Article

2007-05-29 Olde Tyme Religion

65% of Moslems (4 country sample) desire Caliphate, sharia

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Posted by mhw 2007-05-29 09:01|| || Front Page|| [8 views ] Top

#1 Hey Myrtle, the surprise meter is not budging? Do you think we should lay in a stock of ammo?

Posted by Snearong Tojo2045 2007-05-29 09:15|| 2007-05-29 09:15|| Front Page Top

#2 OK - four country sample (morning coffee must not be working yet)

Posted by mhw 2007-05-29 09:20|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-05-29 09:20|| Front Page Top

#3 How many of these have been told their entire life that the mooselimb way is better? How many are terrified of NOT desiring a Caliphate?

Either way, we do need to stock up on ammo and crush the ideology.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-05-29 09:21|| 2007-05-29 09:21|| Front Page Top

#4 I'm surprised the number is so low. Perhaps some are worried that the Caliph might not be from their tribe?

Posted by James">James 2007-05-29 09:39|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com] 2007-05-29 09:39|| Front Page Top

#5 Ask CAIR to answer the questions asked of individuals in the WORLD POLL.

Posted by 3dc 2007-05-29 09:46|| 2007-05-29 09:46|| Front Page Top

#6 depends on how it was phrased. Sharia in general, and muslim unity have apple pie and motherhood status in the muslim world. How many people in the US would answer yes to a vague appeal for world govt? How many answer yes to wanting the US to be ruled by the bible?

Yet in Indonesia, which has elections, the elected govt is putting through 'strict sharia'. I think theres a disconnect between what someone tells a pollster, and what they actually want in real political give and take.

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-05-29 10:11|| 2007-05-29 10:11|| Front Page Top

#7 I mean think how many Americans would say yes to Universal Health Care, if presented with it in a poll, without costs or consequences?

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-05-29 10:12|| 2007-05-29 10:12|| Front Page Top

#8 I mean think how many Americans would say yes to Universal Health Care, if presented with it in a poll, without costs or consequences?

Posted by liberalhawk 2007-05-29 10:12|| 2007-05-29 10:12|| Front Page Top

#9 The devil is in the details. A Caliphate is about the same theory to Muslims as the "New Jerusalem" is to some Christians.

It assumes perfection on Earth. So what's not to like? None of them remember how shitty things were when they had a Caliphate.

The poll results would be far more interesting if they did it in Turkey. And said to the Turks that Turkey would not be the seat of the new Caliphate.

They would probably respond: "Over our dead bodies."

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-05-29 10:14|| 2007-05-29 10:14|| Front Page Top

#10 Stick Turkey in there and see the numbers move...

Posted by mojo">mojo 2007-05-29 10:17|| 2007-05-29 10:17|| Front Page Top

#11 It's never gonna happen. These people can only just barely organize a tea party without somebody getting killed let alone a world wide caliphate.

Posted by treo 2007-05-29 10:19|| 2007-05-29 10:19|| Front Page Top

#12 Also, unless that the university of Maryland has had the ointerviews led by westerners speaking the local languages (0% chances) that means the interviewer is a Muslim. Telling you are not for Shariah can quickly lead to an accusation of apostasy.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-05-29 10:34|| 2007-05-29 10:34|| Front Page Top

#13 I doubt it will happen, too, but they will give it a try. And organizing blood soaked, brutal, primitive dictatorships is the one skill they do have.

Posted by Grunter 2007-05-29 10:34|| 2007-05-29 10:34|| Front Page Top

#14 LHawk probably has a point when he implies that most moslems believe strict Sharia is benevolent based on the BS they've been taught (strict Sharia meaning no music, people whipping you if you don't pray 5 times a day, etc.)

The folks who've actually experienced Sharia would have a different viewpoint, however, they typically (I think) attribute the awfulness of the Sharia they endured to the awfulness of the Sharia-imposers (e.g., Al Q in Anbar) rather than to the inherent awfulness of Sharia itself.

Posted by mhw 2007-05-29 10:38|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-05-29 10:38|| Front Page Top

#15 Most of us have known for a long time that we have a problem. This poll and other data that will surface will help pull the disbelievers out of the fog and into the daylight of truth. Then there are the never ending murders and bombings from within muslim countries and the downward spiral of muslim relationships with non-muslims worldwide. I see no sign of improvement, just a face first plunge into full warfare.
To quote Bush in a finer moment, "Bring it on."

Posted by wxjames 2007-05-29 11:08|| 2007-05-29 11:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Let's hope we wake the hell up before they start flying airplanes into skyscrapers or something like that...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2007-05-29 11:13|| 2007-05-29 11:13|| Front Page Top

#17 I don't think you can compare Muslims under Sharia Law to anything in the Western world. There is little to no assimilation in any country where Muslims have settled. They have not really settled. They take their culture and try to impose it on the larger culture wherever they are. This is unacceptable. They try to force their will on countries by terrorism and aggression. They try to gradually take over the countries where they are insidiously and assiduously from within. Islam is a danger to Western culture. It is not the religion of peace. Muslims know this. They scream discrimination, racism, islamophobia whenever anything comes up. What is to be done about this is another thing. How do you preserve your culture and not shut down freedoms?

Posted by JohnQC 2007-05-29 11:56|| 2007-05-29 11:56|| Front Page Top

#18 #17
How ? We have to call them out. Expose them as a subversive political party, not a false religion. We have to outlaw The Islamic Party in western societies. They either forsake Islam or we get rid ot them. The method of how to get rid of them rests primarily with them. We dare not leave them here. The analogy of a mestasizing cancerous growth is very apropos. You either extract the cancerous cells or kill them in place. Killing them in place usually does great damage to the host, killing adjacent healthy cells and generally weakening the host for a considerable period of time.

Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-05-29 12:20|| 2007-05-29 12:20|| Front Page Top

#19 Moroccans, Egyptians, Pakistanis, and Indonesians eh?

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-05-29 13:44|| 2007-05-29 13:44|| Front Page Top

#20 How many of these have been told their entire life that the mooselimb way is better?

Enough to make huge numbers of them extremely dangerous to Western society.

I think theres a disconnect between what someone tells a pollster, and what they actually want in real political give and take.

So, LH, should all of us just ignore this poll and go back to sleep? While Muslims may enjoy the "notion" more than the reality, it in no way alters their drive towards this hideous goal. Even if the numbers are slightly off, they still indicate a preponderance of supporters for global theocratic dictatorship. Let me know if that's something you're willing to countenance. The level of "disconnect" within Islam makes it a form of mass cognitive dissonance. You speak of Islam as if it actually possessed some sort of redeeming features. Feel free to name them.

A Caliphate is about the same theory to Muslims as the "New Jerusalem" is to some Christians.

Perhaps so, but to Christianity's immense credit a "New Jerusalem" probably wouldn't involve chopping off hands, heads and genitals. There is a difference.

It's never gonna happen.

That didn't stop the Nazis from trying the same thing and killing millions in the process. Low odds mean nothing to fanatics, just look at the Afghani Taliban. This is not something about which we can afford to sit around and wait until things get worse. They already are worse and will only become far more tragic for all involved, Muslims included, if immediate action is not taken.

I doubt it will happen, too, but they will give it a try.

Give the man a Kewpie doll! Damn right they will try, its in their scripture and not supporting the concept is an instant death sentence. We've already seen how this affects the actions of so-called "moderate" Muslims and that whole experiment has been a smashing success, now hasn't it?

The folks who've actually experienced Sharia would have a different viewpoint

If that's so, why aren't the people of Afghanistan offing the Taliban themselves? After their taste of austere Puritanical Islam you'd think that a return to even moderate freedom would be an unassailable goal. It isn't, and far too many Muslims support the concept of theocracy to trust them at all.

They try to gradually take over the countries where they are insidiously and assiduously from within.

I don't know if I've ever seen a sentence where "insidiously" and "assiduously" both appeared, properly spelled and in correct context at that. Extra points.

We have to outlaw The Islamic Party in western societies. They either forsake Islam or we get rid ot them.

Not to nitpick, WE, but given taqiyya, how can we tell they've foresaken Islam? The simple answer is that we can't and never will be able to. This is why I've begun to advocate a mass reconsolidation of all Muslims back in their respective countries of origin. As Fjordman notes, these Islamic hellholes are undergoing unprecedented population growth that they are utterly incapable of sustaining in terms of agriculture, economic opportunity or infrastructure. Their only solution has been to export these savages to the West in order that they may subvert our cultures.

ENOUGH ALREADY! We must reverse this trend through mass deportation. Internment really is not an option. The cost alone would be prohibitive and one need only look at the Lebanese "refugee camps" for an illustration of what to expect. Muslims must be made to realize that theirs is a failed ~~religion~~ ideology and social system. There is no other way than to make them experience the logical extension of their own culture's practices and beliefs. Once they undergo the misery and repression that their beloved shari'a law imposes upon them, perhaps then they will begin to reassess their beverage of choice.

Plain and simple; Islam seeks to establish a Fourth Reich. End of story.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-05-29 13:52|| 2007-05-29 13:52|| Front Page Top

#21 This is the subject of a post below: "Where do we go from here?" A practical call for Western defense against Islam

Posted by SR-71 2007-05-29 13:57|| 2007-05-29 13:57|| Front Page Top

#22 SR-71: When I click on the link, it can't be found.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-05-29 14:00|| 2007-05-29 14:00|| Front Page Top

#23 JohnQC, here's the URL:

http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=189515&D=2007-05-29&HC=4

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-05-29 14:16|| 2007-05-29 14:16|| Front Page Top

#24 Well stated, Zenster. Our problem remains, however that half of America thinks Bush flew the jets into the towers, and many of the rest are not willing to forgo their stock market gains for mere survival.
I watched Tora, Tora, Tora yesterday, and couldn't get over how similar the 'negotiations' prior to Pearl Harbor are to today's bullshit sessions with and about Iran. I don't think Iran has the balls to attack us directly, but using the clock while they advance their agenda and using their proxies to kill American soldiers has passed critical mass in my opinion.
Carpet bomb today!

Posted by wxjames 2007-05-29 14:26|| 2007-05-29 14:26|| Front Page Top

#25 Yes, I think LH's analogy is somewhat off.

In the US, this sort of social change is done through the legislative process. So polls are nice, but what matters is election (and primary) day.

Radical muslims have a freelance option that's well-funded, high-visibility, and not too difficult to join. So these figures translate into a recruiting pool and an enabling pool.

Posted by JSU 2007-05-29 14:50|| 2007-05-29 14:50|| Front Page Top

#26 Western societies are averse to violence. It upsets their comfort, their psyche and their standard of living. We see that aversion writ large with our involvement in Iraq...half measures, treading lightly, trying to make them like us, etc. Zensters ideas are fine but are just not going to happen...until a major attack or series of near-major attacks happens in the west. People do not feel threatened on a visceral level and so will not take the very distateful actions needed to address the problem. Once they truly do feel threatened, and it will be in response to tens of thousands of their countrymen killed, then they will be hardened. And it is a hardening. It is a stripping away of what we regard as the cornerstones of liberal western society...compassion, generosity, kindness, etc. It is this part of our humanity that we will lose, at least for a time, in our effort to wipe islam from our midst.

Posted by remoteman 2007-05-29 15:59|| 2007-05-29 15:59|| Front Page Top

#27 Hardening. Some of the WW II vets I know hardened themselves against the Japenese, and they still have no use for any of them.

OTOH, we think the polls are skewed against Bush and the GWOT, right? Ya think the subject poll is skew-free?

The last time I participated in a poll, there were a number of times I told the pollster, "None of the above", but ya gotta pick from the list!

Yeah, this poll is indicative of a big, big problem, but count me among those who think it's only hundreds of thousands, not hundreds of millions. A subtle difference, to be sure.

Posted by Bobby 2007-05-29 16:07|| 2007-05-29 16:07|| Front Page Top

#28 Zensters ideas are fine but are just not going to happen...until a major attack or series of near-major attacks happens in the west.

While I concede the probability of your observation, remoteman, the issue then remains how to militate the people before such attacks happen. It is up to all patriotic Americans to begin educating the general public as to how important it is to pre-empt such atrocities. Not just by fighting Islamic theocracy abroad but also by emplacing both a halt to new immigration by Muslims and "reverse immigration" as well. It can be done and we need to find a way of doing it. The tremendous loss of life and profound economic damage that a few terrorist nuclear attacks would do to our country is simply not acceptable.

As Serge Trifkovic notes in his speech: Winning the War on Terror: A Realist Strategy
(Scroll down to the third article.)

The elite class has every intention of continuing to fight the war on terrorism without naming the enemy, without revealing his beliefs, without unmasking his intentions, without offending his accomplices, without expelling his fifth columnists, and without ever daring to win. Their crime can and must be stopped. The founders of the United States overthrew the colonial government for offenses far lighter than those of which the traitor class is guilty.
[emphasis added]

As many others here have noted, it is our elite class of politicians in office who often betray us in the very worst fashion. All the while knowing better, for personal short-term gain they nonetheless mislead Americans about the threat which confronts them. This is simple treason and should be dealt with as such. Democrat voters, deluded as they may be, are far less culpable than our government's tacit facilitators of Islam's filthy agenda.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-05-29 16:21|| 2007-05-29 16:21|| Front Page Top

#29 And the other 35% aren't yet informed of their jihad obligations. The purpose of a Muslim's wretched life is to create the "rule of allah" on earth. 100% of target peoples need to understand that we need to stop those barbarians, starting with mass deportations.

Posted by sneaze 2007-05-29 16:29|| 2007-05-29 16:29|| Front Page Top

#30 Zenster, we can talk until we are blue in the face about the threat. Great orators of the past like Churchill attempted this very feat and failed. I agree that the alternative is unacceptable and I will continue to voice the obvious steps to prevention that you list. But we are all whisteling in the dark if we think it is going to make a difference. Bad stuff at some point is going to happen. Hopefully it will be low level events that wake the populace up, but I am not very hopeful of that given that there are significant powers within our societies that want to see us fail (an utterly suicidal wish as we all know since they are the ones that will be killed first).

Posted by remoteman 2007-05-29 19:05|| 2007-05-29 19:05|| Front Page Top

23:28 Once i waz spineless
23:20 Zenster
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22:55 USN, ret.
22:51 Zenster
22:50 Eric Jablow
22:47 Captain America
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22:04 twobyfour
22:03 Zenster
22:00 Zenster
21:58 3dc
21:46 Barbara Skolaut
21:45 Zenster
21:43 Barbara Skolaut
21:41 Barbara Skolaut
21:41 gromgoru
21:34 Barbara Skolaut
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21:29 Zenster
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21:21 Ex Astronaut Lisa Nowak