Article

2017-04-26 China-Japan-Koreas

The EMP Threat From North Korea Is Real, and Terrifying

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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2017-04-26 08:46|| || Front Page|| [10 views ] Top

#1 putting a nuke in a satellite is another step up from putting a live nuke in a missile warhead - and NKOR probably hasn't done the latter yet

on the defense side, while we are close to having missile intercept capacity, once a nuke is in orbit, there is nothing much we can do to protect the stratosphere from a radiation burst - such an event would disable every civilian satellite and probably most of the military ones also

Posted by lord garth 2017-04-26 09:10|| 2017-04-26 09:10|| Front Page Top

#2 For some decades now I've advised all the hospital workers I know to always carry a standard, non-LED flashlight on their person at all times.
I once worked in a hospital where (1) local power failed (2) hospital generator came on (3) 30 seconds later the hospital generator failed. A surgery in the the OR paused while staff frantically looked for flashlights. Some were trapped in darkened stairwells & had to feel their way to the exits.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2017-04-26 11:07|| 2017-04-26 11:07|| Front Page Top

#3 My habit whenever there has been a power failure is to find one of my transistor radios, turn it on & check to see if local stations are still on the air. Also pick up my landline phone (a 1983 Western Electric handset) to check for dial tone. If they're both working, I figure no EMP affecting me (at the moment). If all that goes dead along with the grid, hmmm...

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2017-04-26 11:11|| 2017-04-26 11:11|| Front Page Top

#4 An EMP attack sounds like a superior way to disable a modern nation, maximum damage for minimum effort. A short series of EMP attacks spaced out over a few hours or days would clear out the survivalist's backup devices they have been keeping in Faraday cages.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2017-04-26 11:13|| 2017-04-26 11:13|| Front Page Top

#5 My first move after a blackout is to fire up the generator.

Posted by 3dc 2017-04-26 12:35|| 2017-04-26 12:35|| Front Page Top

#6 An EMP = a nuke attack. The deaths resulting will just take longer. It should be responded to with an ACTUAL 'splodey nuke attack

Posted by Frank G 2017-04-26 12:40|| 2017-04-26 12:40|| Front Page Top

#7 My first move after a blackout is to go to sleep.

Posted by gorb 2017-04-26 13:39|| 2017-04-26 13:39|| Front Page Top

#8 always carry a standard, non-LED flashlight on their person at all times.

Why non-LED, Anguper Hupomosing9418?

Posted by trailing wife 2017-04-26 14:29|| 2017-04-26 14:29|| Front Page Top

#9 The Light Emitting Diode is built of a semi-conductor circuit which will be 'burned' by the EMP burst TW.
Once you let the smoke out they no longer work.

Posted by Skidmark 2017-04-26 15:46|| 2017-04-26 15:46|| Front Page Top

#10 We can't stop a boatload of cocaine.
Why would NK even consider joining two complex unproven technology platforms when they could float it into the LA basin, or San Diego navy yard on a raft driven by prevailing winds?

Posted by Skidmark 2017-04-26 15:49|| 2017-04-26 15:49|| Front Page Top

#11 It would only take two, 10KT bombs, detonated at 250,000' to shut the light out to America for months, if not a couple years. While most folks only have enough food and water to last a few days, the riots and looting would begin within the first week. You don't have to blow America or other western nations up to destroy them. It would come from within. This plays the same for Russia, and it why I always say we don't need thousands of nukes. Just three or four detonated amongst the satellites over Russia and their country is over.

Posted by 49 Pan 2017-04-26 16:06|| 2017-04-26 16:06|| Front Page Top

#12 I've got a dumb question. When the Enola Gay dropped Little Boy over Hiroshima, why did the generated EMP not fry the electronic circuits in the Enola Gay?

Posted by JohnQC 2017-04-26 16:44|| 2017-04-26 16:44|| Front Page Top

#13 Good novel on the subject...One Second After by William R. Forstchen. Highly recommend.

Posted by BrerRabbit 2017-04-26 18:21|| 2017-04-26 18:21|| Front Page Top

#14 I've got a dumb question. When the Enola Gay dropped Little Boy over Hiroshima, why did the generated EMP not fry the electronic circuits in the Enola Gay?

Not a dumb question at all! The electronics at the time were tube based. Modern electronics are transistor based and subject to EMP damage.

Main difference is that tubes anodes, cathodes and grids were large and spaced far enough apart that damages, if any, would have little effect. OTOH, transistors components are closely spaced, in fact are in direct contact with each others and easily damaged. Integrated circuits components are even smaller.

The military knows this and as such use hardened electronics designed specifically to withstand radiation and EMP. That's a major factor why military grade electronic cost so much.

Posted by Seeking cure for ignorance 2017-04-26 18:43|| 2017-04-26 18:43|| Front Page Top

#15 JohnQC,

The quick answer is that tube-era tech is pretty much resistant to EMP. ICs and transistors....no Bueno.

One thing to keep in mind here though - EMP damage is a function of burst strength and altitude. There's a reason nobody's done it for real yet. (Not saying it CAN'T happen, but the threat is somewhat overhyped.) And if it was done, the ICBMs, bombers, and subs won't need the satellites to hit their targets in the DPRK.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2017-04-26 18:45|| 2017-04-26 18:45|| Front Page Top

#16 Sounds like an opportunity to pull out the old Windows XP systems from the garage and sell them on ebay for a car.

Posted by Thereth and Company9872 2017-04-26 18:53|| 2017-04-26 18:53|| Front Page Top

#17 I have a hard time believing any of the EMP hype. Yes, long electric lines will blow a bunch of breakers in substations all over the place, and some electronic systems that are unshielded will reset or much less likely be damaged. But, the energy received is proportional to the antenna surface which is tiny. And computers are mostly shielded inside grounded cases.

Like the northwest blackout it might take a few days to get things started up in the right sequence, but not many people would be injured.

Put those same weapons used for EMP on Seoul or Tokyo and at least a million people would be killed. Much much worse.

Posted by rammer 2017-04-26 19:38|| 2017-04-26 19:38|| Front Page Top

#18 Whee! A Rantburg U masters seminar!

Question: What about a camping lantern with several straight fluorescent bulbs? I have one of those as well as an old fashioned flashlight suitable for hitting someone over the head, if necessary.

Posted by trailing wife 2017-04-26 20:39|| 2017-04-26 20:39|| Front Page Top

#19 Sometimes the deniers are right...ie the CME impacts received almost daily, OUTSIDE the magnetosphere.

Posted by Skidmark 2017-04-26 20:44|| 2017-04-26 20:44|| Front Page Top

#20 The fluorescent bulbs may light themselves given sufficient blast energy. If you take the lantern under a high tension powerline do the bulbs glimmer?

Posted by Skidmark 2017-04-26 20:54|| 2017-04-26 20:54|| Front Page Top

#21 Question: What about a camping lantern with several straight fluorescent bulbs? I have one of those as well as an old fashioned flashlight suitable for hitting someone over the head, if necessary.

If the filaments at the ends of the fluorescent tubes are still intact, they should mostly work fine. The 'mostly' issue is the electronic starter that start the fluorescent tube glowing, will they survive?

The flashlight may or may not work, again it's a filament thing, they are kind of fragile. You can make sure the spare bulb at the base of the flashlight is still good, there should be enough metal to protect it and you can swap it out if needed. Maglite knew what they were doing!

But, the energy received is proportional to the antenna surface which is tiny. And computers are mostly shielded inside grounded cases.

Sure if that's all there is. What most people seems to forget is the connectors; the wires connecting the IC to other devices, the computer wires for power, network, USPes, displays, etc.etc.. And then there's the circuit board traces, all of those makes wonderful antennas!

Computer metal cases are not to protect the computer interior, it's a FCC requirement to keep all those RF the computer generate from getting out. Otherwise we would see mostly all plastic cases. I would not rely on Computer cases to protect the computer from an EMP burst. A nearby lightning burst (which does produce EMP of various strength) is often enough to take out the computer.

Skidmark has it right, keep the smoke in the device and it'll work just fine, once the smoke escape, all bets are off!

Posted by Seeking cure for ignorance 2017-04-26 22:08|| 2017-04-26 22:08|| Front Page Top

#22 I've been in an airplane struck by lightning multiple times on the approach. And am still here to comment. Not a thing for that plane and all of its stuff. And lighting on the surface of the plane half a meter from where I was sitting dumped way more EMP on my cell phone than some nuke in space ever could.

And that phone still works fine.

Just stuff your EMP dreams. It is not a thing. You need to worry more about bad bacteria at Chipotle or your neighbors smoking cigarettes in bed than EMP.

Posted by rammer 2017-04-26 22:52|| 2017-04-26 22:52|| Front Page Top

23:43 Zenobia Floger6220
22:52 rammer
22:08 Seeking cure for ignorance
22:03 newc
21:13 Frank G
20:54 Skidmark
20:51 Skidmark
20:48 Skidmark
20:47 trailing wife
20:44 trailing wife
20:44 Skidmark
20:39 trailing wife
20:37 Skidmark
20:27 trailing wife
20:26 Skidmark
20:24 Skidmark
20:22 Skidmark
20:21 Skidmark
20:18 trailing wife
19:52 rammer
19:38 rammer
19:18 Alaska Paul
18:53 Thereth and Company9872
18:50 Thereth and Company9872