Article

2003-04-10 Iraq

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Posted by Paul Moloney 2003-04-10 04:10 am|| || Front Page|| [11140 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Uh oh. HEre come the Turks...

Posted by Ptah 2003-04-10 04:42:26|| [www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-04-10 04:42:26|| Front Page Top

#2 It shows only how right Turkey was to distrust the US and the words of Bush and Powell.

Posted by Murat 2003-04-10 04:53:04|| 2003-04-10 04:53:04|| Front Page Top

#3 Murat: cypriots kurds armenians

Posted by anon1 2003-04-10 05:00:07|| 2003-04-10 05:00:07|| Front Page Top

#4 Murat

Why are Turks so afraid of the Kurds?

Worried that if US troops head north into Turkey they will be greeted as liberators by 40% of the population of Turkey who have been oppressed and brutalized for generations.

Turkey blew its chance to be America's friend in this war. Now the Kurds are doing everything they can to be America's best and most trustworthy friend in the region.

The world has changed! You (Turkey) will have to live with it whether you like it or not.

What is it with Moslem society that their response to every problem is - why are you are conspiring against us!

It still amazes me that Turkey could mis-calculate so badly.

Posted by Phil B 2003-04-10 05:11:00|| 2003-04-10 05:11:00|| Front Page Top

#5 It shows how wrong America was to trust"Fair-weather friend"Turkey.
Go whine to the French,Murat,at least the French people are starting to realize they screwed the pooch.

Posted by raptor 2003-04-10 06:37:27|| 2003-04-10 06:37:27|| Front Page Top

#6 Please lets not be too hard on the Turks. On their side they were allies for all the long years of the cold war. They were allies in the Gulf War (and not even their critics admit they were not made whole economically for that) and (even the Iraqi Kurds admit) some of the Turkish Kurds were real terrorists. Against this weighs their relative inability to date to fight internal corruption (I'm told they are giving it a good try now), their brutality in Cyprus, their oppression of the Turkish Kurd population and their failure to face up to the massacres of their Armenian population. In all, much better than most of the world.

Posted by mhw 2003-04-10 07:09:15|| 2003-04-10 07:09:15|| Front Page Top

#7 What's this talk about distrust? The Kurds aren't taking any Turkish territory,are they?You,Murat,sound like there was a deal between Turkey and USA to keep the Kurds from getting "an uppity-n****r syndrome" and demanding,God forbid,independence or something.
Soon they'll get weird ideas of being called "mister" instead of "hey you" and demand equal rights with the "master race" .What has the world come to when even the Kurds can't be kicked around anymore?

Posted by El Id 2003-04-10 07:24:44|| 2003-04-10 07:24:44|| Front Page Top

#8 C'mon, Murat, cross that border now and say hi to the US Army. C'mon over! The 4ID is getting in a little late and would like some action. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to welcome our bait-and-switch Turkish friends.

Posted by Dar 2003-04-10 08:13:37|| 2003-04-10 08:13:37|| Front Page Top

#9 Turkey is finished as an important ally of the US. It's nothing personal, they just don't matter that much anymore with the demise of the Soviet Union and Ba'athist Iraq.

z

Posted by ziphius 2003-04-10 08:27:41|| 2003-04-10 08:27:41|| Front Page Top

#10 It would be unwise for us to give up on Turkey just yet. They are still strategically important to us vs. Syria and it would be preferable to finesse this situation than to get into a shooting war with a NATO ally, especially such a formidable one.

The Turks have some legit issues here. They have been victims of Kurdish terrorism, for instance. However, they badly misplayed the situation vs. Iraq and will now have to watch the Kurds benefit from their miscalculation. Hopefully the Kurds will help us orchestrate the occupation of the Kirkuk oil fields in such a way that the Turks are deprived of another opportunity to make a strategic blunder. It would be in the best interest of all parties concerned.

Posted by JAB 2003-04-10 08:53:57|| 2003-04-10 08:53:57|| Front Page Top

#11 I notice that Murat didnt respond to my post!

The Kurds are historically the persecuted and friendless people of the Middle East. Well now they have the most powerful nation in the world as their friends.

Turkey is afraid and justifiably so! As Iran and Syria should be also. If the Kurds now persuade their new best friends that the Kurds should be liberated then for the US it becomes a matter of principle!

I've just heared on CNN that Colin Powell has said that US forces will remove Kurdish forces from Kirkut. As much as I respect CP, this is dumb dumb! To date Kirkut is the only Iraqi city liberated by Iraqis. Using US forces to reverse this would be a PR disaster - justifiably so!

Posted by Phil B 2003-04-10 09:25:25|| 2003-04-10 09:25:25|| Front Page Top

#12 latest reports

Turks "watching" the situation
US promises to send US forces in to occupy Kirkuk (173rd AB, or 1st ID?)
Peshmerga promise to leave soon(when the Yanks show up in force?)
Baathists in fighting retreat south toward Tikrit.
Situation should settle down soon.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-04-10 09:33:49|| 2003-04-10 09:33:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Murat: cypriots kurds armenians

Posted by Frank G 2003-04-10 10:46:01|| 2003-04-10 10:46:01|| Front Page Top

#14 It shows only how right Turkey was to distrust the US and the words of Bush and Powell.
Posted by: Murat 4/10/2003 4:53:04 AM

Murat you are in a fantasy land. Turkey had it's chance but she wanted to pound her chest. Your leaders were given very bad advice, that the united states could not and would not take Iraq without Turkish support. So we relied more on the Kurds, and how wrong is this? These people have gotten the short end of the deal for a thousand years. Your just upset you cannot beat up on the Kurds of Northern Iraq anymore without coming into direct confrontation with the United States. And you know Turked did it to herself. Last year I would of never of thouhgt we would be abandoned by one of our best allies (past tense). And I also would of never of said this, LONG LIVE KURDISTAN!

Posted by Dan 2003-04-10 10:53:54|| 2003-04-10 10:53:54|| Front Page Top

#15 Name of Turkish unlimited hydroplane racer:

Miss Calculate

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-04-10 11:00:06|| 2003-04-10 11:00:06|| Front Page Top

#16

They are still strategically important to us vs. Syria and it would be preferable to finesse this situation than to get into a shooting war with a NATO ally, especially such a formidable one.

If they were an ally, yes they would be important. I, however, believe that the "bait and switch" with the Turks was a crafty plan to delay our attack and allow more time for Saddam and the Iraqis to at least kill some more Americans and teach us a lesson while appearing to "stand up" to the Great Satan. You can see the same thing going on with Jordan. They are "supporting" the US, but shipping armaments to Saddam's regime.

I am very cynical regarding Muslim nations--like Turkey--and their "support" for the US. Certainly, they are our ally when we are helping protect them, but when push comes to shove, the Turkish people--and therefore the Turkish government--will blindly trash their futures on a brutal dictator simply because he is Muslim and we are infidels.

The thing that really chaps my ass; after giving us a royal shafting, they will continue to whine about the hardship placed on them, and how they are entitled to American money.
The Kurds, regardless of what happened between them and the Turks, have chosen to help. That makes them an ally in this war.
Those that hinder us, by default, help our enemy.
Helping the enemy does not make you an ally.

Posted by Celissa 2003-04-10 11:33:14|| [www.celissasblog.com/weblog.php] 2003-04-10 11:33:14|| Front Page Top

#17 Turkey gave us overflight rights through their airspace. Later in the war they allowed us to move "non-lethal" supplies over the ground. They have agreed to stay out, as requested, so far.

They ARE a model of democracy for the Muslim world, and have been very helpful in afghanistan.

We will need them in the future, and while we perhaps dont need to reward them now, it would not be wise to alienate them either.

As for Murat, disregard him.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-04-10 11:53:19|| 2003-04-10 11:53:19|| Front Page Top

#18 It appears, murat, that circumstances forced the Kurds to move prematurely. If Turkey had agreed to what the US wanted, these would have been American soldiers instead.

I don't take lightly the breaking of a promise: I hope the Kurds cooperate and leave as US Soldiers arrive. The value of their keeping their word, at this point, is all they'll have going to for them for a while.

The Kurds are smart: they'll settle for a Federal solution with their boundaries drawn so that local leaders will be Kurds since they will have the support of a Kurdish majority. This'll be the best deal they've had in the past two millenia. It won't be all that much different from the English colonial governments in the New world that learned the art of self-governance

I don't think Murat, and Turkey, are worried about the Kurds failing in their quest for self-governance. I think, honestly, that they're worried that the Kurds will succeed. Unlike Arafat, they're willing to take half a loaf now, build their strength from that half a loaf, and go for more of the loaf later.

Posted by Ptah 2003-04-10 14:29:28|| [www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-04-10 14:29:28|| Front Page Top

#19 Hey Murat, you're right. It appears we screwed you over.

Two can tango. We torpedoed your economy, we voided our promises about the Kurds. You stopped us with the 4ID.

Where is your Allah to save your Republic now?

Posted by Brian 2003-04-10 21:29:09|| 2003-04-10 21:29:09|| Front Page Top

12:38 raptor
12:14 Former Russian Major
11:21 raptor
10:54 raptor
10:46 raptor
10:22 raptor
09:39 raptor
09:10 raptor
02:25 True German Ally
01:09 Former Russian Major
00:13 Dishman
00:09 RW
23:57 Old Patriot
23:37 True German Ally
23:32 JAB
23:25 Old Patriot
23:19 True German Ally
23:03 Former Russian Major
22:55 Frank Martin
22:40 RW
22:37 Dishman
22:14 Bomb-a-rama
22:12 RW
22:04 Alaska Paul