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2006-03-05 India-Pakistan

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Posted by lotp 2006-03-05 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The mosques on Temple Mount and the minarets beside the Saint Sophia Cathedral (cum "mosque") in Constantinople (Istanbullcrap) attest to Muslim appropriation of structures sacred to real faiths. Maybe we should take back all occupied Roman and Christian territories.

Posted by Listen To Dogs 2006-03-05 04:53|| 2006-03-05 04:53|| Front Page Top

#2 Recipe for sectarian conflict I'm afraid.

A significant part of the current wave of islamism in India has its roots in the demolition of an abandoned mosque in Ayodya, built on top of a destroyed Hindu temple.
The site was sacred to the Hindus, considered to be the birthplace of the god Rama.

Several BJP politicians used this issue to gain power but in the process they unleashed forces they struggle to control.

Naipaul has written about archeological excavations in Sindh (now in Pakistan) at the site of the first mosque in the Indian subcontinent.

It lies on a layer of human bones (probably the Buddhist and Hindus slaughtered by the Islamic invaders)

Sometimes, it is best to leave the past buried.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 08:52|| 2006-03-05 08:52|| Front Page Top

#3 Is there a common ingredient in all of these conflicts?

Posted by 2b 2006-03-05 09:15|| 2006-03-05 09:15|| Front Page Top

#4 Recipe for sectarian conflict I'm afraid.

All it takes is the presence of Islam for that.

Is there a common ingredient in all of these conflicts?

Islam?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-05 10:22|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-05 10:22|| Front Page Top

#5 There is an interesting conflict coming to the surface now in India.

Reports say that aides of the Indian PM dismissed the protests by the Madrassah teachers and students (tens of thousands of them) as "those f$%king mussalmans, what else can you expect".

This is the not hindu nationalist BJP, this is the Indian National Congress party, which has tradionally had a lot of muslim support.

Since partition, there have not been strong muslim only parties like the pre-independence muslim league but this may now change.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 10:54|| 2006-03-05 10:54|| Front Page Top

#6 but this may now change.

And if it does?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-03-05 10:57|| 2006-03-05 10:57|| Front Page Top

#7 Alienation of large parts of the muslim population from the centres of power could be very problematic.

This is not some small minority, this is 150 million (some claim 200 million) people vulnerable to radicalization.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:20|| 2006-03-05 11:20|| Front Page Top

#8 other implications.....

A snapshot of middle class India

It is a truism within Big Media to say that the people of India want peace with Pakistan. My sense, however, was that while nobody wants another war, outside of Delhi and parts of the Punjab perhaps there was no great warmth towards Pakistan. Most of India is young, does not care about Partition and sees Pakistan as just another foreign country and a hostile one at that.

When peace with Pakistan came up, every single person I met was clear: there could only be peace on our terms. And this meant not giving up an inch of Kashmir. Nor was there any support for the idea of more autonomy for Kashmir.

So, let us treat all this liberal rhetoric about how Indians long for peace with scepticism. Our idea of peace is: Pakistan should shut up and behave itself or we will retaliate.

The general view in Delhi is that the BJP is floundering, that it is a party without an issue. Judging by my travels, this view could be seriously mistaken.

There is a massive Hindu backlash building up. The public mood reminded me of the late 1980s, when such issues as Shah Bano and The Satanic Verses so upset moderate Hindus that they turned against Congress-style secularism.

The provocation, this time around, is the attitude of the Muslim political leadership to foreign Islamic issues. No Hindu I met thought it was right for a Danish paper to carry cartoons of the Prophet. But why, they all asked, did Indians Muslims have to get so agitated? What did it have to do with us? Why should a minister in the UP government announce a bounty on the head of the Danish cartoonist? Why should Indian Muslims demand the recall of the Danish ambassador?

I have written about the shameful cop-out by liberal Muslims over these issues before so I will not labour the point. But the Hindu backlash is a perfect issue waiting for a BJP initiative. This time around, the BJP need not focus on how Indian secularism makes Hindus second-class citizens in their own country.

(Nobody buys that line any longer.) All it needs to do is to portray Indian Muslims as unreasonable fanatics obsessed with global Muslim issues and argue that they subscribe to some international pan-Islamic identity that could easily conflict with Indian nationalism.

My feeling is that if liberal Muslims continue to react as pathetically as they have over the last few months and if liberal Hindus do not make it clear that genuine secularism means that we fight all kinds of fanaticism both Hindu and Muslim a new generation of BJP leaders will ride this backlash to return to power. By ignoring the Hindu sentiment, Big Media is making a big mistake.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:29|| 2006-03-05 11:29|| Front Page Top

#9 These Hindus are basically peaceful. Until they are subjected to so much Mooselimb shit they explode. When they are set off, they respond with vengeance. Ususally results in Mooselimb bodies stacked and incinerated. I suggest the rest of the world take a lesson from these people. This , then, produces a period of calm, until the deranged ones start their devilment again.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-03-05 11:35|| 2006-03-05 11:35|| Front Page Top

#10 For those who don't know about Shah Bano....

Shah Bano was a sixty two year old muslim woman who was triple-talaqed (divorced) by her husband and thrown out into the street.

She was not entitled to alimony under muslim personal law but went to the Indian supreme court who that she was entitled to maintenance under the Indian Penal code.

Well, that enraged the muslims, and the Rajiv Gandhi government passed a law that nullified the judgement (they had absolute majority in the Indian parliament and could amend the consitution).

Imagine that.

The parliament of a country of one billion people passed a specific law to deny an old woman her court awarded alimony. An old muslim woman of that era is almost certainly illiterate (muslims did not favor education of girls) and would have been a housewife all her life, (probably married at 12 or 13).

All this to appease muslim bigots...

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:39|| 2006-03-05 11:39|| Front Page Top

#11 John, Thanks very much. Do you doubt they're (Muslims and Indians) going to come to blows sooner or later?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-03-05 11:45|| 2006-03-05 11:45|| Front Page Top

#12 And now young Indians are looking at their TV screens with shock. They see these bearded mullahs running around UP and wonder if they are watching some scene in Pakistan.

President Bush comes to assist India with her energy needs, something that will build the economy and lift tens if not hundreds of millions out of poverty. There is genuine goodwill among the Indian middle class towards George W Bush.

What do the muslims (and their marxist allies) do?
Carry on about cartoons, call Bush a dog.

Young Indians are watching these protests and asking questions about the loyalty of their muslim countrymen...

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:49|| 2006-03-05 11:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Young Indians are watching these protests and asking questions about the loyalty of their muslim countrymen...

could be easily remplaced by

(insert age bracket) (insert nationality) are watching these protests and asking questions about the loyalty of their muslim countrymen...

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-03-05 11:50|| 2006-03-05 11:50|| Front Page Top

#14 For sure.

Posted by Visitor 2006-03-05 11:53|| 2006-03-05 11:53|| Front Page Top

#15 In the article excerpt I posted above, the author notes this hardening of attitudes among the young.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:54|| 2006-03-05 11:54|| Front Page Top

#16 Perv had better reach a peace deal with the Indian government soon.
The old men who fondly remember life before partition are fading away. Indian PM Singh was born in what is now Pakistan, opposition leader LK Advani was born in Karachi.
Musharraf was born in Delhi.

The new generation has no memory of pakistan except as a terrorist sponsoring state. They have grown up under the jihadi threat.

They will not be so accomodating of the Pakistanis or of rampant mullahs.

Posted by john 2006-03-05 11:58|| 2006-03-05 11:58|| Front Page Top

#17 Singh was born in what is now Pakistan, opposition leader LK Advani was born in Karachi.
Musharraf was born in Delhi.

!

Posted by 6 2006-03-05 13:01|| 2006-03-05 13:01|| Front Page Top

#18 AQ Khan was born in Bhopal, India.

Posted by Spirt Ebbagum9854 2006-03-05 18:41|| 2006-03-05 18:41|| Front Page Top

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