Article

2007-08-25 Afghanistan

Outcry as 'friendly fire' kills three UK soldiers

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Posted by lotp 2007-08-25 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 No fool-proof means exist to prevent the misidentification of units in a highly complex and stressful battle environment

Duh. I hope this isn't an excuse for not picking up the pace on IFF.

Posted by gorb 2007-08-25 01:34|| 2007-08-25 01:34|| Front Page Top

#2 Hokay, how is it that Muslim terrorist atrocities against fellow Muslims are never termed "friendly fire"? That's what it is, or are all of us foolish Westerners so gulled into believing that substantial rifts exist in how Islam wants us all DEAD?

I thought so. Well, when does the MSM start mentioning how Islamic "friendly fire" kills far more Muslims that the West has ever had the courage to do?

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-25 03:30|| 2007-08-25 03:30|| Front Page Top

#3 CORRECTION: Well, when does the MSM start mentioning how Islamic "friendly fire" kills far more Muslims THAN the West has ever had the courage to do?

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-25 03:34|| 2007-08-25 03:34|| Front Page Top

#4 Thank you for your sacrifice 'Vikings.' I salute you.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-25 07:25|| 2007-08-25 07:25|| Front Page Top

#5 You just knew the Brit lefties and chickenshiite Tories were going to engage in a Paleo-style corpse swarm over this -- if these troops had come home alive they'd have spit on them.

Posted by regular joe 2007-08-25 09:10|| 2007-08-25 09:10|| Front Page Top

#6 There's a bigger issue here. Britain's model for command and control across the services is a bit different from ours, an older dispersed model. Plus their investment in training and equipment far lags the quality of their (older) troops.

They need an upgrade, but which one? The Euroforce or US-compatible? And how much do we make available to / design alongside them, given that some UK government (Brown's, possibly) will opt for the full Euro alignment?

I do know that we've offered them tech to solve the ID issue. But there has to be a political will to move in the US direction plus an agreement within the upper UK military ranks. And, they have to find the money for it, which is harder and harder now that the EU 'treaty' binds them to a huge welfare burden for an essentially unrestricted immigrant flow.

Posted by lotp 2007-08-25 09:33|| 2007-08-25 09:33|| Front Page Top

#7 The US has been bombing friendlies since WW2. There's a tiny bit of truth in this old joke: When the Germans start bombing, the British take cover. When the Brits start bombing, the Germans take cover. When the Americans start bombing, everyone takes cover.
In the case of strategic bombing in WW2, however, the situation was completely reversed.

Posted by Spike Ebbairt4868 2007-08-25 12:13|| 2007-08-25 12:13|| Front Page Top

#8 One of my dad's war stories was one that said a whole squad of infantry soldiers was wiped out in a "tactical" airstrike during the push north out of Luxembourg toward Bastogne. I checked it out - it was true. It wasn't the only incident, either. Many of our soldiers during WWII would praise and curse the "airdales" in the same breath.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2007-08-25 13:53|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2007-08-25 13:53|| Front Page Top

#9 "The US has been bombing friendlies since WW2"

Lemme give you a hint: everybody's been bombing friendlies since WW2.

Friendly fire is a much bigger problem than is generally admitted. The problem here is that the Brits are more than a decade behind the Americans in blue force tracking. Other counties are even worse off.

That said, the 9th Air Force was proudly known as "the American Luftwaffe" for its impartial strafing of both sides during WW2.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2007-08-25 15:33|| 2007-08-25 15:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Lemme give you a hint: everybody's been bombing friendlies since WW2. The problem here is that the Brits are more than a decade behind the Americans in blue force tracking.

And how many times has it happened that the Brits bombed their own? Supposedly they are the ones far behind with the technology, but I've heard only about incidents involving American pilots. Plain dumb luck?

Posted by Spike Ebbairt4868 2007-08-25 17:49|| 2007-08-25 17:49|| Front Page Top

#11 think "overwhelming majority of American air sorties"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-08-25 17:56|| 2007-08-25 17:56|| Front Page Top

#12 The graphs I've seen on "friendly fire" or "fratricide" incidents per sortie dive down at a **45 degree decline since WWII.

[** ok fact check me! ;-)]

btw I can't cite it right now but all forward air controllers and their observers [Coalition IOW] are US TRAINED for Iraq ans A-stan.

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2007-08-25 18:53|| 2007-08-25 18:53|| Front Page Top

#13 And how many times has it happened that the Brits bombed their own?

How many close air support missions have they flown?

Read the article: it is primarily US planes being called in when the Brits need support in Afghan

Posted by lotp 2007-08-25 19:07|| 2007-08-25 19:07|| Front Page Top

#14 Friendly fire? This some damn yankee trickery?

Posted by TJ Jackson (ret. deceased) 2007-08-25 19:10|| 2007-08-25 19:10|| Front Page Top

#15 The British have 6 harriers and I think 6-8 Apaches in Afghanistan.

Posted by ed 2007-08-25 19:13|| 2007-08-25 19:13|| Front Page Top

#16 Agreed, Ed. But from what I've read, the bulk of the CAS missions have been flown by USAF.

Posted by lotp 2007-08-25 19:16|| 2007-08-25 19:16|| Front Page Top

#17 No doubt. 6 Harriers probably fly no more than every other day. CENTAF Air Power Summaries show 40-50 CAS missions a day, so the Harriers contribute around 5% of aircraft and less in flight hours and bombs dropped due to Harrier load limits vs A-10s, F-15s or B-1.

Will the investigation show the FAC called his own coordinate to be bombed (happened before) or a bomb malfunction? The other possibility of the pilot entering wrong coordinates and verifying it seems small since in that case the bomb is more likely to wildly off.

Posted by ed 2007-08-25 20:01|| 2007-08-25 20:01|| Front Page Top

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