Article

2008-06-20 Afghanistan

A contrast in response to an ambush U.S. vs. British capability

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-06-20 09:11|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Are you saying British troops are crap?

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-06-20 09:32|| 2008-06-20 09:32|| Front Page Top

#2 Brits are long on guts, short on tools of war. BP, in a long range fire fight what's your preference, SAW vs Ma Deuce? Fire superiority trumps bravery.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-06-20 09:47|| 2008-06-20 09:47|| Front Page Top

#3 It's interesting. The govt approved the EuroFighter and the Carriers, when the money is really needed for things like.

UAVs.
Air Transport (Heli)
Proper Supplies.
Body Armour and Night Vision kit.
MRAP Vehicles.
A Decent Troop Rifle.
Heavy Transport(Air and Sea).
oh and it also looks like we British could do with some CROWS systems too.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-06-20 10:05|| 2008-06-20 10:05|| Front Page Top

#4 Looks like they could do with a better vehicle too.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-06-20 10:09|| 2008-06-20 10:09|| Front Page Top

#5 BP, my wife will be in New Ferry, Wiral, Merseyside for three weeks visiting her mother. She isn't happy with what is happening to her beloved England either.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-06-20 10:15|| 2008-06-20 10:15|| Front Page Top

#6 God help the Tommys - they are doing so much with so little. The government needs to step up and arm those guys properly - they will take the fight to the enemy every bit as well as the US does, at least when they have the gear.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-06-20 10:44|| 2008-06-20 10:44|| Front Page Top

#7 God help the Tommys - they are doing so much with so little.

As I read various histories of WWII, WWI and before, it appears that the Tommys have always done much with so very little.

Posted by Steve White 2008-06-20 11:05|| 2008-06-20 11:05|| Front Page Top

#8 BP - I'm sure the US would gladly sell you the Kitty Hawk when she retires, but it'll take you five to ten years to be able to use it properly. You don't develop carrier operations capability overnight, especially not catapult-launch, multirole mission capable operations. I don't know how much Britain is putting into its two carriers, but a Nimitz-class ship costs us about $10 billion. The 80 or so aircraft on board cost another $40 billion. That could pay for a lot of the stuff the British Army is currently doing without.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-06-20 11:11|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-06-20 11:11|| Front Page Top

#9 Are you saying British troops are crap?

The UK as a nation is quickly going into the levels of 1940 France where governemnt kowtows to Muslims and police tells to citizens not merely to not resist but to cooperate (should I tell collaborate?) with burglars. And that ends permeating to the troops. They havce the SAS and a few others very goos ones but remeber how they allowed Basra and their sector of Aghanistan going to crap. Remember also the patrol boat captured withe Iraninans and the abject spectacle delivered by a their crew on Iranian TV?

rits are long on guts, short on tools of war. BP, in a long range fire fight what's your preference, SAW vs Ma Deuce? Fire superiority trumps bravery.

Yes, But the Bristsih are teh ones to blame for lacking the tools of war. There is a soite (sorrry but I don't have the URL) who details how time and again the British military bought european equipement for two or theree times the privce of comparable (at times much superior) American equipment. Everything to keep happy their Bruxelian masters.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-06-20 11:12|| 2008-06-20 11:12|| Front Page Top

#10 I've had the privilege of working with the British Army in Basrah the past two months. The soldiers are excellent, but they are absolutely hamstrung by cowardly policies, meager equipment and poor facilities.

However, I will tell you that the British Mastiff (a variant of the MRAP) is probably the best vehicle to be in over here.

Posted by Dreadnought 2008-06-20 11:30|| 2008-06-20 11:30|| Front Page Top

#11 The Jackals in the video are built like up armoured prams. Here is a video regarding the Mastiff fighting vehicle:

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-06-20 11:50|| 2008-06-20 11:50|| Front Page Top

#12 Comparing the British Capability to the US Capability is like comparing the KC Royals to the NY Yankees. The KC players go out every day and play their hearts out...it is just that the upper management has been atrocious over the last 10 years and the team could be better if the higher ups had made better decisions procuring/keeping key positions back when. But they still go out every day with the intention of winning games.

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-06-20 12:42|| 2008-06-20 12:42|| Front Page Top

#13 But the Brits have air power and good air power at that especially tactical air-ground. So, why are we sitting in armored prams firing auto rounds at a distance of 1/2 mile or more when it would be just as easy to call in a few Harriers to lite up the compound?

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2008-06-20 13:15|| 2008-06-20 13:15|| Front Page Top

#14 You don't develop carrier operations capability overnight, especially not catapult-launch, multirole mission capable operations.

Um... The RN invented all the above. Also see armored flight deck and angled flight deck.

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-20 13:29|| 2008-06-20 13:29|| Front Page Top

#15 But OP the rules were different then.

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-20 13:37|| 2008-06-20 13:37|| Front Page Top

#16 Altho the tunes remain the same. Altho the Marines Hymm is different.

So it's best to remember that the UK ran the world with 1/10 the land-mass of the US and did it on and off for 250 years.

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-20 13:48|| 2008-06-20 13:48|| Front Page Top

#17 So it's best to remember that the UK ran the world with 1/10 the land-mass of the US and did it on and off for 250 years.

That was before National Health and all the rest of the Socialist schemes.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-06-20 13:57|| 2008-06-20 13:57|| Front Page Top

#18 You're just angry because they got the good music.

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-20 14:17|| 2008-06-20 14:17|| Front Page Top

#19 Sure, George, sure

Posted by Toby Esterhazy 2008-06-20 14:24|| 2008-06-20 14:24|| Front Page Top

#20 What would a Hungarian know about music?

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-20 14:35|| 2008-06-20 14:35|| Front Page Top

#21 Sorry, the Beatles were only OK and the rolling stones flat out suck.

*ducks*

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-06-20 15:09|| 2008-06-20 15:09|| Front Page Top

#22 sure, george, whatever you say

*looks around nervously*

Posted by Toby Esterhazy 2008-06-20 15:15|| 2008-06-20 15:15|| Front Page Top

#23 What it goes back too, then, is that Tommy could do miracles if only the bloody politicians would part with a few shillings per pound they're now spending to keep jihadis on the dole, yes?

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-06-20 15:26|| 2008-06-20 15:26|| Front Page Top

#24 There you go again, TW, trying to get us back on topic :-)

Posted by Steve White 2008-06-20 16:08|| 2008-06-20 16:08|| Front Page Top

#25 But Darth, you do have to give them credit for the Who, and that more than makes up for the Stones and Gary Glitter.

And adding to TW's point - think if they coudl take 10% of the welfare they pay to non-assimilated "Asians" (as they are called there), and put that into small arms, heavy weapons and vehicles for the British Army.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-06-20 17:09|| 2008-06-20 17:09|| Front Page Top

#26 Well, since H&K rebuilt the SA80s, they are good rifles. But the Brits definitely need lots more M2s, Mark 19s, and a better armored patrol vehicle. And since the Brits want to buy European so much nowadays, they should consider the 4-man armored patrol car that the French make - it is a member of the VAB family.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2008-06-20 17:14|| 2008-06-20 17:14|| Front Page Top

#27 The French (Renault) seem to have jumped on the MRAP bandwagon - see the Eurosatory 2008. Along with everyone else who's exhibiting this year.

Posted by Elmavirong Johnson3058 2008-06-20 17:30|| 2008-06-20 17:30|| Front Page Top

#28 Cool pictures from Eurosatory 2008 -- thanks, Elmavirong Johnson3058! link. Even though I haven't a clue what most of the technical words mean, I wouldn't mind if Mr. Wife bought me a toy or two as a souvenir on his current business trip (probability approaches zero from the far side, I know, but a girl can dream!).

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-06-20 17:49|| 2008-06-20 17:49|| Front Page Top

#29 the Brit TURBO DIESELS in the second Video at the top sure sound sweet to me!!

/recognizing that motors alone do not a combat vehicle make.

Posted by RD">RD 2008-06-20 18:09|| 2008-06-20 18:09|| Front Page Top

#30 two words: Led Zeppelin

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-06-20 18:12|| 2008-06-20 18:12|| Front Page Top

#31 #30 two words: Led Zeppelin

Now that's a VEEEHICKLE tooooride!!! ~:)

Posted by RD">RD 2008-06-20 19:14|| 2008-06-20 19:14|| Front Page Top

#32 /sorry Pappy.. Ima too loose with the exclamation marks... my Doctor she's been a treatin me! >:

Posted by RD">RD 2008-06-20 19:20|| 2008-06-20 19:20|| Front Page Top

#33 The Brits and French are in the same predicament: both have some damned good troops who, man for man, are the equal of any in the world. Both also have governments that are craven and not to be counted on to stand up for those troops against the accusations from domestic leftist moonbats. Soldiers don't fight well when they're looking back over their shoulders wondering when they're going to be attacked from their own side.

Posted by Thaimble Scourge of the Pixies4707 2008-06-20 19:31|| 2008-06-20 19:31|| Front Page Top

#34 /sorry Pappy.. Ima too loose with the exclamation marks... my Doctor she's been a treatin me! >:

They're appropriate in this case. It's when they accompany a "Master of the Obvious!!!" comment that really torques me.

Posted by Pappy 2008-06-20 22:32|| 2008-06-20 22:32|| Front Page Top

#35 Pappy it's a honor.. and thanks again for all you do and have done, for the *Men and *Women who have served and are still serving today!

sometimes I refer to them as *kids.. but I'm wrong when I do... ;)

Posted by RD">RD 2008-06-20 23:42|| 2008-06-20 23:42|| Front Page Top

23:55 RD
23:51 Thaimble Scourge of the Pixies4707
23:42 RD
23:29 Harcourt Jush7795
23:23 RD
23:16 JosephMendiola
23:05 JosephMendiola
22:51 Frank G
22:49 Frank G
22:48 Frank G
22:47 badanov
22:47 Harcourt Jush7795
22:45 Pappy
22:40 Pappy
22:32 Pappy
22:26 trailing wife
22:06 Old Patriot
22:05 Anguper Hupomosing9418
21:41 Procopius2k
21:27 Procopius2k
21:19 Nimble Spemble
21:02 JosephMendiola
20:55 HalfEmpty
20:52 lotp