Article

2007-03-29 Home Front: WoT

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Mike 2007-03-29 00:00|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Grapes looked pretty good, but then...

Indeed, by declaring the whole thing illegitimate, all you're doing is siding with the Islamophobes of the world who claim the Muslims and the Arabs are far too savage, backward, and primitive to respect things like democracy and human rights. Indeed, you're implicitly siding the the Jihadwatch crowd.

Sour.

Strawman, manipulative, dishonest argument.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-03-29 01:21|| 2007-03-29 01:21|| Front Page Top

#2 "Strawman, manipulative, dishonest argument."

Not too surprising; Dean is one of those "True Believer" types, and one of the things he truly believes (for the moment, at least) is "It's NOT the Islam, Stupid!!"

If you visit his website, be sure to click on the link (in the upper left corner) to his Editorial Policy. Dean precipitated a major crisis at Dean's World a couple weeks back when he laid down The New Law:

It is henceforth the editorial policy that if you cannot write with the following as your presumptions, you do not belong here:
1) Islam does not represent the forces of Satan or the Anti-Christ bent upon destruction of the Christian world.

2) There is no 1,400 year old "war with the West/Christianity" being waged by "The Muslims" or anyone else.

3) Islam as a religion is no more inherently incompatible with modernity, minority rights, women's rights, or democratic pluralism than most ancient religions.

4) Medieval, anachronistic, obscure terms like "dhimmitude" or "taqiyya" are suitable for intellectual discussion & analysis. They are not and never will be appropriate to slap in the face of everyday Muslims or their friends.

5) Muslims have no more need to prove that they can be good Americans, loyal citizens, decent people, or enemies of terrorism than anyone else does.
That is our stated editorial position. You--and this includes commenters--will work from respect for that, or you just need to leave.

Several of his regular contributors told him to stuff it, and left. I can't imagine why...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-29 06:36|| 2007-03-29 06:36|| Front Page Top

#3 you're implicitly siding the the Jihadwatch crowd.

So what, or for those with much more patience, your point is?

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-29 07:43|| 2007-03-29 07:43|| Front Page Top

#4 "Several of his regular contributors told him to stuff it, and left. I can't imagine why..."

...including his own wife!

Posted by E. Brown 2007-03-29 09:14|| 2007-03-29 09:14|| Front Page Top

#5 The Jihadwatch crowd doesn't chop off heads and get off on the videos of the same.

Posted by 3dc 2007-03-29 09:49|| 2007-03-29 09:49|| Front Page Top

#6 But you can't have it both ways. Indeed, by declaring the whole thing illegitimate, all you're doing is siding with the Islamophobes of the world who claim the Muslims and the Arabs are far too savage, backward, and primitive to respect things like democracy and human rights. Indeed, you're implicitly siding the the Jihadwatch crowd.

It was not illegitimate; it was misguided. I once was blind but now I see. My change of opinion does not make me islamophobic it makes me suicidophobic.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-03-29 09:49|| 2007-03-29 09:49|| Front Page Top

#7 "It was not illegitimate; it was misguided."

I wouldn't call it "misguided". Certainly, anyone who took the magically curative powers of Western-style democracy as an article of blind faith was misguided. And that goes double for anyone who still believes with all his heart that democracy will cure what ails the Islamic world; for the evidence to date suggests that it may well not.

But it's something we had to try.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-29 10:33|| 2007-03-29 10:33|| Front Page Top

#8 Indeed, by declaring the whole thing illegitimate, all you're doing is siding with the Islamophobes of the world who claim the Muslims and the Arabs are far too savage, backward, and primitive to respect things like democracy and human rights. Indeed, you're implicitly siding the the Jihadwatch crowd.

This is as idiotic than telling that Geramns and Nazis couldn't respect democracy. It is idiotic because it mixes two things: race and ideology.

Arabs are not genetically unable to respcet democracy (another thing is what happens when someone has been impreganated with Arab culture) but Islam like Nazism is totally incompatible with it: idelogies who tell that there are people who have the right to enslave others and that there is a strict hierarchy between the herrensvolk are not compatible with democracy.

And that is not islamohopbia but idiotiphobia.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-03-29 11:13|| 2007-03-29 11:13|| Front Page Top

#9 I have to complete by saying that Arab culture because it refers to tribalism and islam is incompatible with democray so if considering Arabs as a a group then they must be unarabized for democracy being able to flourish.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-03-29 11:22|| 2007-03-29 11:22|| Front Page Top

#10 I see this in a slightly different light. I don't know much about Dean Esmay's past but this seems almost like one of those "coming out" pieces, as if he is giving a mea culpa and announcing to his looney liberal friends that he is not willing to side with murderous thugs just to keep the "I hate Republicans and George Bush" party going. He digs at Jihad watch because it is tough to acknowledge that the people whom you despised and felt superior to were right and you were wrong. So he acknowledges that his Americaphobia was misplaced but clings to his belief that he is more "open minded" than those people.

If my theory is correct, then I welcome him back to the world of the sane, even if he comes reluctantly, but he is wrong to shut down the discussion about Islam's compatibility with democracy. I understand his frustration about dealing with the millions of Muslims who could live in a democratic world if only.... this or if only that.... But the reality is that to be a strict follower of Islam means that you can not separate church or state and that you can not tolerate non-believers. To deny the discussion will not make that reality go away.

Posted by Fester Jomons8988 2007-03-29 12:41|| 2007-03-29 12:41|| Front Page Top

02:24 saveababykillademocrat
02:05 saveababykillademocrat
01:27 saveababykillademocrat
01:25 saveababykillademocrat
01:19 saveababykillademocrat
00:04 Saveababykillademocrat
00:03 Saveababykillademocrat
00:01 Saveababykillademocrat
23:57 Cromert
23:54 Zenster
23:48 Zenster
23:45 RD
23:45 smn
23:38 smn
23:37 SteveS
23:35 RD
23:24 Phineter Thraviger
23:14 JosephMendiola
23:11 Jackal
23:04 JosephMendiola
23:04 RD
23:02 RD
23:02 JosephMendiola
22:58 JosephMendiola