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2004-09-22 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by BigEd 2004-09-22 01:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Cut this traitors head off!!

Posted by Long Hair Republican 2004-09-22 1:10:00 AM|| 2004-09-22 1:10:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Nice work by the US! However next time, let's try to get the bad guy(s) before takeoff to limit fuel loss and extra delay to other passengers.

Posted by smn 2004-09-22 1:59:52 AM|| 2004-09-22 1:59:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Meow! You're busted.

Posted by Capt America 2004-09-22 3:59:41 AM|| 2004-09-22 3:59:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Miles from nowhere...

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-22 6:53:52 AM|| 2004-09-22 6:53:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 "Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the model example of Prophet Muhammad, ~~piss~~ peace be upon him."

Thank you for that pearl of wisdom Cat. Maybe you should try telling that to the animals you share your beliefs with, you might find yourself on the short end of a fatwa.

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-09-22 8:43:02 AM|| 2004-09-22 8:43:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action

No right thinkers could possibly be a follower of Islam

Posted by PlanetDan 2004-09-22 9:22:41 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:22:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I dont think Cat has condemned Hamas attacks in Israel. Also '"Islam(Stevens) drew some negative attention in the late 1980s when he supported the Ayatollah Khomeini's death sentence against Salman Rushdie, author of "The Satanic Verses."'

Peace train a coming, but Cat aint pulling it, it seems.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 9:30:05 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:30:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Another person who found Western life too hard and could only find happiness as a 'bitch' of allen hopping when he says hop and sticking his butt in the air five times a day for no good reason other than to appease the deity.

Cat Stevens is just another person who believes that utopia can be achieved through the surrender of liberty and the surrender of the independence and neutrailty of the state in matters of religion.

Hey Cat, did you ever hear the one about Mohammed watching 500 Jewish men being beheaded? Or how about the assination of a woman poet who satirized your so called model example. Some model, huh?

or did Cat just sell his soul, as so many have, in exchange for having someone else dictate his every move? People like him think that they have found peace when what they are really feeling is the comfort and ease that comes from giving up.

He is a traitor. I think all converts to this stupid religion are traitors who are willing to ignore and explain away islams dark side in favor of some "real" islam of their own invention and very selective reading. They ignore the dark side for a false spirituality which is really a masquerade where they get to dress and act all bohemian and exotic and they get to protest our way of life by adopting an alien way of life.

I say keep them all out but especially the ones who claim that islam is modern and peaceful and "not incompatible with democracy" whatever that means. We dont need them here.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 9:53:40 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:53:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Day Trip To Bangor

Didn't we have a lovely time the day we went to Bangor
A beautiful day, we had lunch on the way and all for under a pound you know
But on the way back I cuddled with Jack and we opened a bottle of cider
Singing a few of our favourite songs as the wheels went around et-fookin-cetera...

Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-22 10:03:25 AM|| 2004-09-22 10:03:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Appropriately, Sung to
"Morning has Broken"

Jetplane has landed, they have found me out
Canât go to D.C., canât go there now
Allah you failed me, I canât make trouble
Theyâll send me back to London now...

Bangor is so lonely, no one is here
Marshalls are coming, to take me away
They may not feed me for a whole day
Please donât send me to Guantanamo

People are angry but Iâm on a Jihad
Wahabi folks want to hear all I say
Where you taking me? Donât like the room.
300-pound sergeant questions me now..

Posted by Oge_Retla_2004 2004-09-22 11:13:16 AM|| 2004-09-22 11:13:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Crimes against innocent bystanders taken hostage in any circumstance have no foundation whatsoever in the life of Islam and the model example of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him."

This is, of course, a complete and utter lie. Ol' Mo ordered every man in a tribe to be beheaded, and raped one of the widows that very night.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-09-22 11:45:33 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-09-22 11:45:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 This may be treading on thin ice but...

RC - You know, you never hear about mainstream historians talking about anything remotely connected to this in regard to Jesus, or Buddha, or Moses...

In fact, the only thing you hear about Jesus in regard to women, is the legend that during the missing years he MAY have traveled to England (Then part of the Roman Empire as well) and had a wife and kids there, who were left behind, as he was hoping he would one day return, when he went to the Mid-East to begin ministry.

Moses was very domestic.

Buddha, a prince, had a "good life" until the conversion to a monastatc life, but was as far as I have read, never cruel to anyone.

So, it is left up to Mohammed to be the one with the debauchery...

Posted by BigEd 2004-09-22 12:01:15 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:01:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 And lets not forget that all the women and children of that tribe were parcelled out as prizes by mo himself to his loyal followers. All of them became islamic slaves.

Some model huh?

Hey, no wonder islam spread so fast, what with the free slave girls being handed out as victory prizes.

But Cat might say that it was the womens fault for belonging to any group of people who didn't automtically surrender everything they held dear including their right to self determination at once whenever muslim bandits and mauraders led by mo pulled up in front of their towns. If they had just surrendered they would have seen mo's good side instead forcing him to show them proof islams superiority at the edge of sword.

Cat Stevens was a hippy idiot. An idiot can change their name and start wearing flowing really "spiritual" looking robes and renounce a worldly "materialistic" career, but the fact that he's a pie in the sky idiot is something that can't be changed and never will change the facts notwithstanding. Once one always one.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 12:04:22 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:04:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I agree completely about the former Cat Stevens, Peggy. And, unless Mr. Islam gave away all that he earned in those heady rockstar days, he would be a hypocrite to claim that he gave up the materialism of his youth.

Relatedly, I've read that Cat Stevens thoroughly approves of terror attacks on Israeli civilians, which is why he's been persona non grata over there for some time.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-22 12:19:27 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:19:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Moses was very domestic.

well, i dont know, he spent all that time leading the people, did he make time for his wife and his kid Gerson? Sounds like good material for a sermon.

Course he left the dirty work to Joshua. Folks want to look for genocidal stuff can look at Joshua and the Canaanites. Course our tradition says that aint no justification for killing anyone now, those Canaanites were like totally defiling the land through horrible practices. Which just shows to go ya that ya cant look at a religious text in isolation, gotta look at it in the context of its tradition. I assume the "nice" muslims have something parallel. Now if only they could apply it to Israeli children, as well as Russian children. That they dont is do to their own moral lack, not mohammeds.

Anyway, I suspect Cat was caught cause his name matched somebody else.

Too bad they couldnt have held him over a Saturday night in Bangor. "Another Saturday night, and i aint got Hamadi ...."

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 12:24:32 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:24:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Liberal Hawk,

Among those abominable practices was child sacrifice.

I know its no use to try and convince you that eliminating child sacrifice and the religions that condoned it was truly a good thing and advancement for human kind. But to those who don't have a chip on their shoulder and a bias against all religion, its seems rather obvious that tough measures would have have to been taken.

Historical evidence however, shows that the Hebrews did not in fact eliminate all the people who lived in the land that they settled. The process was more gradual and the Hebrews continued to live alongside these people and some even emulated them, including adopting the practice of sacrificing their own children.

The Biblical command was a statement of principle which I am sure that any Jewish rabbi could tell you. It was a perscription which when it wasn't followed proved its necessity.

What would you have done? Would you have walked up to some village who practiced child sacrifice and reasoned them out of the practice? With what argument? How would you have proved that it was wrong? By demonstrating that it wasn't in their best interests to kill the occaisional child? And in your experience, how easy is it to reason a whole group of people out of their beliefs?

If it was up to you, we might still have some people today practicing child sacrifice. It was something that needed to be eliminated and the Bible's unequivocable condemnations of such practices was the catylast which began the end the practice first in the region where the Jews lived and then outward from there.

Or are you going to argue that child sacrifice is just something that the Jews should have let people do, no big deal, no justification for harsh tactics.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 12:42:23 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:42:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 "I think all converts to this stupid religion are traitors who are willing to ignore and explain away islams dark side in favor of some "real" islam of their own invention and very selective reading. They ignore the dark side for a false spirituality which is really a masquerade where they get to dress and act all bohemian and exotic and they get to protest our way of life by adopting an alien way of life . . ." --peggy

Cat Stevens, the performer, playing "holy man" with his own, sanitized version of Islam. He even names himself "Islam." And he gets attention and a big pretend which he can trot around the globe and make money with. The mullahs love him because he can bullshit Westerners with his "pick and choose" version of Islamic puke nonsense, and ensnare some of them, or at least make them less hostile to Islamic aims regarding proselytizing. Wonder if he's spoken out in condemnation of the beheadings in the last couple of days. Nope.

I think Winston Churchill told the truth about Islam best: "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world . . . "

Posted by ex-lib 2004-09-22 12:43:50 PM|| 2004-09-22 12:43:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Amen, Winston.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 1:25:26 PM|| 2004-09-22 1:25:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 That's not a moon shadow following you, Cat. That's an FBI shadow. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by Tom 2004-09-22 2:22:03 PM|| 2004-09-22 2:22:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 geez peggy. If today we found child sacrifice, wed have to try the folks who did the child sacrifice - NOT kill an entire village. And thats Jewish law, not just my opinion. The actions in Canaan were unique, based on G-ds word, for his reasons that arent clear to us mortals - or they may not have actually happened at all, as you imply (Im a tad radical about that - but I wasnt discussing actual late bronze age Canaan/israel based on historical analysis, but what some hostile person could say about Judaism - i didnt discuss christianity only because im less familiar with how Christian traditions justify the situation)
My point remains - while there are indications in the bible of the actions of the Canaanites, and of the Amalekites, these are fleshed out in later rabbinic literature, which makes clear the reasons for Joshuas actions, and why they are unique to that time and place. Again, I presume that Muslims have something similar re Mo and what he did in his time.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 2:29:19 PM|| 2004-09-22 2:29:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I'm proud to say that as an AFRTS dee-jay, I boycotted his pop music stuff after he came out in favor of the fatwah on Rushdie for the "Satanic Verses".
Easily done, since there were only those two mouldy oldie hits of his in the AFRTS library!
It's the thought that counts

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2004-09-22 2:51:46 PM|| [http://www.sgtstryker.com] 2004-09-22 2:51:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Liberal Hawk,

They do have something similar but the justification is by far weaker. What mo did was always about ensuring that islam would dominate the world. Period. Thats the entire justification. muslims attacked polytheists but not child sacrificers. He attacked Christian and Jewish and Zoroastrian communities and lands or exhorted his followers to do so.

The Jews were only to clear their land of evil doers and then stop. Christians were commanded to spread the Gospel but the violence option wasn't open to them and whatsmore Jesus never sopke at all about Christians having a duty to subjugate the whole world to Christianity. He said only to tell people about him not conquer in the name of his religion. He never taught that it was Christian destiny to rule the whole world.

geez peggy. If today we found child sacrifice, wed have to try the folks who did the child sacrifice - NOT kill an entire village

My point is that if the practice hadn't been condemned back then as an intolerable abomination, we would not have the sense today to have laws against it to try some individual with. As in the days of the Israelite conquest, we would have pockets of people who still practiced it and pockets of people who didn't practice it but tolerated those who did. There is nothing in the practice of child sacrifice that would strike someone as inherantly wrong if they lacked the moral training and traditions that we have today. to us its obvious. To someone else it wouldn't be. The Biblical command in the Bible to not tolerate it under any circumstances was a monumental moral turning point in human history that we today cannot fully appreciate because we take it for granted that its wrong to kill any child for any reason. We automatically acknowledge a child's inherant right to life because it began back then with people who belived they were obligated to stop the practice.

What happened then was that these folks the Jews were the first to take a moral stand about the behavior of another group. Noone else did the same for 2000 years until the Christians came along. Thats huge and we can't underestimate what that means to us today who can now afford to try the occaisonal freak of nature who practices abominations on the innocent. Back in those days the whole region was full of people like that.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 2:52:26 PM|| 2004-09-22 2:52:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Liberal Hawk,

If you think that the issue is that muslims believe that the things mo did were one time only and time specific, I only ask you to think about what he did, what his options were and what his situation was. The only conclusion is that he was not a moral exemplar like Moses or Jesus or even Joshua. The comparison does not hold up no matter how much muslims try to justify his actions.

Muslims also believe that they must follow moshammeds example and that that example is eternally valid for them. When muslims do not feel threatened, they emulate mo's good side. When they feel threatened they trun to his eternal and perfect example for how to deal with a threat. Its not a thing of the past for them. nor will it ever be.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 2:58:43 PM|| 2004-09-22 2:58:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 LH-you're making my blood pressure rise...

Tell me, do you see some small parallel between Muslims who tried to justify the killing of 3000 people in the WTC ("you have to understand their history, the context of the fight, blah blah blah") and this statement:

[Regarding child sacrifice] The actions in Canaan were unique, based on G-ds word, for his reasons that arent clear to us mortals...

I see a parallel-it's called rationalization of inhumane acts(not to be confused with reason).

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-22 3:01:08 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:01:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Sgt Mom - I hear you. I profile, in my own way. I participate in one of those illegal (per RIAA, anyway, fug'em) kazaa-style networks sharing MP3's and other stuff. I have a fairly awesome collection of files - many very hard to find - in total several thousand of the best of the best, heh. I get tons of D/L requests - which occupy a fair chunk of my expensive big bandwidth. And I whack anyone who wears his dhimmitude or asshattedness on his sleeve, er, posting nym. My favorites so far: BushLied, TheCaliph, and Beheader. They get bounced immediately, of course. And I boycott the products of a wide range of countries who have elected Dhimmi-shit-for-brains leaders.

We all do what we can, heh.

Posted by .com 2004-09-22 3:09:18 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:09:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Sgt Mom - BTW - THANK YOU for your work as an AFRTS dee-jay - although we prolly didn't cross paths in time, I want you to know the music mattered a lot to me and everyone I served with! THANX! Do you have any MP3 requests? I'll find 'em for you, heh.

Posted by .com 2004-09-22 3:22:02 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:22:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 jules - muslims (And anyone else for that matter) who justifies 9/11 is a bastard, no ifs ands or buts.

I WAS making a comparison, however imperfect between the actions of Big Mo in the Koran and the actions of Joshua in the Bible, since someone said all muslims should be excluded from the US cause of whats in the K. I was trying to make some explanation of how moderate muslims may deal with it, since im aware of how Jews deal with the Joshua stories. I was comparing religious texts with religious texts, NOT religious texts with contemporary political situations. I have a great deal of difficulty with applying ancient religious texts to contemporary situations, at least when said texts havent evolved through a long tradition of interpretation and commentary.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 3:25:09 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:25:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 bye cat

"But if you wanna leave, take good care,
Hope you make a lotta nice friends out there,
But just remember there's a lotta bad and beware"

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 3:29:40 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:29:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Correction noted-you intended to compare religious texts to religious texts.

I despise religious self-immunization. My hackles go up when an effort to protect a religion at all costs comes at the expense of naming evil AS IT OCCURRED, in the Bible, in the Torah, in the Koran, or whatever other book. People were different then, yes, and it is good to point out that each book is a historical recounting of what people did then, but people cannot "deal with it" if they excuse it simply because it happened a long time ago. Humans grow, but let's name things for what they are.

OK. I feel better now. By the way, I like "Big MO".

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-22 3:45:30 PM|| 2004-09-22 3:45:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Peggy,

It seems to have escaped your notice that Liberalhawk is a practicing Orthodox Jew (one clue is that he writes G-d, not even spelling out the word God, out of respect to the Deity). A Jew of great erudition, by the way, who is knowledgeable not only about the Torah, Talmud and Mishnah, and the 2000-year mass of rabbinic Oral Commentary, but the historic development of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and the many secular flavours of Socialist and Communist thought.

I suggest you re-read his posts in light of this background information, and in future argue with him on the merits rather than resorting to ad hominim attacks. I can't speak for him, of course, but I certainly would appreciate it.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-22 4:39:39 PM|| 2004-09-22 4:39:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 quibble - im a CONSERVATIVE Jew, and im not nearly as observant as id like to be. I have a lot of respect for Orthodoxy and for the Jewish tradition, and so I may not come off as C rather than O here.

I appreciate the complement of being mistaken for O based on my knowledge, since C jews generally (unfortunately IMHO) have less knowledge on these things than O jews (the jewish stuff, not the lefty stuff). AS for not not writing out the name of G-d, while many C jews dont follow the practice, i see no good reason not to. I like to follow traditional practices where possible. (the kinds of issues where you might see me as very different from an O jew, like say gay marriage, are ones i avoid commenting on here, since they inevitably become useless flamefests - of course they tend to on Jewish sites as well ;) )

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 5:03:26 PM|| 2004-09-22 5:03:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 and in any case Peggy still has every right to disagree with me on the Bible, the Koran politics or whatever. Im glad some appreciate my posts, but i claim no privilege.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 5:07:22 PM|| 2004-09-22 5:07:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Liberal Hawk,

You have my apologies because I thought you were an athiest. I personally have never seen you make one positive comment on religion but I guess that doesn't mean that you never have. Athiests bring out the ugly in me

I was wondering about your comments on Joshua which seemed out of the usual from what I've seen from you before. This explains it.

I still don't think that Joshua's case justifys what mo did a couple thousand years later. It simply doesn't hold up. The situations were different and the goals were also different. The muslims may think they can apply that one-time principle to mo but it doesn't carry into a far more modern era where there wasn't so very much at stake and where there were many many options open to him.

My favorite example of course is of Jesus who found himself in the remorseless grip of the all powerful Roman government. He had nothing to fight them with. He could have encouraged his followers to uselessly immolate themselves trying to take it on in order to save him or to avoid capture all together. But he went to his death as gentle as he had gone through life and his movement survived and in 400 years was dominant in the empire without a battle being fought by any Christian army.

If Jesus could do that, then mo had no excuse whatever to do as he did. None.

You simply can't equate religions. Some are better than others. And you always seem to be equating Christianity and islam in one lump as equally bad when their founders were such vastly different moral examples.

Criticise Christians all you want for our failure to live up to our moral example, but we have a truly moral example for our religious conscience and he usually gets the better of us in the end. But the muslims have no true moral exemplar. they have an imposter to such and they are blind to it.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-22 5:46:53 PM|| 2004-09-22 5:46:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Hell, I didn't LH was a drunk till I saw him sober one day. :)

Excellent post Peggy.

Posted by Shipman 2004-09-22 7:12:28 PM|| 2004-09-22 7:12:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I always thought the creep hippy sounded like a cat singing out of key, it was much worse.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-22 10:03:56 PM|| 2004-09-22 10:03:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Islam drew some negative attention in the late 1980s when he supported the Ayatollah Khomeini's death sentence against Salman Rushdie, author of "The Satanic Verses."

"The Quran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity."

I'd sure like to know exactly how this @sshole manages to reconcile the above two facts. That is, unless Mr. Islam advocates the death penalty for blasphemy or apostasy. If indeed he does, then he is just another bloodthirsty tyrant trotting about covering up the violent aspects of his militant faith.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-22 10:31:15 PM|| 2004-09-22 10:31:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Quibble noted, LH. I was reared a freethinker within a Conservative synagogue, but with Daddy being an Israeli and an academic, we kids got all the comparative literature and archeology stuff. In general the Conservatives spend more time on Jewish history, Bible, and comparative religion than they do on rabbinic commentary, which is indeed why I assumed you were an Orthodox Jew.

I wasn't looking to privilege you, just a little less unneccessary flaming. It distresses me, even though you are clearly able to hold your own. :-)

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-22 10:46:58 PM|| 2004-09-22 10:46:58 PM|| Front Page Top

09:36 OldSpook
04:07 OldSpook
04:02 OldSpook
02:34 OldSpook
02:24 OldSpook
02:19 OldSpook
00:47 OldSpook
00:42 OldSpook
00:40 OldSpook
00:35 OldSpook
00:34 OldSpook
23:34 Anonymous
16:52 Alaska Raul
01:52 Anonymous
08:36 Mike Sylwester
02:23 Pappy
02:11 Zenster
01:30 Long Hair Republican
01:01 trailing wife
00:58 trailing wife
00:47 Super Hose
00:23 lex
00:16 lex
00:10 Memesis