Article

2005-05-28 Europe

Chirac to blaim Blair if Phrench vote NO on

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Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2005-05-28 01:13|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Tony keeps muttering something about "Henry" and the Salic Law, whatever that is...

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-05-28 01:39|| 2005-05-28 01:39|| Front Page Top

#2 Isn't that where England still owns Normandy because it was the property of William the Bastard, that funny little man who conquered England in 1066 A.D.? It seems to me that a couple of wars were fought over it, and some girl, I think St. Joan was her name, was burnt at the stake as a witch? ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-05-28 02:15|| 2005-05-28 02:15|| Front Page Top

#3 No, I'm wrong. Boy, can life be interesting on the Continent if you are a true European Conservative (ie. Monarchist).

Posted by trailing wife 2005-05-28 02:22|| 2005-05-28 02:22|| Front Page Top

#4 Showin' the EU 'love' no doubt.

Posted by Captain America 2005-05-28 04:26|| 2005-05-28 04:26|| Front Page Top

#5 Bordeaux not Normandy is what should fall in English hands (so people would drink English wines when they want something good). Normandy was a strongholmd of an anti-english resistance movement during the Hundred Yaers Wars while Bordeaux after being retaken by the French, raised and expelled them. However by that time England wasn't able to help it so the French took Bordeaux again and there was a sttroing repression.

BTW: The use of Salic law for French succession was just a trick if the FRench nobility who wanted to keep the old ways of semi-indpendant noblmes instead of teh British way where the King really ruled and kepot them in check: the French monarchy decendent of the Ripuarian Franks not from the Salian and thus Salic law didn't apply.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-05-28 06:54|| 2005-05-28 06:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Could anyone earse my preceeding post; it is so full of typos to be unreadable. Here is the corrected version.

It is not Normandy but Bordeaux, alongside with its wines, who should fall in English hands English hands. Normandy was a stronghold of an anti-english resistance movement during the Hundred Years War while Bordeaux (capital of Aquitaine and thus a fiedfom of the Plantagenets) after being retaken by the French, raised and expelled them. However by that time England wasn't able to send help so the French took Bordeaux again and exerted a heavy repression against the insurgents. This marked the end of the Hundred Years War.

BTW: The use of Salic law for French succession was just a trick of the French nobility who wanted to keep the old ways of independant nobles paying only lip service to the crown, raising their own taxes and having their own armies instead of the British way where there was a real State and the King kept the nobility in check. The French monarchy was descendent of the Ripuarian Franks not from the Salian Franks and thus there was no legal base for applying the Salic law to France's succession.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-05-28 07:24|| 2005-05-28 07:24|| Front Page Top

#7 "They also expect Mr Chirac to launch a fresh assault on Britain's Â£3 billion rebate from the EU budget."
Then Tony will say "boo" and Jackie will surrender.

Don't bank on it. Chirac's not alone in demanding an end to the British rebate. Those French farmer types aren't the only ones whose livelihoods and standard of living are threatened by poor continental economic performance. They feel they have a right to a share of Britain's economic success because we're all meant to be so integrated now. We have had a system whereby economic backwaters like Ireland and Spain have been injected with other nations' wealth for decades now, and just because there are fewer and fewer nations able to donate without suffering significantly themselves, they see no reason to change the fundamental system but rather to increase the demands on those left. It's unsporting to be successful and not become a cash cow for your lazier neighbours, especially when more and more of your neighbours are getting lazy by the year. That's the EU / socialistic way.

Britain will have to fight hard to retain the rebate, and become even more unpopular and envied in the process.

Posted by Bulldog ">Bulldog 2005-05-28 07:28|| 2005-05-28 07:28|| Front Page Top

#8 Hey Bulldog,

How about Winston's old Union of English Speaking Peoples idea? Why EU? Why not a new alternative? Exploratory talks might do wonders when the folks start to complain about the rebate.

Posted by Shaviling Thromotle9261 2005-05-28 08:17|| 2005-05-28 08:17|| Front Page Top

#9 That idea makes entirely too much sense.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-05-28 09:24|| 2005-05-28 09:24|| Front Page Top

#10 How about Winston's old Union of English Speaking Peoples idea? History isn't over.

Posted by phil_b 2005-05-28 09:24|| 2005-05-28 09:24|| Front Page Top

#11 too many wogs

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-28 10:43|| 2005-05-28 10:43|| Front Page Top

#12 So easy to get the oui, Monsieur Chirac.
Fire Raffarin TODAY
Promise early presidential elections (without running yourself) if the French vote oui.
Call Giscard, who said that if the French say non they will have to revote, a pompous ass.

That should do it.
Encore un effort si vous voulez etre EuropÃ©en!
(JFM will get the reference).

Instead, on Monday, the French prime minister will be....

Dominique de Villepin.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-05-28 11:30|| 2005-05-28 11:30|| Front Page Top

#13 But TGA, doesn't Chirac go to jail if he stops being President?

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-05-28 12:21|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-05-28 12:21|| Front Page Top

#14 Not likely. They can give him a seat in the European Parliament or make him a member of the Senate to enjoy immunity.
Now if you asked "should he go to jail"...
Of course the French "Non" runs deeper than day to day politics. For years the semi-democratic (I'd coin the word "post-democratic") EU has told the French what they can't do without bothering much about common sense. Now it's payback time.
The EU will not crumble. A "Non" will be a welcome opportunity to rethink the EU. Maybe try that "We the people" approach?
Trying to coin a European identity by going anti-American isn't very intelligent.
The leftist German daily "taz" (which is famous for its brilliant snarky headlines) had this to say about Germany voting Yes.

"569 Germans vote for Europe".

The German Parliament had no mandate for doing this. It transferred quite a few sovereign democratic rights of the German people away to post-democratic Brussels. I believe a German vote would have been quite similar to the French one.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-05-28 13:06|| 2005-05-28 13:06|| Front Page Top

#15 TGA, you really think the Anglo-Saxon economy and Turkish membership are just canards relative to a popularity contest for the current administration? All politics is local, but I would hope the French are evaluating the issue with a somewhat broader perspective than that.

After previewing, I can only conclude, how stupid of me to think that.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-05-28 13:12|| 2005-05-28 13:12|| Front Page Top

#16 Winston Churchill's idea... hmm...

Not bad. US, UK, Aus already work together a lot. Especially in intel and specops. Thats the strongest true alliance on the planet.

Adding India to a "NATO" type of probably wouldn't hurt.

New Zealand and Canada?

Well the Kiwi's usually stand with us.

But the Canadians lately are acting like Euro Tranzis, or a 3rd world country with the kleptocrats in charge (Paul Martin). Put them in as non-voting members since they also require that people speak French.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-05-28 13:28|| 2005-05-28 13:28|| Front Page Top

#17 Add Japan too -- especially if they start building up an offensive force again.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-05-28 13:38|| 2005-05-28 13:38|| Front Page Top

#18 Mrs Davis... Turkey in the EU would be a "local issue" for the French (or the Germans)... it affects us personally.
But it's certainly not all about clubbing Chirac.. there is a deeper concern about losing identity. This is more important to the French than to the Germans (given the darker periods of German history).
The Germans saw the EU as a convenient institution to "hide" their true strength. It saved them from asserting a visible dominant political role in Europe that would compel other European nations to gang up against them.
The French instead saw the EU as a convenient tool to "dominate" Europe (backed up with German economic power).
In the 90s this all changed. It's common (but not widely published) knowledge that Maastricht Treaty and the Euro was a French invention to curb the newly feared economic power of the Bundesbank.
We were shortchanged.
2007 could be interesting. Sarkozy is much closer to the German conservatives, so Sarkozy/Merkel will make an interesting couple.
2006 will not be a good year for Chirac. Germany will focus on mending the transatlantic fences and France will be a spectator. Oh sure, lots of French/German meetings, smiles for the cameras but Chirac will be a lonely man.
And I think George Bush, who has a good memory, will not forget who stood by him in 2002, when it was very unpopular in Germany to do so.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-05-28 13:44|| 2005-05-28 13:44|| Front Page Top

#19 the Kiwi's usually stand with us.

In what way, recently? It seems to me that they've been increasingly anti-US since the 70s, but maybe I'm missing something ....

Posted by too true 2005-05-28 14:15|| 2005-05-28 14:15|| Front Page Top

#20 I agree with TGA's analysis. New Zealand has for practical purposes disarmed and gone neutral. They are free-riding on US and Australian defence efforts.

Posted by phil_b 2005-05-28 17:01|| 2005-05-28 17:01|| Front Page Top

#21 old saying from the very early post-rome era I read years ago:

"Trust a snake before a Frank and trust a snake not at all."

Posted by Gruter Shuting3428 2005-05-28 18:31|| 2005-05-28 18:31|| Front Page Top

#22 Let's see, where is that 10 foot pole?

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-28 21:17|| 2005-05-28 21:17|| Front Page Top

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