Article

2005-09-02 Afghanistan/South Asia

Pakistani religious parties directly linked to al-Qaeda

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dan Darling 2005-09-02 00:11|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 âAs in Saudi Arabia and the smaller Gulf states, the indigenous Pakistani extremist groups were deeply embedded in society and politics and overcoming them by direct repression was not politically feasible, he said.

Jones suggested that the US and the West help President Pervez Musharraf in Kashmir and support his idea of enlightened moderationâ

Here we go again. I came to USA as a graduate student in 1971 with a jubilant feeling that this most powerful democracy in the world is helping other democracies. It was a short lived feeling. One of the genius mind graduate student (he used to defeat the main frame compute by calculating on his finger tips the complex statistical problems) put me facing the wall sized world map and asked me to point where in the whole world USA is helping democracy except UK which function as democracy but actually is a monarchy. I could not find at that time a single county on the face of this word where USA was committed to helping the democracy honestly. Please do not take me wrong. The well being of my family, my sons and the future of my grand children growing in this great nation, exactly like yours, are tied to the well being of our country, USA. I will not complain a word even if USA has to destroy all of the population of the world except USA citizens, if it secures a bright future of the grand children of mine and yours. I understand, as the greatest power in this world, USA has to do a lot more than a simple honesty since the world out there is nothing more than a jungle. The complication is that the wealth of a trading country like ours needs a huge population to buy our products. We have allowed a non democratic and a communist dictatorship like China to âhang the capitalist with the same rope they purchased from usâ. I just wondered what if USA was very honest about promoting democracy in the past and present which I think is consistent with the aspirations of our constitution. Please, educate me; I am with you.

Posted by Phereger Unimble9361 2005-09-02 03:05|| 2005-09-02 03:05|| Front Page Top

#2 Japan,Germany,Philippines,Italy,Iraq,Afgan, Panama.How's that for a start.Before you start calling me on some of these choices,bare this in mind.We tried,but it just didn't work.2 of them are works in progress.

Posted by raptor 2005-09-02 07:26|| 2005-09-02 07:26|| Front Page Top

#3 In 1971 the world was at the height of the Cold War, The U.S. and its allies against the Soviet Union and its allies, with most of the nominally Unaligned countries actually quietly aligned with the Socialist alliance. Nuclear weapons stood ready to be launched on both sides. And the Soviets and Communist China were working to suborn the governments of those countries attempting to become more democratic. With, let us not forget, the active and tacit support of the world's intellectual elite, whose claim to idealistic communism careful ignored totalitarian reality. The blame cannot be entirely apportioned to the United States that our democratic ideals were not matched by reality -- the world was not prepared to listen or accept allowing the people to rule themselves, when either rightwing or leftwing elites could establish control by force of arms.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-09-02 07:49|| 2005-09-02 07:49|| Front Page Top

#4 Where was the USA helping democracy in 1971? In all of Western Europe, in Israel plus in all of the countries who survived as democracies (or later became such) only because the USA was containing communism somewhere upstream. Plus those who were communists and now are democracies.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-09-02 08:17|| 2005-09-02 08:17|| Front Page Top

#5 asked me to point where in the whole world USA is helping democracy

Let's reverse the question. Point to a point in the whole world the Soviet Union helped democracy in the last century. Or China. Or France. Or the islamo-fascists.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-09-02 08:21|| 2005-09-02 08:21|| Front Page Top

#6 Welcome to Rantburg University! ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-09-02 12:13|| 2005-09-02 12:13|| Front Page Top

#7
Phereger what kinds of policies and actions would have satisfied your definition of "helping democracy"?
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2005-09-02 17:05|| 2005-09-02 17:05|| Front Page Top

#8 I would add India to the list of democracies that the US helped form.

The tremendous US pressure for decolonization exerted by FDR greatly assisted the Indian independence movement.

The last decade of British rule saw massive famines in India with tens of millions dead. This was almost repeated in the 1960s except for US food aid. The green revolution, which saw India become a net food exporter in the 1980s would not have been possible without the USA.
This saved the Indian state as a democratic institution.

The US supplied military aid when India was attacked by China. US tecnical assistance suported the nascent Indian rocket and nuclear programs (which now guarantee the security of the Indian state).

As an indepenence gift, the US offered techical assitance to India and Pakistan.
Pakistan choose help with its bureaucracy.
India instead choose universities.
Using the MIT as a role model, The US helped create the Indian Insitutes of Technology which now produce the vast numbers of engineers working in R+D, software and outsourcing projects. This is dragging the Indian eceonomy into the 21st century.

While relations were sometimes strained between the US and India, it was US assitance that gave India the space to resist direct Soviet involvement in its internal affairs while gaining Soviet militray hardware and assistance.

The US has played more than its fair share in shaping the Indian state. The economic ties (Microsoft, GE, Delphi automotive, Walmart) are further changing things.

Posted by john 2005-09-02 17:56|| 2005-09-02 17:56|| Front Page Top

#9 One of the genius mind graduate student (he used to defeat the main frame compute by calculating on his finger tips..

Welcome Phereger Unimble9361, does your friend do U.S. tax returns?

>>:>

Posted by Red Dog 2005-09-02 18:45|| 2005-09-02 18:45|| Front Page Top

#10 Red Dog:
It's one thing to do multivariate analysis. That's within the reach of a typical grad.

But the Schedule D? No one has ever figured that out.

Posted by Jackal">Jackal 2005-09-02 21:47|| home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-09-02 21:47|| Front Page Top

00:01 Zhang Fei
00:00 3dc
23:50 Red Dog
23:48 .com
23:41 trailing wife
23:39 Fred
23:38 Homer
23:38 .com
23:36 ed
23:27 Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom
23:24 Jan
23:17 .com
23:16 LC FOTSGreg
23:09 49 pan
23:05 ed
23:03 Jan
23:03 Stephen
22:53 Sock Puppet OÂ´ Doom
22:52 Homer
22:48 Jan
22:46 Alaska Paul
22:44 Jan
22:36 Alaska Paul
22:32 Jackal