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2003-06-09 Middle East
Zion’s Christian Soldiers: An Uncomfortable Alliance?
This is from a report last night on "60 Minutes" as reported by Bob Simon and is quite timely given the forced evacuation of the Israeli settlements.

Any comments/rebuttals on Simon's report? Not being a fundamentalist or evangelical, I can't analyze the reporting properly. Was it accurate or was it an example of a journalist interviewing the fringe element and then painting a broader picture? You can't help but notice the segments tendency to tie in the Bush administration.

Selected excerpts below, but read the whole dang thing.


What's the number one item on the agenda of the Christian Right? Abortion? School Prayer? No and No. Believe it or not, what's most important to a lot of conservative Christians is the Jewish State. Israel: Its size, its strength, and its survival. Why?

There is the alliance between America and Israel in the war on Islamic terror. But it goes deeper. For Christians who interpret the bible in a literal fashion, Israel has a crucial role to play in bringing on the Second Coming of Christ.

What propels them? Why do they love Israel so much? The return of the Jews to their ancient homeland is seen by Evengelicals as a precondition for the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore, when the Jewish state was created in 1948 they saw it as a sign.

Israel’s conquest of Jerusalem and the West Bank in 1967 also deepened their excitement and heightened their anticipation. And today’s war between Jews and Arabs was also prophesied, they say. They’ve seen it all before – in the pages of the Bible.

Ed McAteer believes that the current situation is the beginning of the final battle. “I believe that we are seeing prophecy unfold so rapidly and dramatically and wonderfully and, without exaggerating, makes me breathless.”

According to the Book of Revelations, the final battle in the history of the future will be fought on an ancient battlefield in northern Israel called Armageddon. It will follow seven years of tribulation during which the earth will be shaken by such disasters that previous human history will seem like a day in the country.

And the Jews? Well, two-thirds of them will have been wiped out by now. But the survivors will accept Jesus at last.

“The Jews die or convert. As a Jew, I can’t feel very comfortable with the affections of somebody who looks forward to that scenario,” says Gershom Gorenberg, who knows that scenario well.

Gorenberg is the author of the “End of Days,” a book about those Christian evangelicals who choose to read the Bible literally. “They don’t love real Jewish people. They love us as characters in their story, in their play, and that’s not who we are, and we never auditioned for that part, and the play is not one that ends up good for us.”
“If you listen to the drama they’re describing, essentially it’s a five-act play in which the Jews disappear in the fourth act.”

But if that makes Gershom Gorenberg feel uncomfortable, these Christians say it’s only because he doesn’t understand how deeply they love him.

“The Jews need conversion,” says Kay Arthur. “They need to know that the Messiah is coming. And the Bible tells us what’s going to happen.”

The Christian fundamentalists believe the only Israelis who are really listening to God are the hard line Jewish settlers who live on the West Bank and Gaza and refuse to move. The Christians trudge up to these settlements as if they were making pilgrimages to holy shrines. That’s because they and the settlers share a core conviction.

But many American Jewish leaders who used to shun support from the Christian Right have changed their minds. Abe Foxman, head of the Anti-Defamation League, accepts their support.

“On this specific issue on this day we come together. And what is the issue? The issue is fighting terrorism,” Foxman says.

That is precisely what the Bush Administration and the Israeli Government have been saying since September 11, that they are allies in the war on terror. But the Christian Fundamentalists go further. They say it is not just an alliance between nations but between religions.

What frightens Alfer is that he hears much of Falwell’s world view reflected in the words of the Bush Administration.

“When we hear expressions like “the evil ones,” this kind of black and white view of good guys, the bad guys,” says Alfer.


But as long as Jews are the good guys in this representation, this is good for the Jews, isn’t it?

“It’s not good for the Jews. It’s not good for the Jews," says Alfer. We have to get God out of this conflict if we’re going to have any chance to survive as a healthy, secure Jewish state."
Posted by ColoradoConservative 2003-06-09 03:17 pm|| || Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 thanks for the clarification on evangelicals versus fundamentalists - i think there are even finer distinctions than that to be made.

Re alfer however - while there are certainly Israelis who want a Jewishness without Judaism, that is not what i think he was getting it - not getting God out of Israel, but getting God OUT OF THE CONFLICT - ie make it less about whether the bible or the Koran is right, and more about how 2 peoples can live together in THIS world. Which is hard enough - but probably made harder by theologizing the conflict.
Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-09 16:22:17||   2003-06-09 16:22:17|| Front Page Top

#2 I think a better rational for why so many Christians support the Jewish state has to do with the fact that the Holy Sites of all religions were difficult or impossible to get to for other religions when the area was controlled by Jordan. Now they are fairly easily accessible.
Posted by Yank 2003-06-09 16:52:04||   2003-06-09 16:52:04|| Front Page Top

#3 Yank - exactly! The Religion of Tolerance™ would close the Christian sites if they could get away with it. Imagine Bethlehem or Jerusalem in Saudi Arabia? I have no love for these Islamic close-minded bigots, and Israel allows us (Christians) to visit and worship our sites along with theirs.
Posted by Frank G  2003-06-09 17:08:49||   2003-06-09 17:08:49|| Front Page Top

#4 I'm an evangelical; most other evangelicals I know support Israel and the Jews because we're commanded to--to support God's people, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with "end times" (which, according to theory, will happen regardless of what we do and not because we push events along).
Posted by Anonymous 2003-06-09 17:54:36||   2003-06-09 17:54:36|| Front Page Top

#5 Some off the Fundememtalist Christian attitudes mentioned here remind me of the one individual, can't remember his name, who is looking in the Dead Sea area for the lost treasures of the Temple because he believes their recovery will hasten the End of Days
Posted by Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire 2003-06-09 19:09:21||   2003-06-09 19:09:21|| Front Page Top

#6 After thinking about it today some more, I was going to come out and post almost exactly what Anonymous said, but now I don't have to! I think that really sums it up for most of us. For most evangelicals (but not all--my church officially doesn't support this position) the Jewish people are still God's people and we're to support and help them.
Posted by lkl 2003-06-09 21:22:06||   2003-06-09 21:22:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Hi ho: I'm from the Charismatic/Pentacostal wing of the evangelicals, the ones the fundamentalists hate with a passion...

Every serious Christian bases personal policies on the contents of the Bible. Howeever, the Bible requires interpretation to understand an ancient text enough to apply to a different time and culture. Basing "policy" on bible prophecy is shakey at best, since there ARE so many equally plausible interpretations of deliberately obscure passages.

However, Here's what, in my neck of Christianty, we consider to be the moneyquote from Genesis 12:1-3, which seems to be rather free of any sort of prophetic imagery:

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Pretty unambiguous. We're being theologically pragmatic here: Everyone should be applying the bible in order to maximize their legitimate interests, financially and security-wise. This verse says that support for Jews and Israel is automatically in the best interest of men and nations, since it guarantees the blessings of God. Similarly, persecution of the Jews (and Israel by extension) is the worst thing you could do for yourself.

Evidence? Compare the nations who are the friends of Israel against the ones who oppose it. I can think of only one of the former: The World Hegemon, the Unites States. There are quite a few in the latter group, and they all, in one way or another, are going to hell in a handbasket.

There are many good pragmatic and ethical reasons for supporting the Jews and Israel. The Charismatics/Pentecostals happen to believe that those spring from God's blessings on them, and that this promise represents a means by which the rest of mankind can also enjoy God's blessings. Support Israel, be blessed. Oppose Israel, and be cursed.

Thus, I am apprehensive about the Roadmap: If it leads to long term damage to Israel, Bush is going to catch shit from God. I'm hoping Bush has a plan that may involve short term losses, but long term benefits to Israel.

Christian anti-semitism can be traced to a belief that the Christian Church replaces the Jews as the object and beneficiary of the promises God made to the Jews. The Charismatic/Pentecostal wing believes that the church is a parallel track to salvation that is open to all, Non-jews and Jews, while the Jewish track is open only to Jews.

I disagree where the author of the article states that the solution lies in pulling God out of the Arab/Israeli conflict: The whole problem is deeply rooted in religion and religious concepts. Bush isn't a Jew or a Muslim, but being seriously religious gives him a leg up on understanding the core issues than Clinton, who was only a play-actor.
Posted by Ptah  2003-06-09 22:15:38|| [www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2003-06-09 22:15:38|| Front Page Top

#8 Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah (obviously) and that the Messiah is the savior for all of mankind. There is a debt of honor that christians owe Jews, to love them, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and to witness for the truth of Jesus. Antagonism between the two has historically been more economic than religious, (the usual crap between ethnic groups) with the exception of the supremecists (white-power and hyper-Talmudists). Because most serious christians love Israel as a guardian of their heritage, they don't understand why American Jews would be largely atheistic and even hostile towards Christianity. They have also, as the article states, been more consistently pro-Israel than many American Jews. Even to the point of not criticizing Israeli policies (even the bad ones) Anti-Israel sentiment from christians, is usually from the liberal (nominal) wing or the ultra-fundo wing. Both of which are viewed with suspicion by the serious crowd. (Read: they don't believe they are christian. Christianity is a matter of a heart relationship with God, NOT a position paper)
Posted by Scott 2003-06-10 00:08:45||   2003-06-10 00:08:45|| Front Page Top

#9 Hey, this is a hot button!
My 2 cents worth is that there are some pretty extreme people within just about every religion, usually with their own personal agenda, which if successful, would result in the extreme people in charge of a new order. My thought is that any of them would make the earth a pretty miserable place (mainly because it would be a reflection of their own warped personality).
Unfortunately, this seems to be the human condition.
Posted by Anonymous Troll 2003-06-10 00:34:26||   2003-06-10 00:34:26|| Front Page Top

#10 Falwell
Farrakahn
Different skunks,same stink.

It is my understanding(yes I am Born Agin)that Christ's primary reason for coming to Earth was to establish a way for non-Jews to have a relationship with God and trough this relationship to partake of God's forgivness and access to heaven.
Posted by raptor  2003-06-10 09:33:36||   2003-06-10 09:33:36|| Front Page Top

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