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2003-11-15 Iraq
About that smoking gun ...
This is a complete transcript of the Weekly Standard article that details US intelligence on the Iraq/al-Qaeda connection.
OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohamed Atta--according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by THE WEEKLY STANDARD.
And there goes the "hyped intelligence" charge in regards to the Iraq/al-Qaeda connection. A lot of this stuff also comes from the early to late 1990s, long before Bush even thought of running for president.
The memo, dated October 27, 2003, was sent from Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith to Senators Pat Roberts and Jay Rockefeller, the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. It was written in response to a request from the committee as part of its investigation into prewar intelligence claims made by the administration. Intelligence reporting included in the 16-page memo comes from a variety of domestic and foreign agencies, including the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Security Agency. Much of the evidence is detailed, conclusive, and corroborated by multiple sources. Some of it is new information obtained in custodial interviews with high-level al Qaeda terrorists and Iraqi officials, and some of it is more than a decade old. The picture that emerges is one of a history of collaboration between two of America’s most determined and dangerous enemies.
Which would seem to annihilate the belief that secular and religious terrorist groups are incapable of collaboration. Why, it’s as outrageous as a right-wing American Republican president being in league with a left-wing British Labour prime minister! Their ideologies are completely incompatible.
According to the memo—which lays out the intelligence in 50 numbered points—Iraq-al Qaeda contacts began in 1990 and continued through mid-March 2003, days before the Iraq War began. Most of the numbered passages contain straight, fact-based intelligence reporting, which in
some cases includes an evaluation of the credibility of the source. This reporting is often followed by commentary and analysis.
Mmm! Yummy!
The relationship began shortly before the first Gulf War. According to reporting in the memo, bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials." At some unspecified point in 1991, according to a CIA analysis, "Iraq sought Sudan’s assistance to establish links to al Qaeda." The outreach went in both directions. According to 1993 CIA reporting cited in the memo, "bin Laden wanted to expand his organization’s capabilities through ties with Iraq."
That would make General Bashir and Turabi the main drivers behind al-Qaeda hooking up with Iraq as well as Iran. Yet another reason to keep Sudan on the terrorist list.
It falls in with this, too, from mid-September...
The primary go-between throughout these early stages was Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi, a leader of the al Qaeda-affiliated National Islamic Front.
Turabi was released from durance vile in October...
Numerous sources have confirmed this. One defector reported that "al-Turabi was instrumental in arranging the Iraqi-al Qaeda relationship. The defector said Iraq sought al Qaeda influence through its connections with Afghanistan, to facilitate the transshipment of proscribed weapons and equipment to Iraq. In return, Iraq provided al Qaeda with training and instructors."
Do "proscribed weapons" include nerve gas? We saw Abu Khabab and Co testing it out on dogs at Darunta camp. The UN bright boys say that it’s only a matter of time till al-Qaeda carries out a chem/bio attack and that may well be what El Shukrijumah and his boss Jdey were sent over to the States for. Interesting that we first started looking for them about the same time that Sammy’s 48 deadline expired, don’t ya think?
One such confirmation came in a postwar interview with one of Saddam Hussein’s henchmen. As the memo details:
4. According to a May 2003 debriefing of a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, Iraqi intelligence established a highly secretive relationship with Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and later with al Qaeda. The first meeting in 1992 between the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) and al Qaeda was brokered by al-Turabi. Former IIS deputy director Faruq Hijazi and senior al Qaeda leader [Ayman al] Zawahiri were at the meeting—the first of several between 1992 and 1995 in Sudan. Additional meetings between Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda were . Members of al Qaeda would sometimes visit Baghdad where they would meet the Iraqi intelligence chief in a safe house. The report claimed that Saddam insisted the relationship with al Qaeda be kept secret. After 9-11, the source said Saddam made a personnel change in the IIS for fear the relationship would come under scrutiny from foreign probes.
Yet another benefit of having nearly collected the entire deck of cards. Hijazi is now in custody and the only Mukhabarat bad boy still at large is Habbush, IIRC.
A decisive moment in the budding relationship came in 1993, when bin Laden faced internal resistance to his cooperation with Saddam.
5. A CIA report from a contact with good access, some of whose reporting has been corroborated, said that certain elements in the "Islamic Army" of bin Laden were against the secular regime of Saddam. Overriding the internal factional strife that was developing, bin Laden came to an "understanding" with Saddam that the Islamic Army would no longer support anti-Saddam activities. According to sensitive reporting released in U.S. court documents during the African Embassy trial, in 1993 bin Laden reached an "understanding" with Saddam under which he (bin Laden) forbade al Qaeda operations to be mounted against the Iraqi leader.
The Islamic Army was an early name for al-Qaeda, though Binny didn’t care much for it and so he stuck with the latter. The mention of differences over whether or not to align with Iraq among the al-Qaeda brass is interesting and could explain why both Zubaydah and Khalid said it never happened to begin with. May be yet another sign of the group’s decentralization that not all the leaders were aware of the full extent of the group’s allies. Or they could just be lying and in need of more giggle juice.
Another facilitator of the relationship during the mid-1990s was Mahmdouh Mahmud Salim (a.k.a. Abu Hajer al-Iraqi). Abu Hajer, now in a New York prison, was described in court proceedings related to the August 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania as bin Laden’s "best friend." According to CIA reporting dating back to the Clinton administration, bin Laden trusted him to serve as a liaison with Saddam’s regime and tasked him with procurement of weapons of mass destruction for al Qaeda. FBI reporting in the memo reveals that Abu Hajer "visited Iraq in early 1995" and "had a good relationship with Iraqi intelligence. Sometime before mid-1995 he went on an al Qaeda mission to discuss unspecified cooperation with the Iraqi government."
Salim got jugged after the Embassy bombings and stabbed a guard in the eye with a knife he made out of a comb. He was reportedly head of al-Qaeda’s WMD division, though I imagine that Abu Khabab has taken on that role these days. Makes sense that he would try to get technical help from the people with the most experience in that field.
Some of the reporting about the relationship throughout the mid-1990s comes from a source who had intimate knowledge of bin Laden and his dealings. This source, according to CIA analysis, offered "the most credible information" on cooperation between bin Laden and Iraq. This source’s reports read almost like a diary. Specific dates of when bin Laden flew to various cities are included, as well as names of individuals he met. The source did not offer information on the substantive talks during the meetings. . . . There are not a great many reports in general on the relationship between bin Laden and Iraq because of the secrecy surrounding it. But when this source with close access provided a "window" into bin Laden’s activities, bin Laden is seen as heavily involved with Iraq (and Iran).
Ties with the Black Hats isn’t going to be surprising anybody, given that Binny himself may well be hanging out at an IRGC military base with Junior these days if he’s still alive. Be interesting to know where else he was racking up frequent flyer miles, though.
Reporting from the early 1990s remains somewhat sketchy, though multiple sources place Hassan al-Turabi and Ayman al Zawahiri, bin Laden’s current No. 2, at the center of the relationship. The reporting gets much more specific in the mid-1990s:
8. Reporting from a well placed source disclosed that bin Laden was receiving training on bomb making from the IIS’s [Iraqi Intelligence Service] principal technical expert on making sophisticated explosives, Brigadier Salim al-Ahmed. Brigadier Salim was observed at bin Laden’s farm in Khartoum in Sept.-Oct. 1995 and again in July 1996, in the company of the Director of Iraqi Intelligence, Mani abd-al-Rashid al-Tikriti.
That "farm" was also al-Qaeda HQ as long as the group was based in Sudan.
9 . . . Bin Laden visited Doha, Qatar (17-19 Jan. 1996), staying at the residence of a member of the Qatari ruling family. He discussed the successful movement of explosives into Saudi Arabia, and operations targeted against U.S. and U.K. interests in Dammam, Dharan, and Khobar, using clandestine al Qaeda cells in Saudi Arabia. Upon his return, bin Laden met with Hijazi and Turabi, among others.
I’m guessing that the Qatari royal in question is our good buddy Abdul Karim al-Thani, who also hosted Zarqawi and Khalid on occasion and poured millions into al-Qaeda’s coffers. My guess would be that he’s another link in the Golden Chain.
And later more reporting, from the same "well placed" source:
10. The Director of Iraqi Intelligence, Mani abd-al-Rashid al-Tikriti, met privately with bin Laden at his farm in Sudan in July 1996. Tikriti used an Iraqi delegation traveling to Khartoum to discuss bilateral cooperation as his "cover" for his own entry into Sudan to meet with bin Laden and Hassan al-Turabi. The Iraqi intelligence chief and two other IIS officers met at bin Laden’s farm and discussed bin Laden’s request for IIS technical assistance in: a) making letter and parcel bombs; b) making bombs which could be placed on aircraft and detonated by changes in barometric pressure; and c) making false passport [sic]. Bin Laden specifically requested that [Brigadier Salim al-Ahmed], Iraqi intelligence’s premier explosives maker—especially skilled in making car bombs—remain with him in Sudan. The Iraqi intelligence chief instructed Salim to remain in Sudan with bin Laden as long as required.
Ali Mohammed said court testimony at the Embassy bombing trials that Binny decided to outsource explosives expertise after the first WTC bombing and that Turabi hooked him up with the Black Hats, Mugniyeh, and Hezbollah. From the looks of things, he didn’t stop there.
The analysis of those events follows:
The time of the visit from the IIS director was a few weeks after the Khobar Towers bombing. The bombing came on the third anniversary of a U.S. [Tomahawk missile] strike on IIS HQ (retaliation for the attempted assassination of former President Bush in Kuwait) for which Iraqi officials explicitly threatened retaliation.
And they did a little outsourcing of their own to do it. That also means that the Saudi cover story was bunk, who’d of thought it?
IN ADDITION TO THE CONTACTS CLUSTERED in the mid-1990s, intelligence reports detail a flurry of activities in early 1998 and again in December 1998. A "former senior Iraqi intelligence officer" reported that "the Iraqi intelligence service station in Pakistan was Baghdad’s point of contact with al Qaeda. He also said bin Laden visited Baghdad in Jan. 1998 and met with Tariq Aziz."
That fits with documents recovered by various newspapers from the old Mukhabarat HQ, including the UK Telegraph.
Since we have Tariq in hand, we've probably asked him about that...
11. According to sensitive reporting, Saddam personally sent Faruq Hijazi, IIS deputy director and later Iraqi ambassador to Turkey, to meet with bin Laden at least twice, first in Sudan and later in Afghanistan in 1999. . . .

14. According to a sensitive reporting [from] a "regular and reliable source," [Ayman al] Zawahiri, a senior al Qaeda operative, visited Baghdad and met with the Iraqi Vice President on 3 February 1998. The goal of the visit was to arrange for coordination between Iraq and bin Laden and establish camps in an-Nasiriyah and Iraqi Kurdistan under the leadership of Abdul Aziz.
I’m guessing that this Jund al-Shams or whatever the prototype for Ansar al-Islam was called. Another possibility would be that it’s Komala Islamiyyah, which hosted one of Ansar’s chemical weapons factories at Khurmal before the war and got hit with US cruise missiles on the first night of the bombing. Abdul Aziz sounds like a Saudi name, though I’m curious as to whether or not he was "Ghost," the name of the top terrorist trainer referenced by the two Iraqi defectors from Salman Pak in October 2001.
That visit came as the Iraqis intensified their defiance of the U.N. inspection regime, known as UNSCOM, created by the cease-fire agreement following the Gulf War. UNSCOM demanded access to Saddam’s presidential palaces that he refused to provide. As the tensions mounted, President Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on February 18, 1998, and prepared the nation for war. He warned of "an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers, and organized international criminals" and said "there is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein."
And loathe as I am to admit it, he had a good point.
The day after this speech, according to documents unearthed in April 2003 in the Iraqi Intelligence headquarters by journalists Mitch Potter and Inigo Gilmore, Hussein’s intelligence service wrote a memo detailing coming meetings with a bin Laden representative traveling to Baghdad. Each reference to bin Laden had been covered by liquid paper that, when revealed, exposed a plan to increase cooperation between Iraq and al Qaeda. According to that memo, the IIS agreed to pay for "all the travel and hotel costs inside Iraq to gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden." The document set as the goal for the meeting a discussion of "the future of our relationship with him, bin Laden, and to achieve a direct meeting with him." The al Qaeda representative, the document went on to suggest, might provide "a way to maintain contacts with bin Laden."
Yep, it looks like Sammy wanted to be able to outsource al-Qaeda to hit back at the US without him actually having to do so, which fit with Binny’s goals just perfectly.
Four days later, on February 23, 1998, bin Laden issued his now-famous fatwa on the plight of Iraq, published in the Arabic-language daily, al Quds al-Arabi:
"For over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples."
Bin Laden urged his followers to act: "The ruling to kill all Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."
This would be the formal creation of the International Islamic Front, IIRC correctly. CNN has the video up in the "Terror on Tape" section of their website.
Although war was temporarily averted by a last-minute deal brokered by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, tensions soon rose again. The standoff with Iraq came to a head in December 1998, when President Clinton launched Operation Desert Fox, a 70-hour bombing campaign that began on December 16 and ended three days later, on December 19, 1998. According to press reports at the time, Faruq Hijazi, deputy director of Iraqi Intelligence, met with bin Laden in Afghanistan on December 21, 1998, to offer bin Laden safe haven in Iraq. CIA reporting in the memo to the Senate Intelligence Committee seems to confirm this meeting and relates two others.
15. A foreign government service reported that an Iraqi delegation, including at least two Iraqi intelligence officers formerly assigned to the Iraqi Embassy in Pakistan, met in late 1998 with bin Laden in Afghanistan.

16. According to CIA reporting, bin Laden and Zawahiri met with two Iraqi intelligence officers in Afghanistan in Dec. 1998.

17. . . . Iraq sent an intelligence officer to Afghanistan to seek closer ties to bin Laden and the Taliban in late 1998. The source reported that the Iraqi regime was trying to broaden its cooperation with al Qaeda. Iraq was looking to recruit Muslim "elements" to sabotage U.S. and U.K. interests. After a senior Iraqi intelligence officer met with Taliban leader [Mullah] Omar, arrangements were made for a series of meetings between the Iraqi intelligence officer and bin Laden in Pakistan. The source noted Faruq Hijazi was in Afghanistan in late 1998.

18. . . . Faruq Hijazi went to Afghanistan in 1999 along with several other Iraqi officials to meet with bin Laden. The source claimed that Hijazi would have met bin Laden only at Saddam’s explicit direction.
Hijazi’s little trek to Afghanistan is pretty much a matter of public record when it happened ... and was roundly ignored by the press during the run up to war.
An analysis that follows No. 18 provides additional context and an explanation of these reports:
  • Reporting entries #4, #11, #15, #16, #17, and #18, from different sources, corroborate each other and provide confirmation of meetings between al Qaeda operatives and Iraqi intelligence in Afghanistan and Pakistan. None of the reports have information on operational details or the purpose of such meetings. The covert nature of the relationship would indicate strict compartmentation [sic] of operations.

  • Information about connections between al Qaeda and Iraq was so widespread by early 1999 that it made its way into the mainstream press. A January 11, 1999, Newsweek story ran under this headline: "Saddam + Bin Laden?" The story cited an "Arab intelligence source" with knowledge of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. "According to this source, Saddam expected last month’s American and British bombing campaign to go on much longer than it did. The dictator believed that as the attacks continued, indignation would grow in the Muslim world, making his terrorism offensive both harder to trace and more effective. With acts of terror contributing to chaos in the region, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait might feel less inclined to support Washington. Saddam’s long-term strategy, according to several sources, is to bully or cajole Muslim countries into breaking the embargo against Iraq, without waiting for the United Nations to lift if formally."
The utter irresponsibility of the press here is what really gets me, given how many if not all of the same publications that wrote all of this stuff are now telling us that there was never any link between Iraq and al-Qaeda and that the very idea of a connection was "hyped up" by the administration to fool us dumb masses into accepting the war.
INTELLIGENCE REPORTS about the nature of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda from mid-1999 through 2003 are conflicting. One senior Iraqi intelligence officer in U.S. custody, Khalil Ibrahim Abdallah, "said that the last contact between the IIS and al Qaeda was in July 1999. Bin Laden wanted to meet with Saddam, he said. The guidance sent back from Saddam’s office reportedly ordered Iraqi intelligence to refrain from any further contact with bin Laden and al Qaeda. The source opined that Saddam wanted to distance himself from al Qaeda."
Then there is still the issue of Zarqawi in Baghdad, indicating that perhaps Sammy didn’t want to back off quite that much ...
The bulk of reporting on the relationship contradicts this claim. One report states that "in late 1999" al Qaeda set up a training camp in northern Iraq that "was operational as of 1999." Other reports suggest that the Iraqi regime contemplated several offers of safe haven to bin Laden throughout 1999.
The northern Iraq training camp was probably actually the proto-Ansar al-Islam (at Khurmal?), though this was indicate that they were up and running by 1999.
23. . . . Iraqi officials were carefully considering offering safe haven to bin Laden and his closest collaborators in Nov. 1999. The source indicated the idea was put forward by the presumed head of Iraqi intelligence in Islamabad (Khalid Janaby) who in turn was in frequent contact and had good relations with bin Laden.
Some of the most intriguing intelligence concerns an Iraqi named Ahmed Hikmat Shakir:
24. According to sensitive reporting, a Malaysia-based Iraqi national (Shakir) facilitated the arrival of one of the Sept 11 hijackers for an operational meeting in Kuala Lumpur (Jan 2000). Sensitive reporting indicates Shakir’s travel and contacts link him to a worldwide network of terrorists, including al Qaeda. Shakir worked at the Kuala Lumpur airport—a job he claimed to have obtained through an Iraqi embassy employee.
Now that is interesting. Where exactly is Shakir these days, anyway?
One of the men at that al Qaeda operational meeting in the Kuala Lumpur Hotel was Tawfiz al Atash, a top bin Laden lieutenant later identified as the mastermind of the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole.
Yet another one-legged al-Qaeda supremo ...
25. Investigation into the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000 by al Qaeda revealed no specific Iraqi connections but according to the CIA, "fragmentary evidence points to possible Iraqi involvement."

26. During a custodial interview, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi [a senior al Qaeda operative] said he was told by an al Qaeda associate that he was tasked to travel to Iraq (1998) to establish a relationship with Iraqi intelligence to obtain poisons and gases training. After the USS Cole bombing in 2000, two al Qaeda operatives were sent to Iraq for CBW-related [Chemical and Biological Weapons] training beginning in Dec 2000. Iraqi intelligence was "encouraged" after the embassy and USS Cole bombings to provide this training.
Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi was on the top 20 list pre-9/11 (back when Khalid was assumed to be just Oplan Bojinka small fry), so if this is him talking under interrogation it be at least as credible as Zubaydah and Khalid’s.
The analysis of this report follows. CIA maintains that Ibn al-Shaykh’s timeline is consistent with other sensitive reporting indicating that bin Laden asked Iraq in 1998 for advanced weapons, including CBW and "poisons."
There’s a comforting thought. Did he get an answer?
Additional reporting also calls into question the claim that relations between Iraq and al Qaeda cooled after mid-1999:
27. According to sensitive CIA reporting, . . . the Saudi National Guard went on a kingdom-wide state of alert in late Dec 2000 after learning Saddam agreed to assist al Qaeda in attacking U.S./U.K. interests in Saudi Arabia.
And then there is the alleged contact between lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta and an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague. The reporting on those links suggests not one meeting, but as many as four. What’s more, the memo reveals potential financing of Atta’s activities by Iraqi intelligence.
The Czech counterintelligence service reported that the Sept. 11 hijacker [Mohamed] Atta met with the former Iraqi intelligence chief in Prague, [Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir] al Ani, on several occasions.
Al-Ani's in custody, too. I wonder what he's got to say...
During one of these meetings, al Ani ordered the IIS finance officer to issue Atta funds from IIS financial holdings in the Prague office.
And the commentary:
CIA can confirm two Atta visits to Prague—in Dec. 1994 and in June 2000; data surrounding the other two—on 26 Oct 1999 and 9 April 2001—is complicated and sometimes contradictory and CIA and FBI cannot confirm Atta met with the IIS. Czech Interior Minister Stanislav Gross continues to stand by his information.
It’s not just Gross who stands by the information. Five high-ranking members of the Czech government have publicly confirmed meetings between Atta and al Ani. The meeting that has gotten the most press attention—April 9, 2001—is also the most widely disputed. Even some of the most hawkish Bush administration officials are privately skeptical that Atta met al Ani on that occasion. They believe that reports of the alleged meeting, said to have taken place in public, outside the headquarters of the U.S.-financed Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, suggest a level of sloppiness that doesn’t fit the pattern of previous high-level Iraq-al Qaeda contacts. Whether or not that specific meeting occurred, the report by Czech counterintelligence that al Ani ordered the Iraqi Intelligence Service officer to provide IIS funds to Atta might help explain the lead hijacker’s determination to reach Prague, despite significant obstacles, in the spring of 2000. (Note that the report stops short of confirming that the funds were transferred. It claims only that the IIS officer requested the transfer.) Recall that Atta flew to Prague from Germany on May 30, 2000, but was denied entry because he did not have a valid visa. Rather than simply return to Germany and fly directly to the United States, his ultimate destination, Atta took pains to get to Prague. After he was refused entry the first time, he traveled back to Germany, obtained the proper paperwork, and caught a bus back to Prague. He left for the United States the day after arriving in Prague for the second time.
But still no telling whether the money was transferred...
Several reports indicate that the relationship between Saddam and bin Laden continued, even after the September 11 attacks:
31. An Oct. 2002 . . . report said al Qaeda and Iraq reached a secret agreement whereby Iraq would provide safe haven to al Qaeda members and provide them with money and weapons. The agreement reportedly prompted a large number of al Qaeda members to head to Iraq. The report also said that al Qaeda members involved in a fraudulent passport network for al Qaeda had been directed to procure 90 Iraqi and Syrian passports for al Qaeda personnel.
How many of those 90 or so operatives turned out to be "North Africans" who showed up in Europe for Zarqawi’s chemical weapons plots in late 2002 and early 2003? There’s an imminent threat if you want one, IMHO ...
That would be a hell of a time to be doing it, though — just at the time Bush was throwing down the glove at the UN — unless Sammy intended to open a second, proxy front.
The analysis that accompanies that report indicates that the report fits the pattern of Iraq-al Qaeda collaboration: References to procurement of false passports from Iraq and offers of safe haven previously have surfaced in CIA source reporting considered reliable. Intelligence reports to date have maintained that Iraqi support for al Qaeda usually involved providing training, obtaining passports, and offers of refuge. This report adds to that list by including weapons and money. This assistance would make sense in the aftermath of 9-11. Colin Powell, in his February 5, 2003, presentation to the U.N. Security Council, revealed the activities of Abu Musab al Zarqawi. Reporting in the memo expands on Powell’s case and might help explain some of the resistance the U.S. military is currently facing in Iraq.
37. Sensitive reporting indicates senior terrorist planner and close al Qaeda associate al Zarqawi has had an operational alliance with Iraqi officials. As of Oct. 2002, al Zarqawi maintained contacts with the IIS to procure weapons and explosives, including surface-to-air missiles from an IIS officer in Baghdad. According to sensitive reporting, al Zarqawi was setting up sleeper cells in Baghdad to be activated in case of a U.S. occupation of the city, suggesting his operational cooperation with the Iraqis may have deepened in recent months. Such cooperation could include IIS provision of a secure operating bases [sic] and steady access to arms and explosives in preparation for a possible U.S. invasion. Al Zarqawi’s procurements from the Iraqis also could support al Qaeda operations against the U.S. or its allies elsewhere.
We seem to be to dealing with the aftermath of that deal right now. That also jives with press reports of al-Qaeda fighting alongside the Fedayeen during the war.
38. According to sensitive reporting, a contact with good access who does not have an established reporting record: An Iraqi intelligence service officer said that as of mid-March the IIS was providing weapons to al Qaeda members located in northern Iraq, including rocket propelled grenade (RPG)-18 launchers. According to IIS information, northern Iraq-based al Qaeda members believed that the U.S. intended to strike al Qaeda targets during an anticipated assault against Ansar al-Islam positions.
Yeah, that did them a lot of good ...
The memo further reported pre-war intelligence which "claimed that an Iraqi intelligence official, praising Ansar al-Islam, provided it with $100,000 and agreed to continue to give assistance."
That’s interesting, the highest sum I’d seen that the PUK reported from Iraq to Ansar was $35,000
CRITICS OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION have complained that Iraq-al Qaeda connections are a fantasy, trumped up by the warmongers at the White House to fit their preconceived notions about international terror; that links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden have been routinely "exaggerated" for political purposes; that hawks "cherry-picked" bits of intelligence and tendentiously presented these to the American public. Carl Levin, a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, made those points as recently as November 9, in an appearance on "Fox News Sunday." Republicans on the committee, he complained, refuse to look at the administration’s "exaggeration of intelligence." Said Levin: "The question is whether or not they exaggerated intelligence in order to carry out their purpose, which was to make the case for going to war. Did we know, for instance, with certainty that there was any relationship between the Iraqis and the terrorists that were in Afghanistan, bin Laden? The administration said that there’s a connection between those terrorist groups in Afghanistan and Iraq. Was there a basis for that?"
Seems like there was, doesn't it?
There was, as shown in the memo to the committee on which Levin serves. And much of the reporting comes from Clinton-era intelligence. Not that you would know this from Al Gore’s recent public statements. Indeed, the former vice president claims to be privy to new "evidence" that the administration lied. In an August speech at New York University, Gore claimed: "The evidence now shows clearly that Saddam did not want to work with Osama bin Laden at all, much less give him weapons of mass destruction." Really?
Oh, of course. All this mess, and all the corroboration in our links, that's just made up. Really. Never happened...
One of the most interesting things to note about the 16-page memo is that it covers only a fraction of the evidence that will eventually be available to document the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. For one thing, both Saddam and bin Laden were desperate to keep their cooperation secret. (Remember, Iraqi intelligence used liquid paper on an internal intelligence document to conceal bin Laden’s name.) For another, few people in the U.S. government are expressly looking for such links. There is no Iraq-al Qaeda equivalent of the CIA’s 1,400-person Iraq Survey Group currently searching Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. Instead, CIA and FBI officials are methodically reviewing Iraqi intelligence files that survived the three-week war last spring. These documents would cover several miles if laid end-to-end. And they are in Arabic. They include not only connections between bin Laden and Saddam, but also revolting details of the regime’s long history of brutality. It will be a slow process.
They'll also be showing links between Sammy's operation and other Bad Guy networks, with really long fingers reaching into the Paleo terror groups. There will also be other interesting links — wonder what the ties are to ISI, for instance, and who they owned in the Soddy heirarchy. We've already seem glimpses coming out about Kuwait.
So Feith’s memo to the Senate Intelligence Committee is best viewed as sort of a "Cliff’s Notes" version of the relationship. It contains the highlights, but it is far from exhaustive. One example. The memo contains only one paragraph on Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, the Iraqi facilitator who escorted two September 11 hijackers through customs in Kuala Lumpur. U.S. intelligence agencies have extensive reporting on his activities before and after the September 11 hijacking. That they would include only this brief overview suggests the 16-page memo, extensive as it is, just skims the surface of the reporting on Iraq-al Qaeda connections. Other intelligence reports indicate that Shakir whisked not one but two September 11 hijackers—Khalid al Midhar and Nawaq al Hamzi—through the passport and customs process upon their arrival in Kuala Lumpur on January 5, 2000. Shakir then traveled with the hijackers to the Kuala Lumpur Hotel where they met with Ramzi bin al Shibh, one of the masterminds of the September 11 plot. The meeting lasted three days. Shakir returned to work on January 9 and January 10, and never again. Shakir got his airport job through a contact at the Iraqi Embassy. (Iraq routinely used its embassies as staging grounds for its intelligence held in Pakistanoperations; in some cases, more than half of the alleged "diplomats" were intelligence operatives.) The Iraqi embassy, not his employer, controlled Shakir’s schedule. He was detained in Qatar on September 17, 2001. Authorities found in his possession contact information for terrorists involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1998 embassy bombings, the 2000 attack on the USS Cole, and the September 11 hijackings. The CIA had previous reporting that Shakir had received a phone call from the safe house where the 1993 World Trade Center attacks had been plotted. The Qataris released Shakir shortly after his arrest.
That'd be Mr. Minister of Interior again...
On October 21, 2001, he flew to Amman, Jordan, where he was to change planes to a flight to Baghdad. He didn’t make that flight. Shakir was detained in Jordan for three months, where the CIA interrogated him. His interrogators concluded that Shakir had received extensive training in counter-interrogation techniques. Not long after he was detained, according to an official familiar with the intelligence, the Iraqi regime began to "pressure" Jordanian intelligence to release him. At the same time, Amnesty International complained that Shakir was being held without charge. The Jordanians released him on January 28, 2002, at which point he is believed to have fled back to Iraq. Was Shakir an Iraqi agent? Does he provide a connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11? We don’t know. We may someday find out. But there can no longer be any serious argument about whether Saddam Hussein’s Iraq worked with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda to plot against Americans.
That pretty much sums up the whole article in a nutshell.
Posted by Dan Darling 2003-11-15 12:51:43 AM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Umm Dan, this is rather long. We need to respect Fred's bandwidth. If it's more than a screenful or two we should post the highlights and refer people to the link. We don't want to force Fred to knock over another bank :-)
Posted by Steve White  2003-11-15 1:02:41 AM||   2003-11-15 1:02:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#2  You're right, I didn't know that it was going to be this big. Is there any way that I can chop it down now that it's posted?
Posted by Dan Darling  2003-11-15 1:08:35 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 1:08:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Hi Dan and Steve. I'm sure Fred will be along soon to decide how to use this article. It's important work and Dan I'm always glad to see your analysis.

My question would be, are the new travel warnings and embassy closings in Sudan related in any way to this leak? My guess is that things could get uncomfortable for some of the thugs-in-charge there...
Posted by Seafarious  2003-11-15 1:17:16 AM||   2003-11-15 1:17:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 No probs Dan, I get long-winded myself :-)

It is good work and helps to further the issue that the old media wants to ignore -- just how deep was Saddam with al-Q? Too bad the NYT isn't running this down.
Posted by Steve White  2003-11-15 1:22:50 AM||   2003-11-15 1:22:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#5  Hehehe.

You'd be quite surprised to see what some very enterprising FReepers discovered that the NYT was running back on November 5, 1998:

Link.

But then, me and my fellow FReepers always did have too long of an attention span.
Posted by Dan Darling  2003-11-15 1:26:33 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 1:26:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I always pictured the relationship between SH and AQ as being similar to the leaders of various Mafia families...didn't like each other but would have meetings from time to time to discuss territory, "business issues", and in general, keep an eye on each other. There is no way they could avoid interacting...how else could they determine "the price of AK-47's in Peshawar?"
Posted by Seafarious  2003-11-15 1:29:49 AM||   2003-11-15 1:29:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#7  Also like different mafia families, they had a common enemy - the cops.
Posted by Dan Darling  2003-11-15 1:31:55 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 1:31:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Um Fred could you keep this whole article up just a little while longer? Drudge linked to it and has been overloading weekly standard's site. it'd be nice to have a second place to quickly look at it ;). Oh and I'll be waiting for Murat to claim this doesn't mean Al-qaeda was involved in Iraq.
Posted by Val 2003-11-15 1:40:53 AM||   2003-11-15 1:40:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 VAl, Murat won't right on this subject. There's just no way he can spin this one. Dn, you should also mail this to someone like Shawn Hannity or Bill O'Reilly. Or just someone at Fox News. That is, if you haven't already. :)
Posted by Charles  2003-11-15 2:12:20 AM||   2003-11-15 2:12:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I just heard about this article and Rantburg's still the only place I've been able to access it.
Kudos to Fred and Rantburg.
I'm still not fully awake and my brain's not working on full RPM yet, but can someone explain why Bush and Cheney said not just a couple weeks ago that there hasn't been any direct link between Hussein and Al-Queda shown, or Iraq and 9/11, if this analysis is accurate? Anyone?
Without looking at the original document, it seems that they've connected a lot of dots in that regard.
Posted by Baltic Blog 2003-11-15 4:40:30 AM|| [http://balticblog.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 4:40:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 The Administration continues to deny the connection because they don't have the "concrete" proof that the loony left requires. Intelligence sources and interviews don't cut it. And this is a battle that the Administration doesn't need to fight. The American people, overwhelmingly, believe that there is a connection.
Posted by Chuck Simmins  2003-11-15 6:25:58 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org]  2003-11-15 6:25:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 What Chick said. Besides which think about the fact that its still an ongoing investigation/war. We don't want to burn sources and methods, and thereby blind us to their next move.

The administration knows a lot more than we do. And can't tell us, because telling tells the bad guys as well.
Posted by Ben  2003-11-15 7:04:56 AM||   2003-11-15 7:04:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Just in time for the Sunday shows...but where is the demand for an investigation into the LEAK?
Posted by john  2003-11-15 7:58:09 AM||   2003-11-15 7:58:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 I'm glad they proved the link, because it is the truth. I don't get excited because the left is wrong, they are usually wrong.Too many people get excited proving the left wrong.I get excited from the truth. I always believed the right based their decisions on Facts.Lets not Gloat it proves nothing
Posted by Anonymous 2003-11-15 8:40:26 AM||   2003-11-15 8:40:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Don't beat me up on this.

I think one reason the Bush official line isn't so quick to draw the obvious conclusions (that Saddam and Al Queda are cohorts) is thay they didn't have to. They were able to get the war on without going that route. As a bonus they played the UN like a fiddle and watched it self destruct (thank you France). But then the question becomes why is Bush not eager to link Saddam directly to 9/11, 2/26/93, (4/19/95?) or anthrax. I will answer that with another question - would a solid and undeniable link between the two make leaving Saddam in power after the first gulf war render GHWB a better or worse president. Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that it was a realistic goal to get rid of Saddam at the time, I don't think it was. I'm just sayin'.

And it runs deeper than that methinks. 9/11 represents such a colossal failure of more than just intelligence. It was a failure of government in its most fundamental capacity. And the government is not in the business of advertising itself as a fraud and a failure (still capable of fixing itself). So if the problem can be fixed without completely exposing the fraud, its wise to do so.

And on a completely other (controversial) note. If it is true that Saddam was convinced by the Frogs that we were not serious about invasion, or that they held some sway to prevent/postpone it - and - becuase of this Saddam did not take care to destroy completely his intelligence paper-trail (what a decision that must be!) and we wound up with 9 miles of it (or whatever)... do we owe the French some gratitude? Was this a smart intelligence design - or just damn good luck?

Any thoughts?
Posted by Rawsnacks 2003-11-15 9:47:29 AM||   2003-11-15 9:47:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 >>can someone explain why Bush and Cheney said not just a couple weeks ago that there hasn't been any direct link between Hussein and Al-Queda shown, or Iraq and 9/11, if this analysis is accurate? Anyone?>>

This is one of those "master narrative" moments.

The White House and everyone in it, including Colin Powell, has said all along that Saddam and al Qaeda ARE "linked." They've said it over and over and over again; they've said it until they're blue in the face.

Before the war Rumsfeld said the evidence of the link was "bulletproof" and George Tenet publicly agreed.

But it didn't "take." The master narrative (a term used by historians, I believe) was heavily influenced by Democratic Party talking points faxed to an elite liberal press. Remember the moment when the entire planet was talking about how Bush "politicized the intelligence"?

As I understand it, that meme originated with the Democratic Party, who chose "politicized the intelligence" as a talking point.

The Democrats did their job well, and the master narrative became "no evidence" & "no link." Even people sympathetic to the war believed that the President himself had said there was no evidence and no link.

When the White House has used the phrase "no evidence" (I don't think they've **ever** said "no link) they have been referring strictly to the events of 9/11. They have no evidence that Saddam specifically planned and carried out the attacks.

Thus when the President recently said "we have no evidence" this line was endlessly quoted out of context. What he really said was that there was "no question" (I think that was the phrase) that al Qaeda and Saddam were linked, but that they had no evidence that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

What Cheney said, when asked by Tim Russert whether Saddam was involved in 9/11, was, "We don't know."

I feel the White House has badly mismanaged the culture wars surrounding Iraq. For at least a year now the CIA has been calling Nicholas Kristof at the TIMES practically every week with new leaks about Bush-lied-people-died and the-White-House-politicized-the-intelligence, and the White House responded on the Sunday morning talk shows with clipped, articulate Condi Rice formulations like, "The White House has never maintained that Saddam had operational control over the events of 9/11 . . . . "

Fine, I get it, but a statement like that simply does not have the impact of "Bush lied people died." (And, btw, I love Condi Rice. I'm a fan. But she hasn't made the slightest dent in the master narrative.)

Bush is famous for being a good offensive player, but the White House has been playing defense on this forever.

My guess is that the combination of the leaked Democratic memo from the Senate intelligence committee, the NEWSWEEK trash of Cheney (all based on leaks from State & CIA), and the trip to England finally pushed them into going on the offense.

I'm glad they did, but my guess is it's too late. There's a reason why master narratives are called master narratives: they rule. The people who believe there was "no link" and "no evidence" have been living in the no link-no evidence world for a long time now. They aren't going to be moving to my world any time soon, I don't think.
Posted by Catherine 2003-11-15 10:02:06 AM||   2003-11-15 10:02:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Excellent, Catherine, excellent.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2003-11-15 10:38:45 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2003-11-15 10:38:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Re the comment: "I think one reason the Bush official line isn't so quick to draw the obvious conclusions (that Saddam and Al Queda are cohorts) is thay they didn't have to. They were able to get the war on without going that route."

If 9-11 was Saddam's revenge for the Gulf War, then we know what the anthrax letters were, right? That becomes a no-brainer. The threats were his way of saying "Here's what's next, if you call me on this." So, put yourself in Bush's position. Whatcha gonna do in that situation? Are you going to run around, shouting from the rooftops: "It was Saddam kicked our asses on 9/11, and now he's got a razor to our throats! Please bear with me while I figure out a way to get out of this mess." No. What's he's going to do keep the authorship of 9/11 ambiguous, invent a cover story to knock the anthrax off the front pages, and launch into a giant, high-stakes poker game to rid the world of Saddam Hussein without getting us all killed in the process. And that, my friends, is exactly what happened.
Posted by The Hatfill Project 2003-11-15 12:21:18 PM|| [hatfill.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 12:21:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 It looks like you published the entire text of the article at least twice in this post. Was that intentional? Could you please post a single, commentary-free version?

Thanks for posting this while TWS is down.
Posted by Michael Pollard  2003-11-15 1:05:18 PM|| [http://www.learnedhand.com/scrutineer.htm]  2003-11-15 1:05:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#20  You're right and that was completely unintentional.

I'm gonna wait to see what Fred decides to do with this before I post a single version, if at all.
Posted by Dan Darling  2003-11-15 1:08:25 PM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 1:08:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 This is one of the best Rantburg aticles and comments ever. It should be distributed far and wide (Hello, Mr. Hannity, Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Lileks?). I know Instapundit is already linking here.
THIS is what blogging is for. A lot of Lefties are going to be sore at Al Gore for inventing the internet.
Posted by Edog  2003-11-15 1:11:34 PM||   2003-11-15 1:11:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 The Hatfill Project> Are you going to run around, shouting from the rooftops: "It was Saddam kicked our asses on 9/11, and now he's got a razor to our throats! Please bear with me while I figure out a way to get out of this mess."

Yes, that's exactly what you are going to do. When a country attacks you, you attack back shouting from the rooftops that they attacked you first. And then no country in Europe whatsoever would have raised an objection, same way they didn't object when you were going after Afghanistan. America wouldn't have needed to go *begging* for support and additional troops as they have been doing now.

If Bush knew of Iraq orchestrating the 9/11 attack and he intentionally kept the "authorship of 9/11" ambiguous, then he's the most catastrophic (and even traitorous) president that the American people *ever* had, diminshing the USA's popularity (and influence and power and safety) worldwide for nil benefit whatsoever.

Stop changing the excuses and justifications for this war with every passing week.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-15 1:14:01 PM||   2003-11-15 1:14:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Dan,

I've posted a single, comment-free copy of the text based on what you posted here.

http://www.learnedhand.com/alqaedamemo.htm

It looks like Drudge has also provided a copy:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash32.htm
Posted by Michael Pollard  2003-11-15 1:40:17 PM|| []  2003-11-15 1:40:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Aris's comments on The Hatfill Project : "Yes, that's exactly what you are going to do..." Uh, no, Aris. That's not what you are going to do, since it would embolden some of America's enemies into similar attacks on civilians on American soil. Unless you don't care about that...

Aris's comments on the actual article posted, which is a huge blow to the Anti-American protesters out there :



(crickets chirping)
Posted by Edog  2003-11-15 1:53:48 PM||   2003-11-15 1:53:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Stop changing the excuses and justifications for this war with every passing week.

Pay no attention to the constant media reports and you won't see justifications changing "with every passing week".
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-15 2:04:18 PM||   2003-11-15 2:04:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 "That's not what you are going to do, since it would embolden some of America's enemies into similar attacks on civilians on American soil"

Oh, yes, saying that Al Qaeda did it wouldn't embolden America's enemies; saying that Iraq helped them do it, would indeed embolden them.

And we shouldn't have said that Germany invaded Poland, because it might have emboldened them to invade more countries.

Whatever. Do you actually *care* about making sense anymore or do you just open your mouth and shallow the flimsiest justifications you can find, whether they make sense or not?

As for the comment on the actual "article" about the top-secret memorandum the newspaper somehow obtained and which mentions other "well-placed" sources, I've not read it yet in its entirety.

From the bits I *have* read, the most I'll say is that these continuous contacts it refers to as efforts to establish communication lines between Iraq and Bin Laden... don't they prove the very opposite, that if anything Iraq was only a *potential* ally to Bin Laden and a very weak connection to the Al Qaeda network indeed.

E.g. when Iraq is asking Sudan to help it establish links with Al Qaeda member, doesn't that mean that Sudan was a much stronger ally of Al Qaeda than Iraq was?

Nobody's in doubt that Al Qaeda has contacts in every single Arab country there exists. But that's not the issue is it? The issue isn't if Al Qaeda members made contact with Iraqi officials, it's whether the organization was receiving actual assistance from Saddam Hussein's regime.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-15 2:21:42 PM||   2003-11-15 2:21:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Didn't Saddam add an Islamic exhortation on the Iraqi flag (in his own handwriting)in a move widely considered cynical right after the Gulf War? Could this have been a (cosmetic) concession Bin Laden required to justify his cooperation with Iraq?
Posted by C. Fahy  2003-11-15 2:26:06 PM||   2003-11-15 2:26:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 The arrival of the anthrax letters initiated a WMD standoff between the United States and Saddam Hussein. Once you understand that, you understand why we invaded Iraq, why we took such a long time going about it, and why the Bush administration has kept the true rationale for the invasion as fuzzy as possible. It really isn't rocket science, you know.
Posted by The Hatfill Project 2003-11-15 2:40:42 PM|| [hatfill.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 2:40:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 "We have heard in the news, recently, that American officials think that the source of anthrax is probably the US itself. Is this conclusion or information just a tactic to divert the attention of those who were terrorized to hear that Bin Laden is the source of anthrax, and to hear insinuations to other accusations, that many Americans think that they should not persist in harming the people he cares for, because that would push him to a stronger reaction in this way or by other means? Or have they done this to divert attention from the incompetence of American official bodies in the events of September 11, and they find now that they have achieved their goal and consequently, the act and the actors should be buried?!"

Saddam Hussein
Open letter to the peoples of the United States, Western peoples and governments
October 29, 2001
Posted by The Hatfill Project 2003-11-15 2:50:20 PM|| [http://hatfill.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 2:50:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 "From the bits I *have* read, the most I'll say is that these continuous contacts it refers to as efforts to establish communication lines between Iraq and Bin Laden... don't they prove the very opposite, that if anything Iraq was only a *potential* ally to Bin Laden and a very weak connection to the Al Qaeda network indeed."

-Several reports indicate that the relationship between Saddam and bin Laden continued, even after the September 11 attacks:

31. An Oct. 2002 . . . report said al Qaeda and Iraq reached a secret agreement whereby Iraq would provide safe haven to al Qaeda members and provide them with money and weapons. The agreement reportedly prompted a large number of al Qaeda members to head to Iraq. The report also said that al Qaeda members involved in a fraudulent passport network for al Qaeda had been directed to procure 90 Iraqi and Syrian passports for al Qaeda personnel. The analysis that accompanies that report indicates that the report fits the pattern of Iraq-al Qaeda collaboration: References to procurement of false passports from Iraq and offers of safe haven previously have surfaced in CIA source reporting considered reliable. Intelligence reports to date have maintained that Iraqi support for al Qaeda usually involved providing training, obtaining passports, and offers of refuge. This report adds to that list by including weapons and money.
37. Sensitive reporting indicates senior terrorist planner and close al Qaeda associate al Zarqawi has had an operational alliance with Iraqi officials. As of Oct. 2002, al Zarqawi maintained contacts with the IIS to procure weapons and explosives, including surface-to-air missiles from an IIS officer in Baghdad. According to sensitive reporting, al Zarqawi was setting up sleeper cells in Baghdad to be activated in case of a U.S. occupation of the city, suggesting his operational cooperation with the Iraqis may have deepened in recent months. Such cooperation could include IIS provision of a secure operating bases [sic] and steady access to arms and explosives in preparation for a possible U.S. invasion. Al Zarqawi’s procurements from the Iraqis also could support al Qaeda operations against the U.S. or its allies elsewhere. We seem to be dealing with the aftermath of that deal right now. That also jives with press reports of al-Qaeda fighting alongside the Fedayeen during the war.

-yeah, your right, they were never receiving any assistance whatsoever and to this day are not......bwhahaha
Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-15 2:56:09 PM||   2003-11-15 2:56:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Hatfill Project -- not to mention Uday's little letter after 9-11 saying that the "next phase" of the attacks on the US would involve biological weapons.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2003-11-15 3:02:22 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2003-11-15 3:02:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Aris :"...shouldn't have said Germany invaded Poland..." - THIS is your response? THIS is the best you can do? hehehehe. It doesn't even make sense, Aris.
Posted by Edog  2003-11-15 3:18:37 PM||   2003-11-15 3:18:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Edog> *rolls eyes* Grow up. This isn't a pissing contest. And your argument about why you should "hide" Iraq's involvement in 9/11 (if it did occur), yes, it makes about as much sense as the Germany-Poland scenario.

When you have a real reason that justifies a war you state it. You don't use a different reasoning that *doesn't* convince people, and which only makes people from the whole world distrust and dislike your nation. You don't tear apart your allies and cause splinters and internal disputes in every single allied nation.

If you had such a reason and you didn't use it, then you couldn't and shouldn't blame other people one bit if they didn't trust you, if they believed you were lying (or hiding the truth, which amounts to the same thing) about your motivations.

Because if you had such a reason, then these people were *right* to believe the US was deceiving the entire world. They were *right* to say you weren't making sense in your argumentation.

Mind you, I personally don't think the US was lying -- I do think that their reasons in general were what they stated in the general outline at least, the claimed desire to weaken the "terrorist nations" and the so-called "axis of terror".

My own opposition to the war wasn't on the moral, but on the practical level, thinking it was a boneheaded maneuver that wouldn't actually hurt but help the islamofascists. The removal of a minor regional and isolated secular chauvinist with extremely peripheral links to any terrorist -- unlike e.g. the main islamofascist power of Iran, or the Lebanon-occupying, Hezbollah-supporting Syria.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-15 5:01:05 PM||   2003-11-15 5:01:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 The removal of a minor regional and isolated secular chauvinist with extremely peripheral links to any terrorist -- unlike e.g. the main islamofascist power of Iran, or the Lebanon-occupying, Hezbollah-supporting Syria.

Okay Aris... not trying to be cute.. you would support US action against Syria and Iran?
Posted by Shipman 2003-11-15 5:28:30 PM||   2003-11-15 5:28:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 I just posted this comment at Oscar's entry on this topic:


It was some weeks ago that I came across an entry at some weblog mentioning a Weekly Standard piece that argued a connection between Hussein & the Iraqi government and bin Laden & al-Qaeda. I had thought of a possible response that I could have posted at that entry, but I do not recall at what blog that entry is at.

But since this entry is also about this topic - re: the Weekly Standard and the allegations of Saddam/Osama 'links' - I can post those thoughts here.

Out of many publications, the Weekly Standard has hardly any legs to stand on when it comes to allegations of links to bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

A few weeks ago (probably after I came across that aforementioned entry at that blog), I posted a comment at several blogs regarding entries that I had just posted at my own blog. This is one version of that comment that I posted. (As you can see, that blogger re-posted it in an actual entry.) I just did a Google search, and found that your blog was one of those where I posted [a different version of] that comment [it was at this entry...].

In that comment, I point to my blog entry (it is currently the 8th one down the main page, I think) which deals with Wesley Clark, and points out connections between the general, the Clinton administration, and Osama bin Laden terrorists.

In that blog entry, I also link to a comment that I posted awhile back at one of Patrick Ruffini's blog entries. In that comment, I asserted that out of many regimes and countries (including some that we are allied with right now), the Ba'athists of Iraq have had one of the weakest relationships with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. But also, as I indicate at my blog, if you scroll down past the first 10 paragraphs of that comment, you can see evidence of how the Clinton/Gore & Albright administration indirectly worked with Osama bin Laden to finance and support Islamic terrorists (and the neoliberals and the neoconservatives, such as those at the Weekly Standard, staunchly supported these policies). There is a lot more information available on the web - and in other places - about this subject.

These policies helped bin Laden, and they could be one of the reasons why we so far have been unable to find him. Check out the comment that I posted at this entry of Sgt. Hook's from a few weeks ago. That is one idea about where Osama bin Laden may be hiding out right now - I think that that may be one major 'blind spot' in our War on Terrorism.

Posted by Aakash 2003-11-15 5:35:33 PM|| [http://uis.blogspot.com]  2003-11-15 5:35:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 you would support US action against Syria and Iran?

I've said it before that I would have supported either choice more than I supported it against Iraq. Either one would certainly have made more sense to me. Syria supports terrorist groups for certain, occupies Lebanon. Iran is the center of islamofascism in the whole of the Middle-east.

Striking at the secular dictatorship in between, when you can't even be sure that it won't fall to Islamist hands the moment you leave... eh, makes the least sense of all. To me, atleast.

Words about "positioning" yourself for further battles mean nothing when you can't actually *use* said position because you don't have enough troops to both occupy Iraq *and* nation-build *and* expand the front.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-15 6:01:04 PM||   2003-11-15 6:01:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 If you look to see which of the three states' regimes has had the most blood on its hands though, Aris, Saddam's Ba'athists win by a mile. So would I be right conclude that you favour strategic arguments for US wars in the Middle East over humanitarian ones?
Posted by Bulldog  2003-11-15 6:32:50 PM||   2003-11-15 6:32:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Bulldog> It's not that simple. I'd probably think the humanitarian reasons sufficient if I thought that Iraq can actually be made into a peaceful and stable democratic nation under the present conditions. My continuing fear is that it may eventually fall to civil war between Baathist-controlled Sunni regions and Iran-dominated Shia regions.

As it is, the humanitarian aspects are the only reason I was ambivalent about the Iraqi war, as it didn't make *any* sense to me on the strategic aspect.

If the humanitarian reasons had been the ones primarily put forward, I actually think fewer people worldwide would have objected to the attacks there -- like it or not, the justifications used and the reasons publicly expressed *do* matter in the way the public views an issue.

The justifications publicly used also matter in the future outcome. If you are making a vow to ensure democracy and freedom in Iraq, then more people might trust that'll be the result. If you mainly mention "WMDs and terrorists", then for all we know US will eventually accept a friendly dictator, no matter how brutal.

And not that many people worldwide actually feel WMDs on Iraqi hands as a threat to them personally, even if they believed they existed. But they can empathize (or pretend to empathize) with Iraqi suffering.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-15 8:04:32 PM||   2003-11-15 8:04:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 If Bush had come out and said, "We have evidence that Saddam was behind 9/11" and "We have received communications from Saddam that the Anthrax attacks were an indication of what could happen", that would have been very, very bad.

It would have been a WMD attack by a foreign power inside the US.

It would have necessitated a nuclear response.
Posted by Dishman  2003-11-15 8:51:54 PM||   2003-11-15 8:51:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 So does this mean the case isn't closed?

Please, say it ain't so Weekly Standard.

Instaquack and the other gullibles who swallowed the Weekly Standard article which didn't even bother to release the actual memo... even though it was purportedly coming from Feith...

Altogether now:

HACKS!
Posted by manyoso 2003-11-15 9:38:53 PM||   2003-11-15 9:38:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 Iraq makes perfect strategic sense. It makes as much sense as the North Africa campaign made in 1942. It's a battle, not the end of the war.
Posted by RMcLeod  2003-11-15 9:55:41 PM||   2003-11-15 9:55:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Manyoso: I trust we'll hear back from you when the entire memo IS released? This memo is genuine. If it isn't the Weekly Standard no longer exists as one of the most important, and most read, publications in official Washington.

They aren't going to put their necks out for a hoax. And the DoD isn't going to issue a memo like this unless they can back it up.

Liberals bet most of the farm on the "Bush Lied" meme...now comes the payoff and it doesn't look good for those who took that bet.
Posted by RMcLeod  2003-11-15 11:34:00 PM||   2003-11-15 11:34:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Um, Aakash, your narrative about posts is about as interesting as Sen. Bob Graham's diary...
As for the Crinton/Gore Administration and "neoliberals" (What are those? Is that their new name now? Guess "progressive" wasn't working) getting together to support jihadis and OBL, I could agree but when you decide to add "neocons," meaning those RightWingIdealogues (insert Leftist troll term for warmongers here) at the Weekly Standard into that mix, it's clear that your tin foil hat has gotten way too loose.
Posted by Jennie Taliaferro  2003-11-16 2:54:59 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2003-11-16 2:54:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 Aris:"*rolls eyes* grow up.."
Yeah, THAT'S real grown up.
I've never said we should hide Iraq's involvement (if any). Show me where I said that. You can't.
We should do what's in our best inerest, period, whether that includes hiding facts or not hiding facts or anything else.
Posted by Edog  2003-11-16 3:42:44 AM||   2003-11-16 3:42:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 The U.S. is the top gun, and there is always someone out there waiting to challenge us. Some people "say" they would support us invading on 'humanitarian' principles, but you know they wouldn't. Jealous and envious, some people are being anti-American just for the sake of being contrary. Face it, America is the adult, and most of the rest of the world are bratty teenagers.
Posted by Edog  2003-11-16 3:54:15 AM||   2003-11-16 3:54:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 Four days later, on February 23, 1998, bin Laden issued his now-famous fatwa on the plight of Iraq, published in the Arabic-language daily, al Quds al-Arabi: "For over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples." Bin Laden urged his followers to act: "The ruling to kill all Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."
This would be the formal creation of the International Islamic Front, IIRC correctly. CNN has the video up in the "Terror on Tape" section of their website.
Although war was temporarily averted by a last-minute deal brokered by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, tensions soon rose again. The standoff with Iraq came to a head in December 1998, when President Clinton launched Operation Desert Fox, a 70-hour bombing campaign that began on December 16 and ended three days later, on December 19, 1998.


Huh? What war? We're humiliating the Saudis..so they need to kill Americans. Bin Laden says so and the IIRC is created to do so.

Note this comment: "lthough war was temporarily averted by a last-minute deal brokered by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, tensions soon rose again."

What war? Was there a war in 1998? Are they saying that BL's statement was a declaration of war? Something is missing here. Are they saying that the Fatwa was a declaration of war? Soooo. Clinton commenced the Desert fox bombing campaign.....

this is poorly written...I'm confused.
Posted by B 2003-11-16 7:24:15 AM||   2003-11-16 7:24:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 As usual Aris is right and Jennie Taliaferro is one dumb bitch, parroting her right wing masters pablum
Posted by NotMikeMoore 2003-11-18 12:32:46 AM||   2003-11-18 12:32:46 AM|| Front Page Top

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