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2011-02-04 Africa North
'US working on plan for immediate Mubarak departure'
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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-02-04 02:01|| || Front Page|| [6 views ]  Top

#1 From a lot of news I've read it seems as if Mubarak is winning. Why not let him wrap himself in the Egyptian flag and hang on until elections in the Fall. Give the opposition a chance to build up, and give Suleiman a chance to decimate the muslim brotherhood.

Assuming the news isn't wrong that is.
Posted by rjschwarz 2011-02-04 09:40||   2011-02-04 09:40|| Front Page Top

#2 Because nothing says "American promotion of democracy abroad" like supporting a foreign military government run by a hand-picked intelligence officer.

Francisco Franco could not be reached for comment.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-02-04 10:57||   2011-02-04 10:57|| Front Page Top

#3 Good ol' US backed coup d'etat in Egypt. I can just imagine Obama sitting in the Oval Office and sweating bullets thinking he just has to do something to avoid looking like jimmuh carter. But he doesn't know what to do. Ask me whose judgment I trust in a situation like this, Obama or Mubarak, and I gotta tell you, it's Mubarak. He has a little more experience, you know.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-02-04 12:12||   2011-02-04 12:12|| Front Page Top

#4 Its what happens when ya go all in, and lose.

I'd have to agree, I do not think Mubarak gained his position by playing dead for others' benefit. I'm not sure how, from a US diplomatic perspective, or even if there is a solution other than backspin, and being so vocal not sure how effective that would be.
Posted by swksvolFF 2011-02-04 12:35||   2011-02-04 12:35|| Front Page Top

#5 If Hosni splits, the Army can't hold power.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-02-04 12:58||   2011-02-04 12:58|| Front Page Top

#6 Daniel Pipes sums up the situation well from a recent dialogue with the Economist:

Two reasons lead me to assert that the Arab Republic of Egypt will not boast a democratic political system at this time next year.

First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counterintuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility.

Further, elections need to be practiced to be made perfect. Ideally, a country starts electing at the municipal level and moves to the national, it begins with the legislative branch and moves to the executive. Simultaneously, the press needs to acquire full freedoms, political parties should mature, parliament should gain authority at the expense of the executive, and judges should adjudicate between them.

Such a transformation of society cannot take place within months or even years; the historical record shows that it takes decades fully to implement. It is out of the question that an Egypt with minor experience in democracy can put together enough of these components in twelve months to establish a fully democratic order.

Second, whichever scenario one plays out, democracy is not in the offing.

If Hosni Mubarak stays in power, unlikely but possible, he will be more of a tyrant than ever. As shown by his actions in recent days, he will not go quietly.

If the military asserts more directly the power that it has wielded behind the scenes since its coup d'état of 1952, Omar Suleiman, the newly-appointed vice president, would presumably become president. He would make changes to the system, eliminating the most obvious abuses under Mubarak, but not fundamentally offering Egyptians a say in the regime that rules them. Algeria 1992, where a military-backed government repressed Islamists, provides a precedent.

If Islamists come to power, they will foment a revolution along the lines of Iran in 1979, in which their belief in God's sovereignty trumps political participation by the masses. The inherently anti-democratic nature of the Islamist movement must not be obscured by the Islamists' willingness to use elections to reach power. In the prescient words of an American official in 1992, the Islamists forward a program of "one person, one vote, one time."

However looked at – abstractly or specifically – Egyptians are in for a rough ride ahead, without imminent prospect of choosing their leaders.


Heck, the dems and O have the same issues with democracy as Egypt does.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2011-02-04 13:10||   2011-02-04 13:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Is the Obama administration going to fly Mubarak to Isla Contadora in Panama and further help repeat history?

Carter redux.
Posted by OldSpook 2011-02-04 13:18||   2011-02-04 13:18|| Front Page Top

#8 "I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."

Chicago politics is not working on the national level. Neither will Chicago politics work on the international level. The junior Senator from Illinois is not qualified, does not have the mindset, does not have the character in areas where he is not surrounded with 'yes men' and 'yes women' who rubber stamp his every thought and whim.
Posted by Guillibaldo Sheng9999 2011-02-04 13:28||   2011-02-04 13:28|| Front Page Top

#9 rj, you assume the executive branch wants what's best for the United States. I do not believe this is so.
Posted by Hellfish 2011-02-04 14:58||   2011-02-04 14:58|| Front Page Top

#10 "it's Mubarak. He has a little more experience, you know."

FTFY, EU.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2011-02-04 15:17||   2011-02-04 15:17|| Front Page Top

#11 I have an offer.

If Mubarak will resign, we will have Obama and his entire staff resign and immediately fly to Egypt and take over. They can see to providing Egypt with a "democratic" government. We will then immediately hold our own elections for a new executive leader.
Posted by DarthVader 2011-02-04 16:03||   2011-02-04 16:03|| Front Page Top

#12 Sounds good Darth - as long as they get a one-way ticket.
Posted by CrazyFool 2011-02-04 16:12||   2011-02-04 16:12|| Front Page Top

#13 I might be dead wrong here but I don’t see Mubarak resigning. Yes they had 100s of thousand marching in the street, so did we when Bush was in office. The ones demonstrating here DID NOT represent the majority of Americans. The fact that I see pro-Mubarak fighting anti-Mubarak forces in pretty much equal numbers makes me think that his demise is far from certain. I would also point out that the military are the king makers, if they want him gone it would be so. So much cheer-leading from the U.S. press would lead you to believe that Mubarak is about gone, don’t count him out yet.
Posted by Cyber Sarge  2011-02-04 16:45||   2011-02-04 16:45|| Front Page Top

#14 The thing is, no malice is needed from Obama in this situation. Simple incompetence coupled with his narcissism and ignorance can produce deadly results just as well.
Posted by OldSpook 2011-02-04 17:57||   2011-02-04 17:57|| Front Page Top

#15 c.f. Carter, James Earl
Posted by OldSpook 2011-02-04 18:01||   2011-02-04 18:01|| Front Page Top

#16 All you need to know
Even President Obama Is Watching Al Jazeera.
Posted by tipper 2011-02-04 18:40||   2011-02-04 18:40|| Front Page Top

#17 Even President Obama Is Watching Al Jazeera.

The Emir of Qatar (the funding behind al Jazeera) is nuts. He is digging his own grave by giving a lavishly-funded soapbox for all the pan-Arab, pan-Islamic and anti-Western nutjobs out there. It would be ironic if he gets the Najibullah treatment (warning: graphic image) after a successful revolt by the Shiite majority.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-02-04 19:19||   2011-02-04 19:19|| Front Page Top

#18 The thing is, no malice is needed from Obama in this situation. Simple incompetence coupled with his narcissism and ignorance can produce deadly results just as well.

I think he works hard to hide his malice behind a mask of supposed narcissism and incompetence. Ever notice how he never makes any of his little "mistakes" when it comes to banning drilling in the Gulf?
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-02-04 19:23||   2011-02-04 19:23|| Front Page Top

#19 MUBARAK has already said he will leave office as Egypt's President after the formal September elections, ,so hopefully IMO this is about the US helping Mubarak AMAP to initiate key reforms + preserve EGYptian democracy.

Becuz ....

To wit,

* FREEREPUBLIC > MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: WE WANT NO PART IN INTERIM EGYPT GOVT.

* FREEREPUBLIC > IRAN'S KHAMEINI [reiterates]CALLS FOR ISLAMIC REGIME IN EGYPT.

* JPOST > MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: WE ARE AGAINST ZIONISM. [MB peroclaims not to hate Jews but won't commit to the preserving the Arab-Israeli/Sadat-Begin Peace Treaty nor recognize any State of Israel].

Lastly, JPOST > [Merkel] GERMAN LEADER: ISRAEL'S SECURITY IS A GLOBAL ISSUE.

ARTIC = SHIMON PERES argues that ...
> PERVASIVE POVERTY is the current LEADING CAUSE OF THE ME'S PROBLEMS, not Ideology, espec as the ME Region's population has grown from 150Milyuhn to 400Milyuhn.
> DEMOCRACY begins wid ELECTIONS, i.e. electing the right Personages to political power, ELECTING THE WRONG LEADERS can end same.
> PEACE IN ME REQUIRES CHNAGES IN SITUATION, NOT [just] CHANGES IN GOVT(S), PEACE NEEDED BETWEEN NEW REGIMES-GOVTS + ME [ = "the New World"].

PEACE BETWEEN ME, NEW REGIMES-GOVTS + DESIRED OWG-NWO???
>
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-02-04 19:45|| na  2011-02-04 19:45|| Front Page Top

#20 Shep Smith just said 3 minute ago that Suleman (new Egyptian VP) had an assassination attempt. So it looks like somebody doesn't want the military in charge.
Posted by Charles 2011-02-04 19:50||   2011-02-04 19:50|| Front Page Top

#21 Where's Allen Dulles when you need him?
Posted by James Carville/Karl Rove 2011-02-04 23:58||   2011-02-04 23:58|| Front Page Top

23:58 James Carville/Karl Rove
23:39 JosephMendiola
23:27 JosephMendiola
23:26 Rjschwarz
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23:00 trailing wife
22:59 JosephMendiola
22:38 Zhang Fei
22:37 Mike Kozlowski
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22:04 Zhang Fei
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21:59 Zhang Fei
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21:45 Dale
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