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2006-07-19 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
23 tons of explosives dropped on suspected Hezbollah bunker in Beirut!
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Posted by 3dc 2006-07-19 18:10|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Get 'em! Get 'em! Go IDF!
Posted by Mike 2006-07-19 18:22||   2006-07-19 18:22|| Front Page Top

#2 Sounds to me like they are testing the theory that if you drop one bunker busting bomb after another on the same spot you will drill down and penetrate the bunker.

Wonder if it worked?
Posted by phil_b">phil_b  2006-07-19 18:22|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]  2006-07-19 18:22|| Front Page Top

#3 It will be very interesting to see how well this approach works against deeply buried and reinforced targets under wartime conditions.
Posted by Iblis">Iblis  2006-07-19 18:23||   2006-07-19 18:23|| Front Page Top

#4 The IDF has bunker busters. If they were only going after one bunker, it seems odd. Maybe they were going after a bunch of tunnel mouths and got lucky. In any case, I hope the soldiers weren't being held there. Even if they weren't, I'm sure they'll say they were if the IDF got a bunch of their leadership. Might this explain the "tunnel" battle and all the ferocious fighting?
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 18:26||   2006-07-19 18:26|| Front Page Top

#5 Whoops, that was Beirut? I heard it was just a bit north of the border. My mistake.
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 18:27||   2006-07-19 18:27|| Front Page Top

#6 Yes, thought provoking. And fun too.
Posted by Chamble Omeager4377 2006-07-19 18:28||   2006-07-19 18:28|| Front Page Top

#7 Allan does not like you, Hezbull-boys.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-07-19 18:42||   2006-07-19 18:42|| Front Page Top

#8 Two things I just heard -- probably didn't get the guys, and Generals are wanting more bunker buster bombs. Don't we have a few to spare?
Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2006-07-19 18:50||   2006-07-19 18:50|| Front Page Top

#9 gorb, the 2 Israeli soldiers are purported to be held at Iranian embassy.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-07-19 18:56||   2006-07-19 18:56|| Front Page Top

#10 Fox is reporting that the bunker or bunker complex is 100 feet deep and has several entrances. It was reportedly built by the Iranians, who probably have schooling from the world's best bunker builders, the NorKs.

Iran is a major oil exporter. They bring in a ton-o-money. They are obviously not using it for domestic infrastructure as Tehran looks nothing like Dubai. That bunker is probably world class and the best that money can possibly buy with no expense spared in the materials and craftsmanship.

Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 18:57|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 18:57|| Front Page Top

#11 Yes, thought provoking. And fun too.

Hey, start thinking again! :-)

I just heard, but have seen no reports, that there were two bunkers, one in Beirut, and one down near the border. Please resuscitate comment #4 for now!.

I thought the IDF had a bunch of bunker busters. Either they didn't know it was there and got lucky [sorry Levant, Luck in this case is a relative thing], or they were out because they used them to seal off tunnels perhaps. In any case, I heard the IDF is thinking they either got their man or close to it. And probably a bunch of munitions, too.

Please oh please oh please . . .
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 18:58||   2006-07-19 18:58|| Front Page Top

#12 "gorb, the 2 Israeli soldiers are purported to be held at Iranian embassy."

But that report is from some Lebanese exile group. Like they would be in a position to know what goes on in the Iranian embassy.
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 18:58|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 18:58|| Front Page Top

#13 crosspatch: I'll bet the gov't had no idea that was there, right? Well, they only have to screw up the entrances to turn that bunker into a tomb for the bad guys I hope. Was that thing right near the airport?

I hope for several reasons they find those guys in the Iranian embassy.
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 19:01||   2006-07-19 19:01|| Front Page Top

#14 "Was that thing right near the airport?"

It was supposedly in the Shiite suburbs South of downtown Beirut. The Fox reporter on the scene said that from their hotel they heard:

"A loud explosion followed by a very loud long duration explosion followed by an extremely loud explosion"
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 19:04|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 19:04|| Front Page Top

#15 Is it raining fluffy bunny parts? :-)
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 19:09||   2006-07-19 19:09|| Front Page Top

#16 Israel is not a primitive country, and bunker buster technology doesn't have to be extraordinary. Remember that not too long ago, the US used bunker busters that were basically 8" artillery tubes filled with delicious cream filling, as it were.

They worked rather well, in a pinch, and I'm sure the Israelis could fab up something real sweet and real quick.

Under any circumstance, I believe the max penetration rule is three times the length of the bomb.

Amusingly enough, in a situation like this, the Israelis might grab a piece of land ON TOP of the bunker. Things get a lot easier that way, being able to drill through at your leisure.
Posted by Anonymoose 2006-07-19 19:11||   2006-07-19 19:11|| Front Page Top

#17 crosspatch, they have GOT to send these reporters to Explosion Reporting Training.

Posted by Carl in N.H.">Carl in N.H.  2006-07-19 19:13||   2006-07-19 19:13|| Front Page Top

#18 Israel is not a primitive country, and bunker buster technology doesn't have to be extraordinary. Remember that not too long ago, the US used bunker busters that were basically 8" artillery tubes filled with delicious cream filling, as it were.

They worked rather well, in a pinch, and I'm sure the Israelis could fab up something real sweet and real quick.

If we could put those things together in a month or so, it would probably take them a week! :-)

Under any circumstance, I believe the max penetration rule is three times the length of the bomb.

Depends on how well you tenderized the material it travels through, probably.

Amusingly enough, in a situation like this, the Israelis might grab a piece of land ON TOP of the bunker. Things get a lot easier that way, being able to drill through at your leisure.

Also makes for interesting negotiations. >:-}
Posted by gorb 2006-07-19 19:19||   2006-07-19 19:19|| Front Page Top

#19 Like this folks:

1st bomb (or set of bombs) collapses the above ground building. (Heavy bombs)

2nd clears away the debris from the first. (Lighter bombs).

3rd bomb cracks the roof (big mutha designed to dig a big surface crater).

Subsequent penetrators go in after that to take the deep shelter. One per layer of defense. JDAM types with penetrators best so as to hit the same hole.

And if you want to do it right, FAE to finish the job (works VERY well in enclosed spaces and amongst rubble). Whatever the penetrators didn't get, the FAE will wipe out with internal overpressures.

Don't ask.


Posted by Oldspook 2006-07-19 19:27||   2006-07-19 19:27|| Front Page Top

#20 "Depends on how well you tenderized the material it travels through, probably."

Actually, tenderizing the material can be a bad thing and make it harder to take it out. Imagine one of those corporate desk toys with the 5 steel balls in a row. When you pull one back and it hits the row of balls, the ball on the end flys out. The shock was transfered to the final ball which took flight, swings back and repeats the process in the other direction.

Now replace the middle ball with a beanbag. It doesn't work anymore and the shock isn't transmitted. A well engineered bunker would be set on something that acts as springs to absorb shock and would be covered with alternating layers of hard material such as steel reinforced concrete to prevent penetration as well as "crushable" materials such as a steel honeycomb structure to absorb shock from detonation resulting in the penetration of the layer above. In other words, the area above the bunker would be a "Dagwood sandwich" and prevent a single bomb from damaging the bunker. It would require several direct hits in exactly the same spot to bore through the protective layers.
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 19:31|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 19:31|| Front Page Top

#21 "Whatever the penetrators didn't get, the FAE will wipe out with internal overpressures."

Or once you have opened up enough cracks you simply saturate the area with raw fuel such as kerosene, give it a little bit to soak in and then light it with an incendiary. This starts a fire that oxygen depletes any remaining spaces inside. Then you pick off anyone making it to the exits with UAV mounted weapons.
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 19:37|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 19:37|| Front Page Top

#22 OS,

So, you want use banned ordinances, heh? I like your style.

Don't ask

Won't tell
Posted by Poison Reverse 2006-07-19 20:07||   2006-07-19 20:07|| Front Page Top

#23 Or the thermal bombs we have for cave busting. The explosion and burn keeps going, and going, and going, and going...
Posted by DarthVader 2006-07-19 20:15||   2006-07-19 20:15|| Front Page Top

#24 IDF claims the bunker was destroyed. Hixballah claims is was a mosque full of orphaned kittens.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291951954&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Posted by Iblis">Iblis  2006-07-19 20:15||   2006-07-19 20:15|| Front Page Top

#25 Gee, sports racers, I hope they didn't kill any duckies.
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 20:20|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 20:20|| Front Page Top

#26 Hmmm...

"Dozens" of planes...

24, perhaps, as in 23 with 2x1000lb JDAMs and a follow-up eyeball?
Posted by mojo">mojo  2006-07-19 20:24||   2006-07-19 20:24|| Front Page Top

#27 23 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.
Posted by jpal 2006-07-19 20:36||   2006-07-19 20:36|| Front Page Top

#28 Oooooh, thermite! I loves me some thermite. Imagine a giant thermite grenade set gently on the top of the bunker by heavy lift helicopter. It is also quite impossible to put out because it makes its own oxygen. Nothing but a big plug of slag when all is said and done.
Posted by crosspatch">crosspatch  2006-07-19 20:41|| http://crufty.blogspot.com]">[http://crufty.blogspot.com]  2006-07-19 20:41|| Front Page Top

#29 But Hezbollah denied the claim, saying the strike hit a mosque that was under construction...

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if that was actually true. How many mosques have been used as weapons depots? Putting a bunker beneath one makes perfect muzzy sense.
Posted by xbalanke 2006-07-19 21:15||   2006-07-19 21:15|| Front Page Top

#30 23 tons? Not even one BUFF load.
Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore  2006-07-19 21:17||   2006-07-19 21:17|| Front Page Top

#31 What a lovely earworm, jpal! ;-)

Separately, it was the Germans that built Saddam Hussein's bunkers for him. Did they do the job for Hizb'Allah's VIPs, too, I wonder?
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-19 21:29||   2006-07-19 21:29|| Front Page Top

#32 TW, if the price was right I'm sure they at least offered.
Posted by Scott R">Scott R  2006-07-19 21:43|| http://five24.net]">[http://five24.net]  2006-07-19 21:43|| Front Page Top

#33  Poison Reverse - what banned bombs ?
FAEs - not banned
Bunker Busters - not banned
HE - not banned
Posted by 3dc 2006-07-19 21:56||   2006-07-19 21:56|| Front Page Top

#34 shake em son
Posted by galley93 2006-07-19 22:01||   2006-07-19 22:01|| Front Page Top

#35 Well, for we non-military folks (who love our military!) reading and listening to 23 tons of explosives means nothing to me. Until, I heard Jennifer Griffith on Fox say she had seen a three story building completely demolished with 1000 pounds or tons. I prolly got the lbs-tons thing wrong, but either way, WOW.

That kinda gave me a more graphic image of what to expect. The world is gonna go crazy tomorrow, when pictures of this get shown.

Come on folks, the Israelis generals are wanting more bunker busters. Maybe we can pass the hat and give them a few more?
Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2006-07-19 22:25||   2006-07-19 22:25|| Front Page Top

#36 Glenmore, the max iron bomb loadout on a BUFF was on the B-52D with the Big Belly mod. It could carry 84 500 pounders in the belly (21 short tons) + 24 750s on the wings (9 short tons). The H's never got the big belly mod and are restricted to 27 1000 pounders in the belly and 24 750s on the wing for a 22.5 ton load. At least, that's how I remember it.
Posted by RWV 2006-07-19 22:26||   2006-07-19 22:26|| Front Page Top

#37 right, Mojo. Probably not that many actual bombs, if they were like us b.busters. I thought they were 2k apiece.
Posted by texhooey 2006-07-19 22:51||   2006-07-19 22:51|| Front Page Top

#38 See what I'm talking about folks? "the max iron bomb loadout on a BUFF was on the B-52D with the Big Belly mod"

Thanks guys..... this is why I'm here, Rantburg University at its best. Actually makes me feel much safer and gives me lots of confidence when you guys talk like this. Thank you.
Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2006-07-19 22:57||   2006-07-19 22:57|| Front Page Top

#39 General Characteristics
Primary Function: Heavy bomber
Contractor: Boeing Military Airplane Co.
Power plant: Eight Pratt & Whitney engines TF33-P-3/103 turbofan
Thrust: Each engine up to 17,000 pounds
Length: 159 feet, 4 inches (48.5 meters)
Height: 40 feet, 8 inches (12.4 meters)
Wingspan: 185 feet (56.4 meters
Speed: 650 miles per hour (Mach 0.86)
Ceiling: 50,000 feet (15,151.5 meters
Weight: Approximately 185,000 pounds empty (83,250 kilograms)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 488,000 pounds (219,600 kilograms
Range: Unrefueled 8,800 miles (7,652 nautical miles)
Armament: Approximately 70,000 pounds (31,500 kilograms) mixed ordnance -- bombs, mines and missiles. (Modified to carry air-launched cruise missiles)
Crew: Five (aircraft commander, pilot, radar navigator, navigator and electronic warfare officer
Accommodations: Six ejection seats
Unit Cost: $53.4 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Date Deployed: February 1955
Inventory: Active force, 85; ANG, 0; Reserve, 9
Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore  2006-07-19 22:57||   2006-07-19 22:57|| Front Page Top

#40 3dc,

I didn't mean the BB's or HE but, FAE (Napalm). FAE such as Napalm is banned. But the work around it to use benzene or ethylene oxide. All of a sudden, it's legal again. The BLU-118/B uses ethylene oxide. It would be an excellent choice in Old Spook's shopping list. Bottomline, you are correct. I was just having fun with OS.

For anyone interested, here is a quick run down. Warheads
Posted by Poison Reverse 2006-07-19 22:59||   2006-07-19 22:59|| Front Page Top

00:09 Poison Reverse
00:01 Crerelet Flamp6464
23:58 Fred
23:57 Crerelet Flamp6464
23:56 Oldspook
23:54 AzCat
23:53 C-Low
23:42 anymouse
23:34 Seafarious
23:32 trailing wife
23:29 Oldspook
23:27 gorb
23:24 OregonGuy
23:24 Glase Chavise4984
23:19 gorb
23:14 gorb
23:14 RWV
23:12 Broadhead6
22:59 Poison Reverse
22:57 Glenmore
22:57 Sherry
22:51 J. D. Lux
22:51 Unaling Thrash8971
22:51 texhooey









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