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2004-08-20 Iraq-Jordan
Ex-Saddam fighters aid Shi'ite militia in Najaf fray
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Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-20 8:54:50 PM|| || Front Page|| [11140 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 How nice we liberated these hate-filled Arab cretins from a brutal dictator so they could unite and kill American GI's. Hello, anyone home in the neocon ivory tower called "winning hearts and minds" ???? A pro-West strongman dictator to rule these Sunni/Shiite losers is looking better and better each day. This Iraq War shows why we must forge ahead and liberate Muslims in Sudan and in Iran, everywhere... are there down trodden Muslims in Antarctica? If so, let's go liberate them from penguin rule ...
Saddam’s mainly Sunni officer corps and the Shi’ites who make up the Mahdi’s Army long have been hostile to one another, but could cause more trouble for the government of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi by joining forces...Col. al-Janabi, who, unlike most Iraqi insurgents, had no qualms about giving his name. "We had to stand by our Shi’ite brothers in Najaf, who stood by us in Fallujah," he said..."We welcomed the mujahideen of Fallujah who came, without being asked to come, to help us out in training the fighters who lack experience in using weapons," said Sheikh Kudair al-Ansari, who runs Sheik al-Sadr’s office in Kufa, just outside Najaf. While he spoke, militiamen swarmed around trucks unloading AK-47 assault rifles that had been smuggled into the city under a load of watermelons. Minibuses from the southern towns of Amara, Kut and Diwaniya disgorged more young men who gathered outside the Kufa mosque and chanted: "By our blood and souls, we sacrifice for you, Muqtada." Under Saddam’s rule, Iraqis chanted the same slogan ending with the word "Saddam."..."We could not protect his father, Mohammed al-Sadr, from Saddam, but now we can protect his son from the Americans and the Jews." During this week’s fighting in Najaf, there also was evidence that some U.S.-trained police have been cooperating with the Mahdi’s Army militiamen. Near the mosque, four uniformed policemen were seen standing beside their car with three militiamen. Hidden behind a building, they were listening to their radios and informing the militiamen of their fellow officers’ movements. "I have four cousins in the Mahdi’s Army," one of the police officers explained. "According to the proverb, ’My brother and I are against my cousin, but my cousin and I are against the foreigner.’
Posted by rex 2004-08-20 11:04:50 PM||   2004-08-20 11:04:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 It's a hard world to get a break in, all the good things have been taken.

And you would have us... what, rex?
Posted by .com 2004-08-20 11:07:40 PM||   2004-08-20 11:07:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 And you would have us... what, rex
Well, for one thing I would fire Wolfowitz and Firth after the November election so their airy fairy neocon ideology does not get us into other liberation of Muslims junkets. Then I would start making plans to get our butts out of Sunni/Shiite Iraq and cut a deal with the Kurds to build a military base there instead of Baghdad asap, so the Sunni/Shiite Iraqis can start killing each other again as has been their wont historically instead of our GI's. This neocon experiment in democracacizing the ME has been a mind boggling failure. Here's the goal of AQ and we have taken the bait when we did regime change in Iraq. Let's wise up and smell the camel dung:
"The Al-Qa'ida organization's goal from its inception is to sow conflict between the United States and the Islamic world. I remember that Sheikh Osama bin Laden used to say that we can not, as an organization, continue in quality operations, but rather we must aspire to commit operations that will drag the United States into a regional confrontation with the Islamic peoples." Source: tipper's article today re: interview with OBL's body guard
Posted by rex 2004-08-20 11:25:54 PM||   2004-08-20 11:25:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 rex - author of "runnn awwwaayyyyyy"
Posted by Frank G  2004-08-20 11:31:03 PM||   2004-08-20 11:31:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Super Hose I disagree. I think it's just a more sophisticated brand of propaganda. It's like congac v/s brandy...it goes down smooter.

Lots of truth...but here's the lie:

"We could not protect his father, Mohammed al-Sadr, from Saddam, but now we can protect his son from the Americans and the Jews."

Get it...Americans and Jews are Sadaam like Evil dictators.

Rex bought it, hook line and sinker. I have to admit...it's pretty good. I rate it an A-.
Posted by B 2004-08-20 11:33:49 PM||   2004-08-20 11:33:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 smoother
Posted by B 2004-08-20 11:34:19 PM||   2004-08-20 11:34:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 rex: How nice we liberated these hate-filled Arab cretins from a brutal dictator so they could unite and kill American GI's. Hello, anyone home in the neocon ivory tower called "winning hearts and minds" ???? A pro-West strongman dictator to rule these Sunni/Shiite losers is looking better and better each day. This Iraq War shows why we must forge ahead and liberate Muslims in Sudan and in Iran, everywhere... are there down trodden Muslims in Antarctica? If so, let's go liberate them from penguin rule ...

Unclench. This will work - in time. It took six or seven years before the first postwar German or Japanese elections were held. Iraq's new leadership is going to be under the stern supervision of Uncle Sam for the next few decades, regardless of the PR. Think of Iraq as an American puppet government, just like West Germany or Japan, and you'll get the flavor of what we're attempting there. There's nothing neo about this effort, even the lofty rhetoric. Think back to the Italian, Japanese and German occupations - all were couched in high-sounding rhetoric, but ultimately, Uncle Sam called the shots. We might talk about liberating Muslims in Sudan and Iran, but the whole point of an invasion would be to *kill* Muslims who might threaten us and are engaged in terror-funding or empire-building.* Rex can't seem to deal with hypocrisy - this is why he's not equipped to be a diplomat. We weren't in Iraq to find WMD or liberate Iraqis - we were there to destroy Saddam Hussein and warn other Muslim regimes against sponsoring terror. A pull-out destroys the deterrent effect to other Muslim countries.

* Note that even in WWII, the US did not fight to "liberate" Europe - it fought to prevent Germany from dominating the entire continent. Same thing happened in Asia, where it fought to prevent European empires from falling into Japanese hands. And that's an important reason for fighting wars - keeping resources out of enemy hands. This was why the Monroe Doctrine came about - to deny resources in the Americas to the European powers.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-08-20 11:53:37 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-08-20 11:53:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Rex bought it, hook line and sinker
Sorry but your point is lost on me. Why look for hidden meaning/sybolism in the comments of Iraqis? They are telling you that the the US invasion of Iraq has united them and driven away their former mutal hatred of one another. How is that so difficult to understand? That is typical of Arab Muslims. They hate and kill one another until a "foreigner" is in their midst ie. us Then they band together. Haven't you travelled to the ME?

rex - author of "runnn awwwaayyyyyy"
And your solution would be????... "stay forever in Iraq and let GI's be sacrificed so no one could accuse Americans who live comfortably stateside of a Vietnam withdrawal". Smart, real smart. What exactly do you hope to accomplish by staying in Iraq indefinitely? oh, right, I forgot the neocon schtick...win hearts and minds...LOL...
Posted by rex 2004-08-20 11:57:21 PM||   2004-08-20 11:57:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Zh, we fought WWII to completely dominate and vanquish the enemy. We did not liberate Japan, Germany, and Japan. We flattened them. We brought them to submission. And after we brought them to their knees, then we helped rebuild them. When we invaded Iraq, we thought that only Saddam was the problem and he needed to be vanquished. We went into a complex situation that had ZERO relation ship to the enemy nations of WWII but we thought we could apply the same Marshall Plan. We were wrong. Wake up. This Iraq occupation is a mess and we should get our asses out of there as quickly as possible. If you don't believe me, then you should believe Tommy Frank, a military genius. He said the longer we occupy Iraq, the more counter productive it will be. Franks said we should stay no longer than 5 years in Iraq. Your idea of wishing and hoping till time immemoriam for a sow's skin to transform itself into a smooth leather handbag is naive and dangerous to our troops' lives. The Iraqis will never throw roses at us only bombs.
Posted by rex 2004-08-21 12:10:43 AM||   2004-08-21 12:10:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Have you read the Bush Doctrine? Do you get it?

Truth is, all you've actually said so far is what you'd un-do, i.e. you want out of the nation-building business, as you perceive it. Then what?

Your posts normally, you last being a rare exception, are talking point chunks. I doubt very seriously if you write extemporaneously. I wish mine were as polished, heh - no one will be accusing me of such a thing, lol!

So you want out. That base you'll have up in KurdWerld is courtesy of the hated neocons. Okay, then where do we go from there? Is there a plan of some sort? What about Iran, SA, AlQ, etc.

Without resorting to the pre-digested pkgd shit, in a few sentences, what then?
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 12:11:40 AM||   2004-08-21 12:11:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 I doubt very seriously if you write extemporaneously
Believe it, I write off the cuff.

Is there a plan of some sort? What about Iran, SA, AlQ, etc
We need to develop alternate sources of energy and fast. The last few articles I have read quoting Muslim "chauvinist" spokespersons always emphasizes their smirky confidence that because they have oil they have power over Western first world nations. We need to pull the rug from under them. The other thing I have read is their oozing confidence in their numbers. This may sound heartless but I'sd say we need to let them starve-no more foreign aid handouts. No more liberating interventions. Zero. Put a 5 year moratorium on immigration and then renew it for another 5 years. In 10 years Muslims will kill more Muslims than our own military would ever be given permission to do. We may need to ultimately do the Hiroshima thingie to Mecca to get everyone's attention that we don't want trouble and after every act of terrorism against an American target we may need to do a Hiroshima of a Muslim city until they realize we are "culturally insensitive"
infidels, not just infidels.

Posted by rex 2004-08-21 12:24:36 AM||   2004-08-21 12:24:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Aw c'mon - don't you follow the reality of technology? Ain't gonna be any magic fucking energy bullet. Whatever is decided upon will be a 20+ year plan. Read den Beste if you doubt me - he constructs arguments you can wail on all day and not dent.

Hmmmm...

Simply put, you're isolationist and wish to withdraw into Fortress Amerika. Okay, I just wanted to know. It's not my choice, but it's a choice. Unfortunately, that first item (energy) will make a hash of the plan. Not to mention several other essential raw resources which we have to go to nasty places to get...
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 12:34:58 AM||   2004-08-21 12:34:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 B, much of what you find at IWPR's sit eis more mundane, but all of it contains quotes. Most of the collections in quotes vary in point of view. Some quotes are anti-American, but why would you expect not to get an anti-American point of view from a guy being trained to kill Americans in Fallujah. What I've found from the IWPR guys that interview inside loonyville places like Fallujah is that the jounalists choose some of the most obviously deranged quotes and present them without comment so that the looneys are portrayed as loony. I dislike BBC coverage in particular because it tends to dress up the looniness in credibility often including sympathetic banter by the "journalist."
Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-21 12:41:21 AM||   2004-08-21 12:41:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 I hate having our troops involved in Iraqi politics. I can't put anything more to it than that. I just don't like fighting a PC war devoted to senses that I find backward. If Allawi is the guy, step up and be the guy.

War is funky. We've been at it for awhile. Our thoughts are being catalogued. History will have access to them. I'm with rex, Im with dot, I'm with all you mofos.

So, just what does victory look like? Who is the loser? What does losing mean, to who?

Is Iraq now a front line for islam. Do we defeat that or understand that.
Posted by Lucky 2004-08-21 12:49:53 AM||   2004-08-21 12:49:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Rex, we shoudl leave Iraq when a large percentage of the nutcases are dead. This is not a quagmire. It's a turkey shoot with a few breaks in the action to satisfy the humanitarians still watching. I am glad that the Olympics are on. The election will help distract those without guts while the miltary takes care of business.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-21 12:50:09 AM||   2004-08-21 12:50:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 The election will help distract those without guts while the miltary takes care of business.
Would that be so. Unfortunately, the WH and Congress are not so easily distracted, and it's these "sensitive" folks who fret about "innocent" Iraqi casualties not J.Q. Public.

Let's face it. The military does not have free rein in Iraq. It's State Dept and Karl Rove and unfortunately born again GWB who want to give Iraqis yet another chance, yet another truce, yet another cease fire plan which spells disaster in the end.

don't you follow the reality of technology? Ain't gonna be any magic fucking energy bullet. Whatever is decided upon will be a 20+ year plan.
We don't have that much time. By 2020 China will have more demand for fossil fuel than the USA and if there's a choice to sell oil to America or to China, guess who the Arabs will favor with their oil business?
Posted by rex 2004-08-21 1:11:36 AM||   2004-08-21 1:11:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Well, I guess we're just fucked cuz the Magic Wand quit on us some time back.
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 1:15:19 AM||   2004-08-21 1:15:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 If the Arabs don't change very fast they won't be in the oil business in 2020.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-21 1:17:19 AM||   2004-08-21 1:17:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Welcome to the Republic of Eastern Arabia. Don't forget to wipe your feet! For the Khobar Hilton, turn left, for Empty Quarter Disney, turn right.
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 1:24:28 AM||   2004-08-21 1:24:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Please use the green trash cans labeled "Saudi"
Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-21 1:26:33 AM||   2004-08-21 1:26:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Lol! "Saudi, OutHouse of"

The Shammary tribe finally gets to laugh at the Sudari boyz, heh.
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 1:28:31 AM||   2004-08-21 1:28:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 #8 They are telling you that the the US invasion of Iraq has united them and driven away their former mutal hatred of one another.

Patience, rex. Muslims are past masters at killing each other. As we consolidate our position and construct truly secure bases, the Iraqi Sunnis and Shi'ites will rediscover their favorite pastime and begin offing themselves in large numbers once again. Bet on it. If America really wants to have any sort of actual security, opening this can of worms whup@ss is pretty much the only way of doing it. The isolationist policy you are touting is precisely the one that will facilitate a decline into nuclear madness you similarly predict. While I support a nuclear deterrent to terrorism, we need to fight it with boots on the ground. Our casualties in Iraq have yet to come at all close to our loss from the 9-11 atrocity. There is vital work whomping that needs doing next door in Iran and Syria. Quite simply, Iraq remains the best forward base to do it from.

I'll ask you this, rex. How will we be better able to quell Iran's nuclear ambitions once we have pulled back onto our own shores?
Posted by Zenster 2004-08-21 1:55:19 AM||   2004-08-21 1:55:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 How will we be better able to quell Iran's nuclear ambitions once we have pulled back onto our own shores?
Do you think having our military fighting off growing Iraqi resistence 24/7 is a good deterrance to Iran's nuclear ambitions?

While I support a nuclear deterrent to terrorism, we need to fight it with boots on the ground
We don't have enough boots to fight daily multiplying Muslim fighters in the ME. It's a numbers game and we don't have the numbers nor do we have the political will to use our military technology. Our politicians worry about losing the vote, about alienating "good" Muslim allies, No one in political office in the USA has what it takes to have America prevail in the ME.

Israel has the balls to take care of Iran because for Israel it's a life and death struggle. Whether it's GWB or Kerry in the WH, neither man has the courage of Sharon. Why bother posturing only to back down and "negotiate" in the ME, because that's all our military will be allowed short term to do in the ME, I'm sorry to say.

Let's put our money and energy into developing alternatives to fossil fuel and to protecting our own borders from terrorists. The worst is yet to come. We will shortly be in a position of barely being able to defend ourselves, never mind protecting or liberating others.
Posted by rex 2004-08-21 2:17:12 AM||   2004-08-21 2:17:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 .com, I read some great stuff from Salam at his new blog, Shut up you fat whiner!

I have not read his blog before but his page includes an account of tooling around Sadr City with some Mahdi that think he is part or Al Jazeera. One of the Mahdi even teaches him a methodoloy of firing an RPG found without a launcher.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-21 2:26:32 AM||   2004-08-21 2:26:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 SH - Whoa - that's an interesting site! I'm still reading, but something on the first page has stopped me cold:
The guy we saw playing with explosives told us that just an hour ago a delegation from Falluja has arrived with 30 cars full of supplies “in support of the struggle of their Shia brothers in Najaf and Sadir City”.

So much for any notion of an effective Fallujah cordon. 30 carloads of bomb-making gear. Sigh.

Fred - if you see this, you should check it out. The way this guy writes makes his blog suitable as a story source - the guy can paint a damned picture with the best, and he's in the middle of it - and knows it's insane to be in the middle of it. Very engrossing reading!


Thanx SH!!!
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 2:46:08 AM||   2004-08-21 2:46:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 rex: Zh, we fought WWII to completely dominate and vanquish the enemy. We did not liberate Japan, Germany, and Japan. We flattened them. We brought them to submission. And after we brought them to their knees, then we helped rebuild them.

And it still took close to a decade for the first free elections, even as Uncle Sam basically kept them on a short leash for decades. Only when the Germanies reunited and the Cold War ended, did Germany and Japan become fully sovereign. We have been in Iraq 1 year, with a fraction of the costs or casualties of WWII, and rex says it can't be done. Is he serious?
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-08-21 2:51:24 AM|| [http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-08-21 2:51:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Does rex realize that flattening Germany and Japan cost the lives of 600,000 men, and half of America's industrial output for four years? Iraq is a bare 0.5% of American output and a fraction of US casualties in Vietnam, never mind WWII.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-08-21 2:53:34 AM|| [http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-08-21 2:53:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 SH / Fred - It's Salam Pax - under new blogomgmt, I guess. No wonder the patter was so smooth.
Posted by .com 2004-08-21 2:58:47 AM||   2004-08-21 2:58:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 Iraq is a bare 0.5% of American output and a fraction of US casualties in Vietnam, never mind WWII.
The fight has just begun, ZH. We'll be wacking Islamic moles for years to come and we don't have the numbers to continue the battle on more than 3 fronts max. And Islamic militants aren't in this battle just to kill our troops, their aim is to destroy our dominance and power. Read the words of OBL's body guard and reflect upon the future:
"The Al-Qa'ida organization's goal from its inception is to sow conflict between the United States and the Islamic world. I remember that Sheikh Osama bin Laden used to say that we can not, as an organization, continue in quality operations, but rather we must aspire to commit operations that will drag the United States into a regional confrontation with the Islamic peoples."
Posted by rex 2004-08-21 3:02:39 AM||   2004-08-21 3:02:39 AM|| Front Page Top

00:15 Sarah Girl
10:52 Shipman
07:31 rkb
03:02 rex
02:58 .com
02:53 Zhang Fei
02:51 Zhang Fei
02:46 .com
02:33 Super Hose
02:26 Super Hose
02:17 rex
02:10 .com
02:09 Trolling for Allan
01:55 Zenster
01:28 .com
01:26 True German Ally
01:24 .com
01:17 True German Ally
01:16 .com
01:15 .com
01:13 Lucky
01:12 True German Ally
01:11 rex
01:04 .com









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