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2003-08-12 Middle East

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-08-12 13:33|| || Front Page|| [11145 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 How do you spell fatwa? I agree with what this guy is saying, but I hope he's got somebody he trusts watching his back.

Posted by Dakotah 2003-8-12 3:25:32 PM|| 2003-8-12 3:25:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Fred's summary really does summarize the dilemma.

I would add that the author is overgenerous regards Arab achivements - they stopped long before 1948 - they stopped when Little Mo's influence began to hold sway in the region.

Note: It IS Islam that created the sick twisted societies that Arabs accept as normal - they've had 1400 yrs of it, so it is their norm. Even when they go abroad long enough to begin to appreciate that it isn't the world's norm, they still revert to it upon return - for it is thoroughly institutionalized and enforced. They do not produce any lone wolves (free thinking people)in Islam - it is specifically bred out, in fact.

In the end, however, and as Fred uses as his closer, the tragedy of Islam becomes moot. Islam is a pathogen that causes a fatal disease.

Posted by Â·com 2003-8-12 3:30:03 PM|| 2003-8-12 3:30:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 *com, you are correct, but, if you want to persuade it is best not to insult everything about the culture and religion of those you wish to persuade.

It is best to provide a target that is part of the problem and that everyone dislikes (like the military and corrupt governments) and concentrate your shots there.

Posted by Yank 2003-8-12 3:49:18 PM|| 2003-8-12 3:49:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Yank - I hear you, bro. I just have this little problem with lies and prevarication. I have never known how to lie nicely - nor to use the diplo-speak of partial truth. Call it a personality flaw and near-total lack of social skills. I know, I'm screwed - I'll never get elected to anything, but that's okay with me. Prolly why I eventually chose to be a programmer - where neither of those skills is of value, but accuracy and precision as well as maintaining a handle on the big picture are.

Here in Rantburg, I hope it's allowed to call 'em like we see 'em - and this is the final sum from my up-close and waay-too-personal experiences with Islam. 8-)

Posted by Â·com 2003-8-12 4:51:24 PM|| 2003-8-12 4:51:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 De-humanizing your enemies is always a bad strategy. You'll end up underestimating them at the worst possible time. Some old Chinese guy told me that. He also said that it helps to know your own weaknesses and strengths, too.

I know that this must sound very sacreligious, but when I think about Dar al Islam, I sometimes feel like Abraham bargaining with God over Sodom and Gomorrah. Only it won't be God smiting the Muslims, it'll be us.

Switching from the religious to the secular, I once sat next to a psychiatrist on a long trip. She told me that what she does is de-program people from the crappy ideas their parents put in their heads. I have no idea how you deprogram so many people of so many bad ideas. Fear and utter defeat seem to be the only solutions. Hate so long as you fear, eh, Fred?

Posted by 11A5S 2003-8-12 7:12:14 PM|| 2003-8-12 7:12:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 If there is any hope for the Arabic world, it's the women. Arabic women who get a proper education, who become doctors, engineers, writers... whatever... you don't find many of them believing in jihad crap and "destruction of the West". This is not the case with many men, who can be as smart and educated as a Harvard man but still don't adapt to reality.

Just think of the brave girls of SOS Racisme in the Paris banlieue who defy Islamic violence directed against them ("ni putes ni soumises"). Take the RAWA women in Afghanistan, the Iranian students.

There is a lot of hate brewing. But as the German poet HÃ¶lderlin formulated 200 years ago: "Wo aber Gefahr ist, wÃ¤chst das Rettende auch" (But where there is danger, A rescuing element grows as well).

Germany plunged into darkness, too. How much hope did the world have for a democratic, peace loving Germany in 1944?

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-12 7:40:21 PM|| 2003-8-12 7:40:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Women, urbanization, and education, I think TGA. You won't reach the women as long as they are under the tight control of clan leaders in the countryside and even if they're in the cities, you won't affect them without education. Maybe our islamist adversaries understand their weaknesses better than we know? Maybe that's why they keep their women under such tight wraps.

In a perverse sort of way, I admire the Islamists for not giving up. Every other culture has let themselves be assimilated into the network of modernism and all it entails. Little by little, the boundaries of Confucianism, Bushido, feudalism, the caste system, etc. are eroded. Some scarcely exist any longer. The Russians, Chinese, and Japanese have all given up. Only the wahhabi/salafist/deobandi core continues to resist.

My admiration for the "noble savage" is insignificant when placed alongside my fear of savagery armed with nuclear weapons. I hope that Iraq works out. I hope that Syria and Iran fall. I hope that Saudi Arabia follows. I hope that Arabs will start ranking one another on the basis of success and failure rather than shame and honor. But my instincts, my reading of history and my knowledge of human nature tells me we are heading towards another genocidal convulsion like 70 AD, or the Thirty Years War or WW II. I pray that I am wrong.

Posted by 11A5S 2003-8-12 9:04:02 PM|| 2003-8-12 9:04:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 All I have to say is... you ignorant bastard.

Posted by David A. Garrett, Jr. 2003-8-12 11:13:36 PM|| [http://www.freespeechnews.com] 2003-8-12 11:13:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Looks like we have another Stevey:

Profile

An article on grass and terrorism.

Why is it always the ones who claim to be most for free speach and tolerance who end up shouting down opinions different than their own?

Posted by 11A5S 2003-8-13 12:00:47 AM|| 2003-8-13 12:00:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Because... well look at it this way. Basically what he said in his comment is that all or most Muslims are bad. Well? What about Christians? Do we not kill, rape, lie, cheat, and steal? I work with many Muslims from Palestine, Sudan, Pakistanm, Syria, and Kuwait. They are the most friendly and nice people that I know. According to this they are bad people, but I like to make up my own mind.

Posted by David A. Garrett, Jr. 2003-8-13 1:10:17 AM|| [http://www.freespeechnews.com] 2003-8-13 1:10:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Actually, my comment didn't say that most Muslims are bad. I said it was sad that the structure of Islam wastes human potential on a breath-taking scale. And I said that because of the inherent love for mindless violence among Islamists, I wouldn't give a hairy communist's rectum if they all went away tomorrow.

What about Christians? Christians, with the exception of a few nutbags like Kony in Uganda, are not leading jihads and calling for the establishment of a Christian caliphate (I suppose the equivalent would be to elevate the Pope or Billy Graham to a position with veto over all secular leadership). We're discussing a movement based on religion and rooted in that religion that has led to a stunted and distorted world view that allows the individual next to no freedom and which contributes next to nothing to the world's intellectual discourse.

Muslims as individuals aren't necessarily bad people -- nor are they necessarily good people. Immigrants tend not to be mainstreamers in their own countries -- it's the ones with ambition and drive who come here, precisely for the individual liberty that allows them to be successful. There are also a certain number who're here to destroy what we have because of that liberty, but that's one of the general subjects of Rantburg so there's no need to go into it in detail.

You're free to make up your own mind. You should. But you should make up your mind when you've got sufficient data to have an opinion. You can make up your mind that the sky is hotrod orange, and that's not going to change the underlying reality.

I suggest a bit more reading of Rantburg and the source articles that go into it every day before flinging charges of ignorance and bastardy.

Posted by Fred 2003-8-13 10:53:30 AM|| 2003-8-13 10:53:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Christinas never led a Jihad? What about the crusades?! What about the wich burnings. Everyone, muslim and christian, sins. If you get to know some of them you'll see that we are the same.

Posted by David A. Garrett, Jr. 2003-8-13 2:07:59 PM|| [http://www.freespeechnews.com] 2003-8-13 2:07:59 PM|| Front Page Top

14:07 David A. Garrett, Jr.
10:53 Fred
10:00 Daniel King
09:28 raptor
08:58 Craig
08:33 raptor
01:10 David A. Garrett, Jr.
00:32 Old Patriot
00:00 11A5S
23:13 David A. Garrett, Jr.
21:42 Anonymous
21:27 Mark IV
21:26 Anonymous
21:18 Dar
21:12 Secret Master
21:11 Frank G
21:08 Frank G
21:04 11A5S
20:51 Ptah
20:36 Frank G
20:29 Barbara Skolaut
20:27 Barbara Skolaut
20:03 A Jackson
19:55 Raphael