told the reporter that âthe brothersâ needed to calm down and stop attracting attention to themselves in public. âThey should have taken him round the corner and beaten him there,â he said...
ON July 3, Sheikh Omar Brooks of Al-Ghuraaba addressed the group at its Saturday night lecture. The 30-year-old, who comes from a Caribbean background and used to work as an electrician, converted to Islam after coming under Bakriâs spell. He claimed that he had had âmilitary trainingâ in Pakistan. Occasionally sipping a can of Fanta and gesticulating wildly, he declared: âI am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist.â It was not just our reporterâs group who were present. Schoolchildren in T-shirts bearing the words âmujaheddinâ and âwarriors of Allahâ listened intently as Brooks said he did not wish to die âlike an old womanâ in bed. âI want to be blown into pieces,â he declared, âwith my hands in one place and my feet in another.â He told the audience that it was a Muslimâs duty to stay apart from the rest of society: âNever mix with them. Never let your children play with their children.â He added: âThis hall is like our fortress against the kuffar and the so-called Muslims like the McB (the Muslim Council of Britain).â Warming to his theme, he said: âThey will build bridges and we will break them; they will build tall buildings and we will bring them down.â The audience rippled with laughter at the obvious reference to September 11, 2001.
Nasserâs brother, âMr Islamâ â believed to be Islam Uddin â had started the speeches that evening with his own fiery rhetoric. He told the audience that Islam was a religion of violence and that Muhammad was the âprophet of slaughter, not peaceâ. He said Muslims must not be defeatist as âeven now the brothers in Iraq are sending British, American and Iraqi colluders back in body bagsâ. As his three-year-old son played at his side, he launched into a bitter racist attack. The Jews, he said, were âthe most disgusting and greedy people on earthâ.
During the twice-weekly lectures and Friday prayers, men who had struggled to find jobs and, in some cases, had drifted into drug abuse, were told that as true believers they were better than non-Muslims. âThe toe of the Muslim brothers is better than all the kuffar on the earth,â Bakri said in one sermon. âIslam is superior, nothing supersedes it and the Muslim is superior.â Other regular speakers claimed that Islam was constantly under attack in Britain â and that the best form of defence was attack. One, who called himself Zachariah, claimed that the kuffar were trying to âwipe out (Muslims) from the face of the earthâ. He implored the group âto cover the land with our blood through martyrdom, martyrdom, martyrdomâ. Zachariah preached that the non-believers were dispensable: âTheyâre kuffar. Theyâre not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state.â Another preacher, Abu Yahya, who is also reported to go by the name of Abdul Rahman Saleem, argued that Muslims were constantly being subjected to derogatory names by non-believers in an effort to demotivate them. The solution was aggression. He said: âIt says in the Koran that we must try as much as we can to terrorise the enemy . . . we terrorise those people who terrorise us.â His message to Britain was: âBecause youâre a genuine democracy, all of you are liable.â Rest of the article at the link
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/07/2005 01:00 ||
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Geoffrey Bindman, a leading human rights solicitor, argued that Brooksâs apparent support for suicide bombings and his call for Muslims to âinstil terror into the heartsâ of non-believers might not be âspecificâ enough to warrant criminal proceedings.
Seems pretty clear to me that if Britain is to survive, it's going to have to rid itself of these hateful, parasitic, racist, xenophobic, murderous monsters. If the law doesn't define their behavior as criminal, then change the law so it does.
I spent about a hundred bucks on books about Islam to try to understand the nature of the threat we face-- and all I had to do was read this one article.
It's either them, or us.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/07/2005 5:23 Comments ||
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#3
This is not news, but this IS reporting in its finest and most courageous. Kudos to this brave reporter: he must have a pair the size of bowling balls.
#4
Memo to all journalists:
This is how it is done. Please emulate.
The Management.
Posted by: N guard ||
08/07/2005 8:56 Comments ||
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#5
Dave D. - we're not at the "them or us" phase yet, but articles like this only serve to open our eyes to what the situation really is.
My worry is what happens once the football season gets fully underway. There's no way that everyone going into a stadium can be checked for bombs etc and as a lot of these matches are shown live, the propaganda value would be immense. What would happen after that is anyones guess...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 10:48 Comments ||
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#6
What would happen after that is anyones guess...
I would hazzard a guess that the "football hooligans" would do a job on the next Muslims they came across. The Muslim situation is the same situation we have with lawyers: Either you (the rest of the lawyers/the rest of the Muslims) control your unruly, arrogant, and out-of-control members, or the rest of the civilized world will impose its regulation upon you. You have one chance. Failure won't be pretty.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 14:24 Comments ||
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#7
This article is a keeper. I intend to hard-copy distribute this to all the doubters I know. The scumbags in this article truly deserve the title of Islamofascists. Their power-hungry hypocrisy is stunning and perfectly exposed here by their own words and deeds. Keep the light shining on these cock roaches and watch them run. A hearty well done to the undercover reporter who risked his life to tell the facts every Imam does not want us to know. Every Islamofascist group in the UK now has to wonder if every word and deed is being watched. They will wonder which of their comrades is about to betray them for what they really are. Let that eat at them. And it was all done without government action. Chalk one up for the good guys.
Two senior al-Qaeda operatives in Saudi Arabia made money transfers and used coded text messages to communicate with suspected terrorists in Britain before last month's attacks in London, according to officials in the kingdom. The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead. Younis Mohammed Ibrahim al-Hayari, allegedly al-Qaeda's leader in Saudi Arabia, was killed in Riyadh three weeks ago and Abdel Karim al-Mejati died in a shoot-out in the central al-Qassim region in April. Saudi security officials suspect both men of involvement in the attacks in London on July 7 and 21 and say that al-Qaeda is definitely operating in Britain. "It's beyond doubt they're active in your country," said one.
Huge amounts of chemicals and other bomb-making materials were found at al-Hayari's hideout. Al-Mejati is said to have planned the train bombings in Madrid in March last year. The Sunday Telegraph revealed last week that Scotland Yard was investigating evidence that the two waves of terrorist attacks in London were also planned in Saudi Arabia. In an exclusive interview, Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador to London, said this week that his country had warned Britain less than four months ago that such an attack was pending. Scotland Yard is investigating who received the coded messages and money - transferred from Saudi to Britain via businesses at both ends before July this year. A Saudi security adviser said: "We are trying to establish whether the money was directly linked to the individuals who carried out either the first or the second sets of bombings in London. The messages and the money transfers were highly professional. They were using SIM cards for six hours and then throwing them away."
Last week The Sunday Telegraph revealed that Hussain Osman, 27, the suspected failed Shepherd's Bush bomber, had called a mobile phone in Saudi Arabia shortly before his arrest. Saudi security officials said Osman was phoning his parents, of Ethiopian extraction, while travelling by Eurostar from London to Rome. They are believed to have been living in the Jeddah area, near the Red Sea, for several years. The call was monitored by a British intelligence agency as Osman spoke first to his mother and then to his father. His parents are not suspected of involvement in terrorism.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005 00:00 ||
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"The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead."
That takes care of the trail back. But killing your cut-outs has to be tough on your organizational capabilities if you do it on every mission.
TERRORISTS could be preparing to use women and children as suicide bombers in further attacks on trains and other soft targets in London, internal Scotland Yard documents have warned. Official âstop and searchâ guidance just issued to thousands of Metropolitan police officers indicates that police fear the bombers may be planning to change their tactics. âTerrorists will try to use our actions against us and will adapt their methods (use women or even children),â the document states. The paper contains advice to officers exercising their powers under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The rules govern the conduct of the 6,000 officers who have been deployed across the capital to stop a possible third terror cell following on from the July 7 atrocities and the failed July 21 attacks.
The paper was released this weekend on the order of Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, in an effort to defuse the row over claims that police are singling out Asian and black men during street searches. Under the rules, Met officers have been told to avoid âracial profilingâ and ânot to focus on specific groupsâ. The advice adds: âBe aware that there is no specific racial, ethnic, sexual or religious profile for terrorists.â Blair insisted the new advice was not dictated by political correctness. âEverythingâs got to be intelligence-based,â he said. âIf we said the only people to be searched are young males who are of Caribbean or Asian or north African appearance it would be handing the objectives to the terrorists and they would immediately change their tactics.â He was talking after Ian Johnston, chief constable of the British Transport police, which guards the Tube and train network, suggested his officers had been told to single out Muslim and African men as the most likely terrorist suspects. âWe should not waste time searching old white ladies,â he said.
The disclosure of the Yardâs guidance comes as transport police draw up plans for elite âsniper squadsâ to combat the threat of suicide bombers. Between 150 and 200 firearms specialists are to be recruited as part of a nationwide drive to stop further attacks on the transport system. The unit will be modelled on Scotland Yardâs SO19 firearms unit, whose officers shot dead Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent Brazilian, after mistaking him for a suicide bomber 16 days ago.
The move will see armed officers regularly patrolling the Underground and the rail network for the first time. Crack sniper squads and close-quarter âhit teamsâ such as the one that killed Menezes will be on permanent stand-by to deal with suspected suicide bombers.
Blair said he planned to recruit several hundred more armed officers to bolster the number already licensed to carry guns. He is also in talks with the Home Office for an extra 500 or 600 officers to boost the Metâs counter-terrorist capability. The move would effectively double the size of the anti-terrorist branch. Blair also repeated his call for a national border control agency to make it more difficult for terrorists to enter and leave the country. The Sunday Times revealed last week that Hussain Osman â also known as Hamdi Isaac â one of the men arrested over the failed July 21 attacks, had managed to leave Britain on the Eurostar train.
Yassin Omar, 24, has been charged over one of the failed attempts to bomb three London Tube trains and a bus on July 21. He faces charges of conspiracy to murder and possession of an explosive substance in connection with the bombing attempt at Warren Street station. Omar, from New Southgate, London, will appear before Bow Street magistrates tomorrow.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
This war requires a lot of clarity.
For instance, while Jean Charles de Menezes was a Brazilian shot dead because he was mistakenly and through his own stupid behaviour feared to be a suicide bomber, he was most certainly not an "innocent".
Being an illegal alien and having a fake visa stamp in one's passport is in a league with how terrorists operate. That's not --yet-- cause for being shot, but it's very far from being innocent.
#2
âIf we said the only people to be searched are young males who are of Caribbean or Asian or north African appearance it would be handing the objectives to the terrorists and they would immediately change their tactics.â
Err, come again? There *is* a profile for these 'people' - they were all of Caribbean, Asian or north African appearance. None of them were little old ladies from Worthing for example, but that would be 'racial profiling' for example.
And this "Be aware that there is no specific racial, ethnic, sexual or religious profile for terrorists." is just pathetic.
This is just another nail in the multi-culti coffin.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 4:54 Comments ||
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#3
Unfortunately, the pigs are not above using physically and mentally handicapped to be turned into human bombs if the Iraqi election is any indication of the uncivilized behavior of these creatures.
#4
It's a good thing that the fashion of the moment calls for tight shirts on young women. That eliminates at least one group from needing closer scrutiny.
#5
TW, You seem to have forgotten the 62 year old grandmother convicted of assualt when the TSA obergruppeninspector decided to cop a long feel. Or maybe the blouse wasn't tight enough.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/07/2005 10:14 Comments ||
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#6
True, Mrs. D. My memory is a bit porous these days, I'm afraid. Still, think of all those other young ladies, who did not get such a close inspection.
AN undercover investigation has caught leaders of a radical Islamic group inciting young British Muslims to become terrorists and praising the Tube bombers as âthe fantastic fourâ. A Sunday Times reporter spent two months as a recruit inside the Saviour Sect to reveal for the first time how the extremist group promotes hatred of ânon-believersâ and encourages its followers to commit acts of violence including suicide bombings.
This, friends, is what real reporters do.
The reporter witnessed one of the sectâs leading figures, Sheikh Omar Brooks, telling a young audience, including children, that it was the duty of Muslims to be terrorists and boasting, just days before the July 7 attacks, that he wanted to die as a suicide bomber. After the attacks that claimed 52 lives, another key figure, Zachariah, justified them by saying that the victims were not âinnocentâ people because they did not abide by strict Islamic laws. In the immediate aftermath the sectâs leader, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said: âFor the past 48 hours Iâm very happy.â Two weeks later he referred to the bombers as the âfantastic fourâ.
The evidence compiled by The Sunday Times in hours of transcripts and tapes will lend weight to moves, announced last week by Tony Blair, to proscribe such organisations for providing a breeding ground for would-be terrorists. The attorney-generalâs office said last night it would investigate the recent comments by a number of Islamic radicals with a view to prosecution.
The Saviour Sect was established 10 months ago when its predecessor group Al-Muhajiroun was disbanded after coming under close scrutiny by the authorities. Its members meet in secret in halls, followersâ homes and parks. They are so opposed to the British state that they see it as their duty to make no economic contribution to the nation. One member warned our undercover reporter against getting a job because it would be contributing to the kuffar (non-Muslim) system. Instead, the young follower, Nasser, who receives £44 job seekersâ allowance a week, said it was permissible to âlive off benefitsâ, just as the prophet Mohammed had lived off the state while attacking it at the same time. Even paying car insurance was seen as supporting the system. âAll the (Saviour Sect) brothers drive without insurance,â he said.
The reporter became a member of the sect three weeks before the July 7 bombings. From the start he was taught that it was his duty to destroy the kuffar. Moderate Muslims who did not believe in the overthrow of the British government and its replacement by an Islamic state were held in equal disdain. Within days of joining, he witnessed seven Saviour Sect members beating up a member of the moderate Young Muslim Organisation in an East End street because they believed he had insulted their version of Islam.
Last week Omar Brooks stirred controversy with televised comments, but they were carefully chosen to avoid appearing to incite violence. On Saturday, July 2 he had been more forthright. Speaking to a group of teenagers and families, he declared it was imperative for Muslims to âinstil terror into the hearts of the kuffarâ and added: âI am a terrorist. As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist.â The 30-year-old, who claims to have had military training in Pakistan, said he did not want to go to Allah while sleeping in his bed âlike an old womanâ. Instead: âI want to be blown into pieces with my hands in one place and my feet in another.â
In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: âYes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.â Yesterday Bakri said he had no connections to a group in east London but said that he did attend prayers and preach to up to 15 people. He denied using the words âfantastic fourâ.
Well, Bakri, in the words of one of the real Fantastic Four; "It's clobbering time!".
Posted by: Steve ||
08/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Arrest him and execute him, fast. Rinse, repeat with all Moslem leaders who --like their prophet Mohammed and Omar Brooks-- advocate taqiya, sharia, and jihad against the non-Moslems.
#2
Why should we tolerate that. Round all of them up and send them back.. Tony Blair said the gloves are off, now its time to get rid of these parasites.
All the (Saviour Sect) brothers drive without insurance,â They are a bunch of LOSER's that have found a cause, they would be failures in any society, then they read the Koran and all of a sudden have a purpose, the exciting so called holy war. If they had an ounce of intelligence, they would see that everything they read is bullshit.. A bullet is the only solution for these people.
Posted by: I P Daley ||
08/07/2005 4:34 Comments ||
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#3
my comment to the duplicate above is the same: This is REAL reporting.
DUBLIN â Three men linked to the Irish Republican Army who were convicted of training rebels in Colombia have returned surreptitiously to Ireland after eight months on the run from South America. RTE, the Irish national broadcasters, carried an interview with one of the fugitives, Jim Monaghan. He said all three had returned to Ireland recently, "and, as you can imagine, a lot of people in a lot of countries had to help us."
And we'd like their names ...
Monaghan, Niall Connolly and Martin McCauley were arrested in August 2001 as they were trying to board a flight out of Colombia after spending about 18 months with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, Colombia's major rebel group known by the acronym FARC. The trio were charged with training rebels to make and deploy IRA-style weaponry, including truck-mounted mortars.
#1
I heard of a little announcement from the IRA recently... do you think the three will be going back now and teaching FARC how to disarm? end{sarcasm}
Is "insurgent education" going to be one of the IRA's new businesses? I wonder how much the IRA got paid for running the training school.
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 16:13 Comments ||
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#2
The weirdest thing about this story is this:
"and, as you can imagine, a lot of people in a lot of countries had to help us."
I mean, it's really drawing attention to yourself isn't it?
As for the 'disarmament', I'll believe that when I see it.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 16:39 Comments ||
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I generally skim past the avian flu/swine flu stories but this one caught my eye...
Anthrax has killed one person and infected 12 in northeast China, state media reported on Sunday, in the latest outbreak of animal-borne disease to hit the country in recent weeks.
Is there a standard multiplier for death tolls released by the ChiComs?
Anthrax, a disease caused by spore-forming bacteria normally contracted through contact with infected livestock, struck on July 29 outside Shenyang, in Liaoning province, Xinhua news agency said on its Web site, www.xinhuanet.com. By Friday, no new cases had been reported in the town of Damintun for five consecutive days, and the lives and work of people in the area have returned to normal, Xinhua said. Anthrax thrives in grazing livestock such as cattle, goats and sheep, which can ingest anthrax spores from the soil. Infections were isolated to Damintun and two surrounding villages, Xinhua said. Eleven victims had been treated in hospital and were recovering, it said. Livestock in the affected areas had been inoculated with anti-anthrax vaccine or culled and safely buried, it said. Local officials had carefully checked all local meat sales points and banned people from bringing sick animals to markets. Echoing an ongoing outbreak of a pig disease that has killed at least 39 people in southwestern China, all the victims in Damintun were infected through slaughtering, handling or eating infected cows. Snipped all the swine flu stuff. Read if you wish...
#2
Eee-yah. Man, this is scary stuff. And the Japanese Anthrax cover? Weird.
Livestock in the affected areas had been inoculated with anti-anthrax vaccine or culled and safely buried, it said. Local officials had carefully checked all local meat sales points and banned people from bringing sick animals to markets.
HAHAHA yeah right. Local officials did everything they were supposed to do. Uh-huh.
#3
And don't forget the corrupt government doctor/official who blackmarkets the vaccine to the farmers, who then cut the stuff lowering its effectiveness so that the disease survives and mutates into a resistant variety. Oh, joy.
I just hope that when it really get serious, we don't get that humanitarian crowd demanding we compromise our vaccines by shipping them into that Chinese circus.
Posted by: Oztralian [aka] God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 11:38 Comments ||
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#5
Slock, that's a pretty nasty scenario. The trouble is that it's totally believable - and the outcome is going to be horrendous.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/07/2005 14:37 Comments ||
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#6
I raised pigs as a 4H project in the early 1960's (yeah, I'm as old as dirt). It used to cost me about $8 to innoculate each pig with all the vaccines and antibiotics necessary to keep them safe and healthy. Surprisingly, the price today is only about $16 for the same innoculations. It cost even less to innoculate our two milk cows and the mule we used to plow our garden.
The problem in China is the same problem you have in any other controlled economy - the people raising livestock only do what they're told to do, and the government assumes that it will lose x percent any, so why waste money on expensive vaccines. Lives are cheap - nobody in government cares about the lives of the people. The result is stories like these.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/07/2005 15:22 Comments ||
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#7
Based on the SARS epidemic, doubling the death toll should be about right.
The head of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Ameer Ali says he is happy to meet Prime Minister John Howard to discuss the threat of terrorism.
Mr Howard wants to meet Australia's Muslim leaders within the next few weeks to enlist their help in the fight against terrorism. He says British authorities may have been able to warn of the attacks if they had better information from those closest to the bombers. "Their communities must have known something of it," he told the ABC's Insiders program.
He says the meeting will be held before a summit of state and territory leaders on Australia's response to the London bombings.
Dr Ali says Muslim leaders have been keen to meet with Mr Howard for some time to discuss how they can help prevent terrorism activity in Australia. "I don't know what he has in mind. We don't know the details of what he wants to talk to us, but nobody is trying to sabotage him," he said. "Nobody wants to undermine his authority. We want to assist him but let us discuss how we can help him."
Mr Howard says there was a failure of intelligence ahead of the London bombings. He says that preventing the same happening here requires a two pronged approach. "We have to try and get inside the communities where these potentially hostile groups may be and we need the help of these communities," he said.
The Federal Opposition leader has welcomed the idea but says the Government needs to show more leadership in the form of practical measures such as more sniffer dogs, better screening at ports and more security at airports.
Dr Ali says all levels of government could gain by meeting with the community. "Having a good relationship with the community, it's what has the government lose," he said. "In fact it should be done not just at the Commonwealth level but at the state level.
"There's nothing to lose for any party by having a constant dialogue with the community."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 03:46 ||
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#1
practical measures such as more sniffer dogs, better screening at ports and more security at airports
None of these expensive measures helps when the threat is home grown. Is the Opposition leader trying to look like a fool, or does it come naturally?
The link to this article is um... how do i say it..... ? I'm drunk and i copied & pasted the article but closed the site i got it from [lmao]... I'm pretty sure it was from abc.net.au or news.com.au [somewhere] sorry !
Prime Minister John Howard is to host an anti-terrorism summit with Muslim leaders.
Mr Howard is expected to write to the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils and senior Muslim figures this week proposing the meeting, Melbourne's The Age newspaper says.
The forum will include other government ministers but a date, venue and invitation list have not been finalised.
The agenda is expected to cover issues such as inflammatory religious books and websites and comments by radical clerics that are seen as condoning or encouraging terrorism.
It may also look at restricting visas for radical overseas clerics and improving the training of imams, the newspaper said.
The summit was suggested two weeks ago by the Federation of Islamic Councils.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 03:49 ||
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You aren't supposed to read the news while drunk, silly! Go enjoy yourself properly, and come back later.
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - Detainees at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have clashed at least 16 times, including one man who claims he has been beaten by fellow prisoners because he practices a different form of Islam than the majority at the camp.
"Apostate!"
"Oh yeah? Put 'em up!"
None of the incidents resulted in life-threatening injuries to the detainees at the center for U.S. terror suspects, according to the documents, which were obtained by The Associated Press under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
In one incident, two detainees fought after one accused the other of lying to military interrogators about him. In another, detainees threw water and feces at each other repeatedly in a dispute after one sang during the evening Muslim prayer call. In a third, a fight broke out between two men after one accused the other of insulting his family.
"Yer mudder wears a polka-dot burqa!"
"You swine, youse can't talk about my Ma like dat!"
The accounts come from 51 pages of documents that include reports by guards of incidents from November 2003 to May 2005 in which detainees attacked other detainees at the high-security base in eastern Cuba. Military censors have blacked out names and other identifying details of detainees, U.S. troops or other witnesses, and some of the accounts are vague.
It is not clear from the documents whether the detainees were disciplined, but officials at the Navy base have said that inmates who break rules can be segregated, placed in more restrictive settings or lose access to such comforts as chess boards provided by the military.
In a case that prompted an investigation, one detainee told military authorities that he was beaten by inmates and had urine thrown at him because he is a Shiite Muslim and most of the approximately 500 other prisoners are Sunni.
Never saw that coming, did he?
Authorities at Guantanamo found that he had been in a fight - in which he had injuries to his lip, front teeth, cheek and ribs - but they concluded there was no evidence to support his allegation that he has been repeatedly targeted because he is Shiite, according to the documents.
Another inmate claimed that he was beaten and threatened by other inmates because "high-ranking" detainees believed he was a spy. Military authorities found no evidence of any assaults involving the detainee and concluded there was no evidence to back his claims, the documents show.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 00:48 ||
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and most of the approximately 500 other prisoners are Sunni.
EFL
A new range of bombs more sophisticated than those being deployed with murderous impact against American forces in Iraq has been designed in neighbouring Iran and smuggled across the border to insurgent groups, according to American military and intelligence officials. The new devices have been manufactured to destroy military vehicles by using shaped charges that target the armour in a specific direction. Most improvised explosive devices (IEDs) made from stockpiles of Iraqi missiles and shells have previously relied simply on their firepower rather than a targeting mechanism. American commanders fear that Iraqi bomb-makers will soon learn how to make the weapons.
Insurgents started to use the devices about two months ago, but last week a big shipment was captured in north-eastern Iraq as they were being shipped in from Iran. Pentagon officials say they have no evidence of Iranian government involvement, but America has regularly complained that Teheran is interfering in Iraqi affairs and that fighters and weaponry are being smuggled across the border. "The devices we're seeing now have been machined. There is evidence of some sophistication," a military official told The New York Times. Another senior officer said: "These are among the most sophisticated and most lethal devices we've seen. It's very serious." Sounds like another good casus bellum to me
#3
As much as I would love to see Iran get what they have coming to them, it just isn't happening. I don't know why our leaders continue to act like pussies when it comes to Iran, and Saudi Arabia. We are putting ZERO pressure on Iran to do anything other than aid terrorist scum, and build nukes, in front of our face. We know we can't count on the UN, we know we can't count on the EU, and we certainly know we can't count on the mythical "moderate" muslim to appear and stop them...what in the hell are we waiting for? How many more IEDs, how much more cash, and how many more terrorists have to be sent into Iraq from the neighboring shitholes, before we actually kick the doors in on these diaper heads? I'm not saying pull out of Iraq, because those ungrateful bitches would last about 2 weeks, before being toppled by the enemy. But at the very least, and I mean very least, decapitate one of the neighboring governments that allow this shit to continue. Do something to fight back. If it wasn't for our brave warriors that continue to look these terrorists in the eye and pull the trigger everyday, I would think we are on the road to becoming France-lite. God Bless those Men and Women.
If I didn't live in a country that actually enforced the law, I would start chopping these diaper heads up myself. Eventually the freedom loving people of this world are going to be pushed far enough to say "fuck this shit", and start taking matters into their own hands.
#4
Destro - our advice may not reach others, yet I feel most Americans would need little pumping up (clips of hostages and Carter dithering) to get the back up on smacking Iran. Causus Belli?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 18:25 Comments ||
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#5
So, if they're factory made I guess we can stop calling them "improvised". That's a dangerous game the Mad Mullah's are playing and I hope they bare the consequences.
#6
I assume we've got quite a few technical "casus bellum" with Iran, just as we did with Iraq. They don't seem to have a lot of popular reverb, though. Of course, I work in Madison, which isn't exactly a hotbed of patriotism.
And I'm not expert enough to know if we actually can afford to take Iran on just yet. Sure we can pull troops in from Korea and other spots, but can we equip them without sacrificing our position in Iraq? Are any of our experts on the subject allowed to comment? Are lots of special forces being trained in farsi?
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 20:31 Comments ||
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JERUSALEM (Aug. 7) - Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu resigned from his post Sunday to protest next week's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and part of the West Bank, a ministry spokesman said.
Netanyahu, seen as Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's biggest political rival within the Likud Party, submitted a letter of resignation during the weekly Cabinet meeting Sunday, said the Finance Ministry spokesman, Eli Yosef. The resignation will take effect within 48 hours.
After Netanyahu submitted his resignation, the Cabinet gave its final approval to the first stage of the Gaza pullout - the dismantling of the isolated Netzarim, Kfar Darom and Morag settlements. The vote was 17-5.
Israel plans to begin removing some 9,000 settlers from their homes, starting in days. All 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank are marked for dismantling.
Netanyahu, a former prime minister and political hard-liner, has long been conflicted over the Gaza withdrawal. He has voted in favor of the pullout in the Cabinet but also tried to torpedo the plan in parliamentary maneuvers.
Netanyahu is expected to challenge Sharon for party leadership ahead of the next election.
The Tel Aviv stock Exchange's Maof index dropped nearly 3 percent within minutes after the resignation was announced. Netanyahu led efforts to streamline the Israeli economy, often adopting harsh measures to implement his austerity plan.
Sunday's Cabinet vote was the first in a series to approve the dismantling of specific settlements.
''It is a difficult, complex but very important process for Israel, but will be implemented as the Cabinet and the Knesset decided,'' Sharon said of the withdrawal.
Opponents of the pullout, scheduled to begin Aug. 15, have been trying to torpedo the plan, holding mass protests, smuggling sympathizers into the condemned settlements and calling on soldiers to disobey orders to evacuate the settlements.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 11:14 ||
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#2
Excellent move. It's ironic that this announcement is made a day after an indepth interview with the JPost where one of the questions asked to Bibi stated, (I'm paraphrasing) "If you are so strongly against this pullout, why don't you resign?" If you have some time, check out this interview..
I have been against the Gaza pullout from the very beginning. IMHO, this pullout is not going to happen. The God of Israel will not allow it. All the proof I need is below. BTW, the OT is full of statements like the one below. I am not going to hog up Fred's BW with 50 quotes. Also, as you can see below, not even the Israel govt. has the right to split the land of Israel. Believe it or deny it, it's up to you.
Ezekiel 36 "....v.10 The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt....you will never again deprive them of their children. 22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations including Israel U.K., and U.S. will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
#3
I think Hebraic scholars would agree with me that what priests say and what actually happens are two different things. The only resolution for the paradox is that, if there is a God, then he doesn't muss around. He Darwinistically selects who is going to succeed and fail, and then they do so. Repeatedly. Compare al-Qaeda, who say God is on their side, with the US military, who says no such thing. By EVERY indicator, God supports the US military that almost totally ignore him, giving them endless support and encouragement, over those hyper-religious groveling nut jobs who spend much of their lives praying to Him. Now compare this to Israel. God has been working overtime on behalf of Ariel Sharon, allowing him to triumph over dozens of political enemies both inside and outside of Israel. God approves of the wall, in that it has radically reduced the number of bombings within Israel proper. God does NOT like Benjamin Netanyahu, or at least not recently, because over and over again, God makes him look foolish and takes away his political power. And, more than anything else, God really HATES the Palestinians. I mean, really. Just look at them. God treats them like dogs. God does NOT love them. He spends inordinate amounts of time making their leaders cruel, incompetant, greedy, treacherous, deceitful and stupid. And BOY does he punish them with leaders like that. Once again, whether you believe in God or not, several rules apply. Number one: God helps those who help themselves. Number two: God hates those who step in number two. Number three: God likes people who improve and change themselves and their nation for the better; He hates peasants who live in ignorance and superstitition. Number four: God actually prefers that you leave Him alone; He will reward you if you take responsibility for your own life. And, number five: God is obvious; if you think He is subtle, He is not involved.
I disagree with some of your statements. For example, "By EVERY indicator, God supports the US military that almost totally ignore him." One, I do believe there are plenty of strong Christians in the U.S. military. Two, there are millions of people outside the military community that constantly pray for the U.S. Military. There is no way, that the U.S. Military is great as it is, without the millions of Americans praying for them week after week, including a great number of military personnel. Here is an example of what made our military the best..3 pages total
Also, I disagree especially, the part that you wrote "God actually prefers that you leave Him alone" God does not want us to leave him alone, he always wants us to have an active relationship with him.
Again, I am not imposing my views. This Israeli land battle is the Lord's and I side with the Lord. But, I will clearly find what God has in mind, in mid-August. If my opinion is wrong, I have no problem admitting it.
#5
If they want to stay and get slaughtered, let them stay. People who so recklessly risk their wives and children when they don't have to and other plans have been made deserve to be cleasned from the gene pool.
#6
These settlers want all of Israel to focus all of their energy on making sure that they aren't uprooted. Yeah, well your project failed. You lost the battle. Children get blown up in strollers daily and something needs to be done to stop it. Sharon did something and of course it can't please everyone - so he chose a solution that could be made to work for everyone. But these people only care that whatever is done doesn't require any sacrifice from them personlly. It's ok to sacrifice the lives of the army members that keep them safe, and the people blown up on busses because the situation can't be controlled - but the situation isn't pefect - so forget it.
Here's my solution, tell them they can stay, but the walls going up and they are on their own. Then they are no ones problem but their own.
#8
I personally assume that there's continuity between God as Being-to-be-worshipped-and-petitioned, and God as Architect-of-Nature, and proceed like a rigorous Sociologist: I find that God LOVES to get involved, AM, but only when all the i's have been dotted, the t's crossed, and it won't result in someone getting hurt. He's pretty big on consequences, and thus what you may deem "subtlety" is mostly a contentment to let natural cause-and-effect have their course.
God will be "obvious"? Perhaps, but it's no credit to the mule that he needs a two-by-four to the head for you to get his attention when the horse only needs a soft nudge to the sides...
#9
Well, as a non God-believer, I would first like to point out that there are lots of atheists in foxholes. Lots of people may pray for soldiers, and lots of soldiers may pray, but there is zero evidence that prayer, in any way, helps them to win battles and wars, historically or today, save for giving psychological solace. Instead, I would put it down to a culture that encourages the raising of warriors, and a gene pool that produces children equipped to be warriors, along with technology, education, and a national will far greater than their enemies. Now, the typical religious argument in this case would be that God is somehow slacking off right now, but that *in the future*, God will intervene and make the religious people win. That is the argument Islamists use to explain how the entire world will be Islamic by 2050, and when whole brigades of al-Qaeda and Taliban are exterminated, they are receiving a joyous reward in heaven instead of feeding ants as they appear to be doing now. They cite lengthy arcane passages in books written a millenium or two ago, as if they have *any* more relevance to what is happening right now than do cave paintings. Conversely, the opposite argument, that God somehow favors the US military, is just as facetious. No, the US is winning the war because its leaders are highly intelligent, educated and trained; it has the technology to crush the enemy; it has lots of big, strong, smart and fierce soldiers to actually do the fighting; and it also has a national *will*, based on all sorts of philosophies and a healthy dollop of revenge and common sense, to support the war back home. At not time do we need God at all to do any of this, and there is no proof that any invisible space monster intervention is directing the outcome in any way. Sorry, God believers. Keep praying in one hand and spitting in the other and I'll tell you know which one will fill up first.
#10
I like to think that God is behind my every thought, slinkling amonst my synapest causing me to type what I type. Let me tell your a secret, there is a God, AND HE HATES QWERTY KEYBOARDS AND BETTY CROCKERCRATS. Let's us now prey.
#11
I just don't see the Palies being satisfied with only the Gaza strip. I foresee them wanting more and more feeling it is due them under any and all circumstances. Since the Palies aren't very accurate with their bombs, now they will be closer for their targets. I hope the Israeli's build a strong wall.
It's sad to me that instead of the Palies seeing this area of land be given up so that there may be a peaceful settlement between them, they seem to be feeling it's deserved. I don't see a peaceful end to this at all.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 17:35 Comments ||
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#12
Jan - I agree with your conclusion. The evidence of the last ~60 yrs indicates that there will not be peace until one side is wiped out - literally. The wall is great - it has stopped many attacks, I'm sure. But they will adjust and escalate until, once again, they can kill Jews with some regularity. I believe Israel is doing what it can to defend itself -- and clarify for those who aren't willfully blind, that they have done what they can to bring peace. Once they pull out, Gaza will be nothing but concentrated Paleo hatred - no embedded Jews to worry about. That's what we refer to as a target-rich environment. The Paleo killer groups will learn what this means the hard way, I'm sure. Finally, someday the Paleos will attempt to use WMDs. When that attempt occurs, successful or not, one side will, indeed, be wiped out, I'd wager.
A suicide bomber driving an empty fuel tanker detonated his vehicle Sunday near a police station in central Iraq, killing at least two people, police said. Three Iraqi soldiers and two Oil Ministry employees were killed in two separate drive-by shootings in Baghdad, as the U.S. military announced the deaths of two American soldiers in a roadside bombing in central Iraq.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 10:12 ||
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Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday until further notice to protest recent attacks against senior legal officials. The shutdown was announced in a statement signed by judges and lawyers. Earlier in the week in Gaza City, an explosive device was detonated outside the home of former Palestinian Justice Minister Zuhair Sourani, while a separate blast damaged a wall outside the home of the Palestinian Authority's attorney general in the city, Hussein Abu Assi. Both men were appointed by parliament to investigate widespread corruption in the Palestinian Authority. Sourani resigned as overseer of judges on Saturday, saying the Palestinian Authority was not doing enough to protect him and his colleagues.
The judicial shutdown will continue until "the Palestinian Authority puts an end to the serious deterioration that has undermined the Palestinian legal system and its personnel and has escalated in the past few days, especially after the attacks," the statement said. The action dealt a blow to efforts by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas to clamp down on the lawlessness that has grown in the Palestinian areas during almost five years of fighting with Israel. The authority of Palestinian security and legal institutions has greatly diminished as the influence of militants has grown in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. In some instances, Palestinian militants have kidnapped Palestinians suspected of collaborating with Israel from courthouses during trials and killed them.
The officials also protested what they said is the lack of willingness of authorities to implement court decisions, due to international pressure. Palestinian legal officials in the Gaza Strip and West Bank on Sunday planned to discuss further steps to force the Palestinian Authority to protect them, the statement said. No suspects have been arrested in the attacks on the Sourani and Assi homes. Sourani has said he and Palestinian security know who is responsible.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 10:05 ||
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#1
The paleos have a legal system?
For what - deciding which male in the splodeydope's family gets which cut of the payment?
They don't need it for anything else, since they don't obey any laws except their law to kill Joooooos.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/07/2005 11:21 Comments ||
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#2
Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday..
It wasn't operating correctly anyway by any measure, so what's the difference?
"If Arabs killing Jews is the fault of Jews, shouldn't Jews killing Arabs be the fault of the Arabs?
Good point. My thoughts exactly.
I apologize, but let's try to stay away from using the word "Arab," in situations like this. Due to the fact that there are thousands of Arab Christians. Not every Arab is Muslim. If you don't mind, I prefer the word "Muslim" instead of "Arab."
#5
Right. Christians, since they're automatically suspect for not being Muslims, sometimes find they have to "be more Catholic than the Pope" for Palestinian causes. The Arab Nationalism theorists were disproportionately Christian (I guess it was pretty much their only hope of being treated as equal citizens).
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 20:16 Comments ||
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#6
"Ever heard of George Habash?
I certainly didn't mean that every Christian is exactly Mother Teresa. There are hunderds of Judas Iscariot's and George Habash's. In fact, there are some Judas Iscariot's at my church. There is simply no need to bundle an entire race.
An Algerian political leader has been told by a court that he would remain imprisoned pending further questioning, his son said. Ali Belhadj, the former number two in the banned Islamic Salvation Front (FIS), was arrested on 27 July after an Aljazeera television interview where he supported the resistance to the US-led forces in Iraq. "An investigating judge questioned Ali Belhadj and ordered him back to prison," Abdelkader Moghni, a former FIS leader, said. Belhadj's son Abdelfattah added: "The authorities has returned my father back to jail to complete the questioning."
Algeria's General Prosecutor Kaddour Beradja said Belhadj faced charges of "praising acts of terrorism, inciting murder and distributing subversive leaflets". Belhadj told Aljazeera in a telephone interview: "I congratulate the mujahidin fighting in Iraq and ask God to help them in the face of occupiers and their allies, especially that the sharia says that allies of occupiers face the same fate as occupiers themselves." Belhadj also expressed his opinion regarding the killing of two Algerian diplomats in Iraq, for which, according to a website, al-Qaida had claimed responsibility. Al-Qaida regards Algeria's government as infidel and said in a web-statement: "We won't forget what Algeria did to Muslims, by killings, destruction and spilling their blood."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 10:01 ||
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About 1000 protesters have clashed with Iraqi police in the town of Samawa, south of Baghdad, leaving at least one person dead and about 60 others injured, police say. The protest on Sunday was over the poor state of water and power supplies. Witnesses said police opened fire on the crowd. At least one person was killed and 46 civilians injured in the fighting, said Captain Hussein Manwar. Thirteen police officers were injured, he said. Witnesses said the demonstration in front of the governor's offices began peacefully, but when it grew larger, government security guards fired shots into the air to disperse the crowd. Clashes with police began after demonstrators threw rocks and attacked a police vehicle, setting it on fire, witnesses said.
Iraq's new Shia-led government took power in January elections promising to end violence and restore public services. But frustrations are running high with electricity shortages and high unemployment. Samawah, 370km southeast of Baghdad, is where about 600 Japanese troops are based. They have been involved in a series of reconstruction efforts since arriving in the area in January 2004, including paving roads, rebuilding schools and providing hospitals with medical supplies and equipment.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/07/2005 09:58 ||
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JERUSALEM â A Palestinian Temple Mount leader with alleged links to Hamas has called on Arabs to flood the holy site next weekend to protect it from "Israeli protesters," while a Jewish group is urging Jews to ascend the Mount en mass the same day.
Sheikh Raed Salah, head of the Islamic Movement, a Palestinian Temple Mount activist group, called on Arabs Friday to "defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque" Aug. 14, the day Jews commemorate the destruction of the First and Second Temples with a 25-hour fast. The Western Wall, below the Mount, is usually particularly crowded the day of the fast, with several large Jewish prayer services taking place throughout the day and the night before. The Jewish worshippers traditionally do not ascend the heavily restricted Mount itself.
Salah, who was recently released from prison, has been accused by Israel of receiving funds from organizations related to terror groups, including Hamas. He said Friday, Muslims must defend Al Aqsa by outnumbering the Jews praying at the Western Wall below.
The Islamic Movement's call for Palestinian protests coincides with an announcement by Revava, a Jewish Temple Mount group, for Jews to ascend the Mount Aug. 14 to hold a "massive prayer assembly for the rebuilding of our holy Temple on its historic site." David Ha'ivri, chairman of Revava, told WND, "The Muslims must understand that their rule over our holy place has come to an end and that the Jewish people will exercise our religious rights on the Temple Mount. We expect thousands of Jews to take part."
It was unclear if Jerusalem police would allow the rally to take place. The police have previously banned some of Revava's other protests, citing "security concerns."
Revava last held a rally at the Western Wall April 10, after it announced plans to bring 10,000 Jews to the Mount, prompting counter-protests by Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and on the Temple Mount, and by more than 100,000 Muslims in Indonesia and several other Muslim countries. Only about 200 Jewish protesters were allowed past intense security during the Revava rally and they did not ascend the Mount.
Ha'ivri expects a large turn out this time, partly because there will likely already be thousands at the Western Wall during the fast day. "Also, over the last weekend, a number of Jewish Temple groups have joined our call and have posted ads in the newspapers calling for marches to the Temple gates and for prayer on the Temple Mount," Haivri explained.
The Temple Mount activity comes at a particularly heated time here. In an act Israeli police are calling "Jewish terrorism," Eden Natan Zada, 19, carried out a shooting attack against Arab passengers on a public Israeli bus in the northern Arab town of Shfaram on Thursday. Zada also was killed when he was assaulted by a mob of angry Arab bystanders and witnesses. man only 19 years old
Zada was an Israeli Defense Forces soldier recently sentenced to jail time for refusing orders related to the Aug. 17 evacuation of Jewish communities in Gaza and parts of Samaria.
The attack elicited calls for Arab protests and revenge. Israeli Arabs Friday held a general strike. Hamas warned of possible ... more like when or how much
... retaliation. The Arab-Israeli Monitoring Committee, which includes leading Arab figures, stated, "A popular uprising against the fascism and negative treatment we receive is the most reasonable scenario."
Relating the shooting to possible violence on the Temple Mount, Salah said, "This is not an isolated incident. It is the outcome of the Israeli discriminatory policy against the Arab residents of Israel. Last year the settlers said that they will carry a terrorist attack against the al-Aqsa mosque, and other mosques in Israel. This attack could be one of a series of planned terrorism against us."
The Temple Mount was opened to the general public until September 2000, when the Palestinians started their intifada by throwing stones at Jewish worshipers after then-candidate for prime minister Ariel Sharon visited the area. Following the onset of violence, the new Sharon government closed the Mount to non-Muslims, using checkpoints to control all pedestrian traffic for fear of further clashes with the Palestinians.
The Temple Mount was reopened to non-Muslims in August 2003. It still is open but only Sundays through Thursdays, 7:30 a.m. to 10 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., and not on any Christian, Jewish or Muslim holidays or other days considered "sensitive" by the Waqf, the Muslim custodians of the Temple Mount. During "open" days, Jews and Christian are allowed to ascend the Mount, usually through organized tours and only if they conform first to a strict set of guidelines, which includes demands that they not pray or bring any "holy objects" to the site. Visitors are banned from entering any of the mosques without direct Waqf permission. Rules are enforced by Waqf agents, who watch tours closely and alert nearby Israeli police to any breaking of their guidelines.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/07/2005 01:19 ||
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#1
G.S.T.W intoxicated comment:
Do you think it would be possible for a white person dressed in islamic clothing to carry out a suicide attack at Mecca on their annual pilgrimage ?
I think it would be nice for them to taste their own medicine for a change....
Oh how i dream of it......
Posted by: God Save The World ||
08/07/2005 4:26 Comments ||
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#2
I know the feeling GSTW... ever since 9/11 I've imagined the satisfaction of someone hijacking a Saudi Airliner and crashing it into Mecca during the Haj!
#3
That is precisely the difference between us and them. We would never even consider doing something like that while they consider it Standard Operating Procedure.
No. Islam is not like Christianity or Judism. Nothing like them at all.....
#4
Oh good grief, GSTW, don't be an idiot. We don't do that sort of thing, and that's one of the several things that makes us better people.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 12:23 Comments ||
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#5
We definitely don't want to stoop to their level. Remember, Christian's and Jews are not allowed to commit suicide. Leave that nonsense to the expert Satan worshippers.
#6
When I saw the headline phrase "explosive holy site" the first thing that came to mind was "mosque." I presume the IDF keeps some track of what kind of weapons are stored there. . .
Posted by: James ||
08/07/2005 16:23 Comments ||
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#7
Actually, as a result of the experience of the Holocaust, the rabbinic community concluded there are times when suicide is acceptable. But not when it involves taking innocents with you. Of course, to the radical Muslims, there are no innocent non-Muslims...
Aug 6: Five alleged muggers were arrested after a gunfight with RAB members at Nauzar in Sadar upazila today (Saturday). The arrested were identified as Jahangir, Faruk, Sohag, Daroga Ali and Shariful. Four of themâJahangir, Faruk, Sohag and Aliâwere injured in the gunfight.
Patched up at the Chittagong Medical College ER.
Police said the RAB men in the guise of land traders went to the area where they challenged six muggers who in their desperate bid to escape opened fire on the elite force.
"It's the RAB, lads! Open senseless, poorly aimed fire!"
Four of the miscreants were injured when the RAB members returned fire.
"Ooch! Ouch! Ooch!"
Later, the elite force held one of the miscreants, Shariful.
"Shariful! Let's have a 'conversation'!"
The five miscreants, including the four injured, were handed over to police.
"C'mon chief, can't we 'cross-fire' one of them? Huh?"
"Too many folks is lookin'. Now go find that shutter gun."
One revolver, a knife and another homemade weapon were recovered from the scene.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 00:15 ||
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#1
Police said the RAB men in the guise of land traders went to the area
The olde land sharks disguise, seen it often. But that was a long time ago, things were different then.
#2
I can't believe that the RAB is going soft. I'm guessing that the regular correspondent is on vacation and they have a temp filling in, and the temp is just taking a few days to get up to speed.
KATHMANDU - Five children abducted by Maoists from schools in eastern Nepalâs Taplegunj district have escaped their captors, Nepalese media reports said on Saturday.
They weren't kidnapped, it was just, um, ... summer camp. From Hell.
The children, all under 14 years of age, escaped last Tuesday, local media said. According to the private Image Metro television channel, the children were forced by the Maoists to join the rebel groupâs militia. The Nepalese internet news portal Kantipuronline quoted its correspondent in the district, about 300 kilometres from Kathmandu, as saying that the Maoists resorted to beating the children when they expressed their desire to go home. âThe Maoists used to beat me when I said I wanted to go to my parents,â 12-year-old Ashok was quoted as saying.
Yup, Maoists are just warm and fuzzy when they're around kids ...
Meanwhile, at least 65 people including 20 students were abducted by Maoists in western Nepal Wednesday and Thursday, media reports said Saturday. Security sources in the Nepalese capital said 20 persons were abducted in the Doti district, about 500 kilometres west of Kathmandu, and 20 students were taken in the Bajura district, about 460 kilometres west of the capital.
Village defense forces need more weapons.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 00:00 ||
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ISLAMABAD â A militant suspected of bringing murdered US reporter Daniel Pearl to his kidnappers has confessed he was working for two key Al Qaeda-linked operatives, police said on Saturday.
I see the Pakistani Olympic Truncheon team is still in fine form.
Mohammad Hashim Qadir was arrested last month in Gujranwala in the central province of Punjab. Security sources believe he set up a meeting between Pearl and militants who later kidnapped and killed him. âHe has confessed to his role in the Pearl case and to some robberies,â Gujranwala police chief Zafar Abbas told Reuters. No-one was available to give comment from Qadir himself.
And he wasn't feeling up to any press comments, either.
Abbas did not say what part Qadir, also known as Arif, played in the Wall Street Journal reporterâs abduction and murder, but said he had admitted taking instructions from two militants who played key roles in the plot. âHe confessed he was receiving orders from Omar Sheikh and Amjad Farooqi.â
British-born Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, commonly known as Omar Sheikh, was sentenced to death in 2002 for masterminding the murder, but is still in jail awaiting an appeal hearing.
Surprised they didn't release him on a recognizance bond ...
Amjad Hussain Farooqi was named as a conspirator in the Pearl case, and was considered a key link between local militants and Al Qaeda planner Abu Faraj Farj Al Libbi, who was captured in Pakistan in May. Farooqi, who was also implicated in assassination plots against President Pervez Musharraf, was killed by security forces in the southern city of Nawabshah in September last year.
Not clear whether even his mother misses him ...
Investigators in Karachi, where Pearl was murdered, say Qadir acted as a go-between for Sheikh and Farooqi.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Is that suprise meter back from repair, yet? I hope we have spare units.
"No-one was available to give comment from Qadir himself."
9 out 10 MD's agree that talking with only a fourth of a tongue can be difficult.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/07/2005 16:52 Comments ||
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#5
Australian TV Interview with Perv
MARK DAVIS: Yes, but what they are specifically saying on the banned groups, they're saying, "Well, you have banned them, but you haven't done much else. " That they have been renamed, they have been reformed, very few arrests, very few serious crackdowns - so they are just challenging the perception that you re actually doing anything, fairly or unfairly. One of the groups you have banned is Lashkar-e-Tayiba. One of their graduates is of interest in Australia - Willie Brigitte was recently discovered in Australia, allegedly with plans to blow something up, again it's widely believed and according to that ICG report, that Lashkar-e-Tayiba is still functioning in Pakistan. Now, you may say these groups aren't threatening Pakistan, but they are threatening other countries. Is it acceptable that they can survive in any form?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Lashkar-e-Tayiba has not been banned, this has not been banned. Lashkar-e-Tayiba is not threatening anybody. Who has told you that they are threatening anybody? It is Jaish-e-Muhammed which threatens and Jaish-e-Muhammed is banned.
MARK DAVIS: Willie Brigitte, who is now in French custody, allegedly had plans to. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Who?
MARK DAVIS: A man named Willie Brigitte, he's now in French custody. He said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan, he was discovered in Australia, apparently with plans to blow something up. There's another Australian, David Hicks, who is now in Guantanamo Bay. He trained with Lashkar-e-Tayiba. He says that he was given training by the Pakistani army in Kashmir. So these groups do seem to be growing rather beyond any Kashmiri or any Pakistani issues.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: It is very clear as far as we are concerned. Let's leave Kashmir aside. In Kashmir there is a freedom struggle going on and the people of Pakistan are emotionally involved with it. This is a 50-year-old dispute and we better resolve it politically. Let's leave that aside. We don't think there is any terrorism going on there. Now if anybody is carrying out terrorism around the world, we certainly are against it and we would like to act against it. Now the name that you are taking, frankly I don't know about that.
MARK DAVIS: I might just clarify that - it might be a pronunciation problem of mine - Lashkar-e-Tayiba - I mean this is not a banned group?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, no, no, this is certainly not a banned group.
MARK DAVIS: They are on a watch list, though, you've put them on a watch list have you?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Yes, yes.
MARK DAVIS: So they are on a watch list but they are not banned?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No.
MARK DAVIS: The American have just taken into custody a group of them in Iraq, outside of Baghdad, that they say, were operating. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, I think we are mistaken there. I don't think Lashkar-e-Tayiba has come out anywhere. That is not the reality, I don't think so. Maybe you are talking of Jaish-e-Muhammad, which is the main troublesome organisation which has been. . .
MARK DAVIS: Now, it's now known as JD, so is JD still. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD is Jaish-e-Muhammad.
MARK DAVIS: Yeah.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD? I don't know. Jaish-e-Muhammad is the one which an extreme organisation and the leader is underground. We will get hold of him at any time, we are trying to look for him.
Posted by: john ||
08/07/2005 20:14 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Prime Minister 
Two senior al-Qaeda operatives in Saudi Arabia made money transfers and used coded text messages to communicate with suspected terrorists in Britain before last month's attacks in London, according to officials in the kingdom. The two men, of Moroccan descent, have since been shot dead. 
Palestinian judges and lawyers shut down the Palestinian legal system Saturday until further notice to protest recent attacks against senior legal officials. The shutdown was announced in a statement signed by judges and lawyers. Earlier in the week in Gaza City, an explosive device was detonated outside the home of former Palestinian Justice Minister Zuhair Sourani, while a separate blast damaged a wall outside the home of the Palestinian Authority's attorney general in the city, Hussein Abu Assi. Both men were appointed by parliament to investigate widespread corruption in the Palestinian Authority. Sourani resigned as overseer of judges on Saturday, saying the Palestinian Authority was not doing enough to protect him and his colleagues.
An Algerian political leader has been told by a court that he would remain imprisoned pending further questioning, his son said. Ali Belhadj, the former number two in the banned Islamic Salvation Front (FIS), was arrested on 27 July after an Aljazeera television interview where he supported the resistance to the US-led forces in Iraq. "An investigating judge questioned Ali Belhadj and ordered him back to prison," Abdelkader Moghni, a former FIS leader, said. Belhadj's son Abdelfattah added: "The authorities has returned my father back to jail to complete the questioning." 
Aug 6: Five alleged muggers were arrested after a gunfight with RAB members at Nauzar in Sadar upazila today (Saturday). The arrested were identified as Jahangir, Faruk, Sohag, Daroga Ali and Shariful. Four of themâJahangir, Faruk, Sohag and Aliâwere injured in the gunfight.
KATHMANDU - Five children abducted by Maoists from schools in eastern Nepalâs Taplegunj district have escaped their captors, Nepalese media reports said on Saturday. 
ISLAMABAD â A militant suspected of bringing murdered US reporter Daniel Pearl to his kidnappers has confessed he was working for two key Al Qaeda-linked operatives, police said on Saturday. 
