Article

2008-08-21 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

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Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-21 10:23|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 The announcement comes after it was reported that Turkey gave its go-ahead to sail through its straits into the Black Sea.

;)

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-21 10:58|| 2008-08-21 10:58|| Front Page Top

#2 Sweeeet...

Posted by DarthVader 2008-08-21 11:03|| 2008-08-21 11:03|| Front Page Top

#3 Hmmm ... a US Army flag officer in Tblisi.

Heh.

Posted by mrp 2008-08-21 11:39|| 2008-08-21 11:39|| Front Page Top

#4
From Haaretz Flash:

18:35 Hamas voices support for Russian military operation in Georgia (DPA)

GMT+1

Nor really relevant to the article but interesting nonetheless.

Posted by Col B. Guano (ret.) 2008-08-21 12:07|| 2008-08-21 12:07|| Front Page Top

#5 In a "theoritical" fight how much of a chance would these two ships have against the aging Russian Black Sea Fleet? I don't think there will be any kind of fight, but I'm curious of our chances if the Russians decide our ships need to be "inspected".

Posted by Charles 2008-08-21 12:20|| 2008-08-21 12:20|| Front Page Top

#6 That's a whole lot of SM-2s off the beach. I think coming in with the Battle Ensigns waving in the breeze would be a nice touch :)

Posted by mrp 2008-08-21 12:23|| 2008-08-21 12:23|| Front Page Top

#7 In a "theoritical" fight how much of a chance would these two ships have against the aging Russian Black Sea Fleet?

None.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-08-21 12:31|| 2008-08-21 12:31|| Front Page Top

#8 So is it 2 or 3 ships? only two are named, one USN and one USCG. maybe the third is dreamed of SSN (dreamed about here a coule days ago). And the Cutter doesn't have nearly the firepower the DDG does; seems like a half baked response. but better than no response. i guess.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2008-08-21 12:56|| 2008-08-21 12:56|| Front Page Top

#9 I don't think these ships are any kind of "Battle Group". Their announced purpose is to deliver humanitarian supplies, although an auxiliary cargo ship would have a lot more capacity.

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-08-21 13:01|| 2008-08-21 13:01|| Front Page Top

#10 This is a measured response dictated by the situation on the ground. We don't want to get into a shooting war with the Russians. They are all atwitter right now and so undo provocation, however satisfying, is not needed. But the presence of two US warships sends a signal nevertheless. Russia certainly doesn't want a shooting war either. These guys are a trip wire/line in the sand that the Russians know they can't cross. They will gnash teeth, they will take out their frustrations on the Georgians, unfortunately, but they won't do anything to our ships.

Posted by remoteman 2008-08-21 13:07|| 2008-08-21 13:07|| Front Page Top

#11 The AP is reporting that the third US ship to transit the Turkish Straits is the USS Mount Whitney . In addition, according to the AP:

Turkey's foreign ministry said Germany, Poland and Spain also have notified the Turkish government that they are sending humanitarian aid aboard navy ships to Georgia via the Turkish Straits. LINK

Posted by mrp 2008-08-21 13:45|| 2008-08-21 13:45|| Front Page Top

#12 Hmmmm...

Here's the unclass info on the Whitney

Posted by Pappy 2008-08-21 13:54|| 2008-08-21 13:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Very interesting, Pappy.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2008-08-21 14:21|| 2008-08-21 14:21|| Front Page Top

#14 Turkey's foreign ministry said Germany

Finally.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-21 14:24|| 2008-08-21 14:24|| Front Page Top

#15 Looks like a humanitarian mission to me. The ships are non-threatening, and the Whitney is going to be there just to carry supplies. The Russians might board the ships, but I don't think they'd attack them.

Posted by gorb 2008-08-21 15:21|| 2008-08-21 15:21|| Front Page Top

#16 USS Mt Whitney is a command and control ship. Ie it has reduced armmant and enhanced communication gear and sensors compared to a normal ship. In other words she is ideal to learn about Russian forces movements and capabilities.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-08-21 15:55|| 2008-08-21 15:55|| Front Page Top

#17 Not only will the Russians board the ships but they will end up stealing the humanitarian supplies being delivered. I don't agree with this at all - would rather see an airlift type response. This may end up being a mockery and nothing we can do about it.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2008-08-21 16:05|| 2008-08-21 16:05|| Front Page Top

#18 Why should the Russians board US Navy ships? They will be in international or Georgian waters. I would think that boarding a warship like that would be considered an act of war.
And stealing humanitarian supplies is at best an act of piracy and at worst an act of war.

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-08-21 16:28|| 2008-08-21 16:28|| Front Page Top

#19 There is not going to be any ship boarding for lots of reasons. To start with, the Russians have zero, nil, no authority in that no war has been declared. No Russian captain in his right mind, or even roaring drunk, is going to try that one on.

Second, US ships are US territory. Stepping on a US ship without authorization is an act of war at worst, and piracy at best. If a Russian ships captain and his staff are invited over, it will be for a dinner in the boardroom, and they will wear their dress uniforms.

And forced boarding, I might add, would also be suicidal. Do you think we are just sending in surface ships? Each LA class attack sub packs about 26 Mark-48 torpedoes and Harpoons in some combination.

"Here be monsters" should be their motto.

Once they land in port, it will be a different situation altogether, but at sea, they are safe as houses.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-21 16:35|| 2008-08-21 16:35|| Front Page Top

#20 Seems to me that:

1) the ships serve as a "don't go there" line for Vlad

2) the ships do indeed bring some humanitarian supplies so that we're not lying through out teeth

3) The Whitney turns her ears onto all the Rooskies are doing, passing all the info back to the Pentagon, and passing some to the Georgians

4) The McFaul protects the Whitney

5) The Dallas is there for odd jobs and burnishes the humanitarian angle

Posted by Steve White 2008-08-21 16:55|| 2008-08-21 16:55|| Front Page Top

#21 ...but at sea, they are safe as houses.

Safe as houses in a F5?
Sorry had to be a smart ass...

Anyway, the Russians would only board the US ships to show they are willing to go to the hilt and war over Georgia. I expect the ships to be harassed, shadowed, overflown, buzzed, etc. the entire time they are in the Black Sea. If they do try to board them, I expect to see 3 Russian armored columns punch into Georgia proper for conquest.

Posted by DarthVader 2008-08-21 16:58|| 2008-08-21 16:58|| Front Page Top

#22 1) No Rusia&n captain will ever take the initiative of borading the US ships. No unless he wants to end in Gulag: this would mean war and captains are not allowed to start wars.

2) Ditto for Russian admirals

3) Only Puttin can give the order and he knows the risks.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-08-21 17:09|| 2008-08-21 17:09|| Front Page Top

#23 Besides theses ships there is this

'Spain's SPS Adm. Juan de Bourbon, Germany's FGS Luebeck and the Polish ship ORP General K Pulaski. Romanian and Bulgarian ships will join them for exercises during a three-week deployment'

from this crosslink
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=247834&D=2008-08-21&SO=&HC=3

Posted by linker 2008-08-21 18:11|| 2008-08-21 18:11|| Front Page Top

#24 sorry for double post missed #11

Posted by linker 2008-08-21 18:12|| 2008-08-21 18:12|| Front Page Top

#25 The Mount Whitney is quite a sniffer to have in the area. Plus it has huge amount of helicopters it can run off the decks for bypassing Russian roadblocks of ground-based supply deliveries.

The cutter Dallas is there clearly for port operations. Coasties excel at that sort of thing, and given that Poti has been utterly trashed by the ~~Soviets~~ Russians, they will need all kinds of expertise rehabbing the port facilities there.

I wonder if the Ukrainians want to semi-permanently host a rotating NATO flotilla in Odessa... hmm.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-21 18:38|| 2008-08-21 18:38|| Front Page Top

#26 The senior faculty at Rantburg University are earning their suede elbow patches today for sure.

Thanks for the ejamacashun! Very informative.

Posted by Seafarious 2008-08-21 18:49|| 2008-08-21 18:49|| Front Page Top

#27 Been on a WHEC. They have no ASW, and limited Anti-Air and Anti-missile capability. The Arleigh Burke class destroyers are very capable, but not outside of the Strike Group.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2008-08-21 18:53|| 2008-08-21 18:53|| Front Page Top

#28 Agree with OS on the Mt Whitney. But it is a command and control ship with limited firepower.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2008-08-21 18:56|| 2008-08-21 18:56|| Front Page Top

#29 I wonder if the Ukrainians want to semi-permanently host a rotating NATO flotilla in Odessa

Another outcome due to the application of the rule of unintended consequences.

Posted by gorb 2008-08-21 19:30|| 2008-08-21 19:30|| Front Page Top

#30 Remember what they did to Savannah in '64!

Posted by borgboy 2008-08-21 19:31|| 2008-08-21 19:31|| Front Page Top

#31 The LCC's "threat" is simply providing a politically unattackble airfield, C4I center, and logistics point.

Plus the large flat deck, refueling, etc provide massive amounts of tactical mobility, and combined with strategic sealift and airlift, its enought to force the Russians into a corner where they either must roll back, or deliberately attack a lightly armed ship (or its auxilliaries like helicopters) on a mission of mercy.

Being able to bypass Russian roadblocks, deliver food, water, medical supplies, etc, any place we want to is a huge thumb in the eye of the occupiers.

This is one time when "beans" could carry a lot larger impact than bullets.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-21 19:57|| 2008-08-21 19:57|| Front Page Top

#32 Poor Russia was so keen on demonstrating U.S. powerlessness to support WOT allies. Unintended consequences indeed. In the meantime, both Israeli and American Jewish refugee aid societies are working to help those driven out by the Russians, in addition to the American Air Force. Perhaps America flew them in, I don't know.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2008-08-21 20:10|| 2008-08-21 20:10|| Front Page Top

#33 If the Russians try to board a US Ship, I am sure we will see the first use of a Laser Guided 1000 pound JDAM hit a Russian boarding ship aimed from a Stealth fighter over head.

2000 pound JDAM hitting the boarding party's boat would, yeah, be asking a bit too much, I reckon.

Posted by Jorong Barnsmell6594 2008-08-21 20:24|| 2008-08-21 20:24|| Front Page Top

#34 The Mt Whitney can also embark Marines, I believe. I don't know if they have any aboard right now. (Other than staff elements.)

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-08-21 20:40|| 2008-08-21 20:40|| Front Page Top

#35 LCC 20 Mount Whitney nfo

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/lcc-20.htm

Posted by linkere Nebraskans2237 2008-08-21 20:51|| 2008-08-21 20:51|| Front Page Top

#36 Hey OS...I have been on the Blue Ridge and Coronado. The JOC on the Blue Ridge is so cold you need arctic gear to survive.

Agree that Mount Whitney is making a statement as the 6th Fleet command ship.

Jorong Barnsmell6594...No Gyrenes to my knowledge. Only on LPH and LHDs

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2008-08-21 21:43|| 2008-08-21 21:43|| Front Page Top

#37 Sorry...I meant Rambler not Jorong Barnsmell6594.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2008-08-21 21:44|| 2008-08-21 21:44|| Front Page Top

#38 It can carry the Marines, but they are not on board. Not to say they couldn't fly in a couple of light Marine rifle companies for "port security" and base them out of that ship.

Heard the "Mercy" is on the way as well, hospital ship.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-21 22:00|| 2008-08-21 22:00|| Front Page Top

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