Article

2004-10-07 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by Steve White 2004-10-07 12:42:33 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Another fabulous success by our mighty military. Too bad that Senator Kerry, Libs and MSM undermine their efforts and success for cheap political gain.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-07 1:12:10 AM|| 2004-10-07 1:12:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I'm actually ambivalent ... wasn't this the agreement the first time around with al-Sadr?

Posted by Edward Yee 2004-10-07 1:19:20 AM|| [http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2004-10-07 1:19:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 true..but I'm not really seeing a downside if they don't comply. We'd all be a bit happier if they snuffed a few thousand more jihadi's before they pulled out.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-07 1:27:13 AM|| 2004-10-07 1:27:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Kind of. But this is the Iraqis' decision to make.

Posted by Pappy 2004-10-07 1:31:20 AM|| 2004-10-07 1:31:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I was being glib - (sort of). It would be great if they agreed to the terms. Maybe they are looking at Sadr and thinking that efforts to maintain power through the political process looks better than being dead. As long as they turn over the foreign fighters and fanatics - it just might work.

Posted by 2b 2004-10-07 1:40:14 AM|| 2004-10-07 1:40:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 My theory is GW lowers the boom on Falluja right after the election. US casualties impact hard on GW's re-election chances so we have been biding our time. Our military has been. Our warriors are ready to rumble, to prove themselves against Sunni Triangle scum. And Tater's tots if need be.

Posted by dennisw 2004-10-07 2:37:21 AM|| 2004-10-07 2:37:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Before making a decision, I would like to get the opinion of some civil engineers. I would hate to see the opportunity to level the place wasted if continued demolition will make it easier to rebuild. We might be able to build a more beautiful city more cost-effectively if we expend some more ord now rather than doing some rebuilding and then half to re-level the place down the road. Remember the adage: measure twice and cut once. :-)

Posted by Super Hose 2004-10-07 2:52:53 AM|| 2004-10-07 2:52:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Super Hose ....... Falluja. Just look at it as an urban renewal project.

Posted by dennisw 2004-10-07 2:56:08 AM|| 2004-10-07 2:56:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 We keep the pressure on. Continue operations around Hilla.

I won't believe that these Fallujah "negotiators" are serious until I see, and the nation sees, that they've tarred and feathered all AIF, and I don't just mean the Zarkawi guys.

Our boys have put the lie to what real power and commitment can do. These guys are only negotiating because we've shown them we're serious. Dead serious.

Posted by RMcLeod 2004-10-07 4:27:35 AM|| 2004-10-07 4:27:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The only problem is that the foreign fighters in Fallujah will not leave, so its going to get ugly when they try to clear the city and bring in Iraqi troops that are form outside the region.

Becasue of the moves in Samarra, and in the Hilla region and recent activity in Sadr City (which is Shia, not a nice place for Wahabbi Sunnis foreigners to go, like Zarqawi), those guys are running out of places to hide, stash ordnance, and run ops from.

Thats why they will nto leave Fallujah without a fight. If they do, then the big thing is to make sure they really left (with hard searches, etc), and if they have really gone, then find where they went.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-10-07 8:33:40 AM|| 2004-10-07 8:33:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 As in Najaf, there's a significant warren of tunnels under Falluja. Clearing street by street also means identifying tunnel exits first,then blocking them off.

Posted by RN 2004-10-07 8:51:40 AM|| 2004-10-07 8:51:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 It's amazing how cooperative bad guys becoem when they realize they are going to die.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-10-07 8:56:30 AM|| 2004-10-07 8:56:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 You don' think they will keep their word do you? They consider Allawi an 'infidel' or an 'american puppet' and so lying to him is no problem and no stain on their honor. After all they consider the murder and rape of children 'honorable'.....

I think they will simply hide the foreign fighters until the pressure lets up and then go right back to the same.

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-10-07 9:34:09 AM|| 2004-10-07 9:34:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 key points
1. despite the "shura" theres apparently no unity inside Fallujah. There are Zarq and his foreign jihadis. There are local wahabi crazies. There are ex-Baathists (who may overlap with the local wahabis) there are local thugs, and criminals. There are smugglers. There are local tribal leaders, who overlap with the smugglers, and may overlap with the wahabis. AFAICT its more complex than Sammara, and that was not simple. The key is breaking up the insurgency - that seems to have been the goal of recent military strikes, and is certainly part of the goal of negotiations, and may be the goal of covert activities as well.

2. There aint gonna be no more Fallujah brigade. We shouldve learned, and the Iraqi govts negotiating position should be better now. Any settlement, if it keeps out US troops, has to allow the Iraqis to send in any units they damned please (oh alright, maybe a clause not allowing any 100% Kurdish units will be hard to avoid) That means the army units and commando units, not just local INGs. As it is the army units and commando units will be severely tested cleaning out the foreign jihadis and anyone else who doesnt accept the deal.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-07 9:52:20 AM|| 2004-10-07 9:52:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 note also - this doesnt have to last forever. If Fallujah is quiet till January, and especially if the attacks in Baghdad which come out of Fallujah diminish, that makes an election much easier. Which improves govt legitimacy. At that point they and go in and clean out Fallujah again.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-07 9:54:24 AM|| 2004-10-07 9:54:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 This stinks like a hudna. These people have no honor and we have nothing to gain by talking to them. Shoot them in the f*cking face and have done with it.

Posted by BH 2004-10-07 10:06:58 AM|| 2004-10-07 10:06:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Super Hose, as Joni Mitchell sang in Big Yellow Taxi: "pave Paradise and make it a parking lot."

Posted by RWV 2004-10-07 10:32:41 AM|| 2004-10-07 10:32:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 well, actually "put up a parking lot"

Posted by RWV 2004-10-07 10:35:10 AM|| 2004-10-07 10:35:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 LH: Any settlement, if it keeps out US troops, has to allow the Iraqis to send in any units they damned please (oh alright, maybe a clause not allowing any 100% Kurdish units will be hard to avoid) That means the army units and commando units, not just local INGs.

Even China, which is at least nominally ethnically homogeneous, doesn't use local troops to quell large-scale local disturbances. The troops used in Beijing during the Tiananmen square incident were from another region altogther.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-10-07 10:35:53 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-10-07 10:35:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 SH - Civil Engineer here, and after the killing of those four US contractors I don't see any reason why Fallujah is our responsibility to rebuild. Destroy it, crush the rubble to class2 size aggregate and build a big Friggin runway for the IAF to use/refuel on the way to Iran

Posted by Frank G 2004-10-07 10:57:18 AM|| 2004-10-07 10:57:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 This is nothing more than a Ho Chi Minh-style attempt to buy time. Decrease the intensity of operations to string things out, and wait for something favorable to occur, either politically or on the battlefield. The seeming notion held by Allawi that terrorists can and should be brought into the political process is nonsense, and can only serve to make things more difficult than they need to be. We need to get on with the business of turning Iraq into a modern nation, and part of that job requires removing roadblocks; in this case, it means grinding these "insurgents" into dust.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-10-07 11:20:42 AM|| 2004-10-07 11:20:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 CE No. 2 checking in, SH. Smaller pieces are easier for the crushers, heh heh.

The terrorists are getting hammered, so their only action is to negotiate to stall and buy time for another day. Just like WW2, Allawi needs to demand unconditional surrender. Anyone doing insurrection needs to surrender or be taken out. The rebels could never be trusted in a new government. The old time honored arab method of negotiate and lie and stab in the back, etc etc needs to be made obsolete. These fighters are a cancer to any civilization and need to be removed. Anything else is self-delusion. Tater and the Tots needed to be taken out a long time ago. And Sistani playing footsie with this thug illustrates my point.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-10-07 11:26:39 AM|| 2004-10-07 11:26:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 You don' think they will keep their word do you? They consider Allawi an 'infidel' or an 'american puppet' and so lying to him is no problem and no stain on their honor.

The 'puppet' has Samarra, the Hilla regions and Sadr City as cards he's already showing.

I don't think Allawi is trying to influence the jihadis and the die-hard Baathists. Just Fallujans, the ones who've made a comfortable living in smuggling and other dubious but profitable endeavors. Split them off, even temporarily, and the environment changes.

Posted by Pappy 2004-10-07 11:28:57 AM|| 2004-10-07 11:28:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Bad move. The objective should not be to secure Fajulla or any other piece of real estate. It should be to kill the terrorists.

Posted by Whuling Sneth6118 2004-10-07 2:42:44 PM|| 2004-10-07 2:42:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 the goal for allawi is to govern Iraq. this is a civil war, and the several hundred thousand people of Fallujah and Ramadi arent going away. They have to be brought into the political process at some point. Kill all the terrorists sure, but bring the ordinary unsavory types in.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-10-07 4:36:59 PM|| 2004-10-07 4:36:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Fine. Get 'em to "the table", then slaughter them like pigs during the coffee and cigars...

Posted by mojo 2004-10-07 5:40:41 PM|| 2004-10-07 5:40:41 PM|| Front Page Top

11:22 tu3031
11:22 .com
11:13 WhyNot
18:34 Sock Puppet of Doom
18:18 DustbinUK
23:37 ex-lib
17:25 jules 187
17:20 BigEd
10:55 lex
06:54 Poison Reverse
02:39 Sock Puppet of Doom
00:24 Super Hose
00:08 tu3031
23:58 BigEd
23:53 BigEd
23:50 WhiteHouseDetox
23:38 Mark Espinola
23:37 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:36 Pappy
23:33 Asedwich
23:33 tu3031
23:24 Bored with knee jerk reactions.
23:20 Bomb-a-rama
23:19 Bomb-a-rama