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2004-05-02 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Tresho 2004-05-02 3:34:55 PM|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sigh. I guess there's something to admire regards how Pipes has finally, slowly, deliberately, logically, and finally come full circle regards Islam. He was once almost an apologist. Now he's almost truth-telling, though I wish he'd add more "ooomph" to it. Perhaps it's coming, just at his own pace of acceptance.

18 months ago I railed against him once for being too soft - a sucker for their public blather when the reality was, literally, bloody obvious. Now, with reservations, I applaud some of what he writes -- his long experience and deep knowledge of the RoP is a powerful force, currently stil nascent. Someday he'll reach the obvious conclusion: that missing 80-85 percent that he says aren't directly involved are, in fact, implicit supporters...

Perhaps, then, he'll "out" these fuckers and call a spade a spade. At the moment, well, he's still prattling on their relative innocence. Sigh redux.

Posted by .com 2004-05-02 6:41:39 PM|| 2004-05-02 6:41:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 .com, you're a smart guy, and the Defeat at Falluajh has me inordinantly depressed, so it is maybe not fair of me to ask this question, But...

15% hardcore islamists, plus 85% implicit supporters, equals a vary difficult problem. I just don't see any way out of the box that we are in. Western society, western ethics & world view will simply not allow the kind of responses that...seem necessary and called for.

The truth is that not even I am entirely comfortable getting behind, "Going Medieval." Maybe Pipes has it correct, there will be an, Educuation by Murder, but this would inevitably seem to be a long, bloody and painful process, as educuations tend to be.

Well....Sigh, thrice more.

Best wishes,

Posted by Traveller 2004-05-02 8:11:21 PM|| 2004-05-02 8:11:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I completely agree with Pipes writes here. One thing that I've noticed about Islam is that, unlike it's communism compatriots who were willing to wait generations to destroy from within to achieve their utopia, the islmamists are not patient. More like facists, they want it all right now.

So, although the LLL initially greeted them as enthusiastic partners in their blame America game, even they are beginning to realize they have invited cold blooded murderer's into their midst.

Communists socialists and social misfits were content with the power and belonging that they could achieve immediately by joining "secret groups" and even getting positions in local/state/national governments and then just wait it out, in their comfortable homes, for the revolution that would bring Utopia. The George Galloway, Michael Moore types were happy to spew anti-American blame as they collected their checks from those who were happy to support them. LLL were content to be useful idiots in exchange for the "cool factor" that was granted them ..allowing them to look down their noses at the simpletons who couldn't grasp the nuance of their greatness.

In a sense, the communists were like heart disease - you could have the french fries today because tomorrow or soon... you'd start your healthful living plan. But the Islamist's are like an acute illness - if you don't address it today, it will kill you tomorrow.

Muslims simply want to rush in and make it happen now. There is no faith or utopia..just a bunch of stinky Jews and infidels - like rats in your house that need to be killed.

As the LLL begins to realize the evil of those they have welcomed, they will be forced to join forces with the rest of civilized society for their own survival.

Posted by b 2004-05-02 8:36:10 PM|| 2004-05-02 8:36:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I think Pipes had absolutely hit the nail on the thumb - he is correct - a world war is already underway, but only one side is aware of it and fighting it - the Islamasists.

But - the other combatant in this world war - the rest of the civilized world - will eventually figure it out. It is going to create a terrible carnage - "going Medieval" is probably a pretty good term. Many fairly innocuous (if not utterly "innocent") Muslims are going to be destroyed in the campaign to erradicate the Islamacists - that's a shame, but - war is hell - each of the other world wars killed a lot of innocents as well.

And - this world war will be a battle of total annihilation - and only one side can emerge standing. I sure hope that the modern world wins - otherwise we will be living in the sort of world that the sci-fi writers used to have fun with - ala Mad Max, Star Trek's "Coms and Yangs," the H.G. Wells "Time Machine," the "Dune" series - except this time it will be for real.

We - the modern world - are at war - globally, irretrievably, and with our survival at stake. We just don't know it. And we are too nice to do what needs to be done. It is a battle of annihilation - and the sooner we start annihilating, the better the outcome will be for us. I.e. - if the extremists have taken over 80% of the mosques, then it is time to quickly obliterate every mosque - and obliterate every madrass and dowah along with the mosques - larval extremists being fair game - it is, after all, a BATTLE OF ANNIHILATION.

We need to stop agonizing, stop apologizing, and - GET ON WITH IT. The slaughter needs to start. THEY have long ago started their side of the slaughter - albeit pretty puny on the grand scale. What are we going to do - wait until the Islamasists in a few more countries (beyond Pakistan) finish building their nuclear arsenals?

Start with obliteration of the House of Saud - and completly obliterate Mecca and Medina. Turn Israel loose to create a sterile zone of about 1000 kilometers all around their borders. Tell Musharraf to expunge the Islamasists from his country, or we'll do it for him.

Turn infestations such as Karbala, Najaf, and Fallujah into awe-inspiring examples of what modern technology can do to 8th century barbarians.

Ahhh .... after letting that rant out, I feel better. Rantburg is good for the soul!

The Annihilator

Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-05-02 8:39:15 PM|| 2004-05-02 8:39:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Trav - Hey, where've you been? You do ask pithy questions, Lol! I want to quickly run away from the "smart" thing - I've just seen these guys up close and personal, and it's an ugly nasty Pollyanna-gang-rape experience I don't wish on anyone. I went there for my Arabian Advanture. I came home almost exactly a year ago thoroughly disabused of such foolishness.

As for going medievel, well, the fact that we discuss this - with the discomfort you indicate - is proof that we have insulated ourselves in normal life from some hard realities that are kept at bay by a thin gossamer layer of civility. Most don't have Clue One - and that's because our kickass Military, our proxies, handle the throwbacks for us. You can say the same of our awesome Police - they deal with the trash and, as best they can / are allowed, they insulate us from the nasty reality that some "humans" are already medievel.

Meeting it head on with like action is coming. What proves you're a civilized man is your response. I echo it up to the point of us vs them. Sadly, for it will be an ugly eye-opener for most of us, they insist on this equation.

Atomic Conspiracy has even taken this to the next level today in another thread: not only will we be forced eventually to meet them in like, we will be forced to meet our own loonies with force when their fragile twisted grip on reality is challenged this election season. I'm afraid his insight might be accurate.

I am worried... but not by the medievel. Not to be too cute about it, I am worried that if we falter and lose our will, such as electing some idiot like Skeery, when push come to shove we will be forced to go modern on them - genocidally modern. The number of reality-challenged people in the West who would never accept that it's us vs. them will really lose their cookies over that... and AC's prescience may be extended to a much wider civil conflict. Just imagine.

I'd like to hear what you think - you always come at issues from a different perspective. I apologize, but I can't locate the thread in which AC posted his prediction of civil violence.

Posted by .com 2004-05-02 8:40:06 PM|| 2004-05-02 8:40:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Oops - two kickass posts came in while I was abusing my keyboard! Definitely some hardcore idea in them, too.

One thing I left out of my post: I don't consider Fallujah even remotely "over" - eventually this experiment will likely fail as the jihadis win over the "more rational" Muslims in Salah's force. That has been the pattern everywhere, thus far, and why I don't buy the "moderate Muslim" myth. We'll see, but I wouldn't put a $2 bet on it working out well... And note that our Marines haven't gone anywhere - the cordon is still intact and will remain that way until the experiment plays out.

Best Regs, Bros & Sistahs!

Posted by .com 2004-05-02 8:45:47 PM|| 2004-05-02 8:45:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I think our conception of civility and warfare will be changed dramatically by the Arab experience: Islamic Heroesâ¢ who slaughter women and children and NGO helpers, while hiding behind women and children

Posted by Frank G 2004-05-02 9:04:18 PM|| 2004-05-02 9:04:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Any adult alive that didn't get "educated" on 9-11 may well never understand how this is another World War.

I'm still hoping that somebody here can suggest a credible deterrent to Islamist terror that is better than what I have mentioned here in other posts. One had better be found real d@mn soon to have the least hope of preserving any semblance of what we currently enjoy as a world.

The only alternative to NBC retaliation-in-kind against Islam's Holy shrines would be for an international coalition to take military possession of Saudi Arabia and thereby control the sites physically. If this world is held permanent hostage to random ultra-violence by one religion then a deterrent is per force going to be associated with any nexus of that faith. These shrines are the single commonality within all Islam's sphere of believers. Only a lever against every member of Islam will achieve the desired threat against those specific individuals who would embrace violent jihad.

While still representing a defilement, physical occupation would at least avoid all permanent desecration of these sites via NBC contamination. The cost of operating the military cordon would be compensated by appropriated oil exports. The satisfying vengeance of obliterating an Islamic shrine, even in light of atomic terror attack is a little too bloodthirsty. We need to take over the shrines now and hold them equal hostage. Barring that, NBC retaliation-in-kind is demanded.

Again, I welcome any other suggestions regarding how to credibly deter Islamist terror. There isn't much time left and few people recognize it. This isn't "the-sky-is-falling," this is a solid in-your-face, "some major city is going to take it right in the shorts real soon" if we fail to find some way.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-02 10:16:09 PM|| 2004-05-02 10:16:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 "...Again, I welcome any other suggestions regarding how to credibly deter Islamist terror..."
We've told you, asshat Zenster: Re-elect President Bush.
Period.
4 MORE YEARS.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-02 10:19:32 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-02 10:19:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 My first encounter with Pipes was through WND, when CAIR protested his nomination to the Peace think-tank. Since that time it has become more apparent what CAIR feared, the truth spoken rationally. I hope he has several German Shepherds and a Magnum at the house.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-05-04 12:43:00 AM|| 2004-05-04 12:43:00 AM|| Front Page Top

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