Article

2008-08-04 Iraq

Iraqis no longer ask, 'Are you Sunni or Shiite?'

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Posted by Mike 2008-08-04 06:26|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 Being a Shiite is no longer key to her survival. Every silver lining has a cloud©

Don't worry, McClatchy, soon they'll be hypenating their names, just like many 'Ethnic-American' groups.

Posted by Bobby 2008-08-04 06:37|| 2008-08-04 06:37|| Front Page Top

#2 Now for the $16,000 question. Will the feeling of nationalism remain within rational limits or will we have a nation of goose-stepping ultra nationalists on our hands in 10 years?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-04 08:24|| 2008-08-04 08:24|| Front Page Top

#3 They're starting to think of themselves as Iraqis, not as hostages to hyphenated, sectarian identities.

Are you sure this is McClatchy?

This is some of the best news, that a very important cultural switch has been flipped.

bigjim, I think they had enough of the goose-step for the prior 30+ years under the Baathists. Thats a pretty good innoculation; they know quite well what lies down that path.

If this continues for a generation, then in 25 years, Georgr Bush is going to look pretty smart in restrospect regarding the decision to fix Iraq after we broke it.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-04 08:47|| 2008-08-04 08:47|| Front Page Top

#4 Now to dump the a$$clowns out of office in DC who try to Balkanize the US--The ones that put party or something else first and country somewhere else further down the line.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-08-04 09:19|| 2008-08-04 09:19|| Front Page Top

#5 Will the feeling of nationalism remain within rational limits or will we have a nation of goose-stepping ultra nationalists on our hands in 10 years?

SWAG - another Mexico. Big ego, oil, political corruption [no worse nor better than Mexico City or Chicago, Newark, Detroit, etc]. Fortunately, no border with us.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-08-04 09:26|| 2008-08-04 09:26|| Front Page Top

#6 goose stepping ultra nationalists? Iraq isnt quite in the geopolitical situation that Germany was in 1939. More like the situation of West Germany in 1950 - a big, threatening neighbor to the east, and a need to make nice with all the nearby neighbors it used to fight with, and to keep a tie to the Big Friend beyond the Ocean.

Historically the goose-stepping nationalism there has been Pan-Arab nationalism - both with its deep historic symbolism, its undertones of racialism, and its promise of undermining the neighbors. That was the basis for Iraqi intervention in Kuwait, as of Egyptian intervention in Yemen, lots of messing around in Jordan and Lebanon, etc, etc. Nationalism built around existing states is much more likely to lead to stability, good international behavior, and maybe even democracy of some type, than was the Pan Arab nationalism of the Baath and Nasserites. That was one of the major premises of the Iraq war, and I think it still stands a pretty good chance of proving true.

Posted by superstitiousGalitizianer 2008-08-04 09:55|| 2008-08-04 09:55|| Front Page Top

#7 This is exceptionally good news. It is called the "social sanction", which means the unwritten law of courtesy. It is universally enforced, and exists in different forms in every country, as if every person is a policeman, and woe to those who violate it.

It has both "misdemeanor" and "felony" violations, and it is also very strongly enforced. Only if you are lucky will you get a warning.

Even in the US, if you violate one of our serious social sanctions, you could get attacked in public.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-04 10:52|| 2008-08-04 10:52|| Front Page Top

#8 superstitiousGalitizianer ,
I'm thinking that substantial outside threats, real or perceived, bring about ultra-nationalist sentiment. Like Germany in 1939, Iraq may be tempted to undertake an India/Pakistan type buildup against its perceived enemies.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-04 11:01|| 2008-08-04 11:01|| Front Page Top

#9 Germany in 1939 was one of the worlds biggest economic powers. It was far stronger than France, and was capable of almost matching Britain, which had more far flung commitments. Only the USSR could really overawe it, and the USSR did indeed threaten it. But the USSR was temporarily weakened in 1939-41, in the aftermath of the purges.

The analogy here would be the Iraq-Iran balance in 1980, after the Iranian rev weakened the Iranian military.

Well they already HAD that war. Iraq didnt too quite as badly as Nazi germany, but they still lost, and Iran has grown past them.

Today the threat from Iran is too great for Iraq to handle alone, and they know it. Again, their situation is more like that of post WW2 Germany, facing a threat that can only be met by being a good neighbor to would be allies (esp Turkey, and to some extent Jordan and KSA)

Posted by superstitiousGalitizianer 2008-08-04 11:42|| 2008-08-04 11:42|| Front Page Top

#10 Only the USSR could really overawe it, and the USSR did indeed threaten it. But the USSR was temporarily weakened in 1939-41

Don't forget, too, the USSR and Germany were de facto allies in that period. (Remember the Hitler-Stalin Pact?) Both were planning to stab the other in the back sooner or later; Hitler just beat Uncle Joe to the draw.

Posted by Mike 2008-08-04 13:15|| 2008-08-04 13:15|| Front Page Top

#11 I beg to differ with superstitiousGalitizianer. The Iraqis were winning the land war in 1988 when the Iranians finally accepted the UN ceasefire. Furthermore, the Iraqi Army right now could easily defeat any Iranian force with even numbers of troops on each side. If the Iranians wanted to leverage their weight of numbers, then more than enough air support would be provided from friendly nations to stop the Iranians cold.

The only threat of force the Iranians can use on their neighbors anymore is via irregular combat, and they can only expect more reprisals in kind if they keep going down that route. They are in a hole and won't stop digging.

Posted by rammer">rammer 2008-08-04 19:44|| www.blogoram.com]">[www.blogoram.com] 2008-08-04 19:44|| Front Page Top

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