Article

2003-09-03 Middle East

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-09-03 00:13|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I like Boucher's use of the past tense... last time, but what about this time?

Posted by Pete Stanley 2003-9-3 1:35:37 AM|| 2003-9-3 1:35:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 These guys just don't seem to learn anything. As long as Arafart is still alive, there is going to be TROUBLE. Turn him into a corpse, and a very BIG obstacle to peace crumbles.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-9-3 2:18:14 AM|| 2003-9-3 2:18:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Digitalis, or one of the really nasty ones that takes several months to work?
The Hellfire and John Clark methods are not recommended because of publicity concerns.

Posted by Dishman 2003-9-3 2:24:38 AM|| 2003-9-3 2:24:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't get it, why is the US so opposed to expelling Arafart? It ain't gonna happen, again. The US diplomats in Israel making inquiries are going to make sure of that.

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-3 3:28:12 AM|| 2003-9-3 3:28:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The US has one bona-fide problem with the idea of expelling Arafat, I think: officially, he was elected - and we made a big deal out if it.

I know it was a TFBS election (Total Fucking BullShit) on a par with Saddam Hussein's election, but the US stepped on its dick a few times afterward by referring to him as the elected leader of the Paleos - the grounds for inviting him to Camp David / Rose Garden / etc. So, though it was our favorite Idiotarian Prez Clinton, it became official language - for the Foggy Bottom guys, anyway.

We have to officially make the case that he has become an impediment (i.e. agree with Israel publicly - and often) and then we can follow through. We'll get skewered, regardless, by any number of asshats (our own IndyMedia chumps, EuroElitists, the Arab "Press", etc.) but it's obvious we need to do it.

Oh shit, re-reading this, I just realized I sound just like LH. I gotta get my cholesterol and triglyceride counts back up! Tonight, it's definitely steak, rare. ;-)

Posted by .com 2003-9-3 4:09:33 AM|| 2003-9-3 4:09:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 "Hellfire and John Clark methods are not recommended because of publicity concerns."
They could use a "Cellulose-encasedJDAM"as in "Clear and Present Danger"

Posted by raptor 2003-9-3 7:14:20 AM|| 2003-9-3 7:14:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 It would not be all that hard to carry out a "John Clark method" that looks like assasination by a rival Palestinian faction. Use a Dragunov SVD, scatter a few "Hamas" press releases, maybe take out a few members of the "rival faction" a day or two later and make it look like retaliation.

Or maybe just pay some rival faction to do it.

Or maybe the rival faction will do it anyway, and all we have to do is watch.

Sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt among your enemies can be fun.

Posted by Mike 2003-9-3 8:20:53 AM|| 2003-9-3 8:20:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 what the US wants is for Arafat to THINK we will allow Israel to expel him, if Abbas quits. So that Arafat will cave, and we wont HAVE to actually let Israel expel him, with all the PR and diplomatic costs to us of that.

This is a difficult game to play. The French were supposed to be scared into playing at the UN by the frightening prospect of US "unilateral" action - well they called our bluff, forcing us to call theirs. So the key is to frighten Arafat, but to use words that dont put our credibility on the line if we defies us and we decide not to support expulsion.

Past history suggests this admin is not quite subtle enough to pull this off (but then what admin has?) which in this case may be a good thing - since it will lead to expulsion.

Of course it would be best if we have our OTHER diplomatic ducks in a row before we do this. Could explain the timing of our making nice-nice with the UN on Iraq. With UK cutting off Hamas, their is diplomatic momentum our way in the Mideast - a compromise on Iraq could make it easier for Germany in particular to come to our side on the Palestinian situation.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-9-3 10:56:46 AM|| 2003-9-3 10:56:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 dot com

Im quite flattered. really :)

been eating to much sushi lately?

I tend to agree with your points. :)

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-9-3 10:58:43 AM|| 2003-9-3 10:58:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Sharon should sit down and watch the 3 Godfather movies paying close attention to the endings. Whack all the bad guys in one day, scare the bejeebers out of everyone else in the same day, and take the heat for one act rather than a dozen. That's the way to do it. Not a hellfire a day for weeks.

Let things go quiet, let them think they are friends again. Track where they are, find a way to get close to them, and send teams out dedicated to nailing the top bad guys. Then on the selected day whack 'em. Whack 'em with knives, guns and poison and if Mossad is really good they can make it look like other Pals did the dirty deed.

Posted by Yank 2003-9-3 11:27:40 AM|| 2003-9-3 11:27:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 I though people might be also interested in this opinion piece.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-9-3 11:31:53 AM|| 2003-9-3 11:31:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 LH - You're definitely the only person in Rantburg who is liberal and intelligent and readable and capable of debate - all at the same time! So, damnit, we listen to you! ;-)

I don't do fish unless it's fried. I'm sure you would consider my diet appalling, steak after steak after massage parlor after steak after girlfriend after steak - and everything rare - prolly cause your arteries (or something else!) to seize up on the spot!

We are 'twixt a rock and a hard place with Arafat - unless we just don't give a shit what anyone thinks anymore. The Boucher thunderbolt may indicate we're headed that way. I have to say that removing the UN / multilateralist / Phrog girdle would be an immense relief - to me, anyway. Sometimes I get the impression that you feel there's order where I see chaos, but no matter. There are interesting times afoot, no?

And BTW, keep after everyone - we need reality checks - but don't tell anyone I said that, K?

Posted by .com 2003-9-3 12:05:33 PM|| 2003-9-3 12:05:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Aris - Great link!

Card is well known to many of us - for his non-movie writing - and I hadn't seen this article, yet. Thx! And, of course, I think Card has summarized what many here and elsewhere have said - and then put his own special spin into play - which is intriguing, if a bit fanciful.

Regardless, he's right: if Dubya keeps his mouth shut (and State's, too) and leaves Israel to do what it must do then we may someday find out if there's a moderate majority, a silent majority, of Paleos who are currently captives of the terrorists. If so, and they generate the moxey to take control when the asshats are decimated, then they may finally get peace and a shot at having real lives. If not, well, no, nevermind -- I'll just wait and see and not prejudge.

Again, Thx for the link!

Posted by .com 2003-9-3 12:26:09 PM|| 2003-9-3 12:26:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Aris:

What .com said.

Posted by Mike 2003-9-3 12:49:57 PM|| 2003-9-3 12:49:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 LH wrote: Past history suggests this admin is not quite subtle enough to pull this off (but then what admin has?)

Um, maybe Bush is just going to do what he says? He has a habit of that.

Posted by Steve White 2003-9-3 1:40:55 PM|| 2003-9-3 1:40:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 SW - so what has dubya actually said regarding expelling Arafat?

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-9-3 2:22:15 PM|| 2003-9-3 2:22:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 good link Aris

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-3 4:49:52 PM|| 2003-9-3 4:49:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 I agree. Good link, Aris.

Posted by Ptah 2003-9-3 8:04:01 PM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-9-3 8:04:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Latest story sez Powell disgusted with Arafat:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6683504.htm

Posted by .com 2003-9-3 9:55:05 PM|| 2003-9-3 9:55:05 PM|| Front Page Top

22:47 stageleft
08:56 raptor
01:32 ZoGg
00:45 ZoGg
00:27 Anonymous
00:24 Lucky
00:12 Lucky
23:52 Lucky
23:40 Zhang Fei
23:38 Baba Yaga
23:35 Laurence of the Rats
23:12 steveerossa
23:11 Baba Yaga
23:04 Lucky
23:00 Lucky
22:54 Baba Yaga
22:52 Anonymous
22:45 Baba Yaga
22:32 tu3031
22:21 tu3031
22:08 Super Hose
21:59 .com
21:55 .com
21:43 john