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2004-11-15 Iraq
NBC Says Marine Shot Dead Wounded Iraqi Prisoner
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Posted by Destro 2004-11-15 6:35:16 PM|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Next thing you know the mainstream media will be comparing U.S. Marines to the Einzatzgruppen...

Self-hatred can lead to nowhere but the grave for this great American nation...
Posted by borgboy 2004-11-15 6:51:42 PM||   2004-11-15 6:51:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Destro - not Mike S?

As for the article's assertions, heavy sigh. Joe Twinkie has no clue - and still won't after reading this.

Batten down the hatches - here comes the broad brush of bullshit.
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 6:58:13 PM||   2004-11-15 6:58:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 FOX reported this. The gave much caveat to the as why he may have shot the guy. It's on Tape and will be dealt with by the military.

The guy could have been wearing a explosive vest. been laying on a grenade. He was breathing and faking being dead.

The military investigation will deal with it. The MSM needs to STFU.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-11-15 6:59:27 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-11-15 6:59:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 OK, so what if he popped a terrorist? Anyone see the video of the beheadings or the bodies hanging from the bridge? Seems that wasn't "too graphic" for broadcast on Al Jiz. Of course this is jumping to the conclusion that the Marine shot him in cold blood and didn't feel threatened.
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2004-11-15 7:03:56 PM||   2004-11-15 7:03:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 DU is all over this, as can be expected. Injured guy, shot in a freaking mosque. The backlash from this is going to be worse than the Abu Ghraib silliness.
Posted by Snavirt Thruse6487 2004-11-15 7:09:33 PM||   2004-11-15 7:09:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Excepting the question of what orders the Marines were operating under, I don't see what the issue is. It certainly wasn't a violation of the Geneva Conventions, since the conventions don't apply to the terrorists.

The press should -- but of course won't -- let this alone so the military can deal with it.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-11-15 7:12:32 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-11-15 7:12:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Concern about suicide bombers. The Marines know about suicide bombers and a causualty they thought was dead started moving. Could have easily been a suicide bomber going for the explosives trigger. Also, in the same story, they showed the aftermath of one booby trapped body that killed 1 Marine and wounded 5.
Posted by ed 2004-11-15 7:16:26 PM||   2004-11-15 7:16:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 SOD: you're right but they won't STFU. They won't because they have no clue how bad they lost in the election. They're still convinced they matter. Fox gets it. They run the story and do it right. If they try for another Abu Ghraib with this one it'll only add to the perception that they're just shills.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-11-15 7:18:06 PM||   2004-11-15 7:18:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Shit happens, that's war. If anyone had any idea on how many Jap/Nkorean/Chinese/VC/NVA pow's we whacked in our other respective wars the LLL's would do a circus flip and want to throw 80 yr old vet's into jail. I'm not saying it's right it just is what it is. War's a fucked up surreal experience. So Fuck the DU. Monday morning quarterbacking pussies. I'm so glad we didn't have the 24 hr MSM news cycle back in 1942, we'd of never made it to Iwo or Normandy.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-11-15 7:21:33 PM||   2004-11-15 7:21:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 My guess is that the guy had been up walking around, before the marines got there. Someone spotted the terrorist, and reported the mosque was reoccupied. When the Marines showed up, he played dead. Who knows how many lives were saved by shooting this scumbag.
Posted by Destro 2004-11-15 7:21:49 PM||   2004-11-15 7:21:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Robert Crawford. I'm with you on the Geneva Convention.That's why the Corps. will court martial the juggie,fine him a dollar,and send him home.No kidding.
Posted by crazyhorse  2004-11-15 7:24:01 PM||   2004-11-15 7:24:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Sites said the shot prisoner "did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way."

Did not appear... what the hell does that mean?

Perhaps the terrorist had a gun or explosives under him where the Sites could not see? Did Sites ask the marine why? Did he (Sites) refuse to report it?

Of course the MSM will be all over this jumping to conclusions with banner headlines for weeks and then bury what really happened on page c-47 lower lefthand corner small print...
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-11-15 7:26:35 PM||   2004-11-15 7:26:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 I just got through watching Harddick with Chris "LLL" Mathews and he was surprise looking for a excuse to blame the Marine. BTW, he had Left Wing Colonel, essentially, to justify his leaning.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-11-15 7:43:24 PM||   2004-11-15 7:43:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 This is what I demand to hear..."...After further review, the board has determined that Marine- - has acted within the rules of engagement and in fear of his safety and life; and that of his fellow soldiers. No additional action is warranted, and Marine - - is hearby ordered to return to duty!!".
Posted by smn 2004-11-15 7:43:41 PM||   2004-11-15 7:43:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 smn,

Damn fine news.
Thank God, Bush is President.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-11-15 7:46:05 PM||   2004-11-15 7:46:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 does anyone think the terrorist would have cared about killing the marine ? By the way, ain't that why they went there in the first place. I say give the man a medal.
Posted by smokeysinse 2004-11-15 7:56:18 PM||   2004-11-15 7:56:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 methinks Mr. Sites better watch his six, the Marines won't be watching it for him
Posted by Frank G  2004-11-15 7:58:37 PM||   2004-11-15 7:58:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 All right, it's time for this embedded crap to end. If the news outlets are going to just start shrieking at the first sign of anything that THEY think is unusual, then it's not worth the trouble of bringing them along.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-11-15 8:04:51 PM||   2004-11-15 8:04:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Well, at least the NYT can say they have seen a dead body in Fallujah now.
Posted by Destro 2004-11-15 8:17:00 PM||   2004-11-15 8:17:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Why do I have this aching desire to punch Mr. Sites of NBC?
Posted by Mark Z.  2004-11-15 8:34:17 PM||   2004-11-15 8:34:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Let me make this real personal. My Gos Son is a Marine. He is shipping out early next year. If he were in that room and faced with that situation, I would hope he would shoot first and check second.

These prissy reporters don't seem to understand that this combat against a ravenous, immoral enemy. There are no rules!
Posted by Doug De Bono  2004-11-15 8:35:56 PM|| [http://www.DouglasDeBono.com]  2004-11-15 8:35:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Hey, the most important point is that it wasn't a prisoner yet!
Posted by Asedwich  2004-11-15 8:54:02 PM||   2004-11-15 8:54:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I would have shot him too. The big mistake was not shooting the camerman while they were at it.
Posted by BillH 2004-11-15 9:04:13 PM|| [http://www.worldwar4.net]  2004-11-15 9:04:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Dammit...the Marine should have rolled a grenade into the room before entering! THAT is his only crime!
Posted by Justrand 2004-11-15 9:32:06 PM||   2004-11-15 9:32:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 The way I understand it one group of Marine stook the mosque and left five wounded. Another group was supposed to bring the wounded out so they could get medical attention. A third group arrived and saw the wounded guys, and from his comments didn't know they were previously captured and thought that at least one was faking being dead.

The guy who did the shooting was wounded in the face a day before so he might be a little touchy if that was the trick used to blast him.

My gut instinct from the report I read is that the guy will be cleared, and if the Arabs and Islamoids complain we can mention that the Marine failed to chop the man's head off while he was still alive so they should shut the hell up and let our internal judicial system deal with it.
Posted by RJ Schwarz 2004-11-15 9:44:20 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-11-15 9:44:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 RJS - I heard a slightly different version...

5 deaders and 5 wounded were left in a moskkk the day before - the site was considered neutralized - and the wounded were, by obvious implication, left to die or whatever.

Next day activity is noted at the moskkk (people seen moving around) and it's unclear whether there was any fire coming out. Then the Marines send another patrol to check it out. And the video picks up from there.

Leading with a couple of grenades would've been my inclination - these guys are gutsier and more hardened than that - they do the face-to-face thingy without hesitation - as the video showed. If they had been more chicken, like me, there would be no issue. Having to pay for their bravery and direct approach sucks beyond belief. Hesitation often kills, and suicide / booby-trapped jihadis is common knowledge among the troops, so he did The Right Thing, in urban warfare ROE, I believe. I hope someone with big brass and big stones stands up for this man when he stands before the other man at JAG.
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 9:53:35 PM||   2004-11-15 9:53:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 My opinions are, as usual, mixed. BUT NOT FLIP-FLOPPING! >:D

On the one hand, the description of the exact moments ("He’s fucking faking he’s dead. He faking he’s fucking dead," followed by an immediate shot) aren't flattering when it comes to his self-discipline, IMO. On the other hand, hesitation already got a Marine killed when terrorists in Falluja disguised themselves as Iraqi National Guardsmen to ambush Marines, so it makes sense both subjectively and objectively.

My verdict: An unfortunate incident, but acceptable. Make a note of it on his file, and put him back on the frontlines -- preferably in heavy combat where this won't be an issue and the reporters will be too busy pissing themselves to write such fluff.
Posted by Edward Yee  2004-11-15 10:01:39 PM||   2004-11-15 10:01:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 .com: On the one hand, the description of the exact moments ("He’s fucking faking he’s dead. He faking he’s fucking dead," followed by an immediate shot) aren't flattering when it comes to his self-discipline, IMO.

Don't really see that. The guy's scared out of his mind that the guerrilla is going to trip his explosive belt using his elbow, his fingers, whatever - and has a split second to react. I'm surprised he acted so fast. I would have been frozen a little longer.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-11-15 10:05:07 PM||   2004-11-15 10:05:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 ZF - EY wrote that, not me. I'm the guy who would've tossed grenades in before poking my head around the corner, heh.

EY? You're up!
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 10:28:41 PM||   2004-11-15 10:28:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 no uniform = killed dead and shot a couple more times. Grenade's ok - flamethrower preferred, but messy
Posted by Frank G  2004-11-15 10:32:52 PM||   2004-11-15 10:32:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Using the mosque for cover in the first place, as these unlawful combatants were clearly doing, is an unambiguous war crime. The Marine was serving summary judgment. Case closed.

How depraved is the LLL?
Well, their moral equivalency flying monkeys are all over this one.
To even get close to moral equivalency, the Marines would have to have dragged this guy into the street, cut off his head with a rusty bayonet, and posted video of the proceedings on their unit website.

To fully reach moral equivalency, however, they would have to torture him into identifying his completely innocent relatives, then behead the relatives and use the video in a recruiting ad.


Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-11-15 10:38:42 PM||   2004-11-15 10:38:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 AC - Bitch Slap! Damn that's righteous! Of course, as a dumb knuckle-dragging red-stater, I didn't understand a word of it, heh. ;-)
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 10:44:36 PM||   2004-11-15 10:44:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Why won't the news orgs embed themselves with the terrorists? They would get better quality footage by far.

Oh and, give this Marine a medal.
Posted by Rafael 2004-11-15 10:51:28 PM||   2004-11-15 10:51:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Where were the mass-media cries over the jihadists beheadings, burnings and scores of suicide bombers all directed at fellow Americans. We are in a war against terrorists.
The liberal media would rather attack the U.S. armed forces then the enemy because they are ticked off over Kerry getting beaten by the American voters placing Bush back in the White House.

This is whom we fight, Islamic terrorists.

Who is the leftist media fighting?
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-11-15 11:06:41 PM||   2004-11-15 11:06:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Hey, we should give Kevin Sites a break on this. He seems to have reported what he saw. This guy has balls of brass and is hardly anti-military. In Afghanistan he saved some lives with his quick thinking. The SF guys said so in "The Hunt For Bin Laden." Also, his blog, www.kevinsites.com, is pretty good. I think there are numerous mitigating circumstances, but shouldn't we allow for the possibility that this kid did a bad thing?
Posted by Tibor 2004-11-15 11:22:49 PM||   2004-11-15 11:22:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Somehow, I'm not quite as willing to give him a break when I read stuff like this at Kevin Sites blog:

So in some ways, embedded in this unit, I begin to feel I've betrayed the people that depend on me to be skeptical; to question the dominant powers and institutions of my nation and the actions it undertakes in the name of its citizens. I am not a military or American cheerleader, not a mouthpiece signed on to some institutional agenda whether I believe in it or not. I am here to ask the hard questions of the people who make the hardest decisions; ones that result in people dying or people being killed. I must remember as one journalist advised, "write in your notepad every day 'I am not one of them.'"
Posted by A Jackson 2004-11-15 11:42:41 PM||   2004-11-15 11:42:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 a good take - caught at LGF:
If the Marine was right that the Iraqi was feigning death, or if he drew a reasonable inference of the same, then shooting the wounded man first and asking questions later might well have been the correct thing to do. War is not like police work where an officer has a duty not to kill unless he absolutely has to. A soldier’s duty is to kill every enemy he can who is not actively trying to surrender. Feigning death is not trying to surrender, and a fighter in such circumstances could very well inflict terrible damage. Some of the fighters in Fallujah have been strapped with suicide bomber belts. In this circumstance, any covert activity, like feigning death, would seem to call for instant death.

Of course there may be more to the story. Maybe standing orders addressing such situations demand forbearance. Maybe both of the fighter’s hands were already blown off and surreptitious action was clearly impossible. NBC reports that the “prisoner” (I have to put that in quotes) “did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way,” but appearances can be deceiving. If the Marine detected deceit, then acting on the presumption that appearances ARE deceiving seems warranted. It is certainly not obvious that the Marine acted wrongly, never mind criminally.


Posted by Frank G  2004-11-15 11:45:02 PM||   2004-11-15 11:45:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Yet that, the police officer version as commonly understood by Jo Avg American with all its restraints thanks to TV and movies, is the one being subtly presented by the media thus far - implying automatic guilt. And Kevin Site's comments were the starting point and provided the cover.

Yo, Kevin, this isn't NYPD Blue, jerkoff - you should apologize for your statements - erroneously based upon idiotic assumptions in a war zone. Apologize or be forever associated with the Rather SeeBS New Yellow Times genre of asshat MSMism.
Posted by .com 2004-11-15 11:56:53 PM||   2004-11-15 11:56:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Why would one of the Marines exclaim, not once but twice, that this dude was faking? I think the Marines were briefed beforehand on exactly this type of scenario. In such a situation, and in these exact cicrumstances, what other action could be taken except to shoot the f%cking faker in the head?

I could see it now: "This guy is faking!" "Ok, cordon off the area! Call the negotiators! Send in the robot! Bomb sniffing dogs!!"
Posted by Rafael 2004-11-16 12:05:06 AM||   2004-11-16 12:05:06 AM|| Front Page Top

00:14 JosephMendiola
00:05 Rafael
23:58 JosephMendiola
23:56 .com
23:52 someone
23:49 someone
23:49 Frank G
23:47 A Jackson
23:45 .com
23:45 Frank G
23:44 A Jackson
23:42 A Jackson
23:37 Alaska Paul
23:37 .com
23:36 A Jackson
23:32 Dishman
23:28 phil_b
23:23 TopMac
23:22 Tibor
23:20 Frank G
23:15 Alaska Paul
23:07 CrazyFool
23:06 Mark Espinola
23:06 Kalle (kafir forever)









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