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2008-08-04 Home Front: WoT
"Ex-Spook" Sez Anthrax Suspect Suicide a Cover-up
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Posted by Bobby 2008-08-04 06:21|| || Front Page|| [2 views ]  Top

#1 Actually, I think this guy is on to something, although not quite the conclusion he might agree with: they want Ivins to be the fall guy because that way they don't have to deal with any unpleasant ramifications of it being a foreign government.

Saying Ivins did it lets the Tranzistocracy say all their natural suspicions about the case were fulfilled without really having to PROVE anything.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 09:17||   2008-08-04 09:17|| Front Page Top

#2 There are many questions worthy of being asked about this case. Not sure these *particular* questions are included, but the more I read about Dr. Ivins, the more questions are raised in my mind.

If his "psychologists" testimony is credible, we are very fortunate he missed his chance to go out in a "blaze of glory" by shooting all his coworkers.

But why didn't we hear anything about him before?
Posted by Seafarious 2008-08-04 09:18||   2008-08-04 09:18|| Front Page Top

#3 And I really wish I could tell ya to keep your powder dry, but all the legalized second amendment rapid-fire bazookas in the world won't save you from anthrax.

Kids, just do yourselves a favor, move away from any populated areas, and remember that keeping civilization running and artificial constructs like "Humanity" or "The United States" are someone else's problem. If They Don't Want To Survive there's nothing you can do to make them.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 09:20||   2008-08-04 09:20|| Front Page Top

#4 Sea, the questions that come to mind for me are: they spent the last seven years _starting_ with the assumption that it was done by someone at Ft. Detrick, and probalby the last five trying to prove Ivins did it. And they still weren't able to, although they were able to drive him around the bend.

There's a lot of big business and money riding on getting us to believe the anthrax attacks were done by either a lone nut working for the government or a government conspiracy, so as to save "the aristocracy" from the consequences of the US suddenly going to war with another pack of their pet totalitarians (say, a more inconvenient bunch than Saddam's Iraq, like Syria or the UAE).

They can talk about Conspiracy! on DU, but they forget that talk of Conspiracy! can cut both ways: Al Qaeda really _does_ exist, and there really are foreign governments hostile to not only the United States, but the continued existance of freedom in general on this planet.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 09:35||   2008-08-04 09:35|| Front Page Top

#5 They can talk about Conspiracy! on DU, but they forget that talk of Conspiracy! can cut both ways: Al Qaeda really _does_ exist, and there really are foreign governments hostile to not only the United States, but the continued existance of freedom in general on this planet.

AND they have allies here, whose main propaganda "line of attack" these days is to argue that the hostile foreign powers either don't exist or are insignificant.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 09:46||   2008-08-04 09:46|| Front Page Top

#6 These peopel are NUTS - and liars.

For example: there is an autopsy because it is legally required in all crimes, and yes, suicide is a crime.

How are we letting so many mentally ill paranoid people out on the streets?

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-04 10:28||   2008-08-04 10:28|| Front Page Top

#7 "discrediting department" - are the people on DU so gullible that an obvious lie gets swallowed unquestioningly? This guy is no more of an "ex spook" than my parakeet is.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-04 10:37||   2008-08-04 10:37|| Front Page Top

#8 Interesting article in today's Frederick Post

Arthur O. Anderson, a medical doctor and scientist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Disease at Fort Detrick, said Duley's description of Ivins doesn't match his impressions of a man with whom he worked for many years.

"The remaining allegations about murderous ideas and plans sound so foreign to me that in the absence of contemporaneously documented evidence I would have to consider them items of Ms. Duley's vivid imagination or information fed to her by the people she communicated with outside the therapeutic environment," Anderson wrote in an e-mail to the News-Post. "It is not at all surprising to me that a patient whose therapist is serving as a double agent 'therapist' and 'accuser' would become very angry with the therapist and might make some rather dramatic expressions of that anger."

The doctor and scientist paused briefly after being asked if he believes Ivins committed suicide.

"Oh, yeah," he said. "I think all of the circumstances put him in a place where he felt he had no place to go."

Anderson said he became aware in June that the FBI had taken items out of Ivins' lab.

"The FBI took all of the stored things in his lab freezer," Anderson said. "They basically destroyed his life's work. I think that's what upset him the most."

Anderson said it is "highly incomprehensible" to him that Ivins would be regarded as the perpetrator in this case simply because he had access to anthrax.

He said he last saw Ivins around July 6. Ivins told him the FBI was stalking him, following him everywhere, Anderson said.

"He was animated and appropriately concerned, but certainly not out of control."

Anderson does not believe Ivins is responsible for the 2001 anthrax deaths.

"Now that he can't defend himself against the allegations, this will play out the way it will play out," he said.

But he firmly believes it wasn't guilt that killed his colleague and friend.

"I think it was the sense of betrayal and complete abandonment by those around him," Anderson said. "He cared so much and had so much pride in the work he did -- I don't think he could handle that sense of abandonment."


There was an autopsy.

Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David Fowler, confirmed Saturday that the cause of Ivins' death was found to be an overdose of acetaminophen, the active drug in Tylenol; and that it was ruled a suicide based on information from police and doctors, according to the AP.

Kimberly Thomas, a forensic examiner with the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, would not comment Saturday on results from Ivins' autopsy or confirm Dr. Fowler's statement.


Curiouser and curiouser.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-04 10:49||   2008-08-04 10:49|| Front Page Top

#9 This is why we should allow water boarding. Just get to the facts the most direct route. Scaring the crap outta the witnesses is of little harm and less concern.
Send in Joe Wilson.
Posted by wxjames 2008-08-04 10:57||   2008-08-04 10:57|| Front Page Top

#10 If we knew the witnesses were guilty, yeah.

But the first step in the process seems to have been getting this guy more or less fired and then bankrupting him with legal bills, all before he's ever actually charged with anything.

And unlike the ex-Guantanamo guy who went on to kill a couple housewives in his suicide bombing mission in Iraq, no rich Gulf Arabs were going to step forward to hire a big legal firm to handle all his problems for free.

Welcome to the Tranzitocracy.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 11:20||   2008-08-04 11:20|| Front Page Top

#11 A Tylenol overdose, no other substance? Riiiight....
Posted by imoyaro 2008-08-04 11:55||   2008-08-04 11:55|| Front Page Top

#12 A Tylenol overdose, no other substance?

Nothing else you can buy over the counter will kill you as surely as Tylenol -- but it is an awful, painful way to go.

Anyway, this whole thing has smacked of cover up since day one, though the DU hasn't any more idea of what actually happened than the rest of us.
Posted by Iblis 2008-08-04 12:24||   2008-08-04 12:24|| Front Page Top

#13 Acetaminophin overdose leads to fulminant hepatic necrosis -- liver failure. We see it at our ICU a few times a year, and it's almost always because of a suicide attempt.
Posted by Steve White  2008-08-04 12:59||   2008-08-04 12:59|| Front Page Top

#14 I've heard the vast majority of suicide attempts using tylenol are successful.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 14:13||   2008-08-04 14:13|| Front Page Top

#15 Not Riiiight.... arrogant conspira-monger.
If you are going to try to promote dumb-ass conspiracy theories, at least attempt not to use lies and half-truths that can be rebutted on the spot.
It was prescription Tylenol with codeine. This is a prescription drug for good reason. If you believe otherwise, give us your reasons.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2008-08-04 15:13||   2008-08-04 15:13|| Front Page Top

#16 It must be pretty frustrating to conspira-dupes that they cannot feed their blighted egoes (and Alex Jones's bank account) by claiming that this was an inside job by sinister government agents; since the official story admits that it was, er, an inside job by a sinister government agent.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2008-08-04 15:18||   2008-08-04 15:18|| Front Page Top

#17 Actually, AC, you don't get it. They can now say they were vindicated by the official story.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-04 15:28||   2008-08-04 15:28|| Front Page Top

#18 Suppose President McCain were to come out next January 21st and announce that the 9-11 attacks actually were an inside job engineered by Dick Cheney and Bush.
In that case, the conspiracy industry would suddenly shift to protraying the former demons-in-chief as innocent scapegoats.
They don't want answers of any kind, they want allegations and speculation.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2008-08-04 15:43||   2008-08-04 15:43|| Front Page Top

#19 End this conspiracy bullshit now:

Researchers looked at samples of cells from the victims to identify the kind of anthrax Ames strain that killed them, a government scientist said Monday. They noticed very subtle differences in the DNA of the strain used in the attacks than in other types of Ames anthrax.

Spores taken from envelopes used to mail the anthrax, as well as from the sites where they were sent, were also scrutinized.

With that, investigators linked the specific type of anthrax back to Ivins' biological weapons lab at Ft. Detrick in Frederick, Md., where he oversaw its use and handling for research.

"It had to do with the very specific characteristics in the DNA of the letters and what was in Bruce's labs," said the government scientist who is close to the investigation. "They were cultures he was personally responsible for."


So, contrary to the conspiracy idiots, there was physical evidence, there was an autopsy.

NO CONSPIRACY. None.

Sheesh, people are so fecking gullible - and like I said, that "ex spook" simply was lying.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-04 16:28||   2008-08-04 16:28|| Front Page Top

#20 Mike Nifong.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-04 18:34||   2008-08-04 18:34|| Front Page Top

#21 Move along, nothing to see here.
Posted by Halliburton JFK / Moon Landing Division 2008-08-04 20:36||   2008-08-04 20:36|| Front Page Top

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