Article

2017-03-21 -Land of the Free

U.S. Bans Laptops, Tablets from Cabins on Flights from Middle East

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Posted by Bright Pebbles 2017-03-21 10:08|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top

#1 How long to some bullshit-ridden judge overturns this?

Posted by Crusader 2017-03-21 10:53|| 2017-03-21 10:53|| Front Page Top

#2 If someone's figured out how to make a bomb out of a laptop, then what difference does having it explode in the baggage compartment vs. the cabin make? Or have they quietly deployed those cool 'container things' in the baggage compartment that corral/confine explosive force and prevent the downing of the aircraft? Saw 'em on TV at least 5 years ago...

Posted by Whitch Turkeyneck3879 2017-03-21 11:17|| 2017-03-21 11:17|| Front Page Top

#3 If someone's figured out how to make a bomb out of a laptop, then what difference does having it explode in the baggage compartment vs. the cabin make?

Quite a bit of difference. The threat doesn't necessarily have to be a bomb, either.

Posted by Pappy 2017-03-21 11:40|| 2017-03-21 11:40|| Front Page Top

#4 Would you mind elaborating, Pappy? Always wondered about this...

Posted by Whitch Turkeyneck3879 2017-03-21 12:02|| 2017-03-21 12:02|| Front Page Top

#5 I thought I posted something like this last night

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2017-03-21 12:25|| 2017-03-21 12:25|| Front Page Top

#6 Your posting may have been subject to MOD pruning, BP.

Electronic devices have batteries, WT.
Most often they are 'shielded' by their casing such that the standard scoping devices will not discern multiple compartments within the battery shell. Simple enough to insert a short term power source into a much larger shell leaving room for a binary aerosol nerve agent or biological. The device boots and looks operational upon inspection.

Other hideaways are the airgap in polymer touchscreen displays or bubble membrane keyboards, and semtex molded 'chicklet' keyboards. The external 110->12v power supplies can also be formed from det cord with a brick of C4 substituted for the transformer.

Posted by Skidmark 2017-03-21 13:49|| 2017-03-21 13:49|| Front Page Top

#7 Thanks, Skid. So, what effect does storing such a device in the baggage compartment vs. in the cabin have? Is it perhaps related to baggage compartment being unpressurized or 'sealed off' from the rest of the plane? I wonder if airlines have somehow 'reinforced' the baggage compartments given the evolving threat environment (kinda like what they did to the cockpit doors after 9/11)? Thanks in advance for your patience with my uninformed questions/suppositions.

Posted by Whitch Turkeyneck3879 2017-03-21 14:23|| 2017-03-21 14:23|| Front Page Top

#8 Decompression - right there with ya WT3879. We've had Shoe Bomber, and Underoos Bomber - seems legit.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2017-03-21 14:33|| 2017-03-21 14:33|| Front Page Top

#9 If someone's figured out how to make a bomb out of a laptop,

Ever hear of an arduino or raspberry pi - very small pack-of-cards or smaller sized microcontroller / computer. I have an arduino 'nano' programmable microcontroller the size of an IC. These are built to hook up to things like temprature / altitude senors and can be stuff in an existing working pocket radio or old radio-shack clock.

I'm surprised one hasn't been used yet.

Posted by CrazyFool 2017-03-21 14:55|| 2017-03-21 14:55|| Front Page Top

#10 So, what effect does storing such a device in the baggage compartment vs. in the cabin have?

As you alluded, the baggage area is not pressurized. The cabin area is, and the resultant depressurization from an explosion would have more of an immediate detrimental (and likely a cascading) effect on the aircraft. Now factor in the possibility of two or more of these devices, distributed throughout the aircraft...

The cabin is also essentially a restricted-environment system; susceptible to aerosols. I'd surmise that an aerosol threat would be more likely to be biological in origin, the idea being to spread the contamination outside of the initial target population.

The baggage compartment in flight is also not conducive to aerosol dispersion. Also, considering the flights affected are from overseas, and likely foreign-flag carriers may reduce the effect of a biological or chemical release from the baggage compartment after arrival.

Also left out all this is the possibility of an electronic device that would interfere with avionics and/or other aircraft systems.

My conjecture on the actual reason for the ban. Less comjecture on the effects.

Posted by Pappy 2017-03-21 15:40|| 2017-03-21 15:40|| Front Page Top

#11 Nice, Pappy.
'To aid loading and offloading' bags get packed into containers which are designed for fire containment. The hold also generally has a fire suppression system and by nature or design is oxygen depleted. The overhead bins do not/are not though they can have heat sensors for flight deck alarms.

Posted by Skidmark 2017-03-21 17:06|| 2017-03-21 17:06|| Front Page Top

#12 Consider a pile of laptops.

Posted by KBK 2017-03-21 17:44|| 2017-03-21 17:44|| Front Page Top

#13 I've wondered since 9/11 which played hell with my travel every week for months and months thereafter how hard it would be to weaponize a laptop.

The battery and power supply seemed ready made C4 containers complete with wires and how hard would it be to conceal the blasting cap?

Since it never happened I figured I was missing something and it was too hard but what the hell?

Posted by AlanC 2017-03-21 19:17|| 2017-03-21 19:17|| Front Page Top

#14 Batteries in laptops generally have 3 or 5 cells (individual batteries). Replace one cell with whatever and the laptop still works.

For a while, some airports required you to open a laptop to demonstrate it did have batteries in it.

I have thought for quite a while, that laptops on planes were a major risk. But the number of people travelling with them would make a total ban very inconvenient for many people, which I suspect is the reason for this partial ban.

BTW, Australian airports check maybe a third of passengers for explosive residues.

Posted by phil_b 2017-03-21 19:25|| 2017-03-21 19:25|| Front Page Top

#15 Many laptops also have slide-out optical disks which would be trivially easy to replace with chunk of explosive, yet the laptop would still boot & run otherwise.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2017-03-21 19:35|| 2017-03-21 19:35|| Front Page Top

#16 If I recall correctly, most pressurized aircraft have the baggage compartment pressurized. The hull of modern jets and pressurized turboprops have a round, or oblong cross section that is efficient as a pressure vessel. The baggage compartment can be air conditioned or heated separately from the passenger area. Because of shipping perishables, live animals or other altitude sensitive things, you need pressurization and you will need heat at altitude to prevent freezing.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2017-03-21 19:41|| 2017-03-21 19:41|| Front Page Top

#17 So basically, a few weeks ago we confirmed some actionable intel from AQAP. Interesting timing, that.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2017-03-21 21:26|| 2017-03-21 21:26|| Front Page Top

#18 Yep and AQAP are the ones with that badass bombmaker

Posted by Vernal Theper9301 2017-03-21 21:35|| 2017-03-21 21:35|| Front Page Top

#19 The airports touched by the ban are Queen Alia International in Amman, Jordan; Cairo International in Egypt; Ataturk in Istanbul, Turkey; King Abdulaziz International in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia; King Khalid International in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Kuwait International; Mohammed V International in Casablanca, Morocco; Hamad International in Doha, Qatar; and the Dubai and Abu Dhabi airports in the United Arab Emirates.

No US carriers make direct flights from these airports, so they are unaffected by the ban, which will hit Royal Jordanian, EgyptAir, Turkish Airlines, Saudi Airlines, Kuwait Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Qatar Airways, Emirates and Etihad Airways.

Good to know.

Posted by trailing wife 2017-03-21 23:10|| 2017-03-21 23:10|| Front Page Top

23:10 trailing wife
22:27 Blossom Unains5562
22:12 rammer
21:35 Vernal Theper9301
21:26 Rex Mundi
21:25 trailing wife
20:43 phil_b
20:30 phil_b
20:26 phil_b
20:12 Alaska Paul
20:01 Besoeker
19:50 Alaska Paul
19:41 Alaska Paul
19:38 Anguper Hupomosing9418
19:35 Anguper Hupomosing9418
19:25 phil_b
19:17 AlanC
19:17 g(r)omgoru
18:33 Sock Puppet of Doom
18:00 magpie
17:44 KBK
17:15 Skidmark
17:13 Skidmark
17:06 Skidmark