Article

2004-08-25 Russia

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Posted by Fred 2004-08-25 00:04|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I don't yet see any news of the 2 airline downings on the Russian news sites: itar-tass, izvestia, mosnews. It's almost 9 AM Moscow time. The bus stop bombing on the front page, so I wonder what is going on?

Posted by ed 2004-08-25 12:43:23 AM|| 2004-08-25 12:43:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Itar-tass russian site has the story. I had the english pages bookmarked. It's not much but here is a machine translation of itar-tass:
MOSCOW, on 25 August. /Korr.ITAR- TASS Vladimir katasonov/. two large plane crashes occurred in the territory of Russia. As reported korr.ITAR- TASS the chief for the administration of the information OF MCHS [EMERGENCY AND DISASTER RELIEF MINISTRY] of Russia the sea-scape Of ryklina, in the environs of Tula into 22:56 msk on Tuesday fell the aircraft "Tu-134", that followed by voyage Moscow- Volgograd. On its board were located 35 passengers even 8 crew members.

According to her, the fallen aircraft is already discovered not far from the populated area Of buchalki, Kimovskeyeo region of Tula region.

Practically simultaneously with this, also into Tuesday into 22:59 msk, hearth to the Rostov-on- Don propal from the radars aircraft "Tu-154". Liner carried out the voyage of Moscow- Sochi. 44 people were located on its board.

The President RF Vladimir Putin was immediately informed about the tragedy with the aircraft. He charged FSB to begin immediately comprehensive investigation.

Posted by ed 2004-08-25 12:49:35 AM|| 2004-08-25 12:49:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Best source right now is gazeta.ru (Russian only but if you run it through an automatic translation service you get this:

The act of terrorism similar to an air crash

The Russian authorities are close to recognizing tragedy of today's night as act of terrorism. According to sources, before destruction the crew That - 154 has had time to submit a signal about capture of the plane by terrorists.

As informed early in the morning agency " Interfax ", on disappeared in the Rostov area That - 154 was worked with the signal system about capture of an air vessel. Officially to reporters nobody has confirmed this information, however they refer to a source " in one of power structures ". This information corresponds with indications of eyewitnesses of falling of other plane - what has fallen three minutes earlier in 800 kilometers to the west, in the Tula area. Employees of the Ministry of Emergency Measures have transferred their words that falling was preceded with strong explosion.

Thus, the version about act of terrorism becomes the basic.
For the present not projasneny all details of double tragedy in the Russian sky (for example under the message of "Interfax" SOS has been sent at 23.04 though was considered earlier, that the plane has disappeared from screens of radars at 22.59).

Here that occured today at night at airport Domodedovo, whence with an interval 40 minutes both planes, and in the sky above the Tula and Rostov areas have taken off.
Two planes - That - 134 near Tula and That - 154 near Rostov - were broke practically in one and too time. First of them has fallen at 22 o'clock 56 minutes, the second - in three minutes. Both these of the plane have taken off from Moscow airport Domodedovo hardly probable not one after another.

The first - That - 134 companies " Volgas - Aviaekspress " has taken off for Volgograd approximately at 22.30. On his board there were 34 passengers and 8 members of crew. The plane, apparently has already had time to gain height and has left on, so-called "echelon", that is has passed to the most safe, from the point of view of statistics of aviation accidents, to a stage of flight. However, in area of village Bushelaki of the Tula area (180 km from Moscow) onboard something has taken place also communication with plane has interrupted. More she was not restored. In the second the regional branch of the Ministry of Emergency Measures on the Tula area informed one o'clock in the morning, that " the tail part of the fallen plane is found and that alive people is not revealed ". According to the application of the same source, eyewitnesses assert, that falling of the plane " was preceded with strong explosion ". The second victim for this night the plane has taken off from airport Domodedovo for 40 minutes earlier. Under the schedule, flight 1047 Moscow - Sochi airlines " Siberias " should fly up at 21.25. However small delays with a start of planes happen constantly and, most likely, this plane has risen in air approximately at 21.40. In Domodedovo 38 passengers aboard have risen. The structure of crew included 3 pilots and 5 stewards.

Thus, were lost 88 person the last night: near 42 Tula and 46 - near Rostov.
The plane fly in Sochi has fallen in 138 km from Rostov and data on it less than about the first plane. Rescuers have not reached yet a place of accident and what fragments are not found yet. " The center of ignition " is found out only. However this plane also was on the "quietest" site of flight - up to a place of landing there were still almost 400 km and the plane has not started at all decrease.

The Russian authorities in the standard image have reacted to this emergency - to president Putin have reported, that ordered to begin investigation, later law enforcement bodies have reported on amplification of security measures at the airports of the country.
What or special measures from the party pravohranitelnyh bodies up to one o'clock in the morning it has not been noticed. As the correspondent " has transferred from airport Domodedovo Newspapers. Ru ", between midnight and one o'clock in the morning, from Domodedovo last "wave" of flights, mainly on the east of the country departed. After two one o'clock in the morning intensity of starts falls almost up to zero and, likely, therefore the management of the airport has not closed it.

And by character of accidents, the airports will be the basic place of investigation. The last some hours of a life of the "Volgograd" plane (which it was broke near Tula) are known almost for certain: it has arrived to Moscow about 9 one o'clock in the evening and has lead on parking of only one and a half hour. The "Sochi" plane (fallen under Rostov) also was in Domodedovo. Airline " Siberia " also has a flight from Volgograd. The plane That - 154 of this city has arrived to Moscow on August, 24 in the morning. However the press-secretary of the company Evgenie Filjanin has declared " to the Newspaper. Ru ", that the broken plane with onboard number 85556 was not on August, 24 in Volgograd.

Thus, if the version of act of terrorism will be recognized convincing, under suspicion there are all services (both technical, and serving passengers) airport Domodedovo and other ports where there were these planes recently

The official information from airport Domodedovo, and also from airlines " Volgas - Aviaekspress " and "Siberia" very little - night time and scales of tragedy affect. Management Domodedovo has only declared, that " it carries out an emergency meeting ", and airline " Siberia " informed the formal data on the lost plane and has opened gorjauju a line for native and close victims (phone - 8 800 200 000 7; phones of a hot line of company " Volga - Aviaekspress " - 8 8442 317565 and 8 8442 317053

As informed Filjanin, " experts of the company do not put forward what versions ", but nevertheless, has recognized, that " the information for mass-media under the scheme of interaction of various aeroport services with security service of the airline " now prepares. As he said, the control over passengers, service of technics - all these questions concern to the competence of ground services of the airport.

Two accidents in one country, in one night - extremely rare incident. Last time such was on September, 11, 2001 in the USA when in New York with a difference some minutes two planes seized by terrorists ran into buildings of World shopping center, one more has rammed a building of Pentagon, and last has fallen in deserted district.

In this light evening explosion in Moscow differently is looked. At 19.43 the glass pavilion of a bus stop on highway Kashirskom - approximately on half of way between city centre and the airport has been blown up. On the official data, 4 persons have suffered, and the city militia denies any data on victims.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-25 12:59:44 AM|| 2004-08-25 12:59:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Thanks TGA.

Posted by ed 2004-08-25 1:08:51 AM|| 2004-08-25 1:08:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I suppose it was simultaneous center wing tank explosions.

Posted by Pete Stanley 2004-08-25 1:12:46 AM|| 2004-08-25 1:12:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Wasn't that Reid's intended MO?

Maybe somebody bought another pair of his sneakers ...

Posted by Dan Darling 2004-08-25 1:49:51 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 1:49:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Nike Air?

Posted by .com 2004-08-25 1:55:19 AM|| 2004-08-25 1:55:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Is it time now for Putin to re-occupy Chech. this time w/ 500,000 men?

Posted by Sid 6.7 2004-08-25 2:25:07 AM|| 2004-08-25 2:25:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 "Wasn't that Reid's intended MO?"

Yeah, he was at that location. That's also where Ramzi Yousef put his casio life-jacket bomb on that killed a Japanese man in the 1994 JAL flight. Whatever caused the TWA flight 800 explosion happened at the same location in the airframe, and the official explanation to this day is a "center wing tank explosion", caused by electrical wiring, but I think that's BS.

I think American 587 which crashed in Queens 2001 was also a shoebomb.

Posted by Pete Stanley 2004-08-25 2:47:16 AM|| 2004-08-25 2:47:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I believe that Russia already occupies Chechnya with a sizeable, abeit ill-trained, military presence. The problem is that if this was the work of the Chechen Killer Korps headed up by Basayev, they're only an aspect of the problem rather than the cause. That lies great further to the south in the Magic Kingdom and if it was al-Qaeda then the leadership will be shacked up at the mad mullahs' villas in Iran and the hard boyz will get their training from the LeT.

Posted by Dan Darling 2004-08-25 2:48:19 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 2:48:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 I think American 587 which crashed in Queens 2001 was also a shoebomb.

Albeit the guy must have been sitting at the rear? The rudder was sheared off in that one.

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-25 2:54:17 AM|| 2004-08-25 2:54:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Maybe it's time to look at a map. One plane was flying to Sotchi, the other to Volgograd. Those two routes are very close to each other. The plane that crashed in the Tula area could have been forced to change route and crashed very soon after that. The other one flew on to Sotchi and crashed near Rostow, still on a direct route to Sotchi. This one was obviously able to trigger hijack alert...

OK this is speculation of course but I wouldn't be surprised if both planes were to pay president Putin a visit in Sotchi, in the middle of the night.

Developing... as they say.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-25 2:58:40 AM|| 2004-08-25 2:58:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 TGA, That was my first guess also...but then why the mid-air boom on the plane heading to Volgagrad? Our speculations could be endless, but it is possible that if they did not gain control of the aircraft, they had plan 2...a boom in the bathroom. Placed there by ground crew.

As you say...developing

Best wishes,

Traveller

Posted by Traveller 2004-08-25 3:07:24 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:07:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Putin might fire (literally perhaps) someone from his inner circle today. Unless his exact location in Sochi was well publicized, someone on the ground nearby must have confirmed his whereabouts (if indeed he was the target).

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-25 3:11:23 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:11:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Ignoring the Russian penchant for corruption these days (and it's not like the Chechens don't have enough Saudi cash to play with), the Chechen ability to stage multiple attacks inside Moscow would seem to suggest that they have a way of getting through Russian security.

Posted by Dan Darling 2004-08-25 3:15:13 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2004-08-25 3:15:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Oh sure his whereabouts are known... Putin's high security presidential dacha can hardly be missed.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-25 3:26:12 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:26:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Hitting a dacha from 30,000 feet is not quite an easy task mind you :)

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-25 3:28:46 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:28:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 It's more like a palace than a dacha... and hitting low rise Pentagon wasn't easy either.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-25 3:35:27 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:35:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 IIRC, the whole tail section ended up in Jamaica Bay, and both engines wound up in seperate locations, away from the main body of the airplane.

Witnesses reported flames, etc. but the gov't said that they just witnessed a REALLY big compressor stall fromt he extreme turbulence caused by the Korean Air flight too close in front.

And let's not forget the French airliner that went down off of Yemen late last year. Blair was spending some time at Sharm el Shek, at the time.

Posted by Pete Stanley 2004-08-25 3:38:00 AM|| 2004-08-25 3:38:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 hitting low rise Pentagon wasn't easy either

That was pure luck.

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-25 4:06:12 AM|| 2004-08-25 4:06:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Probably the planes were shot down by russian missiles, when they noted the change of route.

Posted by Anyone 2004-08-25 4:26:00 AM|| 2004-08-25 4:26:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Come to think of it, that is a possibility.

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-25 4:28:16 AM|| 2004-08-25 4:28:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 "Probably the planes were shot down by russian missiles, when they noted the change of route."

Hummmmm...Anyone may have hit on something here. The Russians would have no compunction to shoot an airliner from the sky...nor do I think would we, under the apropriate circumstances.

Best Wishes,

Traveller

Posted by Traveller 2004-08-25 4:38:49 AM|| 2004-08-25 4:38:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Well we wouldn't hesitate a shoot down any more, at one time yes, but not now. The Russians would never have been under any constraints they are just to practical and pragmatic.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-25 4:44:15 AM|| 2004-08-25 4:44:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Probably the planes were shot down by russian missiles,

I had the same thought - since one was able to get off a hijack signal. Or maybe someone special was coming to see Vlad. Be interesting to see the passenger lists.

Posted by B 2004-08-25 5:11:31 AM|| 2004-08-25 5:11:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 "Russian security heads believe al Qaeda behind crash of two Russian Siberian Airways planes after takeoff from Moscow Tuesday night. Both pilots sent hijack signals before their planes disappeared off radar screens killing all 89 people aboard."

in Debka.

Yep... Russia has the world's most extensive strategic air defense network. Just check the numbers:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/pvo.htm

And they are ready for this kind of situation:

http://english.pravda.ru/economics/2001/08/10/12271.html

(old article pre-9/11)

Posted by Anyone 2004-08-25 5:22:00 AM|| 2004-08-25 5:22:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Anyone: Yep... Russia has the world's most extensive strategic air defense network. Just check the numbers. And they are ready for this kind of situation

I think the Russian air defense system has always been overrated - and this was back in the days of the Soviet Union, when there was much less commercial traffic, and the Russians still had a real military. Case in point - in 1987, German-born Mathias Rust, 34, made headlines as a 19-year-old when he landed a Cessna light aircraft in Red Square in a flight that originated in West Germany. They're great at collecting good-looking stats, but like their weapons systems, generally fail to perform up to specs when real emergencies occur.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-25 10:31:53 AM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-25 10:31:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 Zhang Fei---Mathais Rust's plane was the stealthy Cessna 172 chickenhawk aerial recon model. Heh heh. I think that some West German businessman bought it after the deed and had it trucked out of the then-USSR.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-08-25 11:40:29 AM|| 2004-08-25 11:40:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 AP: I think that some West German businessman bought it after the deed and had it trucked out of the then-USSR.

Last I heard, some Japanese businessman bought the plane. He compared it to the Lindbergh plane that made the first aerial Atlantic crossing.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-25 1:06:51 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-25 1:06:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Self destruct button, located under the pilot's seat labelled "Just in case".

Posted by 2% 2004-08-25 3:39:17 PM|| 2004-08-25 3:39:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 What ever happened to Rust?
I wonder which had a bigger impact the nuclear accident or the teenage westerner flying into the Rodina unnoticed.

Posted by Shipman 2004-08-25 4:48:02 PM|| 2004-08-25 4:48:02 PM|| Front Page Top

04:59 Sock Puppet of Doom
03:24 trailing wife
01:51 Asedwich
00:25 Super Hose
00:22 CrazyFool
00:21 Lucky
00:12 Lucky
00:06 Lucky
23:43 GreatestJeneration
23:40 .com
23:36 True German Ally
23:34 Halfass Pete
23:32 .com
23:29 GK
23:26 Anonymoose
23:25 Fred
23:08 GreatestJeneration
23:06 Steve White
23:06 ed
23:00 Darth VAda
22:55 Yank
22:54 .Abu Billy
22:51 True German Ally
22:47 .Abu Billy