Article

2006-08-30 -Lurid Crime Tales-

Arranged nuptials may have stressed suspect, relatives say

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by ed 2006-08-30 08:01|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 One report had the Muz saying, "I am a terrorist."

Yet another example of Sudden-Jihad-Syndrome. Coming to your neighborhood soon, Allah willing.

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-08-30 08:44|| 2006-08-30 08:44|| Front Page Top

#2 Or an example of schizophrenia, and a psychotic break. Late 20s is the classic age for onset of that illness.

Friends and relatives said Popal had been hearing voices

Maybe they're blowing smoke, but quite possibly they're not.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 09:05|| 2006-08-30 09:05|| Front Page Top

#3 THose arranged marriages sure can be stressful . . .

'...Now, listen, lad. In twenty minutes you're gettin' married to a girl whose father owns the biggest *tracts* of open land in Britain."

"But I don't want land!"

"Listen, Alex..."

"'Erbert..."

"'Erbert. We live in a bloody swamp! We need all the land we can get!!"

"But... but I don't *like* 'er!"

"Don't like 'er?!? What's wrong with 'er? She's...beautiful, she's...*rich*, she's got... HUGE.............tracts o' land..."

"Ah...ah know. But I want the girl that I marry to have...a certain...*special*...something..."

"Cut that out!! Cut that out.... You're marryin' Princess Lucky, so you'd better get used to the idea!"

Posted by Mike 2006-08-30 09:13|| 2006-08-30 09:13|| Front Page Top

#4 From the link at Michelle Malkin's site:

A woman who identified herself as his cousin said he was having recurring nightmares about someone coming to kill him and had been taking medication.

Right now I'm laying odds this is not an intentional 'jihad' so much as a psychotic break in the context of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. I'm not wedded to this theory -- new info could change that.

But just as Charles Johnson and Allahpundit speak up when photos are falsely claimed to be photoshopped, so too I think it's important not to always assume that violence by a Muslim is meant to be jihad.

If this guy was on psychoactive drugs, went to Afghanistan, was even more freaked by the whole bit there and kept hearing the word 'jihad' he might well have used it yesterday. But if he wasn't coherent, that's just a sound -- doesn't automatically mean he is an Islamacist who wanted to kill Americans or Jews.

Just worth keeping in mind. We have enough of the real kind around, it just muddies things if we see jihad when it isn't there.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 09:33|| 2006-08-30 09:33|| Front Page Top

#5 OK, the next obvious stupid question is...

What medicines did they have him on?

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 09:41|| 2006-08-30 09:41|| Front Page Top

#6 That's a Murky News article.

The Comical adds:

But those involved in the investigation -- speaking on condition of anonymity -- discount any mental illness, saying the 29-year-old Afghanistan native seemed coherent, unrepentant and claimed that he repeatedly drove at pedestrians because he "just wanted to.''

About two months ago, Popal falsely confessed to killing someone in San Francisco, Samara said. He said Popal was interviewed by investigators in Fremont and his statement turned out to be a "John Karr confession,''

A month ago, the one-time autoworker returned home after getting married in his native Afghanistan, his family said. There was a wedding celebration two weeks ago, and Popal seemed to have everything to live for, some family members said. The family said Popal's father had arranged the marriage.

Popal was usually friendly but wasn't talkative lately, Silva said. "It seemed like since he got married he quieted down," he said.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 09:53|| 2006-08-30 09:53|| Front Page Top

#7 Maybe it's "Sudden Jihad Syndrome", maybe it's not; probably not, from what I've read. Maybe the guy's just schizophrenic, maybe he's not. Kinda sounds like it.

But whatever, I think it's probably a pretty damn safe bet that Islam provided a major component of the "flavor" of this guy's deeds (Shamed? Dishonored? Then go out and kill a bunch of kufr for Allah!) as well as most of the propulsive force.

Islam: making crazy people crazier for 1,400 years...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-08-30 09:55|| 2006-08-30 09:55|| Front Page Top

#8 Gamil Gharbi, an Algerian immigrant to Canada, slaughtered 14 women who were insufficiently deferential to his Arab maleness. (Political correctitude prevented media reference to his Muslim background.) In fact, the murderer was referred to only by his Kafir name, Marc Lepine.

http://www.vdare.com/fulford/051208_fulford_file.htm

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-08-30 10:07|| 2006-08-30 10:07|| Front Page Top

#9 If he didn't care for the old arrangment, he's unlikely to enjoy the new one he has in San Francisco prison. Or maybe...

Posted by Ebbeng Elmetch7992 2006-08-30 10:10|| 2006-08-30 10:10|| Front Page Top

#10 For men, the age of onset for schizophrenia is often ages 16 to 20. He's 29.

Posted by Darrell 2006-08-30 10:10|| 2006-08-30 10:10|| Front Page Top

#11 Whereas when wosshername in Houston killed _her_ kids after her psychotic break, she added a Christian context to her actions.

I'm not saying it's what happened... but imagine that this guy was carrying the genetic factors for schizophrenia (hell, let's just start out by saying there are genetic factors for schizophrenia, although I don't think they've been found).

His family doctor picks up that _something_ is wrong, prescribes him antidepressants which either make it worse, or mask the problem as it gets worse naturally, or both. His family decides it's because he's lonely so they arrange a marriage for him, in the idea that a little (well, you know) might help his mental state.

And when it turns out that neither of those are particularly helpful to what he actually had... this is what you get.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 10:11|| 2006-08-30 10:11|| Front Page Top

#12 I offer that as a hypothetical. I don't know if that's what happened. Usually in cases like this they avoid mentioning stuff like what specific drugs they were on, or how that might actually aggravate pre-existing conditions if the shrinkologists have guessed wrong.

(The big classical example in that sort of case is giving antidepressants to someone with bipolar or "schizoaffective" disorder.)

Gotta run.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 10:13|| 2006-08-30 10:13|| Front Page Top

#13 Just like in North Carolina. All the doctor's fault.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 10:14|| 2006-08-30 10:14|| Front Page Top

#14 Is he "bipolar" yet?

Posted by tu3031 2006-08-30 10:19|| 2006-08-30 10:19|| Front Page Top

#15 How many total points did this guy score ?

Posted by wxjames 2006-08-30 11:22|| 2006-08-30 11:22|| Front Page Top

#16 Standard scoring or Massachusetts rules?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 11:26|| 2006-08-30 11:26|| Front Page Top

#17 Does anyone give a shit what set the moonbat off ? He very purposely tried to kill a number of people. Give him a nice trial and execute this scum.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-08-30 11:36|| 2006-08-30 11:36|| Front Page Top

#18 I do, primarily because if we're connecting dots about the prevalence of jihadism - or its likely emergence in lone muslims - then I'd like us to be connecting dots that are valid.

And secondarily, if this guy really is schizophrenic, schizoaffective or bipolar suffering a psychotic break, then he should be treated differently than a sane man who chose to be murderous.

And no, the fact that the guy may (or may not) have claimed to be a terrorist doesn't prove anything, by itself. The Chapel Hill guy was lucid over time and gave extended interviews in which he advanced the usual Islamacist ideology. This guy hasn't, at least not to this point.

#12 AS is right - a potential schizoaffective or schizophrenic given antidepressants will often emerge into a psychotic break within a few weeks or months.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 11:48|| 2006-08-30 11:48|| Front Page Top

#19 "Hearing voices" is also one of the side effects of methamphetimine addiction. Know that from the experiences of my 30-year-old son who got hooked. They put him on massive doses of anti-depressants and other psychoactive drugs. I also believe that heroin addicts "hear voices". He might have gone to Afghanistan, got together with his relatives, and had a quiet "pipeful" or two... It doesn't really matter - the guy is a threat to himself and obviously to others, and needs to be locked up for a long, long time. Whether he needs treatment or not is irrelevant.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2006-08-30 12:06|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2006-08-30 12:06|| Front Page Top

#20 Agreed with the lockup. Disagree it's irrelevant. Too many people are assuming he was on jihad and killing Jews in particular.

Maybe he was. And certainly the MSM wouldn't report it if it were true. But let's wait for real evidence on that before we just assume it's true because he's Muslim.

After all, yesterday he was reported to have said he wanted to kill his family next -- a family that was sufficiently traditional to send him to Afghanistan for an arranged marriage to an Afghan woman.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 12:09|| 2006-08-30 12:09|| Front Page Top

#21 This is San Fran so my prediction is.Lawyer up (Public Defender), psych evaluation, plea bargain based on mental deficiency with a touch of cultural time-bomb syndrome, time served plus probation and ongoing mental health treatment at taxpayer expense. *sigh*

Posted by DepotGuy 2006-08-30 12:09|| 2006-08-30 12:09|| Front Page Top

#22 Good point, OP.

Would it be too shocking for the "libertarians" and/or the people who think psychotic breaks don't happen and/or the just plain oversensitive for me to point out that heroin, methamphetamines, or cocaine use can also cause the sort of psychotic breaks I mentioned earlier in the thread?

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 12:10|| 2006-08-30 12:10|| Front Page Top

#23 Abdominal Snowman,

As psychosis vulnerability is inherited, are you also planning to ban those carrying the genes, they are a much higher risk than former drug users.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2006-08-30 12:17|| 2006-08-30 12:17|| Front Page Top

#24 No, I wasn't. I suppose you think I'm a fucking hypocrite for saying that.

Last time I checked, though, undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) people with affective disorders attempting to self-medicate accounted for a significantly high fraction of illicit drug users.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 12:20|| 2006-08-30 12:20|| Front Page Top

#25 Does it leave somebody with the ability to drive from target practice in Fremont to a Jewish neighborhood in the middle of San Francisco and then suddenly lose it and start plinking pedestrians with an SUV?

What will we call it the next time this kind of mass murder with a Muslim moving vehicle occurs?

Or are most of the Jihadis mentally normal? To my mind, anybody who is a Jihadi is a couple of beers short of a six pack. The specific diagnosis doesn't matter.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 12:24|| 2006-08-30 12:24|| Front Page Top

#26 If he is truely unstable, hospitalize his ass, otherwise shoot his ass.

Simple.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2006-08-30 12:29|| 2006-08-30 12:29|| Front Page Top

#27 I'd say the unstable version needs a killin' too. But that's just me.

Posted by mcsegeek1 2006-08-30 12:35|| 2006-08-30 12:35|| Front Page Top

#28 Does it leave somebody with the ability to drive from target practice in Fremont to a Jewish neighborhood in the middle of San Francisco and then suddenly lose it and start plinking pedestrians with an SUV?

Short answer - yes.

AS is right that people self-medicating for affective disorders represent a significant proportion of those who abuse illegal drugs.

OP is right that other drugs can cause psychosis-like symptoms. Conversely, Ecstasy is known to trigger schizophrenia, affective disorders and sometimes psychotic breaks in some who are genetically susceptible to those problems. There are some complex inter-relationships between genetics, behaviors like drug use and visible symptoms of these disorders.

I agree with Darth V. on the response to this guy.

I disagree that jihadis are necessarily a beer short of a sixpack. Terror tactics are rationally efficient when those targeted react the way the West has done for a good while. Suicide bombers are more problematic, as there is evidence that the terror networks prey on the unstable for that role. But not always.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 13:07|| 2006-08-30 13:07|| Front Page Top

#29 Ahhhh, the rational and the emotional. Both valid viewpoints. Opinons are like navels - everybody has one.

Posted by Bobby 2006-08-30 13:18|| 2006-08-30 13:18|| Front Page Top

#30 I am now convinced Thomas Szasz is right.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 13:23|| 2006-08-30 13:23|| Front Page Top

#31 Ahhhh, the rational and the emotional. Both valid viewpoints. Opinons are like navels - everybody has one.

I knew I could count on Rantburg for my daily dose of relativism.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 13:38|| 2006-08-30 13:38|| Front Page Top

#32 I am now convinced Thomas Szasz is right.

I'm a little unclear on Szasz's history. Is he ever going to share his magical schizophrenia cure with the rest of the world, or does he just stick to therapy sessions with people with Woody Allen syndrone?

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 13:46|| 2006-08-30 13:46|| Front Page Top

#33 OK, let me bring up another case. Andrea Yates.

Near the time of her psychotic break and subsequent murder spree she was seeing a doctor who prescribed her Haldol.

When he did so, her symptoms went away. He then figured she was cured and then discontinued the course of treatment.

Then when the inetivable eventually happened we got bombarded for the next couple years with news reports about how horrible it was that her husband was an evangelical christian.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 13:51|| 2006-08-30 13:51|| Front Page Top

#34 I knew I could count on Rantburg for my daily dose of relativism.

Opinions are relative, facts are not.

Sometimes we disagree on what is a fact.

Relativism, in the pejorative sense, is the notion that my opinions or theories are equivalent to your facts.

Posted by Bobby 2006-08-30 13:56|| 2006-08-30 13:56|| Front Page Top

#35 You guys are off track. We're not supposed to be talking about the Muslim (terrorist) who mowed down people in SF or the Muzzy who shot up the Joos in Seattle. The press has decided it's all about Karr now. Get with it!

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2006-08-30 14:01|| 2006-08-30 14:01|| Front Page Top

#36 intrinsicpilot, I couldn't agree with you more about the MSM's agenda and priorities.

Nor about the guy in Seattle.

But this guy, I'm not sure he's a terrorist. He might be. But I know enough about some mental illnesses to look at the info that's out there so far and have some serious doubts.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 14:04|| 2006-08-30 14:04|| Front Page Top

#37 Maybe he's not a terrorist but I can't stand to see the length at which the MSM will go to cover up the fact he's a Muzzy. If it's determined that he's not mentally ill then the press will call himm something else. Never terrorist. Maybe an Afghan freedom fighter? Perhaps a displaced separatist? Or the good old standby, a "rebel".

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2006-08-30 14:11|| 2006-08-30 14:11|| Front Page Top

#38 yeah -- and it infuriates me too! We *do* have to break though the MSM conspiracy of PC silence.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 14:17|| 2006-08-30 14:17|| Front Page Top

#39 Given the city, is the Twinkie Defense a possibility?

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2006-08-30 14:18|| 2006-08-30 14:18|| Front Page Top

#40 If he's a fireman.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-30 14:20|| 2006-08-30 14:20|| Front Page Top

#41 I'm with lotp on this one: first, figure out if he has a significant psychiatric problem. Without all the facts I can't even begin to hazard a guess, but a competent forensic psychiatrist combined with a good medical psychiatrist can get the job done.

If he has a psychiatric problem, you then have to figure out if he meets the legal definition of insane. Again, I don't know near all the facts.

If he has a psychiatric problem, he gets treated. If he's insane, he gets hospitalized for a long time. If he's sane, he gets tried in a court.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-08-30 14:37|| 2006-08-30 14:37|| Front Page Top

#42 This guys gonna walk. It will be a conspiracy something like this:

SF public defender gets money and help from local CAIR rep and shops the case to his favorite penis-pump judge for a quick dismissal.

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2006-08-30 14:52|| 2006-08-30 14:52|| Front Page Top

#43 I disagree that jihadis are necessarily a beer short of a sixpack.

lotp, please see my post in the other "SF Hit & Run" thread concerning Islam and how it resembles mental illness.

Terror tactics are rationally efficient when those targeted react the way the West has done for a good while.

And here I think you are totally off base. Have you read Wretchard's "The Three Conjectures"? If so, you might want to reconsider your stance. The West's patience with Islam is running out. Any "rational" terrorist (if such a thing even exists), must certainly be able to project the eventual outcome of repeated and escalating atrocities. However debatable Hitler's mental health may be, he most certainly knew that his only chance of imposing Nazism upon this world was by force and that he faced certain annihilation if he proved unable to do so.

So it is with Islamic fascism. Without genuine and authentic religious reformation Islamist terrorism, too, will continue to escalate until the only recourse is annihilation of all Muslims. Islamic leaders clearly understand this and the proof of it is their feverish scramble to acquire nuclear weapons as a shield and tool for their vile undertakings.

Please do not proclaim such profound shortsightedness to be "rationally efficient" when, in fact, it is a near-guarantee of extermination.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-30 15:42|| 2006-08-30 15:42|| Front Page Top

#44 Wretchard assumes the West ultimately will defend itself. Up until now, that assumption might be questioned based on how Europe and to some degree we have responded to their aggression.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-30 15:51|| 2006-08-30 15:51|| Front Page Top

#45 This guys gonna walk. It will be a conspiracy something like this:

SF public defender gets money and help from local CAIR rep and shops the case to his favorite penis-pump judge for a quick dismissal.

And we're all part of the conspiracy by talking about the possibility that this guy had a psychotic break, right?

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-08-30 15:52|| 2006-08-30 15:52|| Front Page Top

#46 Wretchard assumes the West ultimately will defend itself.

Take that to the bank.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-30 15:59|| 2006-08-30 15:59|| Front Page Top

#47 Let me see if I got this straight:
Lack of sex causes man to hear voices, causes man to go crazy and run over people with an SUV.

If that were true, there would be several incidents like this every day.

This incident proves sex is a misdemeanor. The more you miss the meaner you get.

Al

Posted by frozen al">frozen al 2006-08-30 16:17|| 2006-08-30 16:17|| Front Page Top

#48 Al, if that were true I'd be the meanest SOB in the world.

Posted by Shineling Hupemble1026 2006-08-30 16:48|| 2006-08-30 16:48|| Front Page Top

#49 #48 was me. The Cookie Monster got me again.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2006-08-30 16:49|| 2006-08-30 16:49|| Front Page Top

#50 Mizzou nailed it. The rest of you guys are just hyperventilating. The jihadi punk probably ate a whole damn box of those things just before he got behind the wheel. We should all be glad it wasn't HO HOs!

Posted by mac 2006-08-30 17:46|| 2006-08-30 17:46|| Front Page Top

#51 Maybe he was. And certainly the MSM wouldn't report it if it were true. But let's wait for real evidence on that before we just assume it's true because he's Muslim.

Nah. Assume it's true because he's a Muslim who just got back from Pakistan.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2006-08-30 18:14|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-08-30 18:14|| Front Page Top

#52 Assume it's true because he's a Muslim who just got back from Pakistan.

It was Afghanistan, RC. Still no reason why he couldn't have gotten an ~~infection~~ earful of jihadist bullsh!t.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-30 18:17|| 2006-08-30 18:17|| Front Page Top

#53 So was this asshat doing this as a jihad? I'm seeing different reations here.

Posted by Thoth 2006-08-30 21:09|| 2006-08-30 21:09|| Front Page Top

#54 OMG!!! He got homicidal bloo balls over that!!~???!!

Posted by Thoth 2006-08-30 21:10|| 2006-08-30 21:10|| Front Page Top

23:52 Zenster
23:49 Zenster
23:45 Zenster
23:41 Frank G
23:41 JosephMendiola
23:34 Frank G
23:33 Zenster
23:33 JosephMendiola
23:33 Frank G
23:30 Zenster
23:28 Zenster
23:27 trailing wife
23:22 JosephMendiola
23:21 Zenster
23:17 Dreadnought
23:16 Zenster
23:14 Flump Flenter9237
23:12 trailing wife
23:10 Xenophon
23:06 Zenster
23:02 Remoteman
23:02 JosephMendiola
23:01 Remoteman
23:00 WITT