Article

2005-10-20 Iraq

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Posted by lotp 2005-10-20 06:44|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Great that means I can lose more friends!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Alex 2005-10-20 06:50|| 2005-10-20 06:50|| Front Page Top

#2 you mean you can lose more friends willing to sacrifice for freedom while you do nothing but whine?

Posted by 2b 2005-10-20 06:52|| 2005-10-20 06:52|| Front Page Top

#3 Alex, go fuck yourself. Slimebag whiner. Move to France, you'll be appreciated there. Maybe.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2005-10-20 06:57|| 2005-10-20 06:57|| Front Page Top

#4 You'd think we'd be more focused on ending 60+ years in Germany and 50+ years in South Korea.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-10-20 07:54|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-10-20 07:54|| Front Page Top

#5 And 10+ years in that shit hole Kosovo, doing the whiny gutless Euros job for them.

Posted by Pheretch Sneaque7368 2005-10-20 08:20|| 2005-10-20 08:20|| Front Page Top

#6 Why don't you go fuck yourselves after serving this country for 10 years in the Rangers, seeing 13 of my closest friends killed in various operations in the 16 months I have spent in Iraq

Posted by Alex 2005-10-20 08:29|| 2005-10-20 08:29|| Front Page Top

#7 Alex has got a fair point. We will lose friends in Iraq.

Perhaps the time has come for us to pursue options more effectively to spare the lives of our soldiers.

Perhaps we should start targetting laws at Muslims, deporting any who spout jihadi radicalism and respond to Middle Eastern troublemakers with absolute carpetbombing devastation killing thousands of civilians rather than sending in the troops.

I for one would rather 1,000 of their innocents die than even one of our soldiers.

If they don't co-operate, nuke the bastards.

Posted by anon1 2005-10-20 09:03|| 2005-10-20 09:03|| Front Page Top

#8 Let's change the subject....

"Our country is sick at heart at the spin and false expectations," Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., told Rice. "They want the truth and they deserve it."

And the Administration has been consistent since Day 1, Babs - "We'll leave when the job is done, or we're asked to depart."

What part of that do you find so hard to comprehend, Senator Spin?

Posted by Bobby 2005-10-20 09:32|| 2005-10-20 09:32|| Front Page Top

#9 To revert to the earlier topic, Alex - every one of your friends was someone else's son, and many were someone's Father.

On the other hand, in ten years (if we are still there) I doubt Iraq will be any more dangerous than Germany is today.

Posted by Bobby 2005-10-20 09:35|| 2005-10-20 09:35|| Front Page Top

#10 Why don't you go fuck yourselves after serving this country for 10 years in the Rangers, seeing 13 of my closest friends killed in various operations in the 16 months I have spent in Iraq
Posted by: Alex 2005-10-20 08:29

Sorry Alex, there's no way to verify your claim. Too many anti-war types have played that game to be bought here or anywhere else outside a Cindyfest. You're going to be received with the same scorn those possers have gotten. Life's tough.

Posted by Crick Jert1817 2005-10-20 10:04|| 2005-10-20 10:04|| Front Page Top

#11 Alex, if you're for-real, you have our sympathies. Not our agreement, but our sympathies and respect for your service and sacrifice.

But as Crick mentioned, there have been far too many anti-war jerks claiming to be vets -- even Rangers -- for us to trust an anonymous claim.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-10-20 10:18|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-10-20 10:18|| Front Page Top

#12 Why don't you go fuck yourselves after serving this country for 10 years in the Rangers, seeing 13 of my closest friends killed in various operations in the 16 months I have spent in Iraq

And I've lost 3 of mine, plus a couple others I was trying to rescue. Sucks. Sucks big time. But if you've done ten years, then you ought to know that it "comes with the fucking job", right?

I want this one done right so I don't have to see yet another repeat.

Posted by Pappy 2005-10-20 10:47|| 2005-10-20 10:47|| Front Page Top

#13 I agree with what you saying I picked the job and I enjoy it, but I think you all know this we are not allowed to do our job properly, there are times when you wonder we could end this shit tommorrow, I admit I am not a Rep I am a Dem, but It seems to me and alot of the troops on the ground that we are keeping Iraq in a state of war because its the biggest money earner around. What we need is the press out along with all the other do gooders so we can go in and finish these terrorists once and for all no more pussy footing around. On another front if Binny is in N. Pakistan then lets daisy cut the whole area, its all screwed up in the area now anyway.

Posted by Alex 2005-10-20 11:12|| 2005-10-20 11:12|| Front Page Top

#14 Alex, yes you (and I) may lose more friends before things settle down in the middle east and we can ?relax? enough to enjoy our efforts. If we leave a weak Iraq now and allow the terrorist to establish a haven we could very well lose a lot more friends and families members in the next attack. Make no mistake they want to attack us and would like nothing more than to set off car bombs here in the U.S. like they did England, Spain, or Iraq. If you truly are a Ranger then you will understand the strategic and tactical advantage of engaging the enemy at a point and time of your choosing. I think that is still taught in basic infantry. Also I think itâs also best to be on the offensive and make the bad guys play defense, I think that allows you the advantage of maneuver? But I am preaching to the choir and you already know this stuff. I know many people who are in this fight and many that will go back to Iraq in the coming years and NONE of them whine or complain about the politics or the correctness of the policy or mission. Is this just a Ranger thing or maybe just you? No nobody like to die and nobody wants to lose a buddy but do you really mope around during your tour dwelling on that or do you get the job done? People die in war, peace, in general, and you canât change that fact.

Posted by Cyber Sarge">Cyber Sarge 2005-10-20 11:19|| 2005-10-20 11:19|| Front Page Top

#15 Don't forget that China is waiting in the wings, gathering strength and rubbing its hands together in glee as we waste our precious strength and soldiers fighting terrorists hand-to-hand when we have the means and technology to finish it quickly.

The only thing that holds us back is public opinion and the presence of too many hostile media.

Posted by anon1 2005-10-20 11:24|| 2005-10-20 11:24|| Front Page Top

#16 Thanks Sarge but you know we all have to get it out somewhere, and please remember there is alot of bad blood in the Rangers about not being able to do the job properly, Somalia being the example, its the same thing in Iraq no matter how many you kill there is more to replace, blanket bombing the whole middle east is the answer and then we can repopulate the area

Posted by Alex 2005-10-20 11:28|| 2005-10-20 11:28|| Front Page Top

#17 A couple different things, Alex:

First, as the wife of a retired officer and co-worker with Army officers, many of them combat veterans and some of them Rangers and SOCOM, my gratitude for your service and sacrifice and for those of your friends.

re: Iraq as money maker, as an MBA I have to say it has not yet given return on investment financially - certainly not to the country in terms of oil etc. and from what I am hearing, not all that much to the Halliburtons of the world. ;-)

But the real heart of your complaint, if I'm hearing you correctly, is the frustration you feel at being held on a leash. I can only imagine how frustrating this situation is - and have been told the same by officers coming back from the box: it's ambiguous, just enough combat / insurgency to kill some fine American heroes, not enough to unleash our real military power on ...

on who? That's the gotcha of asymmetrical warfare, and the presence of the press on the ground, but perhaps selectively seeing / reporting some aspects, only makes it worse.

We're asking more and more kinds of things than we've asked of our Army for more than a generation. I know the strains that is producing.

My own take? That these sorts of challenges will be with us for 20 years or so, on and off -- if not in Iraq than elsewhere and no matter which party is in power. I could be wrong (and I hope I am) but when I look at the underlying changes happening globally, economically, demographically etc. that's how it looks to me. The Army is retooling itself in many ways to deal with this new mission - as it has done masterfully in the past - but that takes time and is never easy.

Again, my thanks to all who are serving.

Posted by rkb 2005-10-20 11:30|| 2005-10-20 11:30|| Front Page Top

#18 The Iraqi government forces are clearly showing steady improvement. And if there ever really was an 'insurgency', it seems to be degenerating into just another Muslim terrorist movement. Will US forces still be in Iraq in five-ten years? Yes. But 'being in Iraq' is not the same as 'being in combat'. Will someone please explain that to the idiots that we elect to political office?

Posted by Patrick Phillips 2005-10-20 11:33|| 2005-10-20 11:33|| Front Page Top

#19 Thanks rkb, you are right about the leash, the problem is we could never unleash the full power because some idiot in europe or the UN would have us all up for war crimes

Posted by Alex 2005-10-20 11:36|| 2005-10-20 11:36|| Front Page Top

#20 Alex, what are you talking about? In Somalia we lost 18 Soldiers but we killed over 4000 of the bad guys. I am not a military genius, but I think the U.S. Army had worse battles. Yes they did drag some of our dead guys bodies down the street but by the end of the next day many of them were dead. Who has âbad bloodâ and to which soldiers are you talking about? Sounds like you are a LLL and read too many LLL websites that pretend to spout the truth.

Posted by Cyber Sarge">Cyber Sarge 2005-10-20 11:46|| 2005-10-20 11:46|| Front Page Top

#21 Alex: just another fake but could be accurate. They can't pose real arguments so they revert to the fantasy world thinking it makes them sage. What a crock.

Posted by 2b 2005-10-20 11:50|| 2005-10-20 11:50|| Front Page Top

#22 Come on people give the guy a break he is having a bad time dealing with some losses it can happen to anyone. I am british and in the army and have doen three tours in Basra which thankfully isn't as bad an area as the one you americans have. But we have a saying "you fight for your friends" . In my opinion we should roll in more troops and kick em back to the stoneage. And Alex if you are really having problems dealing with you losses maybe you should go and talk to someone about it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by pg 2005-10-20 11:55|| 2005-10-20 11:55|| Front Page Top

#23 Alex, I am sorry you lost your friends and I am angry that because our Western culture is too gutless to look an enemy in the eye and do what has to be done that soldiers lives are lost.

I am trying every day to talk to people around me to make them realise that their priorities are out of whack. That offending a minority is NOT more important than saving our troops and that war means the rules are different.

If we all try we can turn our culture around. Because until we do more soldiers are gonna die needlessly. Then when we've bled ourselves on the Islamofascists the Chinese will become our overlords.

Posted by anon1 2005-10-20 12:03|| 2005-10-20 12:03|| Front Page Top

#24 hey i lost friends in car crashes, lets ban all cars!!! serious though if thats the job you sign up to do Alex - being a soldier then surly you expected to go to war????? if not then i dont know why you joined up. I never joined the British Army because its become a battle field social worker force but i know a lot of guys who did not because they wanted to serve theere country but because they wanted to go sight seeing around the world/ playing rock climbing and canoeing - basically a big adventure holiday, now when you joined up what did you join up for in the best army of em all to fight wars or go rock climbing/canoeing and all that sht? i doubt it was for that reason because i know the US military operates a far differant recruitment method as in they dont tell you its gonna be an adventure holiday doing canoeing and sht but your there to fight wars for your country. I could understand it if you were conscripted and hated the idea of being in a war but for fck sake you joined a force whose sole purpose is to fight and win wars and in war people die its as simple as that. how can i make it any clearer. It may sound im slagging you off well i'm not, I have more respect for those who have given their lives in Iraq then most could possibly imagine and yes its real sad, no thats putting it mildly its difficult to put into words how sad it is that people are dead from getting rid of an appalling dictatorship but but once again i must repeat you were not conscripted, you knew the risks, they knew the risks and you all signed up to do the job. Its that simple.Throwing blame at everyone but yourself is foolish because you were the one who Signed yourself up - nobody else but yourself

Posted by Shep UK 2005-10-20 12:37|| 2005-10-20 12:37|| Front Page Top

#25 John, if you don't get off the internet I'm going to have to confiscate your lucky hat.

Posted by Tayraysah Kerry 2005-10-20 12:56|| 2005-10-20 12:56|| Front Page Top

#26 You understand that well beyond 10 years after the 'cease fire' agreement, we were still fighting and dying in Korea?

Americans fought a 'low intensity' war for generations along its western frontier that took lives on a regular basis beyond the dramatic events like Fort Phil Kearny and the Little Big Horn. Custers little battle extrapolated by population would have been around 1,500 losses today. Today terrorist operate out of Syria, back then Apaches operated out of Mexico. The frustration by the soldier was the same. The problem for us is that history runs in slow motion in the present. It just appears faster in the rear view mirror.

Posted by Omegum Angigum1719 2005-10-20 13:01|| 2005-10-20 13:01|| Front Page Top

#27 we should stay: sign long term leases for the H1 and H3 airfields in western Iraq which we already occupy - they provide excellent sources of irritation to Iran, Syria, and Saudi.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-10-20 13:05|| 2005-10-20 13:05|| Front Page Top

#28 Here's my take on ol Alex. Alex is a journo who wandered in here because of the missing Guardian reporter. Now he thinks he's having a bit of fun with the knuckle draggers, saying we should just daisy cut the whole area.

More reporting going on at rantburt than in the news these days, so why not?

Posted by 2b 2005-10-20 13:55|| 2005-10-20 13:55|| Front Page Top

#29 ..they provide excellent sources of irritation to Iran, Syria, and Saudi.

yep, gotta st0ck up aplenty wid kitty antihistamemes.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-10-20 13:55|| 2005-10-20 13:55|| Front Page Top

#30 I wonder how most of the Democratic Party would react if the President were to suddenly propose to fight the war the self-described Democrat above were to suggest: Kick out all the journalists, carpet-bomb everything flat, and start a hot war with a minor nuclear power like Pakistan.

I don't see how that last part in particular is going to lead to a reduced casualty rate for the Ranger Regiment, and suspect it would lead to exactly the opposite situation.

Posted by Phil 2005-10-20 14:32|| 2005-10-20 14:32|| Front Page Top

#31 Alex sounds frustrated. Losing friends would have that affect on me too. But Phil is absolutely correct and RKB's analysis is right on.

There will be no public acceptance of total war until/unless the US suffers another major hit, and by major I mean the loss of tens of thousands of lives. Until that time our brave soldiers must fight within the ROE set by our public officials.

Yes, this can suck. It can be frustrating to the point of mental breakdown, but that doesn't change the reality. And IMO, this reality is not a Bush-driven thing or a Demo-driven thing or even a Euro-driven thing. It refelects the positive aspects of our Judeo-Christian culture.

Before we fire-bombed Japanese cities, the USAF and the Pentagon were extremely worried about public opinion. Well after 3 years of war and thousands of deaths, they didn't have to be. A couple of years earlier and that likely would not have been the case.

Iraq seems to be making progress. The key is to set the country on the right path with an adepquate foundation for the future. It is a huge task, one fraught with screw-ups, but it appears we are making significant headway to that goal. I don't think carpet bombing is a part of that path even if it would feel good sometimes.

Posted by remoteman 2005-10-20 14:56|| 2005-10-20 14:56|| Front Page Top

#32 2b, you're likely dead on. It is unlikely Alex is what he says he is. Too whiny. His first comment was aimed at being arch. Then he thought to pose as a Ranger and have a good time. Likely doesn't know a damned thing. I don't believe a word he says. Clue to Alex' who likely got his Ranger persona from the movie; Rangers are proud of the battle of Mogadishu, as is The Unit.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2005-10-20 15:03|| 2005-10-20 15:03|| Front Page Top

#33 I'm not saying Alex is a faker. How could I know? But I will say that people who trump up a military background for themselves never seem to start with "You know I was a company clerk..."

Posted by eLarson 2005-10-20 16:23|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2005-10-20 16:23|| Front Page Top

#34 Hummm,who knows. I got 10 on Whiskey Mike and 7 on 2b.

If Ima wrong, say the Magic Ranger woid.

Posted by Shipman 2005-10-20 16:37|| 2005-10-20 16:37|| Front Page Top

#35 How many journalists killed since the war began? Isn't it around 13?

Posted by 2b 2005-10-20 16:47|| 2005-10-20 16:47|| Front Page Top

#36 Alex

Yes. Me too, maybe.

What's you point?

Posted by Kelly 2005-10-20 16:54|| 2005-10-20 16:54|| Front Page Top

#37 Somalia being the example, its the same thing in Iraq no matter how many you kill there is more to replace, blanket bombing the whole middle east is the answer and then we can repopulate the area

Here is all you need to know that Alex is a fake. There are many rantburgers who advocate for increased use of force and sometimes blow of steam, but this comment could only be made by a lilly handed boy whose had his freedom handed to him by real men.

Posted by 2b 2005-10-20 17:02|| 2005-10-20 17:02|| Front Page Top

#38 So what's the color of the ~~boathouse at Hereford~~ jump tower at Benning?

Posted by .com 2005-10-20 17:04|| 2005-10-20 17:04|| Front Page Top

#39 Babs got her ass handed to her yesterday when she tried to be confrontational with Dr. Rice.

Babs looked more pruney than usual; great fun.

I have much more respect for Dr. Rice after watching her take down the babbling Babs.

Posted by Captain America, esq 2005-10-20 17:36|| 2005-10-20 17:36|| Front Page Top

#40 If it's Babs against Condi in a game of wits, Babs is vastly outnumbered. Kind of like a kite versus an F-15. If Babs didn't have her talking points in front of her all we would get is a blank 'deer in the headlights' stare. Did I mention to you all how much I really hate her? I really do.

Posted by Cyber Sarge">Cyber Sarge 2005-10-20 17:40|| 2005-10-20 17:40|| Front Page Top

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