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2005-08-01 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by mhw 2005-08-01 08:46|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 One day I'm up, the next day I'm down.... about the war on terror, I mean. This was a nice conclusion to the article, and what is the start of what I hope is an "up" day -

If al-Qaida is indeed shifting personnel out of Iraq, expect to hear more about Iraq as an "incubator" for terrorism. But what, pray tell, do the promoters of this theory imagine Zarqawi and his minions would have been doing these past two years if there had been no war in Iraq? Origami?

Iraq has indeed proven to be a quagmire. But not for us.

Posted by Bobby 2005-08-01 09:37|| 2005-08-01 09:37|| Front Page Top

#2 (Journalists describe this as a "worsening" trend.)

Is for them -- their allies (Al Qaida) are getting the collective asses kicked.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-01 09:42|| 2005-08-01 09:42|| Front Page Top

#3 ..so far this year, U.S. and Iraqi security forces have killed or captured more than 50,000 insurgents..

The preferable outcome for any "insurgents", of course, is death.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-08-01 10:01|| 2005-08-01 10:01|| Front Page Top

#4 Having things devolve into carbombings with high collateral damage tolls and sectarian rants by the CEO for the subsidiary don't scream success. Given the ethnic and religious makeup of Iraq and the lack of a clear longterm political goal to justify the means it's no wonder AQ can't garner more support and success. As to the longterm, they cannot disown the nasty words toward the shia nor can they disown the work of the bombers.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-08-01 10:11|| 2005-08-01 10:11|| Front Page Top

#5 Aha! I *knew* there was a quagmire in there somewhere. Quackmire! Quackmire!

To be serious for a moment, the phrase '...except in news reports' is a ruthless indictment of how events in Iraq and Afganistan have been reported. The filtered information stream that shows up in the daily newspapers removes the media from being reporters of events to active participants in trying to decide the outcome.

And I am not just talking about Al Jiz here. One of my 'favorite' examples was an AP story headlined something like "Rumsfeld Says We Have No Exit Strategy". If you actually read the article,his said we don't have an exit strategy, we have a victory strategy; the complete opposite of sense of what you got reading the headline.

Posted by SteveS 2005-08-01 10:23|| 2005-08-01 10:23|| Front Page Top

#6 If you really want to be appalled, in the Mudville Gazette blog they have a recap of some of the MSM's recent pronouncements of quagmire, collapse, imminent failure and dogs and cats sleeping together. To say that they are stretching the truth is an understatement, they are positively hallucinating.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-08-01 11:00|| 2005-08-01 11:00|| Front Page Top

#7 What was it Joe Goerbells (I KNOW that's not spelled rite) said about telling lies often enough?

Posted by Bobby 2005-08-01 12:05|| 2005-08-01 12:05|| Front Page Top

#8 I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.

The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.

Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.

Posted by mhw 2005-08-01 13:03|| 2005-08-01 13:03|| Front Page Top

#9 I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.

The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.

Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.

Posted by mhw 2005-08-01 13:03|| 2005-08-01 13:03|| Front Page Top

#10 While I like the thought of 50,000 captured, this article seems very incorrect in its conclusions and here's why.

50,000 insurgents doesn't equal 50,000 al qaida. It's a big, big jump to say the Sunnis and baathists are al qaida. They are not. They may logistically support some factions of al qaida when it is convenient for them, and their battles may be fought side by side, but most fighters in Iraq are surely not foreign, but locals, Sunnis, who know that their day in the sun as Saddam's favorites is over. Suicide bombers, different story, most of these are foreigners, but only add up to a few hundred fighters, cannon fodder for the jihadi war machine.

However, that being said, the resistance in Iraq is failing, but the Al qaida in Iraq, different story. Indeed Al Qaida in Iraq is succeeding in their goal of creating sectarian strife between the Sunnis and Shiites + Kurds. We will be damn lucky if Civil War doesn't break out before we pull most of our boys home, no matter how successful our rebuilding is going.

Indeed Al Qaida is succeeding marvelously in Iraq, for their goal is chaos, and chaos still reigns supreme in too much of Iraq. Just ask our boys who are dodging IEDs and rocket attacks and see what they say.

Let's not be as ignorant as the MSM in our pronouncements of victory over one enemy as a victory against another.

For whether or not the Sunni insurgency succeeds is no indicator of Al qaida's success. Iraq is simply a convenient battle ground for increased jihadi recruitment and training, when the Zarqawis of this war have tired of killing people in Iraq, they will simply take the battle elsewhere, preferably, in their minds it seems, to Saudi Arabia where they will continue to fight for the throne of the land of Mecca and Medina and then the world.

Our immediate victory in Iraq is IMVHO no indicator of a larger victory against al qaida, but only one battle in a larger war, and illusions of "mission accomplished against al qaida" after we beat back the insurgency in Iraq.

We will be fighting al qaida and their like long after Iraq is barely spoken of in the news.

Just MHO

EP

Posted by ElvisHasLeftTheBuilding 2005-08-01 13:46|| 2005-08-01 13:46|| Front Page Top

#11 I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.

Overblown Abu Ghrab, Gitmo, burying the good news, publishing half truths, trying desperately to tag Rove with the Plame outing [if there really was one], repeating the 'Bush Lied' routine, accepting anything released by the enemy as truth. Nah, nothing here, just MoveOn.

Oh, and they want International Law to override the US Constitution. Wonder how much they'll really love that when the Julius Streicher precedence comes into play. There can be little question that major players have created an atmosphere of hate and loathing based on false reporting and half truths.

And before you haul up the First Admendment remember it is based upon the Colonial case of the Royal Govenor of New York versus Zenger, to which the court established truth as the defense.

Posted by Ulinelet Unavimble6494 2005-08-01 14:07|| 2005-08-01 14:07|| Front Page Top

#12 There is a large criminal element in that 50,000 number. Not Al Q, not hellbent Sunnis, just guys who thrive and profit from chaos.

Posted by remoteman 2005-08-01 14:24|| 2005-08-01 14:24|| Front Page Top

#13 Comparing the MSM to Goebbels is very unfair -to Goebbels! Goebbels was a loyal Nazi and stayed faithful to the end. Where is the loyalty of the MSM? Certainly not to the truth!

Al

Posted by Frozen Al">Frozen Al 2005-08-01 14:35|| 2005-08-01 14:35|| Front Page Top

#14 I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.

The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.

Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.

And your point? The press is heavily agenda driven and will say or print anything to advance that agenda. As to simply making things up, what about: Jason Blair - NYTimes; Barbara Stewart, Patricia Smith, Mike Barnicle, Boston Globe; et. al.

Perhaps the press has always been agenda driven, but as educational standards have inexorably dropped since the 60's, so has the education background and writing abilities of modern jouranlists. They are peddling shoddier products than before and are just more obvious and nastier about their propaganda.

Posted by RWV 2005-08-01 15:00|| 2005-08-01 15:00|| Front Page Top

#15 Ah, a little healthy discussion! Good, good!

I did not intend to compare the MSM to the late Dr. Goebbels, I was merely pointing out they (MSM) had learned a lesson from him - if you repeat something often enough, it may/will come true. Or am I thinking of Stalin?

Posted by Bobby 2005-08-01 15:05|| 2005-08-01 15:05|| Front Page Top

#16 This whole meme about the AlQ guys in Iraq makes no sense. Any Arab can lurk in an arab town (pretty much all the same shitholes) and not really seem out of place. But put that same jihadi in London or Paris or Rome, and they will be completely disoritented and stand out like a beacon.

Posted by Brett 2005-08-01 17:03|| 2005-08-01 17:03|| Front Page Top

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