Article

2007-12-04 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

Iran froze nuclear programme four years ago, US intelligence report says

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Posted by john frum 2007-12-04 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 If true...

North Korea is looking better. Iraq is looking better, and now Iran may even be in a far better situation than we suspected. Rove couldn't have planned things better if he'd tried.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-04 00:07|| 2007-12-04 00:07|| Front Page Top

#2 The findings, published yesterday, contradict an assessment by US intelligence officials two years ago that Tehran was seeking nuclear weapons and appeared to undercut President Bush's repeated and ominous warnings about a nuclear-armed Iran.

Finds by the same agencies that made the earlier assessment. So it's not a 'contradiction'.

Posted by Pappy 2007-12-04 00:25|| 2007-12-04 00:25|| Front Page Top

#3 wow, that's alot of f'n hype over nothing....

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2007-12-04 00:44|| 2007-12-04 00:44|| Front Page Top

#4 AP's unnamed sources raise their ugly unnamed heads again! El-Baradei may lobby for another Noble Prize.

Posted by Phinater Thraviger 2007-12-04 01:12|| 2007-12-04 01:12|| Front Page Top

#5 It just means Iran has good disinfo ops, and changed security rating of information, so any nuclear weapons info is now classified top secret, even for domestic consumption.

The ~~intelligence~~ stupidity agencies should be held accountable when a mushroom cloud of Iranian origin pops somewhere in ME.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2007-12-04 01:21|| 2007-12-04 01:21|| Front Page Top

#6 Notice I said when, not if.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2007-12-04 01:25|| 2007-12-04 01:25|| Front Page Top

#7 KOMMERSANT > RUSSIA DOES WHAT IT HAS TO WITH IRAN. Author recognizes that once Iran succcessfully learns to operate a full nuclear cycle, it will have the ability to make nuke weapons, thus Revolutionary/Radical Islamism will become all but absolut invulnerable to any Western efforts [includ Russ?]to stop it. Are dealing wid dedic Xtremists and ideologues, etc. whom believe in theirs = Islam's/Islamism's final victory. FAILURE TO STOP = DIVERT IRAN'S ATTENTION OR NUKE AMBITIONS NOW, espec as per consequent nuke weapons dev, may LEAD TO BIGGER, POSSIBLY NUCLEAR OR WORSE WAR LATER, PERHAPS IN A DECADE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 04:18|| 2007-12-04 04:18|| Front Page Top

#8 I think this is good news boyz, once Iran finally gets the bomb the rest of the ME countries will follow. That means no more monoply for Israel... it will have no choice but to implement all the U.N resolutions against it. I believe under the M.A.D theory there will finally be peace in the M.E. Everyone will be too afraid to piss the other side off.

Posted by Leah Ashley 2007-12-04 04:44|| 2007-12-04 04:44|| Front Page Top

#9 Er...Ashley...Iran's president has stated on several occasions that he intends to use his nukes to wipe out Israel, and he doesn't care how many of his people die as a result. Maybe you missed that one.

Posted by gromky 2007-12-04 05:07|| 2007-12-04 05:07|| Front Page Top

#10 Er...Ashley...Iran's president has stated on several occasions that he intends to use his nukes to wipe out Israel, and he doesn't care how many of his people die as a result. Maybe you missed that one.

Posted by gromky 2007-12-04 05:07|| 2007-12-04 05:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Methinks that wid PUTIN = RUSSIA being ornery, Dubya = USA wants to give the Russ something to worry about, i.e. another major potens enemy not just the USA???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 05:34|| 2007-12-04 05:34|| Front Page Top

#12 Am I the only one who thinks that Iran's sole motivation for "halting" its nuclear weapons program is to give its uranium enrichment program and missile development program time to catch up? We still need to take out those centrifuges.

Posted by Darrell 2007-12-04 07:13|| 2007-12-04 07:13|| Front Page Top

#13 Leah, M.A.D. falls apart when even just one side embraces suicide and martyrdom over life. Why don't you Google "suicide bomber" and see how many of the last dozen or so were from middle eastern countries.

Posted by Darrell 2007-12-04 07:18|| 2007-12-04 07:18|| Front Page Top

#14 Something about this stinks. I'd love to know what their sources are, I thought we didn't have much humint on Iran. More ass-covering by the CIA?

Posted by Spot">Spot 2007-12-04 08:00|| 2007-12-04 08:00|| Front Page Top

#15 Maybe now it'll penetrate Olmert's thick skull that Israel is on it's own here.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-12-04 08:33|| 2007-12-04 08:33|| Front Page Top

#16 Leah Ashley, you ignorant slut, Israel is a democracy and the rest of the Middle East is made up of theocracies and dictatorships - with the possible exception of Iraq - many of whom we prop up as "allies" and which you pay for every time you fill a tank of gas. Allowing our enemies or or Arab "allies" to have nuclear weapons is insane. If Persia becomes a democracy it will be a different story; one in which they will not need nuclear weapons. So instead of peddling your sickening, anti-semitic moral equivalence why don't you stage a protest against an actual dictatorship, the actual enemies of free speech and the actual enemies of women. If you care about any of those things or if you are not too afraid to confront men who would rape, enslave or behead you at the behest of their evil moon good. Here you are dealing with gentlemen and this is as polite a lecture as you deserve.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-12-04 08:47|| 2007-12-04 08:47|| Front Page Top

#17 The same people who screamed that the intel that Bush used [as well as other countries intel services and good o'Bill] was cooked are now going to argue that the very same authors who put this out are now absolutely credible and believable. These are estimates, guesses, because there is no certainty. The real question is what is the best rational choice in order to avoid the worst possible outcome. Of course the usual suspects consider America simply the worst possible outcome and therefore should reap the ostracism they deserve [which can be identified by the amount of non-ostracism given to them by MSM].

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-12-04 09:26|| 2007-12-04 09:26|| Front Page Top

#18 You can forget about Mutually Assured Destruction - Assured Mutual Destruction is far more likely, although in the case of their "civilisation", as was convincingly argued by Khomeni et al in his pre-emptive nuclear attack fatwa, who would notice?

Anyway, we only one side destroyed here, so I think Mutually Assured Holy Destruction of Iran
(M.A.H.D.I) is the best policy

God Bless Amerika!

Posted by Admiral Allan Ackbar 2007-12-04 10:02|| 2007-12-04 10:02|| Front Page Top

#19 What's the latest on that blown-up Syrian nuke weapon assembly facility/secret nuclear reactor plant or whatever the heck it was?

As long as Iran refuses to allow international inspectors access to all nuclear-related facilities the civilized world has no alternative but to increase pressure on the Ayatollahs.

Frankly, our intelligence community has dropped the ball on too many occasions for us to lower our guard.

Posted by mrp 2007-12-04 10:15|| 2007-12-04 10:15|| Front Page Top

#20 Oops - spot the mistake it was famous "Moderate" Rafsanjani who said that dropping a bomb on the Islamic world wouldnt make much difference.

Posted by Admiral Allan Ackbar 2007-12-04 10:22|| 2007-12-04 10:22|| Front Page Top

#21 ...and anyways, Leah, bearing in mind that the nation is dominated by a suicide cult, it would be more akin to mass euthanasia.

and I want to kno exacly WHO are YOU to deny such liberal progressive ideas to our self-harming Iranian comrades, Leah, you pro-lifer Christian Fundamentalist Right-Wing-Nut?

Posted by Admiral Allan Ackbar 2007-12-04 10:28|| 2007-12-04 10:28|| Front Page Top

#22 Sadly the middle easts version of MAD looks more like Mad Max.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-04 11:27|| 2007-12-04 11:27|| Front Page Top

#23 Leah Ashley, you ignorant slut

Excalibur, whatever you think of Leah Ashley's arguments, this was inappropriate and beneath your station, IMHO.

Posted by Free Radical">Free Radical 2007-12-04 11:45|| 2007-12-04 11:45|| Front Page Top

#24 Hello, Rantburgers.

I come here because I hope some of you can explain to me who the hell are those "intelligence" guys who fabricated this so-called "report" ?

What is their aim ??

Why are they supporting Iran, and spreading all those lies and disinformations ??

I think someone needs to fire some intelligence analysts. Obviously, the bad analysts who weren't able to prevent 9-11 are still at work inside the US intel community, and this is very worrying.

I am sure your great country will do the right thing, and don't believe those stupid intel falsifications, obviously made up by some crypto-démocrats...

By the way, Bush just said that this report changes nothing for him, and that Iran is a very dangerous threat to the world.

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 11:47|| 2007-12-04 11:47|| Front Page Top

#25 On the other hand, Leah Ashley, you obvious anti-semite, just doesn't get the laughs.

Posted by wxjames 2007-12-04 11:53|| 2007-12-04 11:53|| Front Page Top

#26 It's sad, but I think that now Israel will have to act alone against Iran, as John Bolton, one of your great men, said some months ago.

I hope that Ehud Barak will be able to convince Olmert that Israel has to attack Iranian nuclear facilities.

And the sooner, the better.

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 12:00|| 2007-12-04 12:00|| Front Page Top

#27 I feel like a mushroom because they keep me in the dark and feed me cow manure. It is not a very secure feeling.

I'd say it's time for George Bush to amble on back to Crawford but I can't believe that whoever takes his place will be any better.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-12-04 12:03|| 2007-12-04 12:03|| Front Page Top

#28 Excalibur, whatever you think of Leah Ashley's arguments, this was inappropriate and beneath your station, IMHO.

It's a reference to an old Saturday Night Live skit called Weekend Update that satirized 60 Minutes Point-Counterpoint feature.

Posted by Pappy 2007-12-04 12:15|| 2007-12-04 12:15|| Front Page Top

#29 Lot of crap going on in the world and if I want to read about trash talking I'll look up the transcript for 'I love New York'. Given enough of a timeline enough ME countries will have 'the bomb' and from the land of glorified suicide bombers MAD does not work - When fighting the Saxons Charles made the remark that when fighting barbarians the obvious advantage they have over a civilized nation is that they have less to lose.

There is the alleged bomb factory, NKor changing its tone, Annapolis which had a UN resolution made by then withdrawn by the USA, now this reversal on the intelligence situation yet USSR/USA agree on sanctions?! It makes me wonder what is going on behind the curtains - and that this is not some crap that delays what seems to me IMHO to be an inevitable war for 5-10 years when everyone has nukes and the casualties will be massive. Even if peace is brokered with ME countries they have spent so much time and energy on hate that there are so many loose cannons even a well intentioned ME country could not control the will of the radicals/mob.

So, like Leroidavid and EU6305 say, WTF really is going on?

Posted by swksvolFF 2007-12-04 12:25|| 2007-12-04 12:25|| Front Page Top

#30 Apologies: ~~USSR~~ Russia - it just seems like the olden days

Posted by swksvolFF 2007-12-04 12:28|| 2007-12-04 12:28|| Front Page Top

#31 I think Excalibur replied to Leah Ashley in an admirable manner. As he pointed out at the end of his rant:

"Here you are dealing with gentlemen and this is as polite a lecture as you deserve."

But, hey, keep posting Leah. Rantburgers are always ready for an exchange with some twisted, old, shriveled moon bat like you. Maybe you could explain to us how MAD works when you are dealing with people who really are insane.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-12-04 12:30|| 2007-12-04 12:30|| Front Page Top

#32 Damn it!!! The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. They can call this intelligence or stupidity or whatever it is "classified" all they want. But I have a right to know if some mad man out there is a threat to my country and I damn well want the government people who are paid from my tax dollars to do something about it.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if Achmadinejad has a nuke or not. If he talks like he does and there are signs that he is trying to get one then bomb him and bomb his pathetic little country until it is nothing but dust, radioactive or otherwise. For one thing, it'll teach other pathetic little countries not to screw with us. For another, it is, unfortunately, the only way for us to know for sure that he is not a threat.

It's like when the cops stop a guy and tell him to put his hands in the air and instead he reaches inside his jacket. The cops don't know what he has in his jacket but they have to assume it's a gun and so they have no choice but to shoot the guy. They don't want to shoot him but they have no choice unless they are willing to risk getting shot themselves. It's the same damn thing with Iran so bomb them now before it's too late!!!

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-12-04 12:53|| 2007-12-04 12:53|| Front Page Top

#33 I agree with you, "Ebbang Uluque6305".

I think this report is very worrying, not for what it says, but for what it is trying to hide.

We shall not forget that Iran has massive terrorist training camps, in which more than 40,000 Islamic terrorists are been trained to kill Westerners.

They will not hesitate to detonate an atomic bomb in an European or American city.

So, Mr Bush, bomb Iran nuclear facilities first !

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 13:08|| 2007-12-04 13:08|| Front Page Top

#34 Free Radical, I assume you are not an American or else not a follower of old Saturday Night Live. The Ignorant slut reference is an old joke and not as bad as the insult it would appear at first.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-04 13:19|| 2007-12-04 13:19|| Front Page Top

#35 I have no reason whatsoever to put any faith into the NIE's "best educated guess". On this issue I will follow/trust the lead of Israel because it's more likely than not that they will be the first target of a nuke developed by the iranian muslims.
Did the NIE report say anything interesting about the hit Israel put on Syria this past September? No? Hmmm...

BTW: Excal's statement to Leah being an ignorant slut was not lost on me. I understood immmediately the reference to the old SNL show. That said, I'm thinking you have to be ABOVE a certain age to pick up on the reference to the old SNL "Point-Counterpoint" segment : "Jane, you ignorant slut!" Furthermore, given the tripe Leah was spewing in her comment, Excal was being a polite gentleman above and beyond the call.

Posted by Mark Z">Mark Z 2007-12-04 13:42|| 2007-12-04 13:42|| Front Page Top

#36 Miss Ashley isn't worth wasting bytes on -- she is a third class troll with delusions of grandeur.

Given the Iranian connection via North Korea to China, why should Iran work to develop the weapon part of its nuclear program when it can be bought off the rack from the original developer. After all, isn't that what Libya did not so long ago? All Iran really needs do is get enough uranium or whatever to assemble the bloody things.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2007-12-04 14:23|| 2007-12-04 14:23|| Front Page Top

#37 Free Radical is a true member of Generation X, hence missed the early SNL shows. He has no doubtbeen entirely too busy since he achieved awareness in absorbing the cultural details of his own time and place.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2007-12-04 14:25|| 2007-12-04 14:25|| Front Page Top

#38 Tw,

In theory its easy to build a nuke with off the shelf equipment and fissionable material. In practice its not so easy.

And in Iran's case the bomb making project gets in the way of other things they want to do. There are only so many competent people and if they are assigned to try to make aircraft they can't be working on bombs.

Posted by mhw 2007-12-04 14:42|| 2007-12-04 14:42|| Front Page Top

#39 Ignorant slut is indeed an old SNL routine. I'm old enough to remember watching it live.

Leah Ashley may be a delusional moonbat. She may be a troll. If the latter, she succeeded. YHBT and all that.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-12-04 14:51|| 2007-12-04 14:51|| Front Page Top

#40 Something is going on. Since when have all 16 of the fractured US intelligence agencies been on the same page? Only when ordered is my guess.

Do they want my estimate, too? I dunnit from my armchair. I'll bet they haven't done anything more than a few experiments here and there, 75% of which we have no clue about. They are getting all their duckies in line for a sprint to the finish, the beginning of which will be masked from the public view so they'll have a headstart. They are stirring up the nationalism they'll need to absorb some serious casualties. They are setting up the military infrastructure they will need to have in place if they manage to succeed in generating atomic bombs such as the nuclear capable ICBMs. Nutjob has stated that all the countries around him are wimps and that his country would be happy to sustain something like 75% casualties to do the world the "favor" of wiping Israel off the map. They are putting into place (or think they are at least) a military capable of defending against attacks that is currently unnecessary. They suddenly need nuclear power when oil and gas (which I hear they have a lot of) are available at a lot lower cost. They concealed their nuclear weapons program from the world until they were outed by one of their own (who probably has more brains than all the rest put together). They will not let go of the part of the program that involves refining their own fuel. They frustrate any serious inspections and ignore all economic sanctions that are supposed to diminish the possibility of a military use of this technology, even if makes better sense to not do this. They are also bunkering all the stuff they care about. They have also declined offers of technology that would not produce fissile material amongst a ton of other benefits.

Hitler did this before WWII and it worked pretty good.

Now I'm supposed to believe that they were concealing and bunkering nuclear program that was designed for civilian use only? Uh huh. All the arrows point in basically the same direction: The bomb.

Or maybe Nutjob is right and the US doesn't have the oomph to attack them and is looking to save face. Which I doubt.

Posted by gorb 2007-12-04 15:39|| 2007-12-04 15:39|| Front Page Top

#41 No doubt in my mind that the same geniuses in the CIA who have been undermining Bush now want to prevent him from taking decisive action on the Iranian nuke program by issuing this ridiculous report. After the Iranians explode their first nuke it will be found to be in error, like most CIA reports. We could save money by replacing the CIA with an Ouija board.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-12-04 16:13|| 2007-12-04 16:13|| Front Page Top

#42 In theory its easy to build a nuke with off the shelf equipment and fissionable material. In practice its not so easy.

I disagree. Any modern nation, Iran included, can develop an uranium gun bomb in a few months. You can work up the design and manufacturing capability using unenriched uranium mockups.

The US didn't even bother to test the Hiroshima design, because it was obvious from dummy testing that it would work.

Maybe the reason the Iranians stopped work (if indeed they did) was because they were done. Now all they need is the U235.

Bush is right. And the US 'intelligence' agencies are fools. Keep your eye on the Israelis, they have the true skinny.

Posted by KBK 2007-12-04 17:50|| 2007-12-04 17:50|| Front Page Top

#43 Are we to conclude that 16 'intelligence' agencys/groups, (which includes State's BTW), ALL agreed on the un-named source info and it was a 16-0 consensus? This really sounds closer to trying to remove a problem from the Annapolis scam. Nothing to see here, move along....

Posted by Phinater Thraviger 2007-12-04 17:54|| 2007-12-04 17:54|| Front Page Top

#44

That's the Israeli view.

Posted by KBK 2007-12-04 17:57|| 2007-12-04 17:57|| Front Page Top

#45 That the NIE changed 180 degrees in two years is no surprise - we didn't really know then and we don't really know now. Maybe the report is true now, maybe then, maybe neither, maybe both. What is clear is that we really don't know.
What IS a surprise is the release of the report. And the release seems to have been sanctioned by pretty much the entire administration. There has to be a reason for that - a pretty big reason, since these guys virtually never agree on anything, and also can never keep their mouths shut. What is it? Combined this story with the pullback on the rhetoric from the generals in Iraq about Iranian arms and operatives in Iraq. Either Iran really has backed off or we have a reason for letting everyone believe they have. Did we make a deal with them?
Then add the third page to the story - the mysterious Israeli bombing in Syria. No big stink from Syria, nor Iran, nor KSA, nor even China. Even Turkey was subdued about the overflight. Strange.
My opinion is that all of this is related and none of it is what it seems to be. What could possibly get so many disparate parties in general agreement - and to keep all their mouths shut? Super strange.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-12-04 18:46|| 2007-12-04 18:46|| Front Page Top

#46 I just read the NIE Report.

Here are 2 quotes:

"We assess with high confidence that Iran has the scientific, technical, and industrial capacity eventually to produce nuclear weapons if it decides to do so."

"We judge with moderate confidence that the earliest possible date Iran would be technically capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium (HEU) for a weapon is late 2009."

So, contrary to what the MSM say, this report assesses the fact that Iran is a very important threat.

And that, in 2009, Iran will be able to perpetrate a new genocide of 6 million Jews.

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 20:03|| 2007-12-04 20:03|| Front Page Top

#47 Here is the link to the NIE Report "Iran's Nuclear Intentions and Capabilities":

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 20:04|| 2007-12-04 20:04|| Front Page Top

#48 "The National Intelligence Council, which produced the NIE, is chaired by Thomas Fingar, a State Department intelligence analyst with no known overseas experience who briefly headed the State Departments Bureau of Intelligence and Research."

Check out the rest on newsmax article: http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/iran_nukes/2007/12/04/54359.html

Posted by Phinater Thraviger 2007-12-04 20:19|| 2007-12-04 20:19|| Front Page Top

#49 WND [paraph]> IRAN IS LAUGHING AT US INTELLIGENCE; + HARRETZ > OLMERT: [NEW US NIE] NUKE REPORT SHOWS NEED FOR TIGHTER SANCTIONS AGZ IRAN + MI: IRAN WILL CROSS NUCLEAR THRESHOLD NY 2009. Very probably by 2009, definitely come 2010. also from HAARETZ > US, ISRAEL SHOULD BEGIN PLANNING TO STRIKE IRAN TARGETS.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 20:20|| 2007-12-04 20:20|| Front Page Top

#50 HAARETZ Poster > real danger from new NIE report + Iran nukes IS TO THE USA, NOTSOMUCH ISRAEL.
Other Haar Poster > THE NEOCONS ARE FINISHED. Lest we fergit, 9-11/WOT ANTI-US AGENDISTS > among other premises and agendums, WOT > FULL STALINISM Vs LIMITED STALINISM, and related.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 20:24|| 2007-12-04 20:24|| Front Page Top

#51 I fully admit to being American, Gen X, and culturally unaware even of my own ages cultural touchstones... I guess things like that come across differently in print if you aren't in on the joke. Thank you for sticking up for me TW. As always, you are kind to us poor nerds!

Posted by Free Radical">Free Radical 2007-12-04 20:33|| 2007-12-04 20:33|| Front Page Top

#52 You can download here an interesting report about the Iranian threat:

"Speaking about the Unspeakable: U.S.-Israeli Dialogue on Iran's Nuclear Program"

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC04.php?CID=284

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 20:46|| 2007-12-04 20:46|| Front Page Top

#53 REDDIT/TOPIX > Bush refuses to take Iran military option off the table despite new US NIE Report, warning that Iran was, is, and remains dangerous as long as they have nuke knowledge. NIE report shows only that US-World must remain vigilant.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 20:46|| 2007-12-04 20:46|| Front Page Top

#54 If Iran ACTUALLY stopped the nuclear weapons program 4 years ago, it was because Bush just got through taking out Afghanistan to their immediate left, and Saddams regime to their immediate right and common sense told them they better be in position to PROVE to the world they are not into WMD if our troops started threatening to start pouring tomahawks into Tehran.

Posted by Victor Emmanuel Whusoque4891 2007-12-04 21:07|| 2007-12-04 21:07|| Front Page Top

#55 Waow, the Newsmax article cited by "Phinater Thraviger" is great.

A real must read!

In short:

1) "The NIE Report was written by former State Department political and intelligence analysts not by more seasoned members of the U.S. intelligence community";

2) "Its most dramatic conclusion that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003 in response to international pressure is based on a single, unvetted source who provided information to a foreign intelligence service and has not been interviewed directly by the United States."

3) "The National Intelligence Council, which produced the NIE, is chaired by Thomas Fingar, a State Department intelligence analyst with no known overseas experience" who "was a key partner of Senate Democrats in their successful effort to derail the confirmation of John Bolton in the spring of 2005 to become the U.S. permanent representative to the United Nations."

4) "Collaborating with Fingar on the Iran estimate, released on Monday, were Kenneth Brill, the director of the National Counterproliferation Center, and Vann H. Van Diepen, the National Intelligence officer for Weapons of Mass Destruction and Proliferation.":

4a) "Kenneth Brill consistently failed to confront Iran once its clandestine nuclear weapons program was exposed in February 2003";

4b) "Van Diepen was insubordinate, hated WMD sanctions, and strived not to implement them, even though it was his specific responsibility at State to do so"

This US intel report has been written by three dangerously incompetent US "analysts" !!!

This is really incredible !!!

Posted by Leroidavid">Leroidavid 2007-12-04 21:24|| 2007-12-04 21:24|| Front Page Top

#56 NEWSVINE > PRODHORETZ - US INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY FORGED IRAN NIE REPORT TO UNDERMINE BUSH. *NEWSVINE Poster - CIA has a COUP-D'ETAT in mind [agz their own Govt + Country?]; + USA WILL ALLOW SOME URANIUM IMPORTS TO IRAN FROM RUSSIA.

ALso from NEWSVINE > MSNBC REPORTS RUDY [Guiliani] HAS STRONG TIES TO TERROR.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 21:31|| 2007-12-04 21:31|| Front Page Top

#57 I have been digesting this subject quite a bit today when I have had a bit of time. Some thoughts:

1. #40 comment by gorb was right on the mark. Iran, through its actions and rhetoric wants the big stick of nuclear weapons. You do not develop long range ballistic missiles to put a black powder warhead on. You need throw weight. And that means nuclear weapons. Though what I would imagine you would need would be plutonium fueled fissile weapons.

2. I also agree with comment #42 by KBK. An enrichment program for U235 would bring a relatively (no pun intended) easy and quick fission bomb on line by using the uranium gun design. This may not go on a missile, but maybe on a suicide plane, or some other vehicle. At least they can say that they have a bomb. U235 concentration is the easiest path to fissile material, other than buying it on the black market.

3. Iran can take its time with the weapons. Wait out President Bush's administration. Play more rope-a-dope with the EU, UN, US. It has bought them time.

4. One great big dissapointment I have had w/r/t relations with Iran has been the absolute lack of using the founding principles of the US to raise the moral bar against Iran and appeal to the Iranian people by multiple avenues. We should have been shaming the MM regime and appealing to the people directly. By overt and covert means we needed to facilitate regime change in that country. That would be the ONLY way to ensure that nukes are not produced Iran and spread around. What have we done? The ~~PoS~~ DoState has elevated the level of the MMs by doing dumb-a$$ed diplomatic type behavior, instead of trying to elevate the people and deligitimatize the MMs. We do not have official relations with the Iranian govt, so what is there to lose?

5. If you really want to see what the real threats that Iran (and proxy Syria) pose, watch the Israelis (their intelligence and the IDF). They are on an extremely short trip wire. They CANNOT afford to be wrong, even once. They will be gone. They will not have a country to live in.

6. There are lots of unknowns out there, not enough hard intelligence, and to make matters worse, many in our intel agencies have their own agenda. I trust very very few of them.

7. Engineers hope for the best and plan for the worst. This engineer sees it clearly that Iran has had a concerted effort to acquire nuclear weapons. They have not changed their goals, though they may have put their programs on hold for various reasons. They obfuscate and they stall. Their rhetoric needs to be taken seriously, because the price of a mistaken assessment is the deaths of many innocent people.

I would not stake my life nor that of my family and friends on the NIE report. The MMs need to be brought down. We need to be thinking Sun Tzu, not rope-a-dope diplomacy, in our strategy to achieve this goal.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-12-04 21:32|| 2007-12-04 21:32|| Front Page Top

#58 NEWSVINE > "FATHER OF REAGANOMICS" SAYS BUSH IS MOVING [USA] TOWARDS A POLICE STATE. See also various anti-Bush/GOP Net websites on proposed US SENATE-HOUSE legislations in suppor of new nationwide domestic hyper-regulations???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 21:35|| 2007-12-04 21:35|| Front Page Top

#59 man, was that ever funny!!

Posted by You ignorant slut 2007-12-04 21:38|| 2007-12-04 21:38|| Front Page Top

#60 TOPIX/INTELLIBRIEFS > IRAN TELLS USA TO EASE UP + IRAN DEMANDS COMPENSATION FROM US OVER NUCLEAR PROGRAM LIES + IRAN: NIE REPORT IS PROOF OF US LIES/FALSE PROPAGANDA.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-04 22:59|| 2007-12-04 22:59|| Front Page Top

#61 There is absolutely no proof that Leah Ashley is a slut.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-12-04 23:41|| 2007-12-04 23:41|| Front Page Top

23:54 Seafarious
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