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2007-03-23 Iraq

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Posted by Glenmore 2007-03-23 08:16|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Is Iran just begging to get bombed into the stone age?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-03-23 08:21|| 2007-03-23 08:21|| Front Page Top

#2 The Foreign Office said Iran's ambassador in London had been summoned and Britain was demanding their immediate safe release.

Yeah, that'll happen.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-03-23 08:23|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-03-23 08:23|| Front Page Top

#3 And Tony Blair is said to be very cross indeed... they'll show us up for the pussies they know we are.

Posted by Howard UK 2007-03-23 08:28|| 2007-03-23 08:28|| Front Page Top

#4 Ahmadinejad just told his people last week to kidnap some Americans in retaliation for the kidnapped/defected Iranians that have been turning up missing. I guess he found these Brits more vulnerable.

Maybe when Ahmadinejad shows up at the UN he should be detained - no, can't do that, diplomatic immunity, and we all know how strongly Iran feels about that concept.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-03-23 08:32|| 2007-03-23 08:32|| Front Page Top

#5 always a chance, a miscalculation. Like to see the Brits hammer them, but they'll probably jaw jaw and talk talk instead.

Snatching folks seems to be Iran's choice more often than not.

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 08:32|| 2007-03-23 08:32|| Front Page Top

#6 In a totally unrelated piece of news, Tel Aviv's municipality ordered the check on the fitness of bomb shelters.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-03-23 08:47|| 2007-03-23 08:47|| Front Page Top

#7 they'll probably jaw jaw and talk talk instead.

You are wrong; they will Haw-Haw.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-03-23 08:47|| 2007-03-23 08:47|| Front Page Top

#8 If the current leadership were in power during WWII, Germany would have been handed the keys to 10 Downing Street.

Posted by Perfesser 2007-03-23 08:47|| 2007-03-23 08:47|| Front Page Top

#9 Isn't the French aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf right now? I can't believe that didn't deter the Iranians from this action.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-03-23 08:49|| 2007-03-23 08:49|| Front Page Top

#10 15 UK Navy personnel held by Iran

I hope we have a mountain of MLRS, ATACMS, BUFFs, B1, B2, the whole family of Cruise Missiles, anti-ship, surface to surface and extra ammo, IN THEATER.

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 08:49|| 2007-03-23 08:49|| Front Page Top

#11 Didn't the same happen a while ago?
Does anybody remember?

Posted by Unavick Thinesh5145 2007-03-23 08:52|| 2007-03-23 08:52|| Front Page Top

#12 I like Glenmore's idea.

Anyone else see this as "Daniele Mastrogiacomo, Part Duo"? Those Iranians are quick on the uptake.

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 09:01|| 2007-03-23 09:01|| Front Page Top

#13 As a Brit myself I know Tony is a pussy, Problem is George Bush was not awake when it happened , hopefully after he's had his breakfast he will send some B-52's in tehrans direction, better would be an ICBM

Posted by Alex 2007-03-23 09:06|| 2007-03-23 09:06|| Front Page Top

#14 From a Sky News wire:

The forces, who were from the Type 22 frigate HMS Cornwall...

Assuming that the Cornwall was within visual range of the boarding party and was tracking the Iranian naval elements, I think it's safe to presume that the ROE imposed on RN vessels in the area are extremely restrictive.

It must have been a bit troubling standing on the bridge watching Persian warships cross into Iraqi national waters and then observe them calmly abscond with fifteen of your crewmen.

Posted by mrp 2007-03-23 09:16|| 2007-03-23 09:16|| Front Page Top

#15 I told ya' weeks ago, that the 'tit for tat' was comin!! Watch for the 'private swap', no news please!

Posted by smn 2007-03-23 09:20|| 2007-03-23 09:20|| Front Page Top

#16 We are all going to get exactly what we deserve unless and until we elect representative who will do their damned jobs. The Prime Minister should be dismissed over this as incompetent in his duty. If Her Majesty's ministers will not protect the realm it will be left to the citizenry to do so. When that happens the results will not be pretty.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-03-23 09:21|| 2007-03-23 09:21|| Front Page Top

#17 JFM, You are wrong; they will Haw-Haw.

As in this HAW HAW? real player

;-)

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 09:22|| 2007-03-23 09:22|| Front Page Top

#18 I wonder how that Iraq war vote thingy will go today in Congress...

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2007-03-23 09:24|| 2007-03-23 09:24|| Front Page Top

#19 Of course, my question is why did the crew let 15 of their fellow Englishmen get taken?

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-03-23 09:26|| 2007-03-23 09:26|| Front Page Top

#20 you'd would have hoped that all personal in theater would have been on alert for exactly this kind '0' krap.

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 09:29|| 2007-03-23 09:29|| Front Page Top

#21 Yes, RD that Haw-Haw.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-03-23 09:30|| 2007-03-23 09:30|| Front Page Top

#22 bastid [haw haw] was born in Brooklyn.

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 09:38|| 2007-03-23 09:38|| Front Page Top

#23 How in the hell did this Type-22 Broadsword-class frigate, bristling with weaponry, get boarded and without any Naval or Air backup from the UK or US?

Posted by Jesing Ebbease3087 2007-03-23 09:42|| 2007-03-23 09:42|| Front Page Top

#24 JE
It wasn't the frigate itself that got boarded, but two small boats that carried a boarding party to check a suspected smuggling ship. Apparently the Iranian vessels intercepted the boats on their way back to the frigate. It is still an open question how, and why, the frigate allowed them to get so close to its boats.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2007-03-23 09:48|| 2007-03-23 09:48|| Front Page Top

#25 Operation Praying Mantis (1988)

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2007-03-23 09:50|| 2007-03-23 09:50|| Front Page Top

#26 Thanks for the info, yeah good open question.

Posted by Jesing Ebbease3087 2007-03-23 09:50|| 2007-03-23 09:50|| Front Page Top

#27 It might be prudent to adhere to the First Report rule on this one. Iranian logic is an oxymoron but this isnt a time when Tehran needs another International incident where theyre proven to be in the wrong. This report says they were captured in Iraqi waters but maybejust maybe the Brits were indeed in Iranian territory prior to that event.

Posted by DepotGuy 2007-03-23 09:58|| 2007-03-23 09:58|| Front Page Top

#28 this did happen not that long ago.

Script goes like this. Iranians will claim the were in Iran territorial waters. Will loudly claim this is no different from US seizures of Al Quds operatives in Iraq. UK will start dragging in technical stuff, GPS, etc to show they were in Iraqi waters. They will be quietly let go. Iran will have achieved its main purpose, propaganda.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-03-23 10:11|| 2007-03-23 10:11|| Front Page Top

#29 It wasn't the frigate itself that got boarded, but two small boats that carried a boarding party to check a suspected smuggling ship.

I think the Iranians just confirmed it WAS a smuggling ship.

Posted by Danielle 2007-03-23 10:23|| 2007-03-23 10:23|| Front Page Top

#30 Laden with centrifuges.

Posted by Howard UK 2007-03-23 10:32|| 2007-03-23 10:32|| Front Page Top

#31 You may be right, LH. If so, what propaganda gain would you say this gets them?

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 10:40|| 2007-03-23 10:40|| Front Page Top

#32 and predictably, our friends at DU . . .

(preview: This is a Chimpy McHaliBu$hitler setup)

Posted by spiffo 2007-03-23 11:10|| 2007-03-23 11:10|| Front Page Top

#33 Give them 2 hours to turn over the sialors then bomb a refinery. Should be within the UK's capabilities. Rinse and repeat. Things escalate and the US has it's causus belli (again)

Posted by jds 2007-03-23 11:11|| 2007-03-23 11:11|| Front Page Top

#34 31.

The locals will here how tough they were, arresting the EEVIL brit spies who were invading their territorial waters. the release wont be publicized domestically.

In the muslim world, it will be see, we're only defending ourselves, if they can arrest our guys in Iraq, why cant we arrest their guys in Iran? Typical hypocritical westerners. The release will be spun as Iranian moderation - "now why dont they release OUR guys?" At least some fence sitters in the muslim world will buy that. Not too many will be outraged. All the outrage will be in UK, but theyve already discounted that. Wisely or not, we shall see.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-03-23 11:14|| 2007-03-23 11:14|| Front Page Top

#35 The question in my mind is, what was on the vessel the Brits were attempting to board and inspect?

It seems as if the Insanians were acting in an effort to prevent discovery of something (or someone?).

Posted by eltoroverde 2007-03-23 11:33|| 2007-03-23 11:33|| Front Page Top

#36 I suspect the Iranians weren't responding to the ship inspection, but to the opportunity presented by two small boats full of British sailors. This is a jihadist regime, they follow the old fashioned dictate: anything can be defined afterwards as an opportunity.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-03-23 11:49|| 2007-03-23 11:49|| Front Page Top

#37 Iranians could be looking for bargaining chips to try to get back their missing General, General Ali Reza Asgari.

Posted by RadiatorUK 2007-03-23 11:56|| 2007-03-23 11:56|| Front Page Top

#38 Let's all hope that:

A.) The Iranian assets are in American hands.

B.) Our leadership will have the spine not to release them into British custody.

C.) This incident finally serves as a more than ample casus belli for a decades overdue massive retaliation against Iran.

Iran couldn't beg for an @sskicking any harder if it was the beggingest day of their lives and they had an electric begging machine.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 12:18|| 2007-03-23 12:18|| Front Page Top

#39 Anyone for a naval blockade? The Iranians would become the Irate-ians once the flow of all that imported gasoline stopped.

Posted by SteveS 2007-03-23 12:26|| 2007-03-23 12:26|| Front Page Top

#40 You're right Zen. These guys couldn't beg any harder. They have been giving us the finger on the nuke thing, sending bombs and parts into Iraq, sending infiltrators in to destabilize Iraq and talking a whole lot of sh*t the entire time. Now this. I've always thought they've got something up their sleeve. Nobody in their right mind would beg sooo hard for some whoopass.

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2007-03-23 12:33|| 2007-03-23 12:33|| Front Page Top

#41 Maybe when Ahmadinejad shows up at the UN he should be detained - no, can't do that, diplomatic immunity

And announces the release of the prisoners.

Posted by Shipman">Shipman 2007-03-23 13:56|| 2007-03-23 13:56|| Front Page Top

#42 I'm guessing 15 Brits are being held in the centrifuge rooms by now. Of course, centrifuges are useless without electricity.

On a related note, wouldn't it be nice if Ahmanutjob's plane mysteriously disappeared over the Atlantic today. Iranian aircraft maintenance not too good.

Posted by Darrell 2007-03-23 13:56|| 2007-03-23 13:56|| Front Page Top

#43 I wonder how that Iraq war vote thingy will go today in Congress...

In a stunning victory for Big Spinach, the bill to put an end to Chimpy McBushitlerBurton's smirky rodeo ride through the Middle East passed the House 218-212. (I wonder who the 5 were who didn't vote.)

I expect the Senate to be bogged down for a good while unless the President wants it to pass so he can pointedly veto it.

Posted by eLarson 2007-03-23 13:58|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2007-03-23 13:58|| Front Page Top

#44 Maybe when Ahmadinejad shows up at the UN he should be detained - no, can't do that, diplomatic immunity

Howsabout we detain him for 444 days and call it even?

Posted by SteveS 2007-03-23 14:24|| 2007-03-23 14:24|| Front Page Top

#45 Shipman-yep.

Anything we can do to out-propaganda that?

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 14:25|| 2007-03-23 14:25|| Front Page Top

#46 From Time, via CNN:

"The Iranian president's trip may be delayed because Washington says it has yet to process the visa applications and security checks of his large entourage."

Hmmm...

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 14:58|| 2007-03-23 14:58|| Front Page Top

#47 "Is Iran just begging to get bombed into the stone age?"

They would be, if any of us in the West still had balls enough to do the bombing.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 15:00|| 2007-03-23 15:00|| Front Page Top

#48 Video: 1988 USS Samuel B Roberts Persian Gulf

Posted by RD 2007-03-23 15:24|| 2007-03-23 15:24|| Front Page Top

#49 All I want is for them to come home, but if they ain't home soon (1 week) then... in fact we should just bomb them now, it's ridiculous. Of course the RAF is capable of bombing Iran!

Posted by Devilstoenail 2007-03-23 15:26|| 2007-03-23 15:26|| Front Page Top

#50 "Of course the RAF is capable of bombing Iran!"

Capability isn't the issue; either the UK or the USA could reduce nearly all of Iran to smoking ruin inside of a week if they chose to, without even resorting to nuclear weapons. And probably without losing a single airplane or ship, for that matter. It would be like clubbing baby seals.

We have the power, but we also have a nearly complete failure of will to use that power. Why do the Iranians pull this crap? Because they KNOW that the rot within the West has penetrated so deep that there's almost zero chance they'll have to endure any consequences.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 15:49|| 2007-03-23 15:49|| Front Page Top

#51 Why do the Iranians pull this crap? Because they KNOW that the rot within the West has penetrated so deep that there's almost zero chance they'll have to endure any consequences.

I'm finally beginning to think that the West's failure of will is a far greater threat to our civilization than Islamic terrorism. This is far worse than Political Correctness or Multiculturalism. I'm damned if I can figure out what causes this sort of spontaneous moral paralysis. Hell, the way it stands, an angry boy scout with a slingshot could take over this entire country unopposed.

Worst of all is how the West's spinelessness not only emboldens our foes but lends artificial creedence to the notion that a guilt-stricken collective conscience or some such self-hating nonsense is responsible for our inaction.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 16:38|| 2007-03-23 16:38|| Front Page Top

#52 "Worst of all is how the West's spinelessness not only emboldens our foes but lends artificial creedence to the notion that a guilt-stricken collective conscience or some such self-hating nonsense is responsible for our inaction."

Spinelessness and guilt-stricken collective conscience/self-hating are not mutually exclusive. I would argue that it's a set of traits that are the problem.

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 16:48|| 2007-03-23 16:48|| Front Page Top

#53 Maybe he's defecting.

Posted by plainslow 2007-03-23 16:50|| 2007-03-23 16:50|| Front Page Top

#54 Folks seem to be enjoying wallowing in defeatism even before any defeat.

Posted by JSU 2007-03-23 16:52|| 2007-03-23 16:52|| Front Page Top

#55 Let me correct your mistaken impression, then: we're not "wallowing in defeatism"; we're railing AGAINST defeatism (e.g., the nonstop talk of withdrawal coming from our Democrats).

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 16:59|| 2007-03-23 16:59|| Front Page Top

#56 Moral self-doubt in the West goes back to the 19th century. We're witnessing the agony of counter-Enlightenment. WW II and the Cold War were the culmination of that movement as a political/military force.

Moslems think they have one more shot at destroying the fruits of Enlightenment. They may be right, unless the West finds in itself sufficient numbers of people willing to kill whoever wants to murder or enslave us.

Western indecision facing Rhineland, Munich, Dachau and so on was not an accident. Sadly, it's far from over. Go listen to lectures at a University near you if you're not yet convinced our civilization is rotting from the intellectual inside.

Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2007-03-23 17:02|| 2007-03-23 17:02|| Front Page Top

#57 No, I don't quite think that is the case. There are a lot of people quietly arming to be prepared for when the word goes out that the gloves are coming off. The U.S. has never been under martial law before but I can see it coming with the muzzies and a few of their fellow travelers as the reason. At that point they become targets of opportunity for the population as a whole. That will be the end of Islam in America. The problem is that it will take something pretty ugly to bring that about but given the muzzy death wish, I'm sure they will manufacture the necessary incident.

Posted by Mac 2007-03-23 17:12|| 2007-03-23 17:12|| Front Page Top

#58 My, my. So much of what was once ridiculed as hand-wringing and defeatism has now become mainstream here. Loss of will, loss of faith, loss of patience.

This topic (Iran's nukes) has been in play for quite awhile and it seems that the estimates of when Iran would actually be a nuke threat (i.e. years, not months, as of the time when the Iranian exiles alerted the West to their program) are proving true. I guess waiting, and playing the pointless intermediate games as the timespan allows and politics demands, has ground everyone down, rubbed enough people raw, that they've substituted their frustration for the observable facts. I can sympathize, but I must disagree with the conclusion.

Certainly the current Democrap games for defunding Iraq, troop withdrawal "dates certain," etc. as well as the Tranzi attempts to undermine support for acting against Iran are disheartening and appear to indicate some unstoppable slide downwards. But Bush has not withdrawn his absolute opposition to their acquiring nukes, he's just mouthed the requisite "support" for each pointless intermediate measure as it came up... and passed into oblivion. Everyone knows the Mullahs aren't actually smart enough to stop. They've invested the fate of their "nation" in the quest and it has been obvious for several years that nothing would dissuade them from their moment of gory glory.

That Bush isn't everyone's cup of tea on every issue is understandable - he's his own man. That he won't keep his word (e.g. Iran must not be allowed to have nukes...) is something rather different. Either the US or Israel, or both together, will stop the Mullahs. Everone must play the politics, especially given the long lag between discovery and the actual emergence of the threat, but Bush will act when necessary - exactly as the Constitution allows. The Iranians have done some things "right" to succeed, but certainly not enough. In fact, this has exposed the UN's IAEA as a toothless farce. What is to come, and Gen McInerny's 1500 aimpoints are the most obvious case available, will be more than sufficient to send the Persians back to the dustbin of history.

Posted by Glavique Brown1742 2007-03-23 17:18|| 2007-03-23 17:18|| Front Page Top

#59 it will take something pretty ugly to bring that about but given the muzzy death wish, I'm sure they will manufacture the necessary incident.

You can bet the farm on it, Mac. The only difference in my case is that I get accused of advocating genocide for saying the exact same thing. Islam can no more make rivers run uphill than change the fact that one of their radical factions will someday commit such an astounding atrocity.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 17:28|| 2007-03-23 17:28|| Front Page Top

#60 "I'm finally beginning to think that the West's failure of will is a far greater threat to our civilization than Islamic terrorism."

It is. If we had the will to actually wage WAR against this menace-- starting by naming the enemy bluntly and directly-- then defeating it would be a rather straightforward exercise in the projection of force and the imposition of national will. Not trivial, not easy, and hardly a "piece of cake"; but straightforward nonetheless.

Can you imagine British or American society, as currently constituted, summoning the grim sense of purpose it would require to do to Tehran or Islamabad or Riyadh what we did to Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII? I sure can't-- yet that is what we're going to have to do someday, if we're ever to win this struggle against Islamic totalitarianism.

"This is far worse than Political Correctness or Multiculturalism."

Political Correctness and Multiculturalism are part of the central problem, not ancillary phenomena. They are parts of the "progressive" rot that has infected the Anglosphere.

"I'm damned if I can figure out what causes this sort of spontaneous moral paralysis."

See above.

Our people no longer believe in the basic goodness of our culture, because "progressives" have been telling them-- in our public schools and our universities, and in our "news" media and the entertainment industry-- that it is riven with racism, bigotry, unfairness, discrimination, inequity blah, blah, blah ad nauseum and they have been doing it now for several generations. This self-hatred is now so ingrained that most people are simply incapable of opening their goddamned eyes and observing how people around the world are voting with their feet: people don't flock to escape America, they risk life and limb to come here to live-- and have for generations.

"Worst of all is how the West's spinelessness not only emboldens our foes but lends artificial creedence to the notion that a guilt-stricken collective conscience or some such self-hating nonsense is responsible for our inaction."

I don't think the credence is artificial. We're rich. They're poor. Standard "progressive" dogma has it that this disparity is a result of either us doing something "to" them, or us not doing enough "for" them, or both. And that dogma pervades our culture at every level. The reality is, they're poor not because we're doing anything to them or not doing enough for them, but rather because of what THEY do to themselves and one another, and what THEY refuse to do for themselves or one another.

We're going to have to show a lot more spine than we have so far, if we're ever going to convince the head-bangers to leave us the fuck alone.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 17:28|| 2007-03-23 17:28|| Front Page Top

#61 As far as I can tell, most of the comments don't center on lack of American will or George Bush's will to act-they question whether Europeans have the will to act. There is a lot of context for that point; this isn't the only incident that calls their will into question. In their defense, among all the Europeans, the UK has at least some fighting spirit left.

It is not defeatism to recognize a problem in sending a philosopher in to fight with a jihadi, if the side of the philosopher is to have a chance of coming out on top.

Posted by Jules 2007-03-23 17:32|| 2007-03-23 17:32|| Front Page Top

#62 It is. If we had the will to actually wage WAR against this menace-- starting by naming the enemy bluntly and directly-- then defeating it would be a rather straightforward exercise in the projection of force and the imposition of national will.

Agreed, and I can only suppose that this is where the camels nose of Political Correctness intrudes with devastating effect. Our governments stupefying inability to name Islam as the precise enemy confounds all other mechanisms to defeat it. This is where I applaud Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch for explicitly identifying the Koran, not the hadith or surahs, but the Koran itself as the prime mover of Islamic terrorism and hostility towards all other cultures.

As an example, at another discussion board, a soldier on active duty in Iraq described how our ROE (Rules of Engagement) obliges our forces to stop returning fire if a hostile runs out of ammunition. This means that these maggots can hose down our troops with automatic fire then merely throw down their emptied weapons and surrender without being harmed. Our soldiers are required to arrest them and turn their prisoners over to Iraqi police who then release these combatants several hours later. This sort of lunatic shit really needs to stop. Fire on our troops and you will be hunted down and killed. No exceptions save by our choice alone.

summoning the grim sense of purpose it would require to do to Tehran or Islamabad or Riyadh what we did to Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII? I sure can't-- yet that is what we're going to have to do someday, if we're ever to win this struggle against Islamic totalitarianism.

Whatever less violent alternatives there were to this scenario went over the event horizon years ago. How our leadership thinks we can continue to fight this war one bullet at a time is nothing short of insane, suicidally insane.

Political Correctness and Multiculturalism are part of the central problem, not ancillary phenomena. They are parts of the "progressive" rot that has infected the Anglosphere.

Agreed. You saw my post of Diana Wests searing indictment of Multiculturalism. You know I comprehend this. I maintain that lack of will is far more deadly than its amalgam with Political Correctness and Multiculturalism. The latter two cripple, the former paralyses. A slight distinction to be sure but one that remains nonetheless.

I don't think the credence is artificial. We're rich. They're poor. Standard "progressive" dogma has it that this disparity is a result of either us doing something "to" them, or us not doing enough "for" them, or both.

I maintain that it is. The real mechanism involves how an undereducated and dumbed down America has turned upon itself by buying into the zero sum equation. The notion that in order for someone to win, another must lose. Id wager that this filthy concept is responsible for over 90% of office and corporate politics. Politics that can drain all profitability from otherwise perfectly viable companies.

Military combat is one of a very few appropriate examples of the zero sum equation. In almost all other situations it is usually possible to find a win-win solution. Our population has become so stupid, lazy and over-entitled that they no longer bother to do their homework. Once this sort of resourcefulness has been lost, the camel is swallowed and all that awaits is choking on gnats.

The reality is, they're poor not because we're doing anything to them or not doing enough for them, but rather because of what THEY do to themselves and one another, and what THEY refuse to do for themselves or one another.

No better example of this exists than Islam itself. How people can ignore this elephant in the living room and continue praising it as the Religion of Peace [spit] simply astounds me.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 18:16|| 2007-03-23 18:16|| Front Page Top

#63 Yeah, I think overall we're in violent, raucous agreement here...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 18:29|| 2007-03-23 18:29|| Front Page Top

#64 Back at'cha, Dave. We desperately need a few Churchill clones right now. I respect the old curmudgeon if only for how he had enough testicular endowment to call the Nazis and Italian fascists "guttersnipes and thugs".

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 18:57|| 2007-03-23 18:57|| Front Page Top

#65 "We desperately need a few Churchill clones right now."

I wish we had one waiting in the wings.

More likely, I fear, is that we'll bring forth a Chamberlain, a Pétain or two, a bevy of minor Quislings and then finally, after all seems lost forever, a Vlad Tepes or a Ghengis Khan.

Right after 9/11 and for a while afterward while we were beating the snot out of the Taliban and Saddam, I had hoped we'd finally learned our lesson about the futility of both appeasement and "limited warfare". Clearly we did not.

Pfeh. I'm figuring things are going to get a LOT worse before they begin to get better...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-03-23 19:22|| 2007-03-23 19:22|| Front Page Top

#66 More likely, I fear, is that we'll bring forth a Chamberlain, a Pétain or two, a bevy of minor Quislings and then finally, after all seems lost forever, a Vlad Tepes or a Ghengis Khan.

If victory will only be obtained by the likes of a Ghengis Khan or Vlad Tepes, then skip the milquetoasts and bloody well get on with it. I'm fed up with putting this entire planet's progress on hold just because a cult of ultra-violent thin-skinned whingeing fanatics require treatment that our leaders are too squeamish to provide.

I want there to be no doubt that the world our children inherit will be no longer be loomed over by the specter of Islamic fascism. Nothing less is satisfactory and I am ready to bear just about any imaginable guilt or blame to ensure it.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-03-23 23:04|| 2007-03-23 23:04|| Front Page Top

23:52 Captain America
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