Article

2008-08-08 Home Front Economy

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by tu3031 2008-08-08 08:38|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 I wonder how many have Democratic mayors and council majorities? Probably all.

Harbinger of things to come nationally.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2008-08-08 09:10|| 2008-08-08 09:10|| Front Page Top

#2 All four Ohio cities have Dems running the show. Youngstown has been a one-party town since before I was born--one of many reasons I left.

Posted by Mike 2008-08-08 09:40|| 2008-08-08 09:40|| Front Page Top

#3 Springfield was the Anus of Western Massachusetts when I was out around there thirty years ago. Sounds like it's even worse now.

Posted by tu3031 2008-08-08 09:52|| 2008-08-08 09:52|| Front Page Top

#4 The sad part is that every one of the cities listed were once powerhouses of heavy industry. Chocked full of high paying union jobs. We've been sold down the river boys. All those jobs are in Korea or China now. I guess we'll all have to be IT guys or Lawyers if we dont want to starve to death in the next 20 years.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-08 09:59|| 2008-08-08 09:59|| Front Page Top

#5 Old industrial cities that have lost their economic base to overseas operations with lower labor (and environmental and regulatory) costs. The exodus was accelerated by union actions to protect their own. Politicians were unwilling or unable to see alternatives - new economic bases - so the people have to leave. Mechanization did the same to farm labor 100 years ago and drove the workers TO these same cities.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-08-08 10:01|| 2008-08-08 10:01|| Front Page Top

#6 Those were all big union and dhimocrat places. Higher than market pay with low productivity and high taxes have been the death of those areas.

Posted by DarthVader 2008-08-08 10:02|| 2008-08-08 10:02|| Front Page Top

#7 Bigjim,

Look around. Those are Honda, Nissan, and Toyota plants around the US. They're just not union. The Japanese built them here. With the dollar low, they're getting their money's worth, while we bid farewell to Detroit. It also trumps the union and Detroit's attempt to put import quotas on the vehicles like they did in the first oil shock in the 70s. Consumer Reports Apr 07, built in the US:
Acura TL, BMW X5, Honda Accord*, Honda CR-V*, Honda Odyssey*, Hyundai Sonata, Infiniti QX56, Mazda6, Mazda Tribute, Mercedes M Class, Mercedes R Class, Mitsubishi Galant, Nissan Altima, Nissan Maxima, Nissan Pathfinder, Nissan Titan, Saab 9-7X, Subaru Legacy, Toyota Camry, Toyota Sienna, Toyota Tundra. * built in more than one country.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-08-08 10:12|| 2008-08-08 10:12|| Front Page Top

#8 Economic migration out of the Northeast has been going on for a long time. First it was the mills moving to the south. Then high-tech going to more business friendly environs.

Aggressive mostly mobbed up unions and politicians succeeded in killing the golden goose.

Posted by AlanC 2008-08-08 10:54|| 2008-08-08 10:54|| Front Page Top

#9 The auto industry is a little more ambiguous than other heavy industry like the steel industry, mining, manufactured goods. And as for the unions, that is their affair, I used to be in the carpenters and piledrivers union before returning to school. I made good money, with OK benefits. The alternative was $12/hr. with no benefits. Why the f*ck would anyone legally in this country work for that? Unions have their place, large companies cant negotiate with every single worker. But they have done a real number on GM at the same time. Without the union you are probably going to make peanuts, just eating money, if you've never worked in the trades you probably wouldn't understand.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-08 11:09|| 2008-08-08 11:09|| Front Page Top

#10 My father was in the trades and the older of my brothers still is. I've seen both sides of the union issue ....

Union wages in the 60s sent me to college. But by the 80s my father himself was disgusted with what he saw as short-sighted focus only on wages and arcane limitations on job descriptions, to the exclusion of safety issues and cooperation to keep industry competitive. It wasn't only the CEOs who got very greedy in the 80s.

Now it's corruption. My brother switched unions after having been a foreman in his old trade. He casually mentioned the bribe he had to pay to get accepted and the bribes that go into job letting. Not pretty and definitely not healthy for our society IMO.

Posted by lotp 2008-08-08 11:34|| 2008-08-08 11:34|| Front Page Top

#11 The sad part is that every one of the cities listed were once powerhouses of heavy industry. Chocked full of high paying union jobs. We've been sold down the river boys.

Oh dear, I must've missed the part in the Constitution about high wages being a right.

Posted by Pappy 2008-08-08 12:28|| 2008-08-08 12:28|| Front Page Top

#12 In contrast, the 10 fastest-selling areas are linked nearby - a couple of surprises, and I suspect many (or all) are Democraptic:

1. Raleigh, NC
2. San Francisco, CA
3. Austin, TX
4. San Antonio, TX
5. St. Louis, MO
6. Houston, TX
7. Portland, OR
8. Dallas, TX
9. Denver, CO
10. Baltimore, MD

Posted by Bobby 2008-08-08 12:52|| 2008-08-08 12:52|| Front Page Top

#13 Chocked full of high paying union jobs

Don't worry the next election is going to take care of that little Right-to-Work law.

Posted by .5MT 2008-08-08 12:57|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-08-08 12:57|| Front Page Top

#14 And then the US will retake it's rightful place as #1 producer of Pig Iron, Lead, Steel and Fullers Earth.

Posted by .5MT 2008-08-08 13:16|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-08-08 13:16|| Front Page Top

#15 And Whips, Buggy, assorted, consisting of Birch, Ash, Oak and remanents there of, weighing each less than 2 lbs but more than 3 oz. Colored, dyed and otherwise changed by agents of titanium, cobalt, selium and others not mentioned. Class 150 unless KD then Class 120.

Posted by .5MT 2008-08-08 13:20|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-08-08 13:20|| Front Page Top

#16 Stop waving around those scalpels, .5MT, someone's going to get hurt. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-08-08 13:38|| 2008-08-08 13:38|| Front Page Top

#17 My Honda was made in Ohio apparently.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-08 13:39|| 2008-08-08 13:39|| Front Page Top

#18 I'd not recommend IT - its fully being sent overseas, places like India or Manila. That's where my non-Defense job vaporized and then reformed (Manila).

So Im either going back into DoD work again, or (likely) finding something at night while I go back to school and get my RN.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-08 13:42|| 2008-08-08 13:42|| Front Page Top

#19 Ima putting muh Dell thru VN school.
Virtual Nuss is the next big thing.

Posted by .5MT 2008-08-08 13:51|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2008-08-08 13:51|| Front Page Top

#20 My very first job after high school was at Republic Steel in Canton in the early 70's as a overhead crane operator. Big money - small work. I got two weeks paid vacation even for three months of "work". Earned enough during summer vacations to pay cash for four years of college.
Republic went bankrupt in 2000.

First job after college was in IT (office job) at Youngstown Sheet and Tube in (where else) Youngstown. Big money - hard work. The union guys made huge money. Boats, campers and winter vacations in FL when noone else did. YS&T is gone gone gone now too.

The USW was greedy and management was stupid and inept.

Always a bad combination.

Posted by GORT 2008-08-08 13:57|| 2008-08-08 13:57|| Front Page Top

#21 If there are any Boeing Bubbas on this thread y'all might wanta read this and rethink what YOUR union is doing to you. That 787 outsource thing is really working well ain't it?
(for the rest: the IAM contract w/ Boeing ends real soon ( like next month, i think) and the SPEEA one (for the white collar folks) in December). the IAM 'leadership' hasn't realized that there is life outside of Everett, WA and taking the airplane industry the same place the UAW took the auto world.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2008-08-08 14:16|| 2008-08-08 14:16|| Front Page Top

#22 I don't work for Boeing - but live in Washington State (Lynnwood between Everett and Seattle).

Don't forget that Boeing also moved their headquarters from Seattle to Chicago a few years back. I can't help but think its part of a stratagy to start outsourcing more and more of the work overseas.

I'm sure places like the Philippines can easily supply a boatload of willing workers who will work for a quarter of the cost of labor in the US - and think its heaven on earth.

Then there are the 'monopoly' unions, like the Washington [non]Education Association (teachers union), who practically run the state DNC.

I think unions should also be held _responsible_ for their workforce. Ok you can prevent someone from being fired - but if a teacher molests a student the UNION should be held responsible (and liable for multi-million-dollar lawsuits) as well and the union should be held responsible for the quality of the teachers they force us to use.

I think in the olden days that was called a 'guild' wasn't it?

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-08-08 14:35|| 2008-08-08 14:35|| Front Page Top

#23 CF- I like your take on the WEA; Daughter and Son-in-law both are teachers in Yelm and have the same opinion.

Teh Oak Harbors school system also is infected with condoning the WEA-mandated mediocrity; when daughter was in 6th grade, her teacher bragged that he had only 3 more years till retirement and was on what we in the service called the ROAD program; retired on active duty. we got her to a new teacher that very same day.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2008-08-08 17:00|| 2008-08-08 17:00|| Front Page Top

23:52 trailing wife
23:46 trailing wife
23:28 JosephMendiola
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:16 JosephMendiola
23:13 Betty Grating2215
22:45 Abdominal Snowman
22:43 Abdominal Snowman
22:36 JosephMendiola
22:35 3dc
22:29 JosephMendiola
22:22 Old Patriot
22:17 JosephMendiola
22:11 Fred
22:08 Skunky Glins 5***
22:06 linker
22:05 linker
22:03 JosephMendiola
22:03 Frank G on the road
22:01 JosephMendiola
21:57 3dc
21:57 Herman Spaper1682
21:49 Frank G on the road
21:47 JosephMendiola