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2004-06-10 Arabia
Doubts Arise on Saudi Arabia’s Stability
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Posted by Zenster 2004-06-10 2:49:26 AM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 In other surprising developments . . . Sun Rises in East . . . Rain Falls From Dark Clouds . . . Water Flows Downhill . . . Cats Chase Mice . . .
Posted by Mike  2004-06-10 6:14:30 AM||   2004-06-10 6:14:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 downhill ?

you've never been to gravity hill
Posted by dcreeper 2004-06-10 7:32:47 AM||   2004-06-10 7:32:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 fire up the fuel cell factories. We're going to need them sooner than we thought.
Posted by B 2004-06-10 9:06:09 AM||   2004-06-10 9:06:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 There's no uncertainty about the availability of Saudi oil that a couple of Marine Expeditionary Units can't resolve, if it comes to that. Anybody remember this little gem from back in "energy crisis" days?
Posted by Mike  2004-06-10 9:41:45 AM||   2004-06-10 9:41:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Mike -
Victory Games' Gulf Strike in it original form was the absolute top of the line for gaming what a US invasion of the Soddies would have been like. A bunch of us stationed at Langley AFB in the mid-eighties tweaked it to conform to absolute reality, and it tended to sober people up right quickly.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-06-10 11:00:13 AM||   2004-06-10 11:00:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 mike, would you beleive i have that in the basement?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-10 11:02:53 AM||   2004-06-10 11:02:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Mike K - You can't stop there! C'mon, details, details!
Posted by .com 2004-06-10 11:02:55 AM||   2004-06-10 11:02:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 of course how it games will depend on basing, which will depend on the poltiical circumstances. A US intervention AGAINST the house of Saud would be different from an intervention over the dead body of a house of saud killed by Al _qaeeda (and of course Pro_Aq elements within the House of Saud). The latter would presumably have the open support of Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, etc which would make the logistics easier.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-06-10 11:07:58 AM||   2004-06-10 11:07:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 .com-
Details you shall have...*S*
When I arrived at 1TFW in July 84, the old Rapid Deployment Force was still in business, and it was because I showed a certain interest in the planning side of things, I was dropped into the 1EMS Combat Plans section. (NOTE: Everything from here on is public domain.)
Having access to the actual plans along with a bit more acrate reference materials, some friends and I rebuilt the game to make it as absolutely accurate as we could, and after a couple of months of tweaking, we turned it loose on The Nightmare Scenario: a full-blown Soviet invasion of the Persian Gulf. As this was 1986ish, we assumed a direct Soviet invasion of Iran, along with an Iraqi/Soviet invasion of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia (Soviet units were almost all airborne in that part). The results were horrifying. The short version is that most US units got there just in time to be hacked to pieces. The 82nd ABN was able to be there within about 96 hours, but they were up against - IIRC - three full Soviet mechanized corps and an ungodly amount of airpower. The ports were gone within hours - either captured, unusable, or mined.
Now, we DID do the 'good' scenario - a US invasion of the Gulf, focusing on the Soddies. Even under mid 80s constraints, it was quick, fast and overwhelming. We went with the 82 ABN dropping on the oilfields, Ras Tanura, and Dhaharan and assumed Iraqi and Iranian tactical neutrality. The carriers were able to pretty much neutralize the RSAF, and Saudi units are so spread out that it was fairly easy to hold them off until the MEUs got there a couple days later - with help from the CVs and Arc Lights from DG. The bottom line then was that within 24 hours, there was nothing resembling C3I capability on the Soddy side, and the ground units were pulling back towards Riyadh, Mecca/Madinah and KKMC. The war was effectively over in about 4 days, and never once did it fail to end in anything other than an overwhelming US victory. Doing it now - with the capabilities we have in place - would turn it, I think, into a 24 hour rout.
Now, where's my copy of Harpoon Classic?...

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-06-10 1:10:55 PM||   2004-06-10 1:10:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I just knew Rantburg had a Wargamers' Club! This thread is bringing back some serious memories from my college days.

In all seriousness, if any of you guys are up for a little gaming (either PBEM or in person if the geography works out) hit me with an e-mail.
Posted by Mike  2004-06-10 1:59:54 PM||   2004-06-10 1:59:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Mike K, you focused on a Soviet invasion in which we responded. Was there anything related to internal threats tossed around during that time? And does anyone know if we even would respond to prop up the Royals if there was some kind of coup, whether al-Q-pushed, or otherwise?
Posted by The Doctor 2004-06-10 2:44:35 PM||   2004-06-10 2:44:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 If I remember right Dale Brown authored a novel with a simaler scenario.
Posted by Raptor 2004-06-10 5:49:06 PM||   2004-06-10 5:49:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Now, where's my copy of Harpoon Classic?...

It's rearming and will be ready in 89 minutes unless that elusive Oscar plans a land attack mission.
Posted by Shipman 2004-06-10 5:52:35 PM||   2004-06-10 5:52:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Just for fun I'll let on that Harpoon destroyed one very promising job for me.... The only computers I had access to that could play it well enough were at work..... :)

A pure rat bastard memory hog if you ran amuck with the scenario generator.
Posted by Shipman 2004-06-10 5:56:07 PM||   2004-06-10 5:56:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Now, where's my copy of Harpoon Classic?...

Still have mine in a box somewheres. Spent a lot of hours playing it. And yes memory-hog is too tame a word for it building home-grown scenarios.

For reasons I listed a few days ago, co-opting the Royal Saudi Navy might be better than shooting at it.
Posted by Pappy 2004-06-10 9:05:19 PM||   2004-06-10 9:05:19 PM|| Front Page Top

01:57 Mark Espinola
01:22 Silentbrick
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