Article

2006-06-13 Iraq

Desertion a major problem for Iraqi troops in Anbar

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Posted by Dan Darling 2006-06-13 01:18|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Many of my soldiers have not gotten paid in six months. Sometimes, they dont eat for two or three days at a time. "

They need to find whoever in the Iraqi military that is supposed to have the funds for this unit and HANG them for thievery.

This is inescusable: an army travels on its stomach - Napolean knew that. Wannabees talk tactics, amatuers talk strategy - pros talk logistics.

The US needs to step in there and put in a real QM corps - get the 4B Basics (bullets, beans, barracks and bucks) to the grunts.

They also need to foster commitments - this policy "Iraqi army soldiers do not sign enlistment contracts, allowing them to leave the army whenever they choose" has got to end.

2-way street: get the troops to commit - and commit to the troops.

Who on the US side has let things rot - who let them dirft this far? Small wonder Haditha is an armpit and amush center: if we cant keep the Iraqis in the field there we WILL fail. find the American LTC or COL and his Iraqi counterpart and start beating the hell out of them verbally and leaning on them HARD to produce and SUSTAIN food, pay and quarters for the Iraqi troops.

If we cant get somethign this basic done, and it someone has been sweepign it under the rug this long, then we will lose this thing.

I want the US commander releived for incompetence. Patton woudl not leave a political boob in place like this -he'd fire him and instate a new commander and light a fire under them. Look at the Red-Ball express.

We *can* do this - but *will* we do it? Does the upper part of the chain of command have the guts to admit they hosed it and get to fixing it quick fast and in a hurry?

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-13 03:57|| 2006-06-13 03:57|| Front Page Top

#2 One need not even admint they hosed it; all they have to do is fix it.

Posted by Bobby 2006-06-13 06:36|| 2006-06-13 06:36|| Front Page Top

#3 It's BS Spook, relax.

Posted by 6 2006-06-13 09:17|| 2006-06-13 09:17|| Front Page Top

#4 Old Spook - this is why the appointment of a new Iraqi Defense Minister is so important, among other things to clean up the civilian-support side of the Iraqi MoD. The US military has been overstretched trying to A. Fight the insurgents B. Provide logistics to US troops and C. Build the Iraqi combat forces. Building capacity in the Iraqi MoD has simply been a lower priority. Thats what happens when you fight a war with too few resources, and an aversion to nation building.

We do forget sometimes how important the civilian component of a defense establishment is.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-06-13 09:38|| 2006-06-13 09:38|| Front Page Top

#5 "I want the US commander releived for incompetence. "

AFAIK, the US commanders have made clear to the OSD the needs, including, again AFAIK, the needs wrt capacity building at Iraqi MoD, Iraqi logistics, etc. The place where relief for incompetence is required is at OSD, at the top.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-06-13 09:40|| 2006-06-13 09:40|| Front Page Top

#6 Ask Lt. Uosef what his skim is.

One of the biggest problems in Viet Nam was men who would join the RF/PF, get issued a weapon, then desert and turn the weapon and ammo over the the VC.

Posted by 11A5S 2006-06-13 09:50|| 2006-06-13 09:50|| Front Page Top

#7 We don't run the Iraqi army Old Spook, the Iraqis do.
Rumsfeld has been saying that for a year now and nobody seems to want to listen to him. I'm sure we showed them how to do it, but they would rather steal the money and supplies than distribute it to their military. Corruption and lying seem to be an integral part of ME ehtics.

Posted by Glavitle Crererong6298 2006-06-13 10:42|| 2006-06-13 10:42|| Front Page Top

#8 The food part is critical. If the Iraqis can't get food to their troops, they will break down. Even US forces can't fight without food.

That being said, the US military should heavily subsidize bulk food for them. It doesn't have to be high quality, mostly just bags of rice and beans, but that is enough. And they could even stimulate the local economy by buying it from local farmers.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-06-13 11:11|| 2006-06-13 11:11|| Front Page Top

#9 This is actually old news. A fox reporter embedded with the Marines reported this back in 03/06.

Strategy Page also had a story on this. The Iraqi Army depends on the soldier's family to provide alot of the support we would expect from a logistical tail. As a result, when recruits get moved away from their families, they tend to desert.

Apparently this is not unusual for unusual for 3rd world armies.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2006-06-13 11:28|| 2006-06-13 11:28|| Front Page Top

#10 "We don't run the Iraqi army Old Spook, the Iraqis do.
Rumsfeld has been saying that for a year now and nobody seems to want to listen to him. I'm sure we showed them how to do it, but they would rather steal the money and supplies than distribute it to their military. Corruption and lying seem to be an integral part of ME ehtics."

Mebbe so, but I bet the Jordanian army gets paid regularly, regardless. It was and is Rummys job to have do whatever it takes to get the Iraqi Ministry of Defense up to speed enough to maintain democracy against the terrorists. Was it always going to be hard to do that? Damned straight it was. Did Rummy take seriously in March 2003 how hard such an important task would be? Did he tell us? Did he bother to protect the old Iraqi MoD building when it was looted? To keep a core of MoD employees in place?

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-06-13 13:15|| 2006-06-13 13:15|| Front Page Top

#11 Actally, having been there, the Iraqi Army is run independantly AND effectively in only a few places - mainly the Kurds, they have got their sh*t stright. Ther rest is still hobbled by "Arab Culture" and the graft and fundamental laziness and dishonesty it encompasses.

And if ANYONE here thinks that the US cannot affect changes of that sort in the Iraqi military, then you've been listening to too much propaganda. If *we* want it to happen, and we put the time, money and troops on it, we can change the Iraq Army.

It starts with the officer corps in one area, and the fundamental terms of service for the lowest enlisted. The Officers MUST be held to First-World standards, and we need to prop them up fiscally and with "side-ride" US trainers in sufficient numbers. Change how the officers see thier service - make the Army their "tribe". It worked well in the past in Jordan, and in parts of the Egyptian Army (some of which were very competent - gave the Isralis fits in 73). Low tolerance for failure, for corruption and for the old "eshallah" shoulder shrug.

While they do that, take the enlisted, make sure they get basic pay and food and barracks, and be sure when they are in the field, they concentrate on training & equipment. Then make them realize this isnt a third-world Army where they go home whenever they feel like bugging out - its a "Im here for X years" deal (X > 2), and they should expect more of the Army. Also, by policy NO soldier should serve in a unit that is more than 45% of any individual ethnic group, and when possible, a soldier should be assigned outside the region he is from. Assign US advisors to these units to help the process along and top break up logjams.

If they were, we'd have a far larger number of competent lower rankign NCOs and junior officers, given all teh combat excperice they have gotten. Nothing "un-greens" a new soldier like combat. Take the best of that crop -- the platoon SGTS and Company commanders that have proven themselves, and move them into Senior Enlisetd and Battalion Commander roles, make sure they realize that the Commander commands and the Sr-E takes care of morale, but BOTH are required to lead, by word and deed.

These are fundamental issues that should have been emplaced from day-one.

Why has this not happened? Why are there still units that are combat ineffective as well as not getting the extra trainignand attention such units need? THAT is my question - if we know there is a problem with a unit, we can go to the IZ commander and go up the chain of command until we get the "right" answer - then go downthe chain of command and relieve any and all who stonewalled or buck-passed.

They dont need a third-world army, they need an effective army - and the only way to get one of those is to get good officers and good NCOs that will commit to each other and their nation "for the duration".

Sorry gy, ranging, I know, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine - our not breaking the Iraqi Army of "Arab Culture" and its bad habits.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-13 14:38|| 2006-06-13 14:38|| Front Page Top

#12 Great writing, Oldspook. It's difficult to believe that our own Army is incapable of following the simple doctrine that you've outlined. It is, literally, one of the only ways to combat the current problems in Iraq.

With respect to your last line, I'm afraid that "Arab Culture" will have to be broken of every last vestige of "Arab Culture" before this world will be safe. Arabs have already shown themselves to be their own worst enemies. How strange it is to watch the rest of the world have such a difficult time comprehending that Arabs are (in general) our own worst enemies as well.

Posted by Zenster 2006-06-13 21:36|| 2006-06-13 21:36|| Front Page Top

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