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2008-10-13 Africa Horn
Obama's Kenya ghosts
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Posted by Steve White 2008-10-13 00:00|| || Front Page|| [63 views ]  Top

#1 None of this will be in the MSM nor will McCain mention it in the debate.
Posted by Mike N. 2008-10-13 01:16||   2008-10-13 01:16|| Front Page Top

#2 It's becoming more and more obvious that the Democratic candidate for the Presidency of the United States is the equivalent of a rabid dog. Someone's going to have to put a stop to him. Unfortunately, everybody's so busy fawning over him they can't see the foam at the lips, or understand what it means. If things get even half as bad as they appear they will, we may experience the first military coup in the history of the United States. The military swears an oath first and foremost to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. If they see this jacka$$ attempting to shred it, they will act, because it's their DUTY to do so. I'd hate to see that day come to the United States, but I'd hate even more to lose many of our most basic freedoms and NO ONE do anything about it.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2008-10-13 04:34||]">[]  2008-10-13 04:34|| Front Page Top

#3 Remember, he wants an armed civilian defense corps the equal of our military.  Why would he want that, do you think?
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 07:18||   2008-10-13 07:18|| Front Page Top

#4 Odinga has a "vision" vor all of Africa. Obama has a "vision" for the world. In the short term, Odinga will use Russian military hardware to help achieve his dreams. Obama will use Soviet ideology to achieve his.
Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-13 07:56||   2008-10-13 07:56|| Front Page Top

#5 OP, I welcome it. And institute term limits before the Army gives it back.
Posted by Hellfish 2008-10-13 08:23||   2008-10-13 08:23|| Front Page Top

#6 In my heart of hearts I cannot believe that this country is on the cusp of committing national political suicide. With a 50/50 country and red versus blue, coastal vs. flyover, right vs. left, common sense vs. nuance, patriotism vs. radical chic, etc. - we may be on the verge of a 2nd civil war. Remember this guy Obama would never be able to even obtain a "classified" clearance much less a TSC or whatever the POTUS is given. I have no idea why we don't make any candidate go through the same vetting our armed forces go through. If he had to go through that he would never make it 1/2 way. The scenario is less Manchurian Candidate and more like 7 Days in May. God Forbid!!
Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back!  2008-10-13 08:58||   2008-10-13 08:58|| Front Page Top

#7 OP, this Friday past, I had a nagging feeling about the same. The public trials and hangings, however (Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Waters, etal), may be worth the price of admission.
Posted by Uncle Phester 2008-10-13 09:02||   2008-10-13 09:02|| Front Page Top

#8 Civilian control of the military goes to the heart of our constitutional system and is drilled into every officer, NCO and enlisted person in uniform.

I do not think our professional military will stage a 'coup', period. In the event of a major disaster or a major attack on the country NORTHCOMM will assist and coordinate with civil authorities.

At a guess they might also step in if there was an overt overthrow of elected government.  And that's not in the cards, folks.  If the worst fears of the right and the libertarians come to pass it will be gradual.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 09:19||   2008-10-13 09:19|| Front Page Top

#9 It's going to be quite abrupt, this November 5.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-10-13 09:27||   2008-10-13 09:27|| Front Page Top

#10 OP, I welcome it. And institute term limits before the Army gives it back.

The kinds of military who would stage a 'coup' aren't the kind to give back power easily. Let's not accelerate the rush to become a banana republic or a strongman dictatorship, 'k?
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 09:26||   2008-10-13 09:26|| Front Page Top

#11 If the worst fears of the right and the libertarians come to pass it will be gradual.

Sure will be, since the "frog in hot water" mode has been the left's strategy for four decades already. A relentless forward drive, but gradual, yet all-encompassing, from the "personal" to the "political"... worked pretty fine, though, of course, this is eroding the host societies to the point they even self-destruct themselves (abortion, lower rates of marriage & birthrate)... politically, this doesn't matter, as the Enlightened Ones political wing has carefully crafted itself a clients system, working fine in a decomposed social body atomized through Diversity (as opposed to ethnically homogenous societies with common History & identity), while the cultural wing churns out leftist automatons by the tens if not hundred of thousands through education & mass-entertainement.
Posted by anonymous5089 2008-10-13 09:29||   2008-10-13 09:29|| Front Page Top

#12 The Obama model would call for the replacement of high level military leaders, both uniformed and DoD civilian, almost immediately. The new cadres of loyal military leaders will ensure both stability and enforcement of the regime's goals at all levels. This action has already been mirrored in law enforcement and the courts in major urban areas throughout the country. When it happens, it should come as no surprise. The deweaponisation of the population should likewise, come as no surprise.
Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-13 09:31||   2008-10-13 09:31|| Front Page Top

#13 The kinds of military who would stage a 'coup' aren't the kind to give back power easily.

Military in Chile saved democracy, and Chile itself. Nationalists in Spain also saved democracy in a fashion, though this may not have been their final goal. Both coups spared their respective country a worse fate - if Chile had gone cuba-like the way it was headed before the generals had this came to an halt, the local Dealer Maximo probably would still be in power, or if he wasn't, the country would be in a far worse shape than today's rather successful country.
Posted by anonymous5089 2008-10-13 09:33||   2008-10-13 09:33|| Front Page Top

#14 Remember, he wants an armed civilian defense corps the equal of our military.

And I predict that you will see open season on these folks just as soon as they commit their first atrocity. I'm convinced you might even see some states secede, starting with Texas. Yep...Civil War II.
Posted by Black Charlie Shunter2952 2008-10-13 09:42||   2008-10-13 09:42|| Front Page Top

#15 In those countries there wasn't a strong prior tradition of constitutional government with balanced powers. They were creating order in what was almost a vacuum of prior precedents for it.

Not so here. A military takeover here would abrogate over 200 years of constitutional government. It is precisely what George Washington is revered for having rejected.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 09:43||   2008-10-13 09:43|| Front Page Top

#16 Nationalists in Spain also saved democracy in a fashion, though this may not have been their final goal

Initially it was. But the "democrats" either failed in their regions and were executed by loyalists (Goded), had accidents (Sanjurjo), were pushed aside by Franco (Queipo de LLano) or had "unfortunate accidents" just after a tense conversation with Franco (Mola).

Posted by JFM">JFM  2008-10-13 09:50||   2008-10-13 09:50|| Front Page Top

#17 Sorry, #15 was a response to anon5089
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 09:50||   2008-10-13 09:50|| Front Page Top

#18 A military takeover here would abrogate over 200 years of constitutional government.

Just for the sake of arguemnt, what if they instead SAVED it? What if "democracy" was used as a weapon against the AMERICAN REPUBLIC, IE the "200 years of constitutional governement" (whihc btw is the single thing I admire the most in the USA, your framework)?
Posted by anonymous5089 2008-10-13 09:53||   2008-10-13 09:53|| Front Page Top

#19 I do not think our professional military will stage a 'coup', period.

I think you're wrong, personally. And if you're not, then it will be up to us.
Posted by Black Charlie Shulet7688 2008-10-13 10:00||   2008-10-13 10:00|| Front Page Top

#20 OldPatriot and al.

Please stop this thread now. Think about it, if you want but after the elections. Every post of this kind aired in the right media is 10,000 votes less for McCain.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2008-10-13 10:27||   2008-10-13 10:27|| Front Page Top

#21 Yup.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 10:39||   2008-10-13 10:39|| Front Page Top

#22 I think some of us are going off the deep end here and shouldn't. If Obama wins, he'll have about 49% of the voters against him from the start and he'll be unable to deliver on his promises without raising everybody's taxes and then losing his majority. It could be a messy two years, but things will correct in 2010.

Aside from that, remember that many of the things the presidential candidates are advocating are beyond their control anyway. You can jabber all you want about new technologies, gas pipelines, offshore drilling, and 100 mpg cars, but that won't make them available next year or the year after.

Finally, all is not doom and gloom. Oil is down, gasoline is down, the dollar is up, and the vast majority of people are paying their mortgages and getting proper health care. The biggest problem right now it panic, so stop doing it.
Posted by Darrell 2008-10-13 10:56||   2008-10-13 10:56|| Front Page Top

#23 This election actually puts the US in peril. I think alot of folks here are pretty simple minded and just hoping for the best. Hussein is a Muslim Manchurian. Go over to Atlas Shrugs today. There is a good piece on Hussein's dealings with Kenya and Odinga, his radical Muzz "relative". The thing is, Hussein will immediately, with the help of Pelosi and Kennedy, et al., begin to implement curbs on our freedom of speech and mount a full-blown effort to subvert the 2nd Amendment rights which are the underpinning of our republican democracy. Within a couple of years, blogs like this, and radio shows like Hannity and Rush may disappear. It will not be the military who saves us. It will be only ourselves. If Hussein is elected, I would guess his tenure would be short. Less than JFK's. Get ready for tumult. Buy ammo. I just received lots of brass in my favorite calibers. Get it now while you can.
Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2008-10-13 11:30||   2008-10-13 11:30|| Front Page Top

#24 IMHO Woozie Elmetmter is a Democrat.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2008-10-13 11:48||   2008-10-13 11:48|| Front Page Top

#25 Is the moon full?
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-10-13 12:02||   2008-10-13 12:02|| Front Page Top

#26 We've seen what happens when the masses of people contact their Congressional representatives and senators to object to something -- it doesn't happen, or at least not as originally intended. We put an end to that horrible illegal aliens bill, and we put a stop to the 20% for ACORN rescue plan. Granted the rescue plan that resulted was no prize, but it was in that key way better than the original. So, should Obama actually win, which is not yet assured despite media crowing, we'll just have to stay on top of Congress to make sure they don't do anything really horribly objectionable, like de-fund the military... until, as Darrel says, 2010.
Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife  2008-10-13 12:05||   2008-10-13 12:05|| Front Page Top

#27 The kinds of military who would stage a 'coup' aren't the kind to give back power easily. Let's not accelerate the rush to become a banana republic or a strongman dictatorship, 'k?


Wouldn't be a 'coup. It would be returning the American government to the people by defending the constitution. -- 'k?
Posted by Hellfish 2008-10-13 12:56||   2008-10-13 12:56|| Front Page Top

#28 You'd better be pretty damned clear in just what ways that would be true and how it would work before I'd support such a move.

The 'domestic' part of 'domestic or foreign' refers to open civil war of the sort we experienced in the 1860s. Unless there was an open and very clear constitutional violation in the way in which someone assumed power, those who take up arms against that goverment are in fact the internal foes -- but even then the military is on very iffy grounds for intervening unless there is secession etc.

And do be aware that if, for instance, TX tries to secede then the military's duty is to prevent that, not to abet it.

Posse comitatus, folks.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 13:22||   2008-10-13 13:22|| Front Page Top

#29 Great... let's have the Army take over. I can't believe some of you people are serious. You'd rather be a Pakistan than have Obama be the president?

What's REALLY going on is that there is a great fear of the unknown (a possible half-black President), that even though Obama is no better or worse than your average Democratic candidate for President, the unbridled rage and fear has been much greater. The REAL justification for the hate is so unujustifiable that there is a great struggle to come up with a halfway justifiable reason to really hate him, and I mean REALLY--he's probably hated by some people over here as much as you'd hate a serial killer.

But don't fool yourself. The real underlying reason for the fear is not rational or justifiable. If it were, people who value freedom like yourselves wouldn't come up with ridiculous suggestions like military coups. C'mon!

The reason is just meaningless hate, as I'm sure I'll get for posting this message.
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 13:24||   2008-10-13 13:24|| Front Page Top

#30 OK, I'm going to disagree with you as well, Todd.   Kindly take the time to read the article that triggered this thread.   Take notes - it will help you refine your assertions.

"No better nor worse" than other Dem candidates?   I can't say that I remember other candidates who have aided and abetted openly murderous rampages on the part of relatives who lost a pretty fair election in another country.

There is rage here, alright. But it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a certain propensity of Obama to encourage thuggery in order to advance his own position and power.

I for one have no desire nor willingness to have the toxic corruption and abuses endemic to Chicago spread to the nation as a whole.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 13:25||   2008-10-13 13:25|| Front Page Top

#31 Wouldn't be a 'coup. It would be returning the American government to the people by defending the constitution. -- 'k?

No, k. The people get the government returned to them November 5. Then they get to lie in the bed they've made for two years. That's what the Constitution says. And if you think some beer hall putsch is the way we change governments, you should return to the country you came from. Because no true American favors the violent overthrow of a properly elected government.

You guys are making Ar!$ look good.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-10-13 13:30||   2008-10-13 13:30|| Front Page Top

#32 It doesn't help when a newspaper investigation finds 30,000 felons illegally registered to vote in FL alone ....
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 13:47||   2008-10-13 13:47|| Front Page Top

#33 lotp, this article deals with a lot of hearsay, unsubstantiated claims including those by Jerome Corsi (who by no means is an unbiased source) and guilt by association--to the extent of claiming Obama is personally responsible for genocide, which is a stretch. Is he promoter of Shariah law or is he a true-believing member of a crazy christian church group? Pick one.

A different version of Raila Odinga can be seen in his wikipedia entry and in numerous other places. But of course, there is no need for any benefit of the doubt. Would any claim against Obama need to be proved before holding him responsible for genocide? Not when you've already made up your mind and are looking... hoping... for a socially acceptable justification. The reason this is not frontpage news is because it is an article devoid of any responsibility of proving anything.
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 13:57||   2008-10-13 13:57|| Front Page Top

#34 man... obama is reminding me of some thing that happened previously in history...

civilian defense corps... hmmm some guys in brown shirts, but i cant place them...

'patriotic' children singing nationalistic hymns to a leader figure who was very charismatic...

promises to nationalize sectors of the economy...

hmmmm, anyone able to help me put my finger on it?
Posted by Abu do you love 2008-10-13 14:06||   2008-10-13 14:06|| Front Page Top

#35 Obama will be Carter writ large with cascading crisises that will make the Iran hostage crisis seem like a minor diplomatic tiff.

Pakistan is already bankrupt and is weeks away from not being able to pay for food imports. Iraq. Iran, Afghanistan and several of the Stans could all go over the edge. Russia, China, India get drawn in.

It looks an awful lot like Europe in the 1930s. All we need to complete the picture is an isolationist and demilitarizing America.
Posted by phil_b 2008-10-13 14:20||   2008-10-13 14:20|| Front Page Top

#36 Todd you may well be right WRT this article. But you stretch the truth when you assert the article claims Obama is personally responsible for genocide. It calls into question his judgement for being closely associated with someone who has credibly been held accountable for atrocities - as it should.

It was Odinga himself who claimed to the BBC to have been in near-daily consultations by phone with Obama.

In addition you duck the issue of Obama's tendency to thuggishness as demonstrated in his earlier elections, his boasts about being from and acting in the tradition of Chicago, his call to 'get in the face' of anyone who wishes to keep his/her voting intentions private, etc.

There's a lot to worry about WRT Obama, in part because he has a very deep habit of covering up his trail. The colors on his campaign website are getting faded from all the scrubbing of false claims they've needed to do lately ....
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 14:30||   2008-10-13 14:30|| Front Page Top

#37 lotp, I have to admit I am not too familiar with the thuggery allegations against him and the "against private vote stuff". Are any of these allegations proven, and if so, are they as big as they are made out to be?

It would be stupid of me to comment without knowing the facts, so I'll comment later.
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 14:41||   2008-10-13 14:41|| Front Page Top

#38 Todd, it's a pattern of incidents which add up to a worrisome whole.

One dimension of it is his repeated use of "the politics of personal destruction" to remove political opponents. Read up on what happened to primary and general election opponents in his first Illinois race and again when he ran for the US Senate. Court-sealed divorce records leaked right before election day etc etc.

Then look at how his supporters have attacked Sarah Palin and her family. The whole practice of personal destruction, as taught by Obama's inspiration / radical community organizer Saul Alinsky, intentionally hurts the candidate's family in order to cause him/her to withdraw from the race or to lose it. Obama made no real attempt to stop the horrific attacks on Palin and her kids, especially the older daughter.

This is just one example of what troubles me deeply about Obama.

Re: the 'in your face', google the quote. He has urged his supporters to demand that people tell them who they will vote for - and if they aren't voting for him, the implication is, to harass and otherwise pressure them until they do.

Straight out of the Chicago machine. Nasty, thuggish intimidation tactics. There's lots of that in his history too.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 15:04||   2008-10-13 15:04|| Front Page Top

#39 lotp,

Everything in google about "in your face" stuff is based on an editorial authored by Michelle Malkin (who is yet another extremely biased source--see practically every editorial she's written). Her editorial takes a phrase and blatantly makes up generalized conclusions from it. I don't see anywhere that he's specifically promted thuggery--saying "in your face" promotes intense campaigning sure, but thuggery? Do we have proof of people getting beaten up or harassed for being Republican--any police complaints? Also, how exactly does this thuggery work when the actual voting process is by secret ballot? It's not like Obama's "thugs" will know that you didn't vote for him.. what's part 2 of the plan? Torching districts where votes against Obama is > 50% etc?

If I recall correctly, Obama has repeatedly said that candidates' families are off limits during the elections. Obama and Biden have been extremely good at really muting their attacks on Palin, and mostly concentrating their fire on McCain.

Are there supporters of Obama that might be going after Palin? Sure, I don't disagree... Is there be a small subset of McCain supporters who would never vote for a black man just because? Sure, but I wouldn't conclude that McCain is racist just because some of is supporters might be. It would be unfair.

It seems like all you have is a series of half-truths and generalizations, or even partisan lies that once grouped together, are fuzzy enough to conclude whatever you want to conclude.

There is enough stuff in the current administration, for example, that a non-republican would term thuggish. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means saying Obama's a saint. I just don't think he's any more "evil" than your average politician.

Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 15:41||   2008-10-13 15:41|| Front Page Top

#40 I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face," he said.

Obama in 9/17 rally in Nevada, reported many places including SFGate, the San Francisco Chronicle's online site.

Obama's call to put families off-limits was weak and belated. It only happened after he took a lot of public heat.

Vandalism of Republican offices has started again. Molotov cocktails thrown at a front yard sign lately. Did Obama cause that? I doubt he ordered it. But he has run a campaign where that is the logical conclusion. He boasts of using Chicago techniques. It's not a smoking gun case - it's a racketeering pattern of behavior.

And one that is there for anyone willing to look at it.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 15:49||   2008-10-13 15:49|| Front Page Top

#41 lotp... again, I missed the part where he said "go beat up and/or harass people". People say "get in their face" all the time. It COULD be interpreted as "be intense;try very hard", but you choose not to.

Again, you go ahead and associate anything negative with Obama. There is no "logical conclusion" here, as you put it. It's just subjective conclusion where something can be interpreted in multiple ways. Again, assigning blame of supporters' actions on the candidates themelves is a slippery slope. He is Not responsible for EVERY political action of perhaps 50% of the nation or over 60 million voters--that's simply unfair. Unless someone is mentally handicapped or under age, they are responsible for their own actions--that's just the law. Similarly, McCain is not responsible for the actions for every person who'd vote for him.

There were plenty of attacks on Obama's wife, and smears trying to portray him as a Muslim. Who's responsible for that? Certainly not McCain, right? McCain waited a while before finally admitting a couple of days ago that personal attacks against Obama--i.e. he's "Arab" or a "terrorist" should not happen. Is that not too little too late?

Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 16:06||   2008-10-13 16:06|| Front Page Top

#42 If I recall correctly, Obama has repeatedly said that candidates' families are off limits during the elections. Obama and Biden have been extremely good at really muting their attacks on Palin, ....

Are there supporters of Obama that might be going after Palin? Sure, I don't disagree...

You must have been out of the country when the Palin announcement happened. Shortly after, his flying monkeys went on a insulting smear spreading rampage. Bambi didnt say anything until the end of the 3 day weekend. (Before the start of the next news cycle)
Posted by Mike N. 2008-10-13 16:10||   2008-10-13 16:10|| Front Page Top

#43 And Bambi didn't say anything against Palin did he?

An one can conclude, if one chose to do so, that McCain only decided to take a stance on personal attacks against Obama (a couple days ago), after he learned that it wasn't helping his polling numbers and he needed a new strategy. I'm sure he's still a great guy tho...
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 16:14||   2008-10-13 16:14|| Front Page Top

#44 'He did it too' is poor defense of your position.
Posted by Mike N. 2008-10-13 16:16||   2008-10-13 16:16|| Front Page Top

#45 Mike N.,

You are correct. That is no justification, which is why I have mostly refrained from bringing up McCain.

My whole point tho, is that Obama is "just as bad" as your usual politician, but has recieved even more "rage" than the average presidential candidate, which implies that there is another, more basic underlying reason for the massive hatred against him, a hatred so potent that some people in this thread are calling for a military takeover if Obama wins.
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 16:19||   2008-10-13 16:19|| Front Page Top

#46 First of all, Todd, let me be clear on this. lotp should have never lowered herself to debate with because you are a RACEBAITER.

You don't say the fear could be the result of racism, you throw out any possibility that it could be a result of policy positions or friendships with traitors and go straight to insisting that it must be his race.

Furthermore, you've obviously not been paying attention to this site. These same people say the same things about many other politicians. Barry happens to be the first black uber liberal to run for president since the burg began. The same things were said about Kerry. Is he part black or something? Did I miss a memo?

D) You debate like a defense attorny and that gives me a headache.
Posted by Mike N. 2008-10-13 16:28||   2008-10-13 16:28|| Front Page Top

#47 I don't recall other candidates aggressively using threats of legal action to pre-empt criticism, as the Obama campaign has in multiple states.

I don't recall other candidates getting the word out to flood radio stations with calls in an attempt to silence critics.

If you don't see what this adds up to it's because you don't want to, Todd.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 16:30||   2008-10-13 16:30|| Front Page Top

#48 One last comment just to be on the record.

This candidate has chosen a long history of association with black racists including Farakhan and Wright. He has chosen a long history of association with far left groups hostile to the dominant US culture and willing in some cases to use violence against police, courts, the Pentagon and the Congress.

His wife makes it clear she is not proud of the US and has not been for her entire life.

These are the people Obama spends his time with. They are the people he has surrounded himself with for decades. They are the people who have launched and supported his political rise.

That's not "just as bad". That's a significant difference from other candidates and utterly disqualifies him from the Presidency in my opinion.

Whatever his color happens to be. Capice?
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 16:40||   2008-10-13 16:40|| Front Page Top

#49 there is another, more basic underlying reason for the massive hatred against him, a hatred so potent...yada, yada, yada.

Indeed there is, it is called COMMUNISM!
Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-13 16:42||   2008-10-13 16:42|| Front Page Top

#50 Also while a private person is free to hate his country this is not a quality I would desire for my president. If I were American I would like if only by egoism a president who wants the best for the country not one who hates it and want to bring it down: myself or mychildren could be collateral damage.

Of course, Mr Todd, you are perfectly free to consider that love of his country is an unimportant quality for a POTUS.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2008-10-13 16:50||   2008-10-13 16:50|| Front Page Top

#51 Todd:

Obama's Moslem supporters in the middle east consider him a fellow Moslem.


People aren't "calling" for a military takeover. They are witnessing the demise of democracy if Obama wins because he is a classic Marxist.


Why aren't you commenting on the actual information on this posted news story.


It's easy to recognize you as what we call a "troll," which in this case means that you are here, not to learn or truly participate, but to promote a specific political agenda--the election of Obama.

I suggest you READ, THINK, (if that's possible for you) and visit other important websites that are providing real journalism such as, etc.

You CANNOT silence criticism of your beloved leader by crying "racism." People are seeing through it.

Finally, what ABOUT the "50 prishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of a mob numbering 2,000.

The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about 185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda genocide of a decade earlier. By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.

The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga . . ."

And WHAT ABOUT the fact that Obama was there supporting and campaigning for Odinga, who is not only Obama's cousin, but a fellow Marxist?

What ABOUT IT, Todd?

crickets chirping . . .
Posted by ex-lib 2008-10-13 16:52||   2008-10-13 16:52|| Front Page Top

#52 Todd,

I seriously suggest you go find an essay written by John W. Campbell, Jr. called "Tribesman, Barbarian, and Citizen."

When I first read it way back in the 80's, it didn't have that much of an impact on me. Now that I'm older, I've seen just how true it is. Skin color matters nothing. Skin color is just a false flag, an excuse for people, what truly matters is WHAT people ARE. And what they are isn't defined by coloration.

Full citation:
Analog Science Fact -> Fiction, May 1961, (May 1961, John W. Campbell, Jr., Street & Smith Publications, Inc., $0.50, 180pp, digest, magazine)
Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick  2008-10-13 17:00||   2008-10-13 17:00|| Front Page Top

#53 One of these days the marxists will wake up to what a shitty little religion those of us who aren't devout marxists think it is.
Posted by Tranquil Mechanical Yeti 2008-10-13 17:03||   2008-10-13 17:03|| Front Page Top

#54 OK... It was easier to debate with one of you but I am severely outnumbered here and can't respond to all of you. But rest assured that I CAN respond to everything you've said and most of the responses (except those from lotp) aren't very good. I decided to keep posting until the first bone-headed message that will just take the discussion south, and since that HAS happened (thanks, ex-lib) I will stop.

For the record I am a registered Republican who voted for Bush the first time (not in 2004 tho; didn't vote). I have not decided who I'm voting for yet, but no means is Obama my "messiah". I was trying to make a point, but that's gotten lost and will definitely not recover after post #51.

I will just say... lotp, thanks for taking the time to talk to me. I deeply respect you for treating me fairly and using logic, and not namecalling, to attack my views. In fact I will even apologize for perhaps implying that YOU might in any way be racist.

Oh and the Dow's up 11% today, so McCain might actually have a shot now to distract voters from the economy and onto how Obama is scary :-)

Take care!
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 17:17||   2008-10-13 17:17|| Front Page Top

#55 To all the amateur "Seven Days in May" conspirators on the site today, chill. I spent a great many years in the Air force hauling bombs, rockets and missles to designated targets for Uncle Sam and (on occasion) sitting nuclear alert. I do not know in my wildest imagination when I would have voluntarily turned my weapon system against this country.

Talks cheap and, with the exception of Old Spook, I don't know if anyone on this site has ever been at the pointy end of the spear. Who would I be taking orders from to 'overthrow' the duly elected government of this country. What if the other crewmen I served with saw it differently. Would there be a "Dr. Strangelove" firefight at the base and the 'winner' would then be empowered to join forces with other like minded forces 'for truth justice and the American way'.

What a bunch of crap. I was prepared to drop a nuclear weapon on a target unknown to me until the moment I was ordered to do it. I was prepared to do that based on my confidence and belief in the system of command and control that was inherent in the military I was part of.

Obama may be the disaster I believe he will be. He may do his best to destoy the country I love. He may do the same to the military I cherish but you do not save the Constitution by destroying it.

Also, except for the egomaniacal general or two (think Wes Clark) and some sychophantic followers, the average G.I., from private on up would probably tell them to just pound sand. I know I would have.

Let's stay real here folks.
Posted by Total War 2008-10-13 17:41||   2008-10-13 17:41|| Front Page Top

#56 I'm just amazed anyone can still be undecided.
Posted by Bobby 2008-10-13 17:48||   2008-10-13 17:48|| Front Page Top

#57 Bobby--yep, I guess I'm one of the remaining 5% or so. Plus I'm voting in Missouri. My vote might actually make a difference. Scary, huh?
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 17:54||   2008-10-13 17:54|| Front Page Top

#58 I definitely think Obama is scary. He has surrounded himself with people who fundamentally don't like this country. He is as extreme a leftist as we have ever seen be a major-party candidate for POTUS.

That said, should he win, I believe he will be severely limited in what he would like to do. I am not concerned with the brownshirt armies or gun grabbing. To do those things he would need serious support and while he may get 49%+ to vote for him, there is no way this percentage of the population will support measures like that. The dems in Congress, who have to get reelected every two years, certainly understand this.

Our democratic tradition is strong. We may get a grade-A asshole/marxist in the White House for the next 4 years. But the country is not going to come to an end because of this jackass. It is bigger, stronger and far more enduring than he is. He tries to push too far and it is going to blow up in his face pronto.
Posted by remoteman 2008-10-13 17:56||   2008-10-13 17:56|| Front Page Top

#59 Abulia: Loss or impairment of the ability to make decisions or act independently. A loss of will power.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-13 17:58||   2008-10-13 17:58|| Front Page Top

#60 Besoeker--No, not that. I take my vote seriously. I have until the 4th to decide, and I like to keep my mind open.
Posted by Todd 2008-10-13 18:00||   2008-10-13 18:00|| Front Page Top

#61 Okay Todd, ignoring that bit of racebaiting, are we really to beleive that a 'registered Republican' still isn't certain that he isn't going to vote for an extreme liberal with radical Marxist friends?
Posted by Mike N. 2008-10-13 18:12||   2008-10-13 18:12|| Front Page Top

#62 In fact I will even apologize for perhaps implying that YOU might in any way be racist.

Thank you. Especially since my stepfather is of another race than my mother and I and I work for the most integrated, racially equal organization in the world.
Posted by lotp 2008-10-13 18:19||   2008-10-13 18:19|| Front Page Top

#63 Hmm.
Well, I'm pro-life and Obama is pro-abortion.

I'm for less taxes and he's for more taxes.

I'm for people who earn their money to keep it, and he wants to "spread the wealth around" (him and his cronies being the mediators thereof).

He's for national health care and I believe that always winds up to be slavery with gold chains on the medical profession.

He's in favor of liberal judges interpreting the constitution equally liberally, and I want it to be interpreted literally and with original intent.

Everything he wants requires more government, and I want less government.

He was a lawyer for ACORN engaging in lawfare, and I'm against lawfare and lawyers who engage in it. Not to mention being against ACORN for voter registration fraud.


Nope. All of the above are reasons to vote against a white guy (which I did against Kerry, Gore, and clinton.). He just happens to be black, and I am very aware of my feelings about people, and I do not hold hate against any black people in general.


I am not racist for voting against him and for Palin, er, McCain. I have Reasons that I think are good.
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2008-10-13 18:33||]">[]  2008-10-13 18:33|| Front Page Top

#64  Great... let's have the Army take over. I can't believe some of you people are serious. You'd rather be a Pakistan than have Obama be the president?

Hey Todd, so you equate the most professional military in the history of existence with the Pakistan military? I think I now know your political leanings.
Posted by Hellfish 2008-10-13 18:37||   2008-10-13 18:37|| Front Page Top

#65 And I'm still pulling for the military. The value of the vote has been drastically reduced by gerrymandering, corruption and machine politics. Sooner or later it will go too far.

Or just pass term limits - I'd be happy with that.
Posted by Hellfish 2008-10-13 18:43||   2008-10-13 18:43|| Front Page Top

#66 #59 Abulia: Loss or impairment of the ability to make decisions or act independently. A loss of will power.

#60 Besoeker--No, not that. I take my vote seriously. I have until the 4th to decide, and I like to keep my mind open.

As I suspected :( Abulia aggrevated by chronic denial and ethical dysfunction. You may qualify for an Obama payment, grant or disability pension.
Posted by Besoeker 2008-10-13 19:03||   2008-10-13 19:03|| Front Page Top

#67 Very well said, Total War. I'd venture a guess that 30-40% of posters either are veterans, current military, or parent/child/spouse of one of the above. Of lurkers, I wouldn't dare guess. This is based on absolutely no actual data whatsoever, and is worth what you just paid to read it. ;-)

Registered Republican is not the same as voting Republican. Back when one had to be registered with a party to vote in its primary here in Ohio, Mr. Wife and I registered for opposing parties so that we could affect both... based on all the phone calls that have been aimed at me instead of him, I think I was the one who got the Democratic Party. Functionally, we're both independents. Not to mention that there were a number of Rantburgers proclaiming that if a Conservative didn't get the Republican nomination y'all weren't going to vote.

Bottom line, Todd, it's very simple: do you believe we need to fight and win the war on terror/jihadism/Islamofascism/whatever, lest our children have to go back and fight later for their right not to be enslaved to the Caliphate, or do you think this whole war on terror thing is stupid and counterproductive, and if we'd only just treat those people fairly and listen to their grievances we could bring all the troops home in a trice? If the former you must vote Republican, if the latter, Democrat. All else is commentary. I shan't see you at the polls as we're in different states, but I hope you will find yourself content with your choice.
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2008-10-13 19:30||   2008-10-13 19:30|| Front Page Top

#68 Back to the posted article, the ostensible purpose of this thread. That Mr. Obama is palled around and overtly supported the candidacy of a man such as Mr. Odinga is obscene, but of a piece with closest friendships during adulthood. Once again he either does not know what kind of a man he befriends, or doesn't think such things are important.
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2008-10-13 19:36||   2008-10-13 19:36|| Front Page Top

#69 "if we'd only just treat those people fairly and listen to their grievances"
That's the basic problem with Obama and many Democrats: they just can't wrap their brains around the notion that Islam is not a Judeo-Christian culture preaching "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Posted by Darrell 2008-10-13 19:37||   2008-10-13 19:37|| Front Page Top

#70 I'm still active duty mil, it doesn't matter if the new POTUS is duly elected - if the gov't acts against the U.S. Const or in a tyrannical manner (by the reasonable man theory) - THEN YES, IT IS THE DUTY OF THE CITIZENRY TO OVERTHROW THEM - HENCE, THE WORDS OF JEFFERSON ECHO CLEARLY. Unless the Constitution is changed by constitutional process to fit the new socialist meme then the people reserve the right, nay, the onus to overthrow the govt. The 2nd Amendment wasn't just about protecting people from criminals - it was also in fact to make the gov't fear the people.
Posted by Flitch the Imposter aka Broadhead6 2008-10-13 19:57||   2008-10-13 19:57|| Front Page Top

#71 Will you people get a clue? Look at three things: Obama's "associates", his prior action, and his campaign. This isn't a careful, pragmatic Bill Clinton, this is a full-scale loon being shoved into office by a well-orchestrated and highly fraudulent election process. Bill and Hill started doing some very flaky things during their first two years, and got caught at it. The people raised such a hue and cry that the Republicans took control of Congress in the next election. Bill Clinton was pragmatic enough to pull back and take it easy, with only a few bad decisions that we're still living with. Obama is nothing like Bill Clinton: if confronted, he will push even harder, enact even more unconstitutional executive orders, and dig himself in even deeper. He's a puppet, and the people handling the strings are Ayers and Wright, among others, who WON'T back off. It's going to get ugly - very ugly - very fast. The Left is tired of chipping away - they want it all, and they want it now.

I'll make a prediction that Obama will win, probably by less than 500,000 votes. I'll also bet that more than five MILLION fraudulent votes will be cast in this presidential election. I also will bet that the major contributors to that fraud will never be held accountable as long as there's a Democratic congress OR a Democratic president. Our Republic can only work when it's supported by a moral population. When the amorals like Ayers, Wright, Farrakan, Jackson, Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, and hundreds of others have power, our Republic will be destroyed.

Broadhead6 - Right on, Brother. I'll be there at your back.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2008-10-13 20:53||]">[]  2008-10-13 20:53|| Front Page Top

#72 *sigh*

Let's face it: all this talk of civil war and rebellion is just that, talk. We have no redline that, when crossed, would cause any appreciable fraction of the population and its lower level statesmen to say "Okay, that's ENOUGH! EAT LEAD!" Exactly what fraction of the camel in the tent is too much?

I see nobody asking these questions, and when I DO see someone getting close to asking them, I hear tut-tuts from "moderators", online and off, telling us that such questions are off limits.

I know my redline, but I doubt if any will back me up when I DO punch the Camel's nose.
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2008-10-13 21:18||]">[]  2008-10-13 21:18|| Front Page Top

#72, Word.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-10-13 21:51||   2008-10-13 21:51|| Front Page Top

#74 PTAH, I'll back you up...depending on the capacity I serve in and my active duty status, I'll at the very least stay out of your way to do some punching.

Also, depending on what transpires I would man up and re-sign my commission if that action was needed to better serve my country.
Posted by Flitch the Imposter aka Broadhead6 2008-10-13 23:17||   2008-10-13 23:17|| Front Page Top

23:59 rjschwarz
23:56 rjschwarz
23:48 Barbara Skolaut
23:25 Betty
23:18 ex-lib
23:17 Flitch the Imposter aka Broadhead6
23:06 ex-lib
23:02 Frank G
23:02 trailing wife
22:53 Tranquil Mechanical Yeti
22:49 Frank G
22:47 rjschwarz
22:25 bigjim-ky
22:23 Old Patriot
22:19 JosephMendiola
22:14 JosephMendiola
22:07 JosephMendiola
22:03 g(r)omgoru
22:01 Griting Gonque8968
22:01 g(r)omgoru
21:59 g(r)omgoru
21:59 Whiskey Mike
21:51 g(r)omgoru
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